What Comes After Love: Episode 5
by Dramaddictally
A standoff, a confession, and a wildly well-done fight scene, our penultimate week fills in all the details we’ve been missing. As our lovelorn leads continue to pine for each other in silence, our heroine makes a final decision about what she wants.
EPISODE 5
We left off last week with our male leads head to head. When we drop back in, Min-jun asks Jungo to step outside the book signing, where they have a lengthy discussion in English. Min-jun asks Jungo to stay away from Hong and reveals that he’s her fiancé.
Jungo says there’s nothing between him and Hong, it’s just that the novel is about her. And then he asks Min-jun to promise to never make Hong feel alone. Min-jun is contemptuous and says that’s an easy one. This seems to strike Jungo right where it’s meant to and he gets red-eyed and excuses himself.
Afterward, we get to hear the contents of the letter that Jungo wrote to Hong the month after she left Japan. He keeps asking himself why he didn’t understand how lonely she was and he regrets leaving her alone. “I used to think that we were together the whole time, but you were by yourself for so long.” This prompts him to begin writing in earnest, and he hopes that by the time he finishes his book, he’ll see her at the end.
Hong doesn’t rush right out and look for Jungo after reading the letter, though. In fact, she avoids him when she realizes he’s signing books at the publishing house where she works. But later, when Jungo is invited to dinner with her colleagues, she decides to attend. It’s his birthday and she buys the cake he always wanted but couldn’t afford when she lived with him in Japan.
At the dinner, one of the employees asks what happened with the woman in the novel. Jungo says he wrote a happy ending, but in real life it didn’t turn out that way. He failed to see she was lonely, so she left for Korea without a word.
In flashback, we see that when Hong got a call from her sister that their dad filed bankruptcy and the family was in dire straits, Hong tried to reach Jungo at his office. He doesn’t pick up and she thinks to herself, “What am I doing here?” Although we’ve seen variations on this theme a few times, here is where she hits the end of her rope and the scene that follows is an epic fight.
Jungo comes home and gives an excuse about why he’s late and never called. A writer at their company passed away that day and it was hectic. Hong argues that it’s no excuse for him not to call and tell her what’s up. And worse, can’t he ever apologize for what he does?
As they continue to argue, Hong says it’s clear he doesn’t care about her anymore. He has no idea what’s going on with her at all, everything is about him. He broke his promise to show up for dinner that night and she’s sick of being the only one who waits.
After keeping his voice steady until this point, Jungo finally lets loose, “This isn’t easy for me either!” He yells that they see each other at home, he’s busy, and he can’t always keep his promises. Why can’t she be more understanding? The moment has immediacy as the camera is positioned directly in front of each actor, so we’re seeing them head on, like we’re the person they’re yelling at.
After Jungo says these final lines, Hong asks quietly, “Are you saying it’s my fault?” And then she starts screaming at the top of her lungs in Korean, finally saying all the things she’s been holding in. Except, Jungo can’t understand. He can only see her contorted face as she belts out, “It’s your fault! You were the one who neglected me and left me alone. How many times do I need to tell you not to leave me by myself? I’m in a foreign country and I’m all alone without you. Why do you leave me by myself and make me feel lonely?!”
She’s sobbing and shaking as she yells all this and by the time she finishes, she’s just letting out cries into the air, like she’s been waiting to express all that poison for a long time. Jungo walks toward her and tries to hug her, but she moves away to cry alone.
Then she switches back to Japanese and starts to tell him that she received some news that day. But instead, she says she thinks they should break up. “I can’t take it anymore. I can’t live like this anymore.” And she walks out.
Both actors are excellent in this scene but Lee Se-young’s dialogue is especially well written and she delivers it amazingly. The fact that she switches to her native language so she can say what she needs to say authentically is just soul crushing. And then how she continues to scream into the air afterward, breathing it out, had me in genuine pain right along with her.
That flashback scene is the story Jungo is telling at the dinner table in the present (or at least some version of it). And Hong asks if Jungo’s failure to understand her loneliness meant that his love changed. Jungo says no, his love has never changed. Hong looks a little startled and then excuses herself from the table to go meet Min-jun.
Min-jun is waiting at a high-end restaurant, where he gives her the news that he’s been accepted into a training program in the US. Does she want to go with him? “You’re all that I need. I promise I’ll never make you feel lonely.” At those words, Hong begins to cry. Min-jun thinks he’s being very touching and moves closer to her and takes her hand.
But Hong pulls her hand away and apologizes, saying she’s just not sure. Min-jun asks if things would be different if he had told her how he felt about her before she went to Japan. Hong responds that even if they were dating, or even married with three kids, before she met Jungo, her heart would still drop whenever she sees him, like it did this time.
She wants Min-jun to know she’s being honest because she truly “likes” him. (In English this doesn’t carry the same weight, but the point is: she’s not saying “love.”) He says he never knew the word “like” could sound so cruel. She apologizes and leaves. And my god this scene was brutal.
Right away, Hong drives to Jungo’s hotel with a bouquet of white roses, thinking about the pain on his face when he saw her at the airport that first day in Korea. She finds him in the hotel bar — with Kanna, which stops her dead in her tracks. Kanna sees Hong and the episode ends with the two staring at each other from across the room.
I really didn’t see that coming at the end. In fact, as Hong comes around the corner and sees Jungo at the bar, I was thinking about how amazing it feels when you reunite with someone you love and the feeling is mutual. And I was getting it all built up in my head just as Kanna comes into the frame. Damn. I was as surprised as Hong. Good job, Show.
Still, we know how Jungo feels (or doesn’t feel) about Kanna, so any misunderstanding could be cleared up if Hong approaches. I really hope we don’t have that kind of tragedy on our hands, where these two miss each other because of something so ridiculous as this. Worse, if they don’t reunite, right after Hong crushed Min-jun, the levels of tragedy will be a bit much for me to survive. On the other hand, if they actually do reunite, I’m not sure I’ll survive all the cuteness of seeing these two beauties back together either. Death by cuteness is definitely preferable, though.
RELATED POSTS
- Premiere Watch: What Comes After Love
- A tearful Lee Se-young in What Comes After Love
- News bites: September 1, 2024
- Sakaguchi Kentaro ponders over What Comes After Love
- What Comes After Love for Lee Se-young and Sakaguchi Kentaro
- News bites: July 18, 2024
- Yearning and cross cultural romance in What Comes After Love
- News bites: January 4, 2024
- News bites: December 5, 2023
- News bites: July 25, 2023
- Lee Se-young
- Hong Jong-hyun
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1 Lostpanda is celebrating My Ajusshi 💔
October 21, 2024 at 4:31 PM
"Both actors are excellent in this scene but Lee Se-young’s dialogue is especially well written and she delivers it amazingly. The fact that she switches to her native language so she can say what she needs to say authentically is just soul crushing"
perfectly stated @dramaddictally
That dialog hit like a white truck.
I was like - wow. Daebok!
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2 westberlin
October 21, 2024 at 4:32 PM
I never knew a fight scene could be my favourite in a love story. But the moment Hong switched to Korean, her language no one around her understands, hit me right in my immigrant soul.
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3 Beverly
October 21, 2024 at 5:12 PM
I am so glad that she called him out on his never apologizing. One of the things that hit me when she switched to Korean is that he never seriously tried to speak her language.
Honestly, I am not sure how I feel about Hong making the first big gesture. I guess we now know that because of his mom. Jungo now seems to be neutral and wait for others to state their wants so he isn't hurt, but that is so unfair. Even the letter was not really much of anything one way or the other.
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Reply1988 -❣️Mother Bean❣️
October 21, 2024 at 7:57 PM
That letter a whole month to plan what to say and it is his preferred form of communication and yet it was just a few lines, I was not impressed at all.
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Mrs Buckwheat
October 21, 2024 at 10:41 PM
It was a pretty sad, lacklustre letter but when you think about how closed off and uncommunicative Juhno has been it was on brand for him. I find the character really hard to warm to even now having his backstory. Some of his issues are just basic human common decency and I'm hanging in here for Kentaro more so than Juhno.
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Mrs Buckwheat
October 21, 2024 at 10:43 PM
*Jungo :)
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RenOIshi
October 22, 2024 at 7:51 AM
Ah yes! That letter could have said so many things that it didn’t!!! I was even hopeful that it would be written in Korean just to show his commitment to her! Alas
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Reply1988 -❣️Mother Bean❣️
October 22, 2024 at 10:34 AM
Wouldn’t that have been sweet. On My name is Gabriel one of the men in the singing group who were with Bogummy for the 72 hour experience wrote him a brief message in Hangul. For a reality tv programme he put in that much thoughtfulness after Bogummy had been conversing with them in English for a few hours per day for 72 hours!
Jungo was with her how many months? She had done all the heavy lifting with the communication and even after he saw how distressed she had to be to go back to her mother tongue he still couldn’t do the work in that month? Maybe back then Google translate was rubbish but I am sure he could have outsourced it to someone to proofread and tidy up the grammar. He really was the poster boy for ‘I can’t be bothered’ 🫤
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4 tabong is ironing the crosswalk
October 21, 2024 at 5:30 PM
The break up scene between Min Jun and Hong completely broke my heart. I hope they can save their friendship after a while. It's obvious how much they care for each other, so I hope they don't lose that.
Tbh, the fight scene with Jungo made me feel more rage than anything else. The way he talks to her...
I'm even wondering if he dated her (and maybe all his previous girlfriends) just as "work" for his writing. Like, it was some evil plan to get inspiration for his book?
First of all, he says that he always thought that they were together, even though he got home when she was sleeping and then had to go back to work. Didn't know anything about her. And ignored her all the time. So, he just wanted to have someone to warm the other side of the bed for him? He just wanted a roommate? He can't be bother to call her and even looks done everytime he finds her awake...
What does a romantic relationship (or any relationship) mean to him? Wouldn't be better if he just gets a pet?
Also, how can he not know that she was feeling lonely when she literally told him a million times? Why was he so surprised she dumped him? 😂 It took him a month to conclude she was feeling alone? No shirt Sherlock.
Btw, why does he think that the only thing he needed to do was to understand that she felt lonely? That means that his behavior wouldn't have mattered otherwise? It's okay to mistreat your partner if they're not having an existential crisis?
The way he never validates her feelings or acknowledges that he does something wrong, he didn't apologize once, and then has the audacity of telling Min Jun "do me a favor, don't make her feel lonely"? I beg your pardon? 헐. 너나 잘해.
I hope Hong only went there to find closure, and nothing else. It makes no sense to go back to him.
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Lostpanda is celebrating My Ajusshi 💔
October 21, 2024 at 6:06 PM
Yup, Jungo was horrible, and I’m still empathetic to him. I’ve done so many dumb and insensitive things in my younger days where I wish I could go back in time and redo them. Everyone has regrets and everyone should get a second chance. I live vicariously through these characters
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tabong is ironing the crosswalk
October 21, 2024 at 9:01 PM
Idk, his behavior is something that can get really scary in RL. Like Hong, you start questioning what are you doing, what's real and what's not.
He made her feel like she was dramatic for asking the most basic decency from her partner.
And he never apologized for that. One month later, or five years later, and he keeps talking as if Hong's feelings were the problem.
And it's not like we ever saw him trying to understand her. Ever. He didn't seem to know or care if she was going to school, what was her relationship with her friends/coworkers or anything else. Even when she calls him out on something he only gives her lame excuses instead of really listening to her and apologizing for his mistakes.
The fight scene made angry because I could see how desperate she felt. How crazy he made her feel. That's probably why she felt so much resentment of a five months relationship even after half a decade.
The drama may try to romanticize their past, but I don't think they actually showed me one reason why I should like or understand this guy. Yeah, we all make mistakes, but we need to learn from them and try to fix them if we can. If he can't even accept that he does something wrong and apologize for it, I don't know why I should feel for him.
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hallyucinations
October 22, 2024 at 12:27 AM
" Everybody should get a second chance"- Cannot agree more. Everybody is immature and insensitive at times, especially in their youth but even after. It is our flaws that create intimacies but flaws also create resentments. I think there can be no intimacy without some resentments. I am empathetic to both characters. I'd give them a third and a fourth chance too. :D
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Mrs Buckwheat
October 21, 2024 at 10:32 PM
Thank you very much tabong, I don't know if this was supposed to but it made me laugh-" Wouldn't be better if he just gets a pet?"
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ys
October 22, 2024 at 8:43 AM
‘헐. 너나 잘해’ – ㅋㅋㅋ
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5 Lostpanda is celebrating My Ajusshi 💔
October 21, 2024 at 6:03 PM
I hope that we, the audience, don’t get robbed of the scene where the publishing house workers realize that the subject of their popular book is standing right in front of them.
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Neolttwigi
October 21, 2024 at 6:16 PM
Personally, as an audience, I hope they never find out. I would die from (second hand) embarassment. And her Dad has read the book as well!
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FlourPower
October 22, 2024 at 6:32 AM
Wasn't there a scene where it was implied the dad knows, or at least suspects? When her sister brought her the book (on dad's request) and said something about how the female character seemed familiar...?
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ys
October 22, 2024 at 8:45 AM
A theory I read on another comments section is that the father orchestrated their reunion, having heard from his first love in Japan about the couple’s visit.
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Neolttwigi
October 22, 2024 at 2:37 PM
Interesting theory, may be true. But there is a big difference in someone knowing it is you and someone acknowledging publicly that it is you.
6 hallyucinations
October 21, 2024 at 6:20 PM
Thanks @dramaddictally for the lovely review. I really look forward to this drama every week. I love sitting with these flawed leads who love with each other hopelessly and waddle through cultural, psychological and geographical limitations. As someone who is in an inter-cultural relationship, I relate to both the explicable bond you feel with the person alongside the cultural frustrations/loneliness which comes with the package (and is as real as the bond). Tropey kdramas rock but I am also finding this mellow show delightful where I cannot predict the ending and I am myself unsure as to what I would find satisfying.
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FormAnOrderlyQueue
October 21, 2024 at 6:55 PM
Yes, I think this is one of the key strengths of the drama for me. Rather than being one dimensional (obvious they must be back together from the start) or even two dimensional (we lurch from "together" to "never!" to "together!" and so on), it simply leaves me musing. What is best for these broken people? Back together when so much of the initial situation was fractured and is still unresolved? Apart when things have not been finished and collateral damage (to Minjun particularly) is a high cost to pay? Friends when this relationship was never about friends? I really don't know what I want - you explained it perfectly.
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7 Vladdles
October 21, 2024 at 7:23 PM
@dramaddictally brilliant recap! I adore this show, it may be small but it is definitely perfectly formed..
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8 Nessa (Bebe) 🌹
October 21, 2024 at 8:28 PM
I feel like with each week, this drama is a prime example of telling viewers—and people in general— about how important it is to show up for yourself. Not to say that Hong’s feelings of loneliness as she’s literally all on her own in Japan are invalid—they totally are! It’s human nature and we have emotions and feelings, unless you’re a psychopath—but if I were in her shoes in Japan like that, my fight or flight instincts would have kicked in and I would show up for myself, least of which, at least try to make something productive and useful out of the situation, put myself out there and maybe find a job—especially if I know the local language— find something to do to keep myself busy.
When it comes to Min Jun, I do—but don’t— feel for him. He knew what he was getting himself into with Hong, knowing full well that her heart I
Will never be (fully) his in the way he wants. If the drama turns him into a whiny butt in the next few episodes— like we’ve seen dramas do with similar characters in other instances of 2nd ML characters with unrequited love—then I might just flip a table. Are we going to get an explanation as to why he never approached her 5 years ago until after Japan? I doubt it, so all I can go on is what we’re being given, and it’s sad that with such an emotionally gritty and deep drama, we may have to settle for a very flat 2nd ML.
I don’t know what to make of Hanna at this point, and honestly, she doesn’t even feel necessary as a character, imho. Nothing would change—be improved or made worse— if her character didn’t exist. I still find purpose with Min Jun, but not with Hanna.
Thank you @dramaddictally for another wonderful recap! 😊 Every week, I look forward to it!
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Nessa (Bebe) 🌹
October 21, 2024 at 9:41 PM
*Kanna*
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kiara
October 23, 2024 at 4:27 PM
I agree, and sometimes, it may take a couple of failed relationships to see it. Hopefully, she'll learn to find herself, her goals, her purpose, and what makes her whole and happy. Relying on someone else for your happiness is a recipe for disappointment.
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Nessa (Bebe) 🌹
October 23, 2024 at 5:02 PM
Yes!! So even if this drama doesn’t end with the OTP together, I will not be upset, as long as there’s individual improvement and we see the characters all showing up for themselves
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9 Enjoy the Day
October 21, 2024 at 8:44 PM
Great Recap. This was the best episode so far with the letter reveal, Minjun situation, and Jungo starting to see Hong's lingering feelings.
Two things that stuck out to me were Hong's father's dialogue about how love begins and if it ends. Then Hong's realization about their love ending without a chance to say goodbye.
That fight scene was so real, in the end the breakup wasn't really about intercultural differences but how each person's idea of receiving and giving love were so vastly different.
I don't think Hong is going to see Jungo to get together but rather to give them the closure they both need. I think she will choose herself and open herself to love again with someone else not Minjun or Jungo. Sad to say goodbye to these wonderful characters but I also can't wait to see the last episode.
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10 Reply1988 -❣️Mother Bean❣️
October 21, 2024 at 10:12 PM
Thanks @dramaddictally for a great recap.
Again, I seem to be the only one living in the land of confusion:
The family are all talking about the upcoming wedding, we see Hong trying on wedding dresses and yet Minjun apologises for being too shy to propose before😮 so was it mind reading or her asking him that led to the explicit wedding planning?
I loved her statement about even if she was married with three kids there is something that connects her to Jungo, even though she barely knows him and she had previously decided he didn't deserve her love. I think with all the poetry references throughout the drama she is referring to an in yun connection and even if the meet up is about forgiveness and closure they will always have that link and maybe once they close off the regrets they can move on and fully commit to new loves. If they decide to reconnect and marry in order to survive they need to commit to proper communication. I think they still have the problem of where they choose to live to minimise the impact of the external pressures on the relationship.
I am really intrigued how they will end this drama and what led the author to write such a fascinating novel in conjunction with a Japanese man. I want to read the novel to see how close the drama is to the original story.
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Mrs Buckwheat
October 21, 2024 at 10:51 PM
No, your not the only one Reply re land of confusion.
I'm watching going huh? He hasn't even proposed yet they are organising a wedding, I mean that's a bit odd.
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misshoggy
October 22, 2024 at 1:37 AM
So the idea of proposal is different in Korea. Korean “proposal” is more of a symbolic gesture of confirmation after the fact that the couple has agreed to get married and set the wedding prep train going, including meeting the parents. It is usually the last item on the “wedding list.” Some don’t even get a “proposal”. You will sometimes hear conversations among married Korean women if they had received one or not.
It is not what Western proposals- the proposer is asking their partner to marry them. The proposal is not a sure thing and could be rejected. Korean proposals are often a sure thing, basically a confirmation of things to come.
This is why Hong’s rejection to Minjun’s proposal is so cruel- she has already agreed to marry him and this proposal should be a sure thing. For her to change her mind here was a serious blow to Minjun and huge disappointment to her parents.
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Reply1988 -❣️Mother Bean❣️
October 22, 2024 at 6:32 AM
Thank you for providing the context to this scene. It also explains why some romance dramas end with the engagement but no wedding scene.
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Vladdles
October 22, 2024 at 7:04 AM
I am reminded of the scene from No Gain No Love where the women in the office had a conversation discussing whether their husbands had ever proposed before the wedding.
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Mrs Buckwheat
October 22, 2024 at 2:18 PM
I started watching NGNL yesterday and saw the scene you mention about husbands proposing and now it makes much more sense thanks to misshoggy's explanation.
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Neolttwigi
October 22, 2024 at 2:50 PM
Comment was deleted
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Neolttwigi
October 22, 2024 at 2:51 PM
You can really see this in Young Lady and Gentleman where the proposal is a planned event in front of the family. Invitations to 'The Proposal' (at a fancy hotel) are given out. It's like an engagement party, but a bit more formal.
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Nessa (Bebe) 🌹
October 22, 2024 at 3:03 PM
Yes, this is true!! Even within my own group of friends, I have a few of them who started wedding planing and house hunting before the proposal even came— it’s definitely not just an (East) Asian thing, as I live in Canada haha. I think this practice is just that the couple know and are certain that the courtship/dating phase of their relationship is going to come to a close in the form of welcoming a new phase of their relationship, which is marriage. In this case, the proposal is more of just the guy wanting to do something nice for his fiancée and to make engagement public to those around them 😊
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11 Mrs Buckwheat
October 21, 2024 at 10:58 PM
Both the characters make me frustrated with their behaviour.
I'm just here now to watch two very attractive people who are fabulous actors :)
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kiara
October 22, 2024 at 4:31 AM
I feel the same way.
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12 kiara
October 22, 2024 at 7:22 AM
This show makes me miss "Shogun," where the culture and customs are depicted clearly, making it easier for a foreigner like me to understand why the characters behave the way they do.
It's a bit difficult to understand Jungo without some cultural context. In "Shogun," one of the main characters, Mariko, explains the concept of the "eightfold fence" (based on a tanka poem) to her British love interest as a coping mechanism.
"Do you know "The Eightfold Fence"? From the time we are small, it is something we are taught to build within ourselves. An... impenetrable wall, behind which we can retreat whenever we need. You must train yourself to listen without hearing. For instance, you can listen to the sound of a blossom falling or the rocks growing. If you really listen, your present circumstance vanishes. Do not be fooled by our politeness. Our bows, our maze of rituals. Beneath it all... we could be a great distance away. Safe. And alone."
I know this drama is set between 2019 and 2024 in Japan/Korea, but I think this could apply to Jungo and why he is emotionally distant. It seems that he has been coping this way after being abandoned by his mother, but Hong doesn't deal with loneliness in the same manner. She needs him to be physically and emotionally present.
I think they moved in together mostly out of convenience because her roommate went back to Korea. So, it's not surprising that their relationship is half like that of roommates and half that of a couple in a romantic relationship.
It's interesting that the father asked the question, "Should love have an ending?"
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13 RenOIshi
October 22, 2024 at 8:00 AM
Poor Hong. I feel really bad for her. For her to say it out loud that she would choose Jungo in any other alternative life made me sob for her dilemma a bit. IRL her relationship with him will never last. Jungo is just a selfish jerk. He is all about himself without the flashing lights.
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14 ys
October 22, 2024 at 8:55 AM
I came here only to yell NO MINWOO!! but ended up reading and loving all the Beanie comments.
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15 Monapilou
October 24, 2024 at 5:57 AM
I am so in love with this show! It is full of raw emotions that tear on my heart strings. In this year of dissapointing, predictable romance dramas (QoT, LND, No Gain …) it made me believe again in the power of passionate romance writing.
Regarding Jungo: sometimes I am asking myself, whether indeed he represents the stereotypical Japanese man, that is passionate inside but must not show on the outside paired up with this almost pathological sense of duty towards work. That kind is not often displayed in the typical J-dramas, but after reading and watching a lot of documentaries on Japanese culture, I can see how character like this exists. And when paired up with a lonesome Korean woman, who comes from a different culture and has a different upbringing with regards to caring about
family, I can understand how he is so lost to understand what is going on.
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kiara
October 25, 2024 at 7:19 AM
What drew me in was the cross-cultural romance and the challenges the couple would need to overcome to make their relationship work.
Not everyone is well-versed in Japanese and Korean culture, so I hoped the show would have provided some of the cultural context, but there is hardly any, so we tend to judge from a Western perspective.
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