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Open Thread #890

Happy Friday everyone!

Here is your Open Thread, which is here for you to chat about anything you want, whether it be drama-related or not. Nothing’s off-topic here! Spoilers may be rife, so proceed accordingly.

 
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In recent months, there has been an avalanche of cancel culture, social media outrage against Korean variety stars including three chefs from Culinary Wars and many YouTubers. It has gotten so bad that newspapers are asking the question “why?”

Choi Hang-sub, a sociology professor at Kookmin University, said, "As economic polarization deepens, more people feel marginalized from the mainstream. In the digital world, exposing every flaw of someone's past provides a sense of power and purpose. This pleasure has reached a pathological level, where individuals derive satisfaction from the downfall of others."

Lee Seung-ki, a lawyer at Lee & Law Partners, also expressed deep concern. "Whether we should tolerate people demanding apologies and then ostracizing others if they're not satisfied with the apology is now up to civil society. If it's truly a serious wrongdoing, then it might be justified. However, in the case of Kwaktube, it's not that kind of situation, yet people are making excessive demands," he said. YouTuber Kwak Joon-bin, also known as Kwaktube, had 2 million subscribers, faced significant backlash after he, a self-identified victim of school bullying, defended Lee Na-eun, a former member of the girl group April who herself was accused of bullying another member. This sparked a massive loss of his subscribers, even after he removed the video and issued two apologies.

"Despite issuing two apologies, the relentless attacks aimed at completely ruining an individual are chilling. It seems we've entered an era where people no longer fear destroying others' lives. Our society has become increasingly unforgiving, where even a single mistake can lead to ruin. Perhaps the rise of cyberbullies is largely due to this social atmosphere," Lee said.

Lesson not being learned: the breakdown of civil communication leads to the breakdown of civilization.

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comes down to tieing their lives to social mediaand being in the constant infoflow but people need taught not everything is their business, not everything demands a reaction or interference, they just end up wasting and losing their own time attacking someone instead of getting out their and living their own life. we are dealing with similar issues. I would propose not phone ban but creating certain areas where you cannot access social media sites like Facebook, TikTok, Youtube, X. If the time they spend sucking up that information is lett then maybe there is less outlash

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Go London, I will Go London - it almost feels like I am only going there to use that famous cat sound.

But, soo... the real reason is to meet people I know through a a Tim Burton Fan site no longer functioning, The Tim Burton Collective. Fun times in the beginning of internet, my firstest infatuation. I have not met them for like 16 years though I met a few in Helsinki in 2022 at a film festival

Library:
someone wanted Deka Melon
a patron wanted Eliise to stop sending emails, because she doesnt know that person, it turned out to be the mobile service provider
someone left a tattoo needle in our toilet which brought a lot of questions...
awkward day when both my former classmate who had blocked me, and a coworkers´twice-ex husband ( came to the library... and both borrowed weepy, tearjerking romantic movies while we were accordingly managing the music & film dep.

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NOTES FROM 9TAILEDVIXEN'S 1ST WEEK OF NOVEMBER 2024:

1. U.S. Elections Disaster

In fact, to call it a disaster is an understatement.

I remember the last time the Orange Hitler was in power - there was a massive spike in violence against women worldwide.

And anti-violence against women activists and women's human rights defenders were working flat-out to try to stem the tide and help victims.

Now we have to do it all again for 4 years - more women's and girls' lives blighted or lost, an exponential increase in the workloads of activists, advocates and women's organisations etc.

I am still in the middle of recovering from burnout and mark my words, more of my sister activists and advocates will be suffering from burnout by the time the Marmalade Mussolini's second Reign of Terror is done.

2. This Week in Korean Women's News

Trump re-election sparks interest in South Korea’s '4B' movement among American women

The election of Donald Trump as the next U.S. president has triggered a surge of social media posts and internet search interest in South Korea’s fringe feminist "4B" movement, which calls on women to refrain from dating, having sex with men, having kids and marrying men.

Across TikTok, dozens of American women disappointed by Tuesday’s election results have posted videos stating their intention to participate in their own version of the 4B trend. Over 200,000 people looked up the “4B movement” on Google on Wednesday, making it one of the top trending topics on the online search engine.

The 4B trend, which began in South Korea 2018 in the wake of the #MeToo movement, has become a way for some women to protest misogyny, gender discrimination and violence against women, according to Meera Choi, a Ph.D. candidate in the department of sociology at Yale University who studies heterosexual refusal among South Korean women.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/4b-movement-south-korea-inspires-american-women-trump-reelection-rcna179143

2. Why is North Korea's women's football team so good?

North Korea's women have won another U-20 World Cup. It's their third to date, meaning they join Germany and the United States as the only three-time champions of the tournament. In 2024, North Korea's women have also won the U17 and U19 Asian championships, and in October, their U17 team won their third World Cup.

What is it that makes a state that, according to the United Nations, "does not have any parallel in the contemporary world" so good at youth football?

https://www.dw.com/en/why-is-north-koreas-womens-football-team-so-good/a-70313505

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the 4B news even made it to our portals, which is rare for women rights movements from across the world.

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I have been 4B since BEFORE there was an official 4B movement.

Let's me tell you - life gets more peaceful and productive when you don't have a male partner or spouse in the picture.

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my life is booked full without men or marriage.

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The world as such does not need more people.
And it is definitely possible to have a fulfilling life without children, and even more, without a spouse.
But I also worry:
😭 Imagine the whole next generation grows up as children of trad wives 😭
Some smart, liberal women need to raise some smart liberal children, too 😭 Lots of them, preferably.

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Some smart, liberal women need to raise some smart liberal children, too 😭 Lots of them, preferably.

Not necessarily.

I'm a very smart and progressive woman and I am a teacher outside of my activist work (and my activist work also involves a lot of teaching/educating).

And teachers can have a very strong influence on kids and teens. Believe you me - many children and teens know when their parents are bigoted, racist, misogynistic etc. So they are open to other role models. Never forget that it takes a village to raise a child - and that village isn't limited to just their parents.

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You are right.
Good teachers are the salt of the earth.
I thank you for your service to the kids, and to the world.

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I look at it from this perspective:

I chose to be child-free because I chose to focus on my feminist work. When I started teaching part-time almost 13 years ago, I gradually realised that I will help shape and influence more children and teens than any parent who only has their children to raise.

Technically, this means teachers and educators have a much wider influence on the sort of human beings children may grow up to become.

That is why I raise my eyebrow when people who are parents tell me that I'm somehow deficient because I don't have kids, that I am somehow not a real grown-up because I never made "having children" a milestone of adulthood for myself.

Usually, such sanctimonious parents get real quiet when I point out that my anti-violence against women work is work that will make the world a safer place for their daughters and granddaughters.

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What does the leader and maknae do in kpop groups? Aside from the (often) being the oldest and (literal) youngest. Why do people make such a big thing about those distinctions?

I remember seeing something months ago about when members of some group (I don't remember the group but I *think* it was EXO) had like 3 members leaving or suing the company or something and it was said the leader of the group was upset that it happened without being discussed with him. Why would it need to be discussed with him? What could he do if the company slights group members?

Recently I've been looking at Seventeen stuff, and from I understand, they don't *seem* to have a rigid hierarchy. Maybe it's in part to most of the members being the same ages but they also have a bunch of leaders. They have an official leader and then there is the leader of the subunits. Then there is the "leader"/class president of the variety show. I also think it might be due to changing times.

In the things I've seen of BTS, their leader seemed to take the lead in speaking during interviews especially english speaking interviews. With Seventeen, even though there are fluent english speakers and they do translate on occassion, most of the members speak for themselves or even attempt to communicate first.

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Korea is very rigid on hierarchy, whether in rank or age. Even if a group tries to take it easier (like 2PM) it's never completely forgotten, especially by their Korean fans. So, yes, it's always there.
The leader is looked upon as the oldest brother who should be cunsulted in everything, even if it's only for appearance's sake. He is also in a way held responsible for everybody, so if 3 members of a group suddenly leave without telling him it leaves him in a very bad light exposed to criticism, however unfair.
The maknae is just that. The youngest. Whom everyone can tease and order around with no consequence.

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Kpop groups are not so different of sport teams. The agency employees talk to the leader and it's his responsability to make things happening like learning choreography, be ready on time, etc.

Otherwise, hierarchy is important in Korea society and it kinda dictates the rules to live together : the oldest can choose their room/roommates, sit on the best place in the car, etc but in the same time, they will be the one offering coffee, food, etc to the younger members.

Some Koreans are very strict with formal language. Jackson from GOT7 didn't understand why he needed to talk formally to his leader who was only older by 3 months.

It depends a lot of the personalities of the members.

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Re BTS: RM (the leader) is also the translator for the group because he's the only one with fluent enough English to do interviews with English-language press/media outlets. So he does the interviews by default for that side of things. But generally as their leader/frontman, he is the official rep of BTS and he's the one who comes under the heaviest fire and takes nearly all the hits coming at them.

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(Prefacing my question by saying that I believe that foreign press is a lot more important to groups in 2024 than it was in 2008, so I'm actually asking about the 2008 times, not nowadays)

There's something I have always been curious about. Did companies back then take being fluent in English as a prerequisite for appointing the leader? Or, how much was "foreign press interviews" and "predicting global fame" taken into account when choosing a leader? Or, the leader was not necessarily always the spokesperson?

Taking 2PM which is the only group I know anything about, Taec is the leader, the oldest, and the one fluent in English. How much of that is coincidence?

Imagining a hypothetical scenario, if Wooyoung, who is the fourth in line, was the one most fluent in English, but Taec was the oldest, which one would become the leader/spokesperson? Would Taec still be the leader but take extensive English lessons? Would he be the leader but Wooyoung the spokesperson?

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Taecyeon is the leader of 2PM?! Hmm, I would not have thought that.

Granted, I don't know them much but just based on appearances, I didn't think he was the oldest or the leader.

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Also - what I find interesting is how rigid Korea is on hierarchy. In fact, I read somewhere (I think it's a case study in one of Malcolm Gladwell's books) Korea Air once had a horrific number of plane crashes because the co-pilot was subordinate to the head pilot and even if something was wrong, he could not tell the head pilot because it's a huge no-no for a subordinate to "correct" his senior. It was only when Korea Air was persuaded to ditch such rigid hierarchical rules that their safety record improved.

The other two East Asian Confucian cultures (China and Japan) traditionally have hierarchies as well but in the 21st century it's getting a lot more relaxed. Which explains why Jackson Wang (who is from China) didn't understand why he needed to talk formally to his group's leader who is only 3 months his senior.

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That reminds me of the drunk driving case with the korean celebrity a few months ago (I think it's still in court). The sunbae was drunk driving and when he got caught, he told his hubae to take the fall for him and the hubae was gonna do it until the police pressed him (because what he was claiming didn't make sense with the situation). And the hubae was like "I couldn't say no to Sunbae"

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Happy Friday, Beanies! It was a freaking cold tiring week, so less tracks this time – or, at least, brand new ones. I'll compensate you with additional links and lots of pretty. Next week likely gonna be the same, so bear with me for a while, pls)))

We start from LYN's big appearance at Weibo TV & Internet Video Summit 2024, where he successfully got “Eye-catching Actor of the Year” award - not that flashy, but compared to previous years Promising/Rookie ones that's an upgrade for sure (he's not just showing a potential anymore – he's delivering!). To quote an official introduction, he's “a creator who cannot be bound by a single definition” - don't you love how it sounds?))) And he chose to sing “Hardworking people” again, to my utter delight – I bet composer Li cried some more lol^^ We've seen this turtleneck and coat before, likely on separate occasions, but whatever, they match well. The point was certainly accessories – expensive af neck chains aside, his giant hairclip, aaa! It's been a while, but he loves them and rocks every single one. TV channel that broadcasted the event was nice enough to compile his main performance+acceptance cut+official fancam in one video, bless! Idk why they bother to focus on other attendees mid-song tho – the damn thing lasted over 7 (!) hours, so ofc they had nothing to give other than glassy-eyes “pls let me go home” deadpanness:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_tJ9jX9-rc

MELODY JOURNEY also got “Creative Program of the Year” (yay!), but that seems to be it for all his many nominations. NYZ – the most popular drama character of Q4 of 2023, mind you! - was so robbed, and I'm genuinely surprised none of his OSTs got a spotlight, not even “Old friend” that managed to squeeze into semi-finals via online voting (I thought it'd be “Lifetimes”, honestly, but this was a pleasant shock for a change). That's some gauntlet in the face to our OST King, he'd better make them pay in double for it next year!

Small throwback to previous entries - official link for “Mutual longing”+”To be continued” performance instead of blocked fan upload:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TN0_p0h0_UQ

And Spotify ones for MELODY JOURNEY finale!
“Hardworking people”:
https://open.spotify.com/track/00p0LmSnDtz7d4CAgT7LN7?si=2348141cce114751

“Everytime I”:
https://open.spotify.com/track/0Zu41NcgYnSuK72HBbGIy0?si=68ab0a6eec2342a9

Sadly, that's not enough of music to fill this week, esp after overpacked last one, so more covers! Like this one for “Faith/Believe” - did he just randomly added a cliché kdrama line - “I love you, don't leave!” in Korean - into it? What a polyglot, covering all important lingvo bases, I see))) Yo, boy, if you wanna learn the 3 magic words in even more languages, I can help with that...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3QzqDaah5M

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Speaking of pickup lines and tracks - “Small town girl”. Didn't bother to look up the lyrics, but it sounds so flirty and he's having lots of fun with it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qX7YSdPAv9w

If you're watching TSOPG, you're probably wondering about those scenes of his character playing erhu during his many emo hours... Harsh truth is that Yuning is NOT good at it irl, and that's to put it mildly – he said the crew was rolling with laughter during every single take while he had to keep going with a straight face, poor thing. For those who need a material proof, here's a brilliant fan-edit of him imitating what he called “dying cat noises” over drama footage. You won't be able to ever unhear it, so proceed at your own risk:
https://x.com/liu_yuning08/status/1853573445386395762

Bonus: gorgeous silver suit look for jewelry brand event – he owns this set in a black color too, I recall him wearing it last year during AJTL promo, but lighter metallic brings out a completely another level of pretty, whoa:
https://x.com/Bigsislilred/status/1852686100357378369
https://x.com/Bigsislilred/status/1852708832977498611

Bonus2: and video!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DH_IZqaJKUw

Bonus3: Weibo and its very autumn-themed photoshoot:
https://www.tumblr.com/heymeowmao/766328590882258944/liu-yuning-x-weibo-tv-internet-video-summit-2024

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Bonus 4+5: November boyfriend (isn't he, having two hit dramas in this month in a row?) delivering more autumn-colored pretty for TSOPG promo. Cannot do posing, he said... *rolls eyes*
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s16WT69IGMc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHys5MKwRhA

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Beautiful rendition of Hardworking People.
That song is so in his wheelhouse. Thank you for this posting.

That's a great pieced grey suitcoat. I so wish they'd shown the back of the jacket. Looks great on LYN. Wish I could see the fabric in person!

I'm watching Pearl Girl and enjoying it but gotta say, I'm most going to miss Melody Journey and your weekly commentary. As always, grateful.

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@cliosservant1846 I'm waiting for him to record it, he has to!

Back of the suit must've been seen in some moving clips/interview cuts, I'll look if I can find it.

Already missing the show too, they'd better make season 2 and make it fast!

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LOL! That "dying cat + erhu" edit is hilarious 😂😂😂

I'm really enjoying TSOPearlGirl. It's a wonderful show, imo.

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Trust Yuning to clown himself better than anyone)))

Glad to hear that! I'm enjoying it overall too, but... it clearly focuses more on things I'm not impressed with and back seats the stuff I do like. Probably won't be the show to rave about in my books. But leads are doing marvelous job once again and I'll 100% stick to it if only for them.

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I don't remember the person's name but this week I saw a post about a former idol (her group got disbanded) who is in a drama that's based on a webtoon and has an interactive concept. I think the source material is a harem situation (but I'm not sure) and there were folks criticizing the actress for taking the role. One of the comments said something like "idols are held to a certain standard and if they're allowed to do what they want like international fans want, these are the types of projects they choose". One of my first thoughts was "but she's not even an idol anymore, she's an actress so why is she being judged before the result is even shown?"

Shortly before or after the above topic, I had seen that some country (I don't remember which but it was an Asian country) had some department saying that the song APT by Rosé (I think that's her name) is about western temptation and influence.

Both projects where the brainchild of Asian people and yet western influence is "blamed" for them being made or is a cause for judgement.

The drama news reminded me of how people were critical of Love & Leashes casting because it featured idols/former idols turned actors in such "racy" content.

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Not in my best mood today ... And I think it's because I reacted annoyed to an update yesterday. Someone in my larger family has a bloated ego, and I never react to that, but he posted an AI-written piece yesterday, and I asked him why. He had let AI write a "review" of something he himself had written, and the AI review was very positive. But you know, it's just a machine, so I wondered why he used it. As is its nature, it had generated extremely clichéd language and then even combined it with bad translations into Danish.
He got very offended by my comment. And I really should have just stayed out of it, but now I am having a stupid beef. He even said that "people like [me]" commented based on prejudice, and I couldn't know how the thing he had written was since I hadn't read it. But I hadn't said anything about what he had written himself at all - only about the AI thing. Really!
But I feel so stupid for getting mixed into that at all. Probably I was in a belligerent mood because of my daughter having to write an essay about AI, and her sharing her annoyance with me.
[sigh].

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Goes without saying it's been a very tough week in America. I don't have enough perspective yet to reflect on what just happened and what it means for the future of representative government. But I do have a lot of American history under my belt and I don't like the direction this is going. We are looking at a populist revolution, and possibly a bottoming out of the America economy which could severely impact those who are at least advantage.

So, what to do, what to do. Take a breather. Get your mind engaged, learn something new every day, and demonstrate for your descendants that no matter what, the sun is going to come up tomorrow.

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