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When The Camellia Blooms: Episodes 5-6

Our heroine has a big task ahead of her if she wants to keep guard of her heart, as a certain zealous puppy of a cop is ready to sweep her off her feet if she’d let him. It’ll be an uphill battle since said he’s already willing to give her his all.

 
EPISODE 5: “The Mutt’s Strategy”

Dong-baek’s impulsive hand grab with Yong-shik is coincidentally witnessed by a good number of the neighborhood’s residents. Once everyone awkwardly makes their exit, Yong-shik ecstatically declares that he cannot, after all, stay just friends with her. Dong-baek sighs internally about how there are no secrets in this world, especially in a small town like Ongsan.

Sure enough, everyone is talking about the incident come morning. Dong-baek tries to walk down the alley unnoticed but the neighborhood ladies can’t help but stop and tease her, while also slipping in some derisive comments about her single mother status.

Yong-shik happens upon them and Dong-baek, noticing his presence, tries to scurry away but to no avail. He follows after her, shyly saying that they need to talk about the hand holding incident. With a trembling breath, he asks if this means they can now hold hands whenever they want. He’s so loud however that Dong-baek asks to speak to him somewhere more private, a statement that makes him blush.

In a deserted back alley, Dong-baek starts to apologize to him for not thinking her actions through, but Yong-shik interrupts her, sagely saying that he understands. Except, he’s gotten the wrong idea and thinks that she is apologizing for being forward with her skinship. He tells her that humankind was able to prosper because men and women were impulsive, so it’s better to not calculate such things.

At Dong-Baek’s confusion, he confesses that it was love at first sight for him. Yong-shik earnestly tells her he’s not the type to play hard to get and he’d made up his mind at the bookstore to go after her as long as she wasn’t already married.

The confession has Dong-baek basically clutching her figurative pearls at how direct Yong-shik is being. When he asks her out for lunch (getting the heart-flutters when she bluntly asks if he’s just going to confess to her again), Dong-baek tells him that she’s rejecting him in advance and leaves.

The neighborhood ladies gather to receive a delivery of crabs for their restaurants, and of course Dong-baek is still the topic of discussion. Chan-sook muses that all hell will break loose when Deok-soon finds out about her son and Dong-baek. It’s one thing being friends with someone; having that someone as a daughter-in-law is an entirely different matter.

That’s when Deok-soon enters, but she thankfully hasn’t heard anything. When one of the ajummas slyly asks her what kind of a daughter-in-law she’d like, but Deok-soon brushes her off by proudly declaring that she’s more modern than that. The only thing that matters is love.

That won’t be a problem with her son, and Yong-shik trails after Dong-baek after her rejection asking why she doesn’t like him. If he knows what her reason is, he can either change himself or give up entirely. Dong-baek decides to make him do the latter and tells him being a single mom doesn’t mean that she doesn’t have standards. He’s just not her style, she says, citing Gong Yoo as her ideal type. (HAHA they play his signature Goblin BGM.)

Yong-shik can only dramatically grab at his heart in pain at that. She continues that she likes men who are cold, prickly, and sensitive–pretty much the exact opposite of Yong-shik. At that bombshell, he whispers to himself in shock, how he could ever win against a goblin? He puts on a brave, obviously fake smile, and starts to leave.

However, he can’t stop himself from turning around one last time to tell Dong-baek that a mutt is the cutest type of dog, and that it’s the little things that grow on you without knowing. He tells her not to regret this later and start following him around, making a hurried, awkward exit.

Dong-baek is taken aback (again) by how he manages to make everything sound like a confession, but this time she can’t help but blush as well, hee!

Back at the Camellia, Dong-baek tells Hyang-mi to quickly pay back the money she owes the rice cake ajusshi. She offers Hyang-mi an advance on her paycheck, despite not having much money herself. Pil-gu overhears this as he wistfully looks at an ad for a tour to Qingdao, China.

At home, Ja-young calmly confronts Kyu-tae about his dine and dash at the Camellia, asking if he’s going to sue Yong-shik. Kyu-tae bluffs and says that he has to since his pride is on the line.

Ja-young asks him if he’s sure it’s not about an infatuation, brandishing the eye cream sample he gave her as evidence. She leaves after menacingly telling him to embarrass himself all he wants, but not her. Kyu-tae manages to squeak out, “Why do you even live with me?” But she’s already gone.

Chan-sook and Jae-young seek out Ja-young to find out if the Camellia’s lease will be renewed, but Ja-young steadfastly refuses to humor them. At each subtle suggestion she get involved directly, Ja-young just repeats that her husband will take care of it.

The ladies won’t let it go though and start to openly talk about Kyu-tae possibly having an affair with Dong-baek.

Ja-young shuts it down by coolly saying that a man who wants to cheat will do so no matter how careful one is–but Kyu-tae isn’t that kind of a man. But it’s clear that they’ve managed to hurt her ego.

At the police station, a reporter is interviewing Chief Byun about the Joker case. He explains the biggest difficulty in the case: the victims share no apparent similarities, making it hard to deduce a motive.

The only constant was a note the Joker would leave behind telling his victims to not joke around, always ending with an ellipsis.

The reporter isn’t interested in any of this information since it’s public knowledge. What she actually wants is details about the Joker’s only survivor. Chief Byun’s face goes dark at and he aggressively shuts down the topic, but not before clarifying that the person was a witness and not a survivor.

Kyu-tae is over at the Camellia, simultaneously enquiring and ranting to Hyang-mi about Dong-baek and Yong-shik. He brings up the damn peanuts again, saying how she could at least give her customers free peanuts. It’s up to Hyang-mi to break the news to him–Dong-baek gives free food to other people all the time, regardless of how little they buy, if she likes them. Kyu-tae is crushed.

Hyang-mi sees the eye cream in his pocket which, Kyu-tae nonchalantly gifts her. He plays it off like it’s no big deal, saying that the limited edition eye cream isn’t anything fancy. He only bought it at a duty free shop because it was on sale but can’t give it to his wife anymore.

Ecstatic, Hyang-mi praises him, saying that he’s smart, rich, the future governor, and has thick hair. She stops Kyu-tae’s entire world with a killer comment, “I respect you.”

The euphoria doesn’t last long because Ja-young walks into the bar. They sit down to talk and Ja-young reminds him they both own the building when he asks why she’s at the Camellia. She then tells him to kick out Dong-baek.

Kyu-tae meekly, indirectly, refuses. She abruptly drops the topic, and noticing the eye cream at the cash counter, says the building will soon become hers anyways based on his behavior (I’d guess she’s thinking divorce settlement).

Yong-shik takes Chief Byun and another police officer to the Camellia for a cheap lunch, using it as an excuse to see Dong-baek. He suggests officially serving lunch at the Camellia to her, but she curtly tells him she’ll take care of her own business. Chief Byun catches on to Yong-shik’s true intentions–except he thinks he likes Hyang-mi, ha! The pitying look Yong-shik gives him is priceless.

Kyu-tae barges in with handyman Heung-shik in tow, taking note of all the damage to the building. He loudly complains about every little thing, getting on Yong-shik’s nerves, who then also loudly punctuates each complaint with his own jabs at Kyu-tae and his morals.

Dong-baek can only watch as the not-argument between the two men picks up steam. It all culminates in an angry order from Kyu-tae to repaint the Camellia’s walls by the next day, which Yong-shik volunteers to do. Kyu-tae finally leaves, pissed off, when Dong-baek offers food to Heung-shik but not him.

Poor Yong-shik is sweating buckets as he paints the Camellia’s walls. Dong-baek says that she’ll pay him for his work but he waves it off, saying that there’s no need given their relationship. Dong-baek retorts that they don’t have a relationship and walks away, making his face fall.

In the kitchen, she frustratedly tells Hyang-mi about the way that Yong-shik gets intimidated by everything she says, comparing him to Pil-gu. She even complains about his excessive sweating, pfft.

Hyang-mi intuitively remarks how she seems to get irritated over him for no reason. Dong-baek’s usually quiet around people, but is outspoken and blunt with Yong-shik, and Hyang-mi says it must be because she finds him comfortable.

EPISODE 6

While painting the walls, Yong-shik freezes when he notices the message that tells Dong-baek to not joke around. He uses a table to hide it from Dong-baek’s view and runs to the police station to look over the Joker’s case files. He compares the handwriting and sure enough, they’re the same.

Chief Byun dismisses the similarity at first, saying there were a lot of copycats back then, but he becomes deadly serious when he notices that the message was addressed to Dong-baek. He abruptly leaves the police station and angrily tells Yong-shik to not dig any further, refusing to divulge any more information.

Jong-ryeol is looking at photos of Pil-gu on his school’s website, getting frustrated and upset at seeing him be the only one pictured without a father. He tries to discuss this with his baseball teammates, via the old “it’s about a friend,” but just the mention of a first love has everyone instantly guessing it’s about Dong-baek.

Turns out Jong-ryeol has been getting drunk and talking–and crying–about her for years. It’s a little sad to see him always come to the conclusion that nobody can replace Dong-baek.

The reporters from earlier are at the Camellia for lunch (aw, she listened to Yong-shik’s advice). They introduce themselves, addressing her as the sole witness of the Joker. Ohhh. Pil-gu’s studying close by, and Dong-baek looks over at him before firmly telling them to leave.

Pil-gu’s already noticed the tension in the air though and before leaving for his academy classes, he adorably tells her to punch them in the nose if they bother her. He gives the still-waiting reporters the stink eye as he walks away.

Protective Pil-gu seeks out Yong-shik on the way to class and after confirming that he’s on their side no matter what, asks him for a favor. Cut to: Yong-shik striding down the road as he narrates that he’s making an official move because of an official request by Dong-baek’s immediate family.

He comes upon the reporters still pestering Dong-baek and tells them to leave. It’s only then that he finds out about Dong-baek’s relation to the Joker case.

Dong-baek admonishes the reporters for their pushy behavior, calling them out for cornering her without notice or seeking advance permission. We go back to six years ago, right after the Joker’s last murder. The police shut down the Camellia to dust for prints and the media was speculating that the Joker’s preferred target was prostitutes.

Even though Dong-baek had only been a witness, they’d categorized her as a possible target and set up a police detail. Along with the 24/7 guard came assumptions about her “real” profession.

It all severely impacted her business, with people too scared to go to the Camellia anymore. Not only that, it gave way for even more gossip that turned her into the town’s icon of misfortune. Dong-baek finally broke down when she saw baby Pil-gu playing with old, broken toys.

The next day, she pushed out all the police officers, telling them that they weren’t protecting her, they were harming her. She’d cried as she told them she was just a normal person who wanted to live in peace with her child.

In the present, Dong-baek tells the reporters that their actions won’t protect her, they’ll brand her. The reporters still refuse to leave but Yong-shik firmly tells them to go, threatening to break their camera when he notices them trying to film Dong-baek surreptitiously.

The reporters challenge his authority but he shuts them up by saying that he’ll protect Dong-baek and that he’ll kill anyone who tries to bother her. This time, Dong-baek’s gaze is soft as she looks at him, grateful for someone standing up so strongly for her.

Sitting at a beautiful seaside place for some udon, Dong-baek thanks Yong-shik for what he did at the Camellia. When he asks if she really saw the Joker, she tells him that she’d only seen a glimpse from behind. She confesses that she was the one who had begged Chief Byun to keep her link with the case a secret.

She didn’t want Pil-gu to be known as the son of a woman who only brings disaster. Since childhood, people had never liked her and called her unlucky. But it’s not like she had wanted to be an orphan or a single mom. People would even say she looked unlucky, like she’d have a sorry life. At one point, she even started believing them.

Dear, sweet Yong-shik immediately curses them out, calling them morons. He vehemently tells her to ignore all that nonsense. Dong-baek laughs and says that he’s right. She’s lucky because she has Pil-gu; she wouldn’t trade him for anyone, not even G-Dragon or Kim Yuna. Thanks to Pil-gu, she’s blessed. Even as she talks about how lucky she is, a stray tear escapes from her eyes.

With the utmost sincerity, Yong-shik tells Dong-baek that he’d never trade her for anyone, not even if Princess Diana herself or Im Soo-jung were to declare their love for him. Dong-baek splashes some cold water onto the mood and sniffs that he’s talking as though she’s his. Besides, it’s not like Im Soo-jung would ever chase after him anyway.

He just says you never know what’ll happen in life and abruptly starts inhaling his noodles, both of them trying their best to hide their smiles.

Jong-ryeol is lurking outside the Camellia and spots Yong-shik walking Dong-baek home. Dong-baek insists that she doesn’t need his company, but Yong-shik says that his heart hurts just thinking about her being sad all alone.

He tells her that anytime she’s frustrated and needs to vent, she can just…poop it all out on him, with this big bright smile on his face hahaha. Dong-baek facepalms at the use of such a colorful expression.

She asks who Yong-shik is to be getting so upset, it’s not like their friends or family after all. His actions will just feed the gossip machine. Yong-shik looks at her for a moment then decisively asks, “You like good reasons, right?” He leads her into the Camellia and Jong-ryeol, having witnessed the whole thing, finds himself getting a little annoyed at seeing her live so well without him.

Inside, Yong-shik shows Dong-baek the Joker’s message, saying she needs to know about it. He tells her that as a police officer, he’ll protect her. He stumbles a bit as he continues that protecting her is how he plans to win her over. He declares whether it’s the Joker or a North Korean invasion, he’ll protect no matter what. Dong-baek flushes as she thinks to herself, “He really is a weird ajusshi.”

July 9, 2013
Dong-baek serves beer and free peanuts to one of her regulars. When she bends down to pick something up, she notices what looks like flour on that person’s shoes. After Dong-baek leaves, the patron takes a marker and writes down the Joker message.

 
COMMENTS

First of all, can we all just say a big hallelujah for the female lead finally being told early on that she might be in danger? Dramas always frustrate me to no end when important information is held back from them in the name of “protection,” even when danger is lurking nearby. Why? We have weak sensibilities and won’t be able to handle it? It’s ridiculous beyond measure. If I were anywhere near a murderer, I BETTER BE INFORMED. So thank you, Yong-shik. You just became 10 times cooler in my eyes.

I had initially been worried about how the show would incorporate the thriller aspect into this otherwise fun, quirky story that feels like a lovely, quaint romance, but this episode managed to gel the two aspects together well. The scene from 2013 hints at the Joker being a resident of Ongsan, and that makes me nervous. The neighborhood and its residents have been so well fleshed out that they feel like one big family, albeit with problems, something that is very hard to find nowadays. So it saddens me to think about how this might change once distrust and fear come into the mix.

I really do like the way that the show is exploring some societal issues. I feel for Dong-baek. Her being a single mother is hard enough, but she’s also the youngest and the newest of the matriarchs. It puts her in a position where even speaking up for herself could be tricky and have a huge impact on how even little Pil-gu is treated. That, coupled with her timid personality, makes me understand her behavior, even if it frustrates me. It’s easy to wish that she would be more aggressive like Yong-shik, but that’s not always the right answer. More importantly, Yong-shik can afford to behave the way he does because he grew up in Ongsan and, quite simply, he’s a man. So all things considered, she really is doing the best that she can under the circumstances. Dong-baek is not a doormat. She may be timid, but she still has a spine of steel. It is just that she shows it in a way different to others, like with Kyu-tae and the peanuts. It cracks me up how she does it with such a guileless expression on her face!

There is a wistful romanticism that runs through the show and nowhere is it more apparent than in Dong-baek. Even the way that she’s been styled, it’s been in a manner very distinct from the other characters of the show. Despite everything, Dong-baek seems to have held on to a bit of romantic optimism instead of becoming jaded. I think that may be a major reason as to why she refuses to fight for herself. What she wants is their love and support, to become a part of their makeshift family. I am dreading the moment when Deok-soon finds out about her and Yong-shik. Deok-soon had been the one person who stood up for her, something that has clearly been a rarity in her life, and so her reaction to the news might just hurt Dong-baek very deeply.

There’s obviously another person who stands up for Dong-baek no matter what, and it’s our dear old Yong-shik. He is an absolute delight to watch. I wish I could write in detail about each and every one of his meme-able facial expressions. He’s adorable in his earnestness and unconditional support for Dong-baek. But what makes him even more special is that he has a strong sense of justice, so it’s not like he’d ignore anyone being bullied or taken advantage of. It just so happens that being in love with the town outcast makes him especially passionate in his efforts to help. It’s pretty apparent that Dong-baek’s not as unaffected by him as she likes to pretend she is. He’s the type of person she seems to have been craving for her whole life: someone who’s transparent and wouldn’t give up on her easily. These two together are one zany couple that make me laugh, but also swoon with all. the. damn. feels.

 
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Well. I'm following through recaps so first of all, thank you for the recap! :-)

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And secondly, I like this show minus the serial killer part.

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I'm wondering if that's why I'm having difficulty watching the show. I like slice of life, but having serial killers or serial kidnappers (strong woman do bong soon) is a bit jarring for me. There's always that bit of suspense in the background that inhibits my enjoyment of the show.

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I agree. When the mystery pops in the story, it really disrupts the flow of the main story lines. I finally get why Camellia has not been integrated into the neighborhood because the women view her as their local "soap opera."

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I love Yong-shik! He's like a big, affectionate puppy who's all over the place and all over Dong Baek. LOL at their "morning after" talk about hand-holding. It's refreshing to see a guy overthinking for once; and not being afraid of laying all his cards on the table. How Dong Baek could resist that earnest smile is beyond me.

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How can you win against a Goblin - with that 10000W smile YS :)
Am loving the way his character is shaping up. Am just falling for him harder and harder.

I was so relieved he told her about the Joker message. Thank goodness for that.

I like the interactions between our leads. She may push him away with words but she clearly is comfortable speaking her mind to him. She is even able to joke and tease him. She is already falling for him even though she might deny it.

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[SPOILERS REMOVED]

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Hi Katrina, fyi reminder about the "no spoiler" policy and only talk about the current episode being recapped http://www.dramabeans.com/about/commenting-policy/

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Sorry got ahead of myself

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Thank you for being gracious about it!

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I get a little excited but I dont like getting spoiled either, ha

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Trivia - Gong Yoo starred with Gong Hyo-jin in Noona Romance Biscuit teacher star candy

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Lovely recap. Are you new, @queenvillain? Welcome to the minion recap army! I actually only saw the meta-reference to Goblin and Gong Yoo of this episode (as my husband is the one watching this and he called me into the room when it came on)! I loved it! Who would NOT be Gong Yoo’s type is what I’d like to know! I also love how he seriously calculates how he could win against a Goblin. No one hurt this puppy, please! Although he is dim-witted, the high voltage his heart makes up for it!

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That was the best scene! I laughed so hard

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I can see I'm in the minority here, but I gotta tell you, even though I adore dimwitted puppy dogs, I'm not on board at having one as a romantic love interest. True, I have a lot more respect for my old black lab "Heydude" than I do for my exhusband, but still. . .

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True, real life boy puppies are harder to train. For sure. Which is why I didn’t marry one. Leave them in my screen please!

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@ally-le

I think you have just found the nicest way of rejecting the all to disastrous notion of "I can change him".

P.S. I don't think Yong-Sik's version of 'puppy' is a total anathema to where Dong Baek is at in her life. I definitely don't know if he would grow into a long term partner. However, at the moment he does brings something positive that she sorely needs right now...to see that she is more than Pil-Gu's provider.

We have already seen that model of her existence has reached its useful end and Pil-Gu is now suffering because of it's limitations. As a child, he really needs his mother to see herself as more - as important in her own right.

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Yup. I love Yongshik and I think he's adorable, but I don't think (based on what we know about him right now alone) I would marry him!

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He is dim in some areas- okay alot of areas lol, but hes pretty astute in others. His protectiveness and loyalty probably means more to Dong-baek right now than most other things, at least that will get her initial attention. But everyone has their own tastes. I just think Kang ha-neul is really selling it well in this drama

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I have a weakness for one-track mind puppy. And if that puppy looks like Kang Ha Neul or Gong Yoo, I am sure I won't have the resolve to reject him as Dong Baek did.

However, I may find that total-devotion quite burdensome in real life, even though I secretly love it. I am so glad I don't have this problem in real life. 😊

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Thank you for the recap and welcome @queenvillain! I have been stalkin... Er refreshing DB for the whole weekend waiting for the recaps of Ep 3 and 4 because damn KHN has all my love now.

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Began googling KHN's dramas and I was surprised he was in the Heirs. He's like a whole different person! What a glow up! Will try to watch Misaeng next :)

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I've seen him in a lot of dramas, including Scarlet Heart, To the Beautiful You, and some others, can't remember offhand, but he plays all sorts of characters. This one really shows off his range, as he's usually a lot more worldly in his other roles. I almost don't recognize him.

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I highly recommend Youth Over Flowers: Iceland. It's variety but it's KHN at his most squishable for me :) Misaeng yes because it's also a great show! I didn't watch Heirs (Lee Minho does nothing for me and the premise sounded so entitled I couldn't stomach it conceptually) so can't comment there.

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He's mostly serious in his other dramas. This is like a rare time he has a happy character.

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I agree Yeong-sik is a mutt.... I want to put him in my pocket... :)

If the Joker is the resident in Ongsan, and a regular in Dong-baek's, I'm curious if we've seen him....

Hyang-mi is suspicious. She might be a good person, but how could she end up working at Dong-baek's and borrow money from the customers?

What I appreciate from this show is like "nothing could be held as secret for too long", like in the previous episode when it revealed that Pil-gu is Jeong-ryol's on, or YS is being honest with possibility of Dong-baek could be in danger.... And maybe, it won't be too long for YS's mother to know that her maknae is in crush with DB.

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I think Joker has to be someone that we have seen or will see hanging around as a regular. That's part of what makes it creepy. It's not just some stranger, but someone she considered a regular and liked enough to give free peanuts. (So definitely not Kyu-tae, right? Because, otherwise, he would be a prime candidate in my mind, since he is always craving the respect he doesn't get from his wife. But he doesn't get free peanuts.)

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I saw this and thought the show is trying to trick us. It could just be a random customer that Dong-baek gave peanuts to. Kind of like when you have a new guest who won't use your new blanket and you tell them, "go on, it's fine, our guests always use a new blanket."

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I feel like Hyang-Mi is there because somebody connected to the restaurant has to die and it can't be Dong-Baek.
Hyang-mi isn't a good person, but I feel like she's the sort of person who *could* have been a decent person if she'd had good parenting. I feel like she didn't. I don't know if she ws an orphan, like Dong-baek, or if her mom was just trash. And I'm not sure who else would have been willing to work for Dong-Baek. The wages can't be great, nobody with family support would be in hard enough position they'd need that job so it has to be somebody who can milk it for other perks.

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HM is also hiding out from people chasing her for debts. She also wants jump countries to Denmark, with around 100,000 US dollar equivalent. So she’s leeching off anyone she can, getting money anywhere she can. I think she’s being set up to be a victim (or so it seems).

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I have nothing constructive to say other than I love this show, I love this show, I love this show!

Basically, Gong Hyo-Jin brushed her hair back in the first episode and I was all:
"Congratulations, you've got me. Please go on."

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I'm with you Yong-sik wasnt the only one who fell hard and fast.

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This is such an unusual KDrama structure. Sure, movies like Memento told us the ending at the opening, but this one has just dropped us back into normal life and the murder plot barely moves.

All I can think of is why. Why caste a serial murder in such an ordinary tale full of puppy dog eyed romance? AND - where is this story going?

Instead of the murder plot, the story is building such a rich world - cutting to the quick on social conformity and how hierarchy's social norms are used as weapons. So...what for? What has this got to do with a serial killer in a small seaside village.

Sad theory time:
- I suspect the show may not have faked us and it is Dong Baek who has been murdered (& I will cry buckets)
- The murderer will be connected to someone higher up in the town.
- Many in the village 'knew' (suspected) all along but didn't want to rock the boat.

All we are getting to do is see normality before it no longer exists (with the full knowledge it is doomed).

As Yansha asked Yudhisthira beside the Lake of Death:
- Q: What is the most wonderful thing in life?
- A: Everyday innumerable humans and their animals die, yet people live everyday as if they are immortal.

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Sad theory implies this is a tragedy masquerading as a rom com... if done well, it could be a really interesting window on SK society’s “rules”.

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@hebang
It was all I could come up with to see how/why this strange/addictive story made sense.

Others may have a better reading - but form me the disconnect between the strong everyday life plot that is moving so rapidly vs serial killer that is almost just a slow moving shadow just doesn't mesh with normal Kdrama tropes.

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Thank you for the recap, @queenvillain!

I'm really curious as to why Dong-baek and Jong-ryeol broke up, it's obvious that even after all this time he's still not over her, what happened that made one of them walk away, I'm guessing it's Dong-baek, why did she decide to end it and why she kept Pil-gu a secret till now!

Also, it creeps me out to think that the Joker is a regular at Camellia, that it could be someone we've seen and we know, someone from the neighborhood and like QueenVillain said, this makes me nervous!

And I love Yong-shik, Kang Ha-neul is doing such a great job here, his expressions kill me, that whole alley-confession scene was hilarious!

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I wrote this elsewhere, but it gets to my perspective in JR and DB

DB: should I go there if it’s your colleague’s wedding?
JR: how am I going yo introduce you? It’ll be too troublesome if a scandal breaks out.
JR smiles a *full of himself* smile and walks away from DB.

His attitude towards DB, his lack of sincerity, his utter lack of respect for DB is epitomized by this scene. Whatever regret he may have now, he dug his grave himself of his own free will.

I don’t have any sympathy for his character.

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I agree with you, but I do have sympathy for him, because he didn't know how much she meant to him until he lost her. He was young and full of himself, and for sure he didn't want a family back then -- that is no doubt why she left him, because she wanted Pil-gu and she didn't want a reluctant dad. Now his career is coming to an end, and he realizes that he doesn't have anything else or anyone who loves him. I hope he gets the chance to be a dad to Pil-gu.

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@hebang,
That scene was very similar to the situation that ended the romance between the arrogant actor and the special effects makeup artist in ABSOLUTE BOYFRIEND.

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What really turned me off was his actions after his break up.

1. Fake marriage with a celebrity for purposes of PR
2. Brought a CHILD into the fake marriage. With a woman who could not careless about the child
3. Did not make one attempt to find DB and find out how she was doing

(Interpretation on my part) abandoning his child (to whom we don’t know) so that he can move around DB? Seems to me he is running from a bad marriage and a child he had no business making.

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@hebang,
I've been wondering what happened to Jong-ryeol's infant, too. I suspect the poor little thing is being cared for by maternal Grandma, but who knows? -- The idiot has replicated Dong-baek's abandonment by her mother in his own family.

Yep, he's immature and self-centered, and a publicity hound himself. Did he grow up in an orphanage himself? I'm not sure how he met Dong-baek.

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I loved your recap. I like how you point out that Dong-baek just wants to be accepted, to have a family has always been her dream, and that town is nothing more than one big family.

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Because I am obsessed with this show, and also simply a public service announcement -- in this episode, during the cops' dinner, Yong-sik asked Heung-sik if he had any paint in his store which matched the Camellia's wall paint, and presumably procured the grey wall paint from Heung-sik. In that specific scene, Heung-sik was wearing workman gloves. It's a blink-and-you'll-miss-it scene since Gu-tae then threw his fit at Dong-baek for not offering dinner to him ... :D

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I think it's him, too!

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Oh boy! @purebristles. Now I have to go back and check that scene out again.

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Lol I'm just sayin' this is what I saw in Epi 3, is all heehee :D

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Beside main couple and a kid, this whole town is so full of utterly unlikeable people that I wouldn't mind if killer went berserk in future episodes.

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@shach
What if that behaviour is actually normal?

P.S. Don't disagree with you...However hard it is for outsiders to swallow, SK Drama's social world just isn't informed by the Enlightenment - it's still based on SK's variant of hierarchical confucianism.

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Them being insecure, mean old girls have nothing with seniority or confuciansim.

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@shach
Oh - how I so hope you are correct...but I fear this may be part of what the drama is trying to explore.

Just to test the flip side - how would these women act if it was about hierarchy (where they are not the most powerful)? Wouldn't they use these exact tools against other women who threaten their position?

SKDrama is a world that has hierarchal power baked in. Power infuses every level of social interactions and is a world that spawns and tacitly accepts the chilling brutality of "wangtta".

The reason SKDrama is chock full of 'blaming the victim' and casting aside people with 'sad stories' is that protecting your position is at some level tied to SKDrama's reading of filial piety - falling would be disrespecting your parents and networks.

These women are fighting to hold onto their positions in their world. They may be playing on a smaller field but the battle will be as hard fought as any palace Sageuk.

Just as in a Sageuk, these women will plot, smear and cause pain - because to their eyes and the eyes of those around them, protecting their position is the morally right thing to do and takes precedence.

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@SadKDramaLama September 30, 2019 at 2:52 AM, cc: @shach

Thank you for articulating this in your post below as well. It cannot be repeated often enough for the benefit of international fans who may be unable to grok the pervasiveness of scapegoating or its long history in Korea. When I first began watching dramas and films set in contemporary times after starting out as a sageuk fan, I was appalled by some of the bullying depicted in schools. (Not that violence doesn't happen in real life in American schools.) But the ceaseless search-and-destroy persecution of the Korean form of shunning and scapegoating blew my mind. Why don’t they just leave people they don’t like alone, and ignore them?

I didn’t really even begin to understand it until I watched MAWANG / THE DEVIL / THE LUCIFER about two years ago. The drama examined the wangtta phenomenon from various angles over an extended period of time, and boy, was it depressing. Once you’re branded as wangtta, it follows you for the rest of your life. There’s no way to escape it or live it down. Even if you move, sooner or later you’ll be tracked down and persecuted. Unless you leave the country. This explains why Dong-baek is so seemingly passive in her response to the Marinated Crab Matrons. There’s no way she can shake off the reputation that has dogged her since childhood. And it threatens to blight Pil-gu’s life, too.

In my youth I taught English to Japanese college students in Hawaii. How well I recall my boss’s orientation comments to adjunct faculty to whom intercultural communications was a new challenge. When it came to adhering to Japanese social norms, “The nail that sticks up is pounded down.” Conformity was the law within the social hierarchy, as was knowing one’s place. It was a very different mindset for a Yankee from the Land of the Free to digest.

But when I consider it from a historical point of view, Westerners also had similar ideas of hierarchy long ago, such as the Great Chain Of Being that underlay the Divine Right Of Kings, and that tied serfs to the land in medieval times. Back then in Europe, human consciousness was much more collective than it is now, more akin to a hive mind. It gradually gave way to individuation, and a shift from more intuitive awareness to logic and abstract thinking during the Enlightenment, as you so correctly pointed out, SadKDramaLama. The down side is that individualism run amok devolves into anarchy.

Considering that America was colonized by adventurers, religious dissenters, debtors, indentured servants, and social misfits, it’s no wonder that the highly-structured social fabric of Korea is sometimes a puzzling conundrum of conformity to US viewers. But is that very otherness that makes Kdramas so fascinating for some of us.

-30-

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@pakalanapikake
MAWANG deserves so much more praise. All these years later it is still a powerful drama.

For 2007, it was more ambitious than people realise.

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@SadKdramaLama,
MAWANG is one of my top Kdramas. I was floored when it referenced M. Scott Peck's People of the Lie, which I mentioned in a lengthy discussion with other Beanies in the comments on http://www.dramabeans.com/2007/04/devil-mawang-wave-of-japanese-support/, since it was not recapped. The symbolism of tarot and Carl Jung -- and the imagery of the Galanthus (snow drop flower) -- all of it was stunning. The music was terrific, too.

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@pakalanapikake
There is a very interesting trend in JMovies at the moment where it is finding ways for the "nail" to exist.

They look to be exploring how "difference" manages to live within a traditionalist society. (fit in to conformity)...and it managed to find it by seeing a new measure of conformity.

As I understood it, previously (and as practiced in many of its cultural forms) compliance was measured by adherence replicating the ideal. However, recent stories are morphing “Ganbatte” as a higher cultural expression of tradition.

Those that tread alternate paths are still on the outer, and success is lonely and only begrudgingly acknowledged for those who achieve great skill. However, they are accepted. Interestingly there are hints that these outliers are in someway acknowledged as an important reference for those who walk the more acceptable path.

Its just a trend I am seeing in movies and some dramas - but as an outsider I have no way of knowing if it is actually reflective of life on the ground in Japan.

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@SadKDramaLama,
That's really interesting! So there might just be a place on the fringes for those who knock themselves out. Superhuman effort as an acceptable substitute for conformity. But who decides how much effort is enough? It could just be another perfectionistic treadmill... Change comes slowly, so this does offer an alternative that did not exist previously.

It reminds me of a Japanese phrase I used to hear in Hawaii: Shikata ga nai -- "It cannot be helped." Milton Murayama discusses the mindset behind it in his wonderful pidgin-flavored novel All I Asking for Is My Body.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milton_Murayama#All_I_Asking_for_Is_My_Body

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@pakalanapikake
That's the thing about “Ganbatte"...it's not just try hard in the "western" sense. Japanese use is so much more - yes a "perfectionistic treadmill".

Sure, it's still the "traditional" desire for conforming. However, to find a way to open up "tradition" is a huge conceptual leap for most people. Its an even bigger leap for an entire population.

"Shikata ga nai" to me has always looked like a phrase that marks moments of cognitive dissonance...and then swallow it down. It is a momentary seeing the reality of the emperor's new clothes and then trying to go on as if you hadn't.

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The show has sort of slowed down for me, but not exactly sure why. I think it may be that there's so much cringiness to the show. I felt for Dongbaek holding Yong Shik's hand with everyone watching, and yet she couldn't say anything.

I also have a hard time watching the local Ajummas really being nasty beyond belief. I really wonder why Dongbaek came to Ongsan. As someone said, it's such a claustrophobic little village.

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Thanks @queenvillain (I hope I tagged the correct queen villain!)

I find that this drama is able to mesh all it'd different genres quite well. I hope that there'll be a bit more on the investigation on top of the funny and the romance, which have been great.

KHN has turned out to be wonderful in this role. I'm totally convinced he's an overly earnest but dim cop, who's goofy-ly in love. I look forward to watching this to the end, in spite of the possibly painful loss of our heroine.

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I loved Pil-gu’s semi ‘goose’ of Yong-sik. Lol. It got the desired result. Next thing we see is YS marching off to the Camellia on “official” business.

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Also thank you @queenvillain for the recap.

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I like everything about this show except the serial killer part and calling yong shik a mutt. Mutt always reminds me about human size lizard that torn finnick’s body on the hunger games. Its pretty far from what yong shik is.

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I thought when she described the Goblin as her ideal type, she was being a bit mean, though it was necessary, but also said exactly who is the kind of guy she feels attracted to in reality.
She feels comfortable around him because he feels like a friend, he is younger, sincere, kind and she can plain like him, why can't she just enjoy his company?
I know we can't talk about ep 4 yet but more and more they are becoming friends and the guy that has any chemistry with her is still former boyfriend.

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When Dong-baek said she likes bad boys, she was also referencing Gong Yoo as the high school delinquent in BISCUIT TEACHER AND STAR CANDY who had as much of a crush on his teacher as Yong-shik does on Dong-baek. Is it foreshadowing by meta-reference that they tied the knot? Stay tuned...

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Haven’t seen that one yet...do you recommend it?

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@hebang,
It's an oldie but goodie, and Gong Yoo is a total cut-up. Gong Hyo-jin plays the teacher with whom he is smitten -- who goes on to tame him.

I watched it several years ago after COFFEE PRINCE, and started working my way through his filmography. Don't recall all the details. Give it a shot and see how you like it. ;-)

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Thanks, will try it.

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Woah!!!!

I had missed the Gong Yoo - BISCUIT TEACHER AND STAR CANDY reading.

Thanks @PakalanaPikake, got to give them props for that little bit of sweet drama writing - looking like Goblin on the surface but having multiple deeper readings.

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You're most welcome, @SadKDramaLama! As soon as Dong-baek said "Gong Yoo," I thought of GHJ's noona romance with him, not GOBLIN. I guess Yong-shik hasn't seen BISCUIT TEACHER, or he would have jumped for joy at the precedent. ;-)

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Thank you for your dandy recap of WHEN THE CAMELLIA BLOOMS, @queenvillain. I'm pretty sure that this is my first time reading one of your recaps, so I suspect you might be one of the new DB Minions. Welcome aboard!

Kang Ha-neul has been slaying me with Yong-shik's dorktastic sincerity, facial expressions, and turns of phrase. Watching him paint the walls at Camellia was a hoot. His chivalry knows no bounds.

What's not a hoot is the the sense of impending doom every time Scary Wife Esq. puts in an appearance. I felt like yelling at the two Marinated Crab Matrons to quit poking a grizzly bear with a pointed stick as they baited her about the impending end of the lease for the Camellia's premises. I don't know what prompted them to stick their noses into her business, but it made me mad as hell to see them antagonizing her. Sure enough, she later told Lord No to evict the tenant. Nice. Very Nice.
/sarcasm off

Although Peanut Moocher is a bullying pest towards Dong-baek, he's actually a very lonesome person who acts as if he is starved for attention and affection. His self-esteem seems to be at rock bottom, as evidenced by his response when Hyang-mi told him she respects him. I can only imagine what his mother is like -- she who "only" comes to his home 3-4 times a week. I bet that goes over like a lead balloon with Scary Wife Esq. -- unless mother-in-law is even more domineering than she is. Lord No gets the matriarchal bum's rush just like all the rest of Ongsan's male residents.

While Yong-shik's discovery of the threatening graffiti on the wall below the level of the tabletop was disturbing, the revelation that Dong-baek had seen Joker from behind at the site of his last known kill had me jumping out of my skin. Even worse than that was the flashback of Dong-baek passing a plate of peanuts -- on the house! -- to one of her regulars -- with flour on his shoes -- who then scrawled Joker's threatening mantra on the wall. Was that really just a copy cat bit of graffiti, or was it written by the actual killer? Yikes!

I don't know if the flour on the shoes is a red herring. For the time being, I'll merely note that he could be a baker -- or noodle maker. Or miller of rice flour. Maybe even maker of rice cakes. Hmmm.

The invasiveness of the TV film crew drove me up a wall, and was reminiscent of the reporter who got herself killed in COME HERE AND HUG ME. Throw Officer Cute Mutt a bone for running them off. As for the Marinated Crab Matrons' speculation regarding how his mother will react when she finds out that her son is involved with Dong-baek, I have a feeling that Deok-soon will be okay with the news, and may actually be happy as a clam. The MCMs don't really understand how she thinks. And I'm not certain that they know that she's protective of Pil-gu as well.

Hyang-mi is a strange piece of work. It appears that she purposely clogs the sink with hair. Is she interested in Heung-shik, Lord No's...

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Oops! Amputated!

Is she interested in Heung-shik, Lord No's plumber-handyman-paint vendor? I get the feeling she is.

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@pakalanapikake
I like Son Dam-bi's portrayal of Hyang-mi. It's just that little bit unnerving without overplaying it.

It has been such a long time since I saw her that I had not picked she is that Son Dam-bi of 2007 Kpop fame. As a sidekick/character actor she really sells it.

P.S. Yes the background details are becoming more and more ominous for our Dong-Baek.

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@SadKdramaLama,

I like Son Dam-bi's portrayal, too. She comes across as spacey but insightful, maybe with a touch of Ophelia madness.

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@pakalanapikake
...."touch of Ophelia madness"

Wow! Your writing slays me.

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@SadKDramaLama

Aw, shucks. Glad you enjoy it. ;-)

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@pakalanapikake,
In answer to your question, I am not sure.

One thing though, at the beginning of episode 3, during the hand holding scene, Hyang-mi and 2 customers (one of which I think is Heung-shik) come out from an alley where they had been smoking and slipped back into the Camellia. So we know HS wears gloves and smokes. This is a follow up to @purebristles mention of the gloves above. Right now I don’t think HS is our bad guy but you never know.

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Hmmm. My take on the sink clogs was that Hyang-mi is homeless, and living in the Camellia, washes up there as well including washing her hair in the sink - causing the clogs. She also sleeps there.

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@hebang,
Yes, I agree that Hyang-mi crashes at the Camellia, and had assumed that her hair clogs the sink because she washes it there. But then it almost looked as if she were stuffing hair down the drain so Heung-shik would have to come clean it out. Did I misinterpret the scene? It was dark.

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I thought she was sighing that she had clogged the sink unintentionally...but that could just be me. Did you see the intruder moving around in the back as she was trying to sleep?

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@hebang,
I guess they don't have sink strainers in Ongsan. Quick, someone could make a fortune!

Yes, I did see that, and it creeped me out. That must have been when the graffiti was defaced.

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Wasn't that Joker doing something that was revealed in the next ep? So he has to be someone who is near enough to know that YS was repainting the walls, but left that spot unpainted.

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Could the flour be dried white paint?

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@hebang,

Since Dong-baek saw the shoes under the table, she may not have gotten a good look at them in the shadows. Was it really flour on them?

Dried white paint splatter is an interesting possibility.

Other white or light-colored powdery substances that look like flour:
1. plaster
2. gypsum from wallboard
3. cotton lint
4. fine sawdust
5. ground limestone (fertilizer)
6. powdered mashed potatoes
7. starch
8. sanded spackle (from preparing walls prior to painting)
9. grout
10. chalk dust
11. very fine white sand
12. powdered clay (for skin care)
13. cement.

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Woo, Number 8! Brilliant! I’ll buy that.

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@hebang,
Thanks. Just playing devil's advocate.

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It could be something that got on his feet during one of his murders, and not anything that has to do with his occupation. When we first saw those sneakers as someone was spying on DB in the dark, they didn't have anything on them except maybe dirt.

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@lindag latebloomer,
Very true, the dirt or whatever on the shoes may have nothing to do with the wearer's occupation.

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Follow up on the shoes. Close up pic of the shoes on Pil-gu’s (I mean little Kim Kang-hoon’s) Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/p/B3Gs9l4jPnV/

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Thanks, @marcusnyc20 bong-soo. I still don't know what to make of the shoes.

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I didn't think she purposefully clogged the sink with hair- I thought it happens when she washes her hair in the sink because she has nowhere else to live and she doesn't want Dong-baek to find out.

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I'm curious to find out why the police think there's only one killer when all the victims differ so widely. So far there has been no mention of the evidence that led to that conclusion. What if everyone after the initial victim were killed by copy cats?

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@pakalanapikake,
Isn’t the hand written note left with the victims the main evidence? Speaking of which, that important piece of evidence should never have been revealed to the public. Poor police work. Somehow the note was made public (Oh! Look what we found!) and every screwball in the country (according to Chief Byun) was writing copycat notes.

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Iirc, they left out the fact the notes had three dots at the end. So the copy cat notes didn’t have three dots, the real ones did.

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I missed that about the 3 dots. Thanks.

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@marcusnyc20 bong-soo,
Oops! Yes, there are the yellow post-it notes, but some of them could nevertheless be fakes if the forger(s) were meticulous and included the elipses at the ends.

I agree that the police work was incredibly bad. Sorry, Capt. Byun, but now we know why you got busted down in rank. In his defense, it seems that Ongsan is a pretty quiet place, and the police had little or no experience in dealing with scenes of violent crimes. But still, it's not as if the cases are pre-DNA testing or BL (Before Luminol).
https://www.compoundchem.com/2014/10/17/luminol/

What I was driving at was the randomness of the victims, the circumstances, the killing methods employed, etc. There is no apparent pattern, from what has been revealed so far. No connections between the victims, either. Which leads me back to the hand-written notes that were deemed to be the main evidence. In focusing on them, the police may have given up searching for evidence too soon, or entirely overlooked something that appeared innocuous.

It wouldn't surprise me if parties in high places are involved. Crooked prosecutors come a won a dozen, so it's almost required that one or more be involved in suppressing the investigation of the murders.

I've got a feeling that Yong-shik is going to reinvestigate from the ground up. He'd better consult with the Vidocq Society's cold-case experts while he's at it.
https://www.vidocq.org/news-publications/

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Because of the note, it seems that the victims were all either people the Joker considered pathetic or else people who looked down on him in some way. I keep seeing different translations -- is it "don't be a joke" or "don't joke around" or "don't act up"? The meaning is important here.

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Yes, I'd really like to know the actual meaning of those words. Since killer bothers to write them over and over again, they need to mean something, and what that is, is important to us viewers ... we want to play along as investigators too!

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The translations are sort of literal and sort of correct...but I’m not sure they are correct in this context. In the context of the Joker writing to people who become his victims, the correct translation may be

“Don’t mess with me.”

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Thank you, @hebang. Context is everything. The drawback to reading words on paper (or computer screens) is that we cannot hear the tone of voice in which they were written. Which is one reason why I use ;-) a lot -- to let others know that I'm not being too serious, am feeling conspiratorial, enjoyed a bit of irony, to soften a statement so it isn't too strong or dogmatic, etc., etc.

Apropos of "Don't mess with me," that implies that the Joker (1) had had some kind of earlier dealings with the deceased, or (2) is defensive or even paranoid.

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@pakalanapikake, Yes! One candidate would be the handyman. The much derided son of an utterly cowed Lord No...Although he looks just too obvious...

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@hebang,
I think I missed the boat. Handyman Heung-shik is Lord No's son?! I thought he was Park Hong-sik, who sure looks like the actor in question, even if the phonemes in the character's first name differ from DB's rendering:
http://asianwiki.com/When_the_Camellia_Blooms.
But I'm confused because I thought he was married to one of the Marinated Crab Matrons.

Duh, does Lord No have an illegitimate son?! -- I think that Scary Wife Esq. would have killed him if he did that to her. Unless maybe this is a second marriage for him... but I doubt she'd marry a guy with an out-of-wedlock child.

Heung-sik isn't even listed in the cast, which admittedly maybe incomplete.

Wait: DramaWiki lists him this way:
Lee Kyu Sung (이규성) as Park Heung Shik.

The reason why I'm suspicious of Heung-sik is because he is often on site to unclog the sink -- and he receives special treatment in the form of multi-grain shakes from Dong-baek and Hyang-mi. If his really is Lord No's son, that must make for even more family discomfort.

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@pakalanapikake

Hmm. I must be wrong. Where the heck did I get that idea? Hmmm...

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@hebang, October 1, 2019 at 10:52 PM

Ongsan is such an odd little town that anything is possible. I think that Lord No brings Heung-shik over to Camellia as an excuse to drop by. Or maybe it's due diligence as the building owner.

I keep thinking about the figure dressed in black sneaking into Camellia when Hyang-mi is still awake. Everyone assumes it's a man. But it could be a woman with short hair under that baseball cap. Scary Wife Esq.??? But why? And is she big and tall enough to pass for a man?

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@pakalanapikake

Figured it out.
HS: No, I’ll just eat with my father
32:40 left to go on NFLX

This is at the end of the sequence where Lord No is complaining about all the damage to the walls and graffiti on the walls of Camellia. DB invites HS to eat before he goes, and HS responds with the line above.

I misunderstood the scene. I unconsciously connected the “father” in this remark to Lord No.

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@hebang FlyingTool
October 1, 2019 at 11:21 PM

Ah, now I understand. Dong-baek offered Heung-shik rice, and Lord No blew his stack and stumbled on his way out of Camellia.

It might be that Heung-shik is #1 Marinated Crab Matron Park Chang-sook's brother, in the same way that Coach Yang Seung-yeob is crab restaurant owner Yang Seung-hee's brother. I wonder if police officer Park Sung-min is related to them?

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@pakalanapikake, I thought about the possibility that Joker is a woman, but I don't think that fits, because Joker seems to have been a regular and almost all the bar patrons are men. No's wife didn't even recognize Dongbaek when she came for legal help. It makes more sense to me that in a village of downtrodden men, one of them has snapped and has found this sinister and deadly way to assert himself.

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@hebang "Don't mess with me." Seems to make more sense!

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@lindag latebloomer
October 2, 2019 at 4:28 AM

I'm wondering if Writer-nim wants us to make the same logical assumption -- that one of Ongsan's men has finally been henpecked off the deep end, while actually having a female perpetrator at large. Whether the killer's notes mean "Don't mess with me" or "Don't act up" [Know your place!], they could apply to anyone deemed to be upsetting the apple cart -- which is the self-appointed purview of the Marinated Crab Matrons.

While Scary Wife Esq. didn't recognize Dong-baek when she came to discuss Lord No's shenanigans, is it possible that she has confused Hyang-mi as the bar's owner? Capt. Byun initially thought that Yong-shik was attracted to HM, not Dong-baek, which makes me think that the lawyer might make a similar mistake.

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I can see why she might want to kill HM or DB, but if you think she's Joker, why would she have killed a boy in the past? Also, can you see her in dirty sneakers?

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@lindag latebloomer,
That has been bugging me, too. "Don't act up" sounds like something a male chauvinist pig would say to an uppity woman, or anyone else who was not behaving in a prescribed manner.

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@lindag latebloomer
October 2, 2019 at 1:43 PM

(I moved this over for a wider window.)

I have no idea why Joker is killing anyone, let alone a 6-year-old boy.

Good point about the likelihood of ever seeing Lawyer Hong in dirty sneakers. -- Unless it serves as a barometer of just how out of kilter she becomes.

At this point, I just have to wait until we get more evidence. I must admit that I've wondered if there isn't some kind of STRANGERS ON A TRAIN thing going on in this show.

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I have a thought about that after tonight's ep, but can't post it here.

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@lindag latebloomer,
I've watched it raw, and will get to the subtitles shortly. Maybe we'll do a Beanie Mind-Meld. ;-)

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@lindag
@pakalanapikake

OMG....How hard is it holding out till the recaps for this week!

This show has now totally got under my skin.

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@lindag latebloomer, @SadKdramaLama,

I've been biting my tongue after watching this week's episodes. Arrrrg!

Ep. 4 recap is posted! I just rewatched it to refresh my memory. But now I have to hit the hay. -- MY COUNTRY premieres today, so it may take me a while to get back to the CAMELLIA recaps. I'm bleary-eyed right now, so will have to get back to you, SKL. ;-)

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Does anyone else think that the young actor playing Pil Gu looks like Yoon Eun Hye’s character in Coffee Prince?

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I hadn't actually seen a resemblance, but would chalk it up to their haircuts.

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O/T @pakalanapikake, we may be seeing little Kim Kang-hoon (Pil-gu) in the upcoming MY COUNTRY even though I don’t see him listed on any cast list. He is carrying a MC teaser on his instagram page which early on shows a child. It must be him.
https://www.instagram.com/p/B3EXJcED_Vu/

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@marcusnyc20 bong-soo,
I wonder if he will be playing little Se-jong or little Do-hwan -- or little Jang Hyuk?!

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@marcusnyc20 bong-soo,
Just watched it, thank you! I suspect that he's playing little YSJ, whose father seems to have been charged with something other than treason -- or the males of his whole family and household for 3 generations would have been slaughtered. YSJ's character is spared and grows up to become a blacksmith. Did General Dad cut a deal with his rivals to kill himself? That's what it looks like to me.

Maybe the cast list will be updated after Kim Kang-hoon's cameo. For dramas with casts of thousands, DramaWiki often has a secondary page devoted to cameos and guest appearances, so he may pop up there.

I see the Sageuk Cliff Of Non-Doom is also putting in an appearance. ;-)

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Oh hey welcome @queenvillain!

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The character of Young-shik is quite simply different from most of your male lead characters. It is refreshing to see a man who is the polar opposite of the Tsundere Chaebol or so many of the other arrogant or uptight or closed off male leads that we get so often.

This is a man who is not just unafraid to let his feelings show- it simply does not even occur to him that there is any reason to do so. Because he lacks reserve (and sometimes restraint) he appears childish - that is why people have been comparing him to a puppy. He isn't.

It took me a while to see what we effectively were told about him from the beginning. He has standards and principles- and he refuses to compromise them. Because he does not waiver in following them he can act immediately where other men or women would be hesitating.

When he meets a bad guy he acts seemingly on instinct, whether it is a criminal or just a bore who demands free peanuts. It is not that he does not think- it is that the thinking is nearly instantaneous. Because Young-shik never tries to look for a reason not to act the actions that follow are also nearly instantaneous. Young-shik is never looking for a reason why the situation might not be his responsibility.

Young-shik is a hero. Not in the sense of the ordinary person who, at a crucial moment, does something heroic. Young-shik is simply heroic by his fundamental nature. It is very rare for a drama to explore this kind of character.

It is little wonder that so many commenters have said that they are really coming to like him. How could you not?

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This comment is spot on, @oldawyer. Very well said.

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@oldawyer OIdLawyer,
Bravo! What a great analysis of Yong-shik. Thank you for going to bat for him. I especially like this part:

It is not that he does not think- it is that the thinking is nearly instantaneous. Because Young-shik never tries to look for a reason not to act the actions that follow are also nearly instantaneous. Young-shik is never looking for a reason why the situation might not be his responsibility.

Far from being a mutt, Yong-shik is more like a pedigreed bloodhound who cannot help but smell the truth, and lets nothing, not even the constraints of the Confucian hierarchy of Korean society, deflect him from his moral obligations as a human being and an officer of the law. His ultimately untrammeled agency, whether at work or in his personal life, is so uniquely different from garden-variety Kdrama characterizations that many of us have underestimated him and written him off as a doofus. In actuality, he is such a rara avis that there is no time-honored pigeonhole for a character like him.

In the various iterations of Yong-shik arriving at the scene when a body is retrieved from a lake, he's practically on a mission from God to discover the truth, no matter how horrible it might turn out to be. He simply cannot not do it. And he would not have it any other way.

It's interesting to contrast Yong-shik's unfettered policing methods with those of the law officers in LIVE, who were hamstrung by abusive civilian elites and brass preoccupied with CYA. Even while toeing the line, they were roundly berated by the public they served. Yet they persisted in their efforts, which I considered heroic.

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Very well put. You put it very succinctly in saying that he simply cannot not do it.

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@oldawyer
Young-Shin is not ordinary - and many will mis-label him as simple. He is anything but. He is one of those rare souls who sees the world black and white - and survives.

The world usually grinds them down except for those few exceptions who have the fibre to take that very lonely path. Where he is truely astute is that he either realises or just instinctively operates on the position that: There is only one way to find a kind relationship, you have to wear your heart on your sleeve. (Ouch)

Props to the writer and production - they created a world where he is actually grounded and we can see where he found the shoulders to carry that. In the early episodes, his B&W view of the world was played for laughs but 2 weeks in I can not believe how fleshed out he has become.

This drama shows up so many other dramas which usually feed us male leads with some magical "hero" qualities - trying to make us suspend disbelief by trotting out some empty "Batman-esque" reference to an early life tragedy.

I wrote earlier that this character was operating as a Greek Chorus - calling out the injustice we all want to shout at the screen. Instead he is forcing his way to the front of this drama....and I'm loving the ride.

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I still kind of think of him as childish in some ways. His love is still very much idealized, he doesn't really knows her yet but he is sure of many things. He is a bit socially awkward and doesn't know how his actions will be understood by others, if you put this all together he comes across as a bit naive and young. I liked him from the start and he is a hero but heroes are frequently childish and even a bit dumb, he could easily loose his job being so impulsive and honest.

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@lixie
This is hilarious - and I love it. We have 2 sequential replies that are almost exact opposites...yet still love the character.

I think that is fantastic that the drama allows that range of reading and still works.

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You are right in saying that he remains naïve and can be impulsive- an d thus could make a costly mistake.

The same thing could be said of the greatest of the Greek Heroes: Herakles.

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@oldawyer
I think it's unfair to extrapolate his version of "impulsive" to then be at more risk of a mistake than anyone else. This town is full of people who constantly make mistakes and they are way less impulsive.

I like @pakalanapikake description of Young-Shin is like a "bloodhound who cannot help [it]."

The real risk of mistakes is when people act outside their normal behaviour. Eg. when hyper cautious drivers try to be aggressive. They don't know when or how to choose the moment. Naturally aggressive drivers actually read the situation and choose their moment.

Young-Shin is like the attacking forward - the goal sneak. This is where he is most natural and obviously where his timing and reactions are most instinctive.

I have found it interesting how for someone who we would normally cringe at in an KDrama, Young-Shin has (in his own way) been so astute in his courting of Dong-Baek. Sure it has all the energy of a teenage hormones. But it has broken through the defences of a woman who has closed herself in her protective shell, it has been beautifully heartfelt, and at times so warm. I don't think he has been mistake prone....its just people associate his behaviour with reckless youth.

There is something magical about people who can just see things we can't. Its like people who can make an amazing meal out of anything (or nothing)...they can actually see it in their minds first. I don't know where it comes from - some just have a gift for particular things.

Hey - the show could give all this up and he may just turn into a cliche...But to date he is a very rare Kdrama character.

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I think that I agree with your points. And you are absolutely right in saying that his heartfelt courting of Dong-baek is exactly what she needs.

And you also make a good point in saying that his different way of seeing and doing things is magical.

I too hope that this show does not give up on his character and try to change him into a more 'normal' male lead. That would be a shame. I am sure that his character is very difficult to write precisely because he is so rare- so there is no bag of stock cliché actions, words, mannerisms, or habits from which to write his story. It is much harder work to write a rare character. Still, if the writers can manage it there will be a reward for them because a rare character, if well written, is one that people will remember for a long time.

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@oldawyer
OMG....that such a beautifully observation.

..."I am sure that his character is very difficult to write precisely because he is so rare- so there is no bag of stock cliché actions, words, mannerisms, or habits from which to write his story. It is much harder work to write a rare character"....

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