This Week, My Wife Will Have an Affair: Episode 7
by CandidClown
When Soo-yeon makes a difficult decision, Hyun-woo is left scrambling to hold on to his marriage, which forces him to take a hard look at his own faults in the process. In the meantime, Joon-young fixates on a new obsession and debates on whether to come clean with his friends and colleagues. Thank goodness these guys have Bo-young around to provide some cool logic, though her solutions may not be what they were hoping for.
EPISODE 7 RECAP
Hyun-woo heads home, intending to follow TUNAMAYO’s advice and have a conversation with his wife. Instead, he arrives to find an empty house and divorce papers waiting for him, with Soo-yeon’s wedding ring sitting on top. He immediately calls his mom and is relieved to hear that Joon-soo is with her. His mom tells him that Soo-yeon said she needed some time alone, revealing that her daughter-in-law had told her the truth. She advises him to think about Joon-soo, and whether he wants his son to live in a broken home.
After he hangs up with his mother, Hyun-woo gets a text from Soo-yeon saying that she was afraid if they met in person, then they would end up fighting again. She continues that she doesn’t want to hurt him anymore, and asks him to contact her when he has his feelings sorted out. Hyun-woo angrily rips up the divorce papers, yelling, “Why do I have to get a divorce? Why me? What is it that I did so wrong? What the hell did I do that was so wrong?!”
Yoon-ki has his newest target in a hotel room, but the woman isn’t feeling very amorous and fends off his advances. Looking out the window, she says the lights remind her of Okinawa, and sighs that if she were to go there, then her heart and body would unfreeze. Yoon-ki jumps up like a dog that just heard the sound of kibble: “Even your body? Let’s Go!” They make plans to go that weekend.
Yoon-ki returns home and whines to Ara about the “nighttime hiking trip” that a certain Judge Kim is making him go on this weekend. He keeps ranting about how he’s so upset since he and Ara had planned to be together this weekend, and he’s really disappointed. Ever that supportive (and suspicious) wife, Ara sends her grouching husband to go wash up… then proceeds to sniff/inspect his clothing, finding a long, female hair on his tie.
Joon-young is well and truly drunk after the team dinner that night and sits crying to himself while an exasperated Bo-young watches over him. Sobbing about Hyun-woo’s pitiful life, he wails at Bo-young that she has no idea how pathetic his own life really is. Bo-young just sighs, asking if this is revenge for him taking her home when she was drunk. Heh.
Looking like she wants to be anywhere but there, Bo-young dashes off for a moment and returns to put a hangover cure in his hand and two heat packs in his jacket. She asks her semiconscious colleage to understand that this is the best she can do.
She starts to walk off but then comes back a moment later, looking torn.
Hyun-woo decides to stay the night at Joon-young’s again, wandering in and ranting that Soo-yeon asked for a divorce… only to realize that Joon-young isn’t home.
Back on the street, Bo-young walks away from Joon-young after wrapping a cardboard fence around him and sticking a post-it note to his forehead with the message: “Please wake me up at 7:30 a.m. I have to go to work.” Well, I suppose she tried.
Having asked her boss for a day off, Soo-yeon waits at a train station, bag in hand. Meanwhile, Hyun-woo sits amidst a clutter of empty beer cans, reading the responses to his post. More than a little tipsy, Hyun-woo scoffs at all the compliments to TUNAMAYO’s advice and types out a reply, accusing TUNAMAYO of just wanting attention.
All his many fans see his post and eagerly tune in to read Hyun-woo’s story, which is a criticism of TUNAMAYO’s bad advice. Hyun-woo flops back down on the couch while the tide turns in the chat room, with everyone criticizing TUNAMAYO for butting in.
Morning dawns, and a hungover Hyun-woo answers a call from Joon-young, who yells that their show’s premiere episode managed to get eleven percent ratings (translation: pretty good). Hyun-woo groggily asks where Joon-young is, but when Joon-young answers that he’s at home, Hyun-woo points out that he’s at his home, leading Joon-young to ask, “…Then, where am I?”
Cut to: Joon-young waking up in his cardboard fort on the sidewalk, getting stared at by pedestrians. Rocketing up, he finds the post-it that Bo-young left and sees that a number of people have added their own notes. The replies range from unhelpfully telling him to go to work, to apologizing for taking a sip of his drink. Hah.
Joon-young meets Hyun-woo for a convenience store breakfast, all the while ranting at Bo-young for leaving him in the cold when he took such good care of her before. His tirade is cut short when Hyun-woo shares that Soo-yeon asked for a divorce.
All ready to be flustered on his hyung’s behalf, Joon-young’s righteous fury gets interrupted when the pair overhear two customers discussing TOYCRANE’s latest post, gossiping that he’s about to get dumped by the woman who divorced him.
Hyun-woo and Joon-young quickly duck down, and Joon-young reads over Hyun-woo’s post, awed that he’s become a celebrity overnight. Joon-young asks if he’s really getting a divorce, but Hyun-woo snarls back that he’ll never get a divorce: “I’ll keep her by my side until I’ve sucked all the happiness out of her!” Yup, that’s healthy.
Soo-yeon arrives at her father’s house in the countryside. He greets her warmly, but there seems to be a polite tension between them. Soo-yeon’s dad makes her some food while Soo-yeon goes back to her childhood room, looking at all her old photos.
Hyun-woo and Joon-young arrive at work, and the whole team is abuzz to see the positive response that their program is receiving. Hyun-woo encourages everyone to keep working hard, but Joon-young is busy eerily glaring at Bo-young.
Back in the country, Soo-yeon’s dad brings a tray of food to his daughter’s room, but finds her sound asleep on the floor.
Getting ready for his Okinawa getaway, Yoon-ki goes to a tanning salon. He gets called away soon after by one of his many girlfriends. The two meet in a car, with Yoon-ki bemoaning how all the location shooting has led him to getting a tan in winter. Puh.
His girlfriend whines that he’s been ignoring her lately and asks him to go on a trip with her, but when he agrees that of course they should go, she grins and chirps that they should go this weekend. Since this clashes with Yoon-ki’s Okinawa plans, he distracts the young thing with a make-out session, covering her protests with rather forceful kisses.
Hyun-woo comes across Joon-young crying over his phone. Hyun-woo disbelievingly asks if he’s crying on his behalf (again), but it turns out that this time, Joon-young’s sobbing over the thoughtful and well-meaning comment that TUANMAYO posted in response to Hyun-woo’s criticism.
Joon-young is in awe of the magnanimous response to Hyun-woo’s tirade and starts berating his hyung for his harsh words, but Hyun-woo is more concerned to hear that TUNAMAYO responded to his new posts.
Back at his desk, Hyun-woo reads TUNAMAYO’s response: “You must be devastated. Wouldn’t the reason that you’re so angry be that you still love your wife? No matter what choice you make, please choose the one that leaves you with the least regret.” Hyun-woo remains unmoved by the touching words, interpreting it as a refusal on TUNAMAYO’s part to admit she was wrong in front of the other netizens.
In contrast, Joon-young has tipped over into worship mode, praising the glory of TUNAMAYO. (Oy.) Ignoring his converted hoobae, Hyun-woo angrily writes back that he followed TUNAMAYO’s suggestion, and now his wife is asking for a divorce.
At his post, all of Hyun-woo’s fans tune in, reading as Hyun-woo continues writing that he tried to be understanding of his wife and do all the things TUNAMAYO suggested, but now she’s asking for a divorce anyway.
Yoon-ki stops by the team’s office, and the sight of his browned complexion causes Hyun-woo and Joon-young to ask if he got hit by lightning. Yoon-ki’s airily explains today’s tanning trend, but Bo-young interrupts to tell them that their new husband for the show is here to be interviewed.
The team’s new spouse proves to be no weakling, angrily saying that his wife had an affair and is now asking him for a divorce. Hyun-woo and Joon-young exchange glances over the parallels as the man continues to yell that he’ll never give his wife the divorce.
Yoon-ki steps in to point out that as the cheating spouse, the man’s wife has no grounds to ask for a divorce. However, the man admits that, actually, he cheated on his wife three years prior. (Pot, meet kettle.)
After the interview, Joon-young can’t understand it: They both cheated on each other, so why won’t they just divorce? Bo-young says that it’s because a divorce means everything is over, and the man clearly still loves his wife.
At Joon-young’s disbelieving look, Bo-young points out, “Seeing how he’s still getting that angry, he must still love her.” Her words jolt Joon-young with how similar they sound to TUNAMAYO’s advice.
Soo-yeon is awakened from her deep sleep and heads out to her father, smiling to hear him playing the harmonica. Soo-yeon asks if he isn’t lonely living out here by himself, but he assures her that he’s fine before asking after his grandson.
The father-daughter moment is interrupted when Hyun-woo calls his father-in-law. Fishing to see if his wife is there, Hyun-woo keeps the conversation light, but Soo-yeon’s dad doesn’t reveal that she’s with him.
Yoon-ki is having some trouble keeping up with all his mistresses. Exhausted from his girlfriend, he tries to beg off on a date with the flower arrangement teacher, but the woman says they can just meet over the weekend. Unwilling to compromise his Okinawa trip, Yoon-ki gives in, and the two retire for hanky-panky.
Struggling to stay awake, Yoon-ki goes bathing suit shopping with the client he’s trying to seduce, who seems to like the idea of seeing him in an itty bitty speedo.
The film team discusses whether to use the two cheating spouses as this week’s topic, but Joon-young can’t stop staring at Bo-young, convinced she’s TUNAMAYO. After fumbling through the meeting, he asks Bo-young if she’s a member of the stocks chat room (where Hyun-woo posted). When she affirms it, he tentatively inquires if her username is a food.
Bo-young nods, asking if he knows her ID, and Joon-young looks like his world is imploding. After Bo-young leaves, Joon-young stares after her, whimpering that his precious TUNAMAYO can’t possibly be her.
Oh boy. In preparation for his new speedo, Yoon-ki goes to get a Brazilian wax. He’s happy to see that his attendant is a pretty woman, but she’s soon replaced by a burly man who unmercifully yanks the wax strips from Yoon-ki’s not-so-happy place (eeouch!).
At the team office, Joon-young grins/glares at Bo-young, believing he’s caught on to her TUNAMAYO identity. The grinning glare is so creepy that she confronts him over it, and Joon-young just goes off, calling her a hypocrite and demanding back his “days’ worth of touched feelings.” Bo-young just sighs to see Joon-young reach yet another level of crazy.
On a roll, Joon-young “outs” Bo-young as TUNAMAYO, whisper-yelling at her, “You knew that Hyun-woo is TOYCRANE and posted comments while pretending to be someone else, didn’t you?” He grins again, asking how long she’s known, but Bo-young snarks back, “What would I know? I just found out that [Hyun-woo] is TOYCRANE from you.”
Joon-young still doesn’t believe her, so she walks off, shaking her head at his antics and calling him a mental patient. Yeesh, the laugh he gives to her retreating form is alarmingly insane.
Hyun-woo and Joon-young share some couch time, both pouting over their prospective problems. Joon-young is still convinced that Bo-young is TUNAMAYO and sends an angry post about her, determined to make her respond to him.
Meanwhile, Soo-yeon turns her phone back on and calls Hyun-woo, who leaps up to answer it.
Hyun-woo immediately starts a mini-rant on the phone, asking how she could just take off and leave divorce papers behind. He reminds her about Joon-soo, and yells that he hasn’t done anything wrong to be punished with a divorce.
Soo-yeon asks him what he wants to do then, but Hyun-woo can only answer that he doesn’t know. He says he can no longer tell what’s right or wrong, but he doesn’t want Soo-yeon to decide on her own either. Aww, his words are angry, but more than anything, he sounds scared that his wife won’t come back.
Out of the blue, Soo-yeon asks her husband, “You’ve never cheated on me?” Hyun-woo stands shocked, unable to answer as Soo-yeon tells him to forget she asked before hanging up.
Hyun-woo wanders back to the couch in a daze and asks Joon-young, “Have I ever had an affair?” He tells him about Soo-yeon’s question, and how he got tongue-tied and couldn’t answer.
Because he couldn’t answer her right away, Hyun-woo starts second-guessing himself, telling Joon-young in a puzzled voice that surely, if he’d had an affair, he should remember… right?
Yoon-ki waddles to dinner with Ara, lying that his limping is due to pulling a muscle and not from have the hair yanked from little Yoon-ki. Ara drops the hint that her father was planning to come for dinner this weekend and was very disappointed to have to cancel, which has Yoon-ki hastily telling her to reschedule. He promises that he can come home in time for dinner with his father-in-law.
Ara starts to call her father to ask him to make Judge Kim cancel the “hiking trip” anyways, so Yoon-ki wincingly scoops her up and carries her to the bedroom, distracting her the best way he knows how. Later, as Ara is sleeping, Yoon-ki lies awake with a nosebleed from exhaustion. As a string of texts from his many mistresses beep onto his phone, Yoon-ki whimpers, “Because of Okinawa, I’m burnt to ashes.”
Still at her father’s house, Soo-yeon starts to read a book, but stops when she sees that Hyun-woo had written a note on the back page: “Don’t just look at books, come look at the stars with me.”
The sweet message from her husband reminds her of when the two were young. They’d been out looking at the stars, and the young couple had promised each other that, no matter how busy they get in the future with work and family, they’d make time to come look at the stars together.
Back in the present, Soo-yeon tears up at the memory.
The next morning, Joon-young waits for Bo-young with his late night post to TUNAMAYO up on his computer screen. Beckoning Bo-young over, he sighs at the mean things that people will say to each other online, but then gapes when Bo-young immediately writes a response to the mystery post, “I agree with this refreshing comment. Honestly, TUNAMAYO should mind [their] own business.”
Suddenly protective of his beloved TUNAMAYO, Joon-young pouts that they’re just trying to help, not be nosy. Bo-young is unapologetic as she states that the person had no right to butt into other people’s lives. She flounces off with Joon-young yelling after her, “What do you know about TUNAMAYO!?”
Hyun-woo scrolls through his phone as he tries to find out who he cheated with while Joon-young pouts that Bo-young isn’t TUNAMAYO after all. Hyun-woo distractedly says he thought she was TUNAMAYO too, but reveals that her ID is actually PUDDING.
Much relieved now, Joon-young helps Hyun-woo brainstorm over who he may have cheated with, but they come up empty. Joon-young decides that their only option is to ask Yoon-ki, claiming that their friend always remembers not only his own women, but other men’s women.
Unfortunately, the guru of infidelity is a bit of a mess. Joon-young and Hyun-woo even ask the exhausted man if he needs to go to the hospital, but Yoon-ki just groans cryptically that they don’t understand how tiring Okinawa is.
Hyun-woo shares Soo-yeon’s question, and Yoon-ki shoots out a number of establishments that Hyun-woo may have gone to that could be considered cheating (massage parlors, kissing rooms, etc.), but Hyun-woo hasn’t even heard of half those places, so that’s out.
Yoon-ki goes for a different tactic, telling Hyun-woo to picture all the girls he’s met in his life that he found attractive. Hyun-woo starts listing a few (and Yoon-ki and Joon-young immediately start judging him for each one), but then insists that nothing happened with those women.
At a loss, Joon-young suggests that if there wasn’t a woman, was it a man? Heh, Hyun-woo joins the ranks of people calling Joon-young crazy this week.
The time’s come for Soo-yeon to head back home. Her father puts a few dollars in her pocket and tells her to bring Joon-soo out to visit soon. There’s no hug goodbye, but as Soo-yeon’s taxi pulls away, her father follows the car down the driveway, and Soo-yeon can’t hold back her tears.
Joon-young sends a private message to TUNAMAYO that night, telling about how his wife left him and how he’s been living a lie ever since. TUNAMAYO responds by encouraging him to tell his friends, even if some leave his for it: “Don’t be afraid. It might be a good chance to find out who’s most precious to you.”
Yoon-ki finally leaves the office for Okinawa, but he runs into Ara on the way out. Knowing that he didn’t have any hiking gear, she brought some for him. With no choice but to accept it, Yoon-ki shows up at the airport looking like a pack mule on the way to Everest.
Still looking for answers, Joon-young and Hyun-woo ask Bo-young if, to her knowledge, Hyun-woo has ever had an affair. Stumping both of them, she asks what kind of affair they mean. Joon-young argues that an affair is an affair, but Bo-young fires back that there are many different kinds, and even just having your heart flutter can be an form of one.
When Hyun-woo scoffs that every man has had an affair then, Bo-young points out that men don’t show interest in women they don’t want to sleep with, so something as simple as a dinner date could be the basis of an affair.
Hyun-woo reads back through the online posts. Everyone seems to be firmly on his side, saying he did nothing wrong, but Bo-young’s words replay in his head. He calls Soo-yeon’s dad again, and this time the man readily says that Soo-yeon is on her way home now. Hyun-woo breathes a giant sigh of relief.
Soo-yeon picks Joon-soo up, and the little boy asks if his mom is coming home now. The pair are joined by Hyun-woo, who answers that of course she should come home.
Bo-young and Joon-young share a drink and discuss whether Hyun-woo should get divorced. Bo-young can tell that Hyun-woo has great love for his wife and that he bases every decision he makes off of that, but she says that his problem is that he can’t find the right way to tell Soo-yeon how he feels.
Joon-young asks if she got her own divorce for the same reason, and Bo-young states (in her regular blasé fashion) that her husband cheated, so she left him. Joon-young barely has time to choke down this news before Bo-young hits him with her own question, “You don’t have a wife, do you?” Joon-young sits stunned as Bo-young guesses that the story he told about his wife leaving him was true.
Over in Okinawa, Yoon-ki’s conquest is successful, and he and the woman fall into bed together, both blissfully unaware of the typhoon making its way to the island’s coast.
Hyun-woo and Soo-yeon finally sit down to talk, and Hyun-woo apologizes if he ever hurt her by cheating in any way. He admits that he has thought about having an affair before, and if she considered that cheating, then he’s sorry for hurting her.
Soo-yeon doesn’t respond, so Hyun-woo pushes a bit, asking if she cheated for revenge. When she still doesn’t answer, Hyun-woo nearly begs her to tell him the reason, since he’s going crazy wondering what it is.
Soo-yeon slowly answers, “It just… It just happened.” Hyun-woo is understandably frustrated, saying that he thought they were doing well — so how could “it” have just happened?
Soo-yeon answers that she thought they were doing well too, but she never realized how thin she was stretching herself. We see flashes of her daily life as she describes how she went out of her way to smile and be relaxed even when she was exhausted. She adds that she was always running around to pick up Joon-soo and take care of their home while also having a career. She says that she thought that everyone lived like that, so it didn’t matter if she wasn’t particularly happy or unhappy.
It wasn’t until she met Sun-woo and he started noticing how overworked she was that things started to change, she claims. That a stranger could see what she couldn’t made her look at her life differently. He asked her what she wanted to do, and she realized she hadn’t thought about just herself in a long time.
Soo-yeon finishes, saying that she knows it isn’t an excuse. She apologizes again, and annoyed, Hyun-woo asks if she had an affair because he didn’t notice how tired she was. He says that that’s how it is for everyone, pointing out that he hasn’t had an easy life either, but he still makes an effort to help with Joon-soo and the house.
Soo-yeon tries to say that isn’t what she meant, but ends up just apologizing again, saying that she should have told him she was having a hard time. Still, she cries that she can’t face him anymore, and that it’s all too difficult. Taking a breath, she finally tells a stunned Hyun-woo, “Let’s just stop.”
The next day, Typhoon Hera crashes into Okinawa, and Yoon-ki’s new conquest snuggles happily into her morose lover. Realizing that there’s no way to fly back home in this storm, Yoon-ki breaks the fourth wall to whimper a weak “Dammit,” as the soundtrack plays, “This isn’t right, this isn’t right, this isn’t how life is supposed to go…”
COMMENTS
It’s sad to see that while Hyun-woo is fighting to hold on to his marriage and understand his wife, Soo-yeon just wants to end it. They’re both reflecting the different sides of a relationship that Bo-young and TUNAMAYO described: a spouse who gets angry still has love for their partner, while someone who calmly accepts the end no longer has any feelings for the other person. Hyun-woo may be hurt and furious with Soo-yeon, but he obviously still loves his wife and doesn’t want to lose her. He’s trying so hard to find a way to get past this that he’s even doubting his own faithfulness, desperately looking for a flaw in himself that could justify his wife’s infidelity. Soo-yeon’s decision to ask for a divorce seems to have shocked him out of his vindictive streak from last week, and now, in spite of her transgression, he’s attempting to work it out and hold onto his family.
In contrast, Soo-yeon is just done with the whole thing. There is no fire or passion to any of her actions, but rather a bleak acceptance that her marriage is over. After however many years of spreading herself too thin added to the stress of the affair coming out in the open, it appears that she would rather end everything and stop the pain rather than fight for whatever might be left. Even when she thought back on their early years together, there was no happiness at the memory — there was just a final sadness, as though it was already over.
I really don’t see the point of Yoon-ki anymore, especially since I’m now so disgusted by his philandering that the only comic relief he provides is when he’s physically injured. I know that he does give a view from the cheating side of the spectrum, but his views on adultery don’t exactly warrant the crazy amount of screen time he’s been getting, especially since his story line isn’t actually going anywhere. If Ara were any closer to discovering the truth or having an affair of her own, then I’d be somewhat invested in their plot line. But at this point, I’m more interested in finding out the identity of TUNAMAYO than watching Yoon-ki get a nosebleed from too much extramarital coitus.
In spite of that small complaint, I’m still loving how this show continues to give a real look at a husband who not only discovered his wife’s affair, but now has to face where their marriage and relationship goes from there. We all grow up hearing that if someone cheats on you, you leave them — no exceptions. But really, there is no template to follow in this situation: You do what is best for you and your partner or family. Sometimes, like TUNAMAYO said, the best you can do is pick the choice that leaves you with the fewest regrets. It may be painful and morally questionable, but life often is.
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Tags: BoA, Episode 7, featured, Lee Sang-yub, Lee Seon-kyun, Song Ji-hyo, This Week My Wife Will Have an Affair
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1 mindy
November 21, 2016 at 8:16 PM
Yoon-ki got that Donald Trump chic going on with the orange skin
It's fitting. They both have absolutely no respect for women. I'm sure they'd get along swimmingly.
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Kath
November 21, 2016 at 8:18 PM
I nearly choked on my drink whilst reading the first line lol. (So accurate though !)
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samantha1
November 21, 2016 at 8:28 PM
hahahaha..
I know I was about to type something serious..But then I read your comment..All was forgotten..
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fayyyy
November 21, 2016 at 11:09 PM
Every episode I keep cursing at the guy. For God's sake why he doesn't he just die? I sound like a sadist but it gives me immense pleasure watching him getting hurt lol. But how long would it take for the wife to stop hoping or caring and give him a run for his life.And his friends are more pathetic in being patronizing towards him.Especially when Hyun woo knows ara personally, smh.
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kirin
November 22, 2016 at 12:23 AM
You know, at first I found him amusing, because the way they represent it is so wacky, but now I'm just really sad for his wife. She deserves more from life than just be his servant. And that moment when I saw the similarities between him and Trump just made me have zero tolerance for his character. Seriously, can we skip all his parts and delete his character altogether? Please? I'm begging here.
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potatodrama
November 22, 2016 at 7:46 AM
I cannot believe this is the same man of "Angry Mom".
What a great actor indeed!
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2 azzo
November 21, 2016 at 8:31 PM
I so agree with you Candid clown, every time I see yoon-ki on the screen I get so mad and disgusted, I really don't know how a person can be like that, how can he be this low! And these women, how can they fall for that?! I can't watch him anymore, I just can't!
I feel for Hyun-woo, decisions are never easy when there are kids involved, and just when he decided to hear Soo-yeon and work this out, she made her decision and left him, I'm sure she thought a lot about it but I don't think that was enough, it was sad how he started questioning himself just to justify what Soo-yeon did!
I love Joon-young!
Thank you CandidClown for the recap.
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bigmomma12345
November 22, 2016 at 6:25 AM
I, too, dislike Yoon-Ki. He is disgusting and gross. But I also wonder what is driving him. Is he truly just a reprehensible man or is there an underlying pain driving him? It is entirely possible that he is just a cheating fool. But given the way this show is presenting the characters in their current states and then slowly revealing more about them, I wouldn't be surprised if they give him a reason for his philandering either. (But honestly, I would kind of prefer he just be a disgusting cheater because there isn't always a reason, some people are just cheaters.)
On a side note, as a still somewhat new-ish drama watcher, does JTBC always have such interesting character-driven dramas? I have really enjoyed the dramas I've seen from them this year and hate that they get low reviews because of being cable.
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mary
November 22, 2016 at 5:38 PM
JTBC don't have a lot of shows but theirs are usually... different? I don't know how to describe it. They have misses too. No channel is perfect. But your comment made me check the list of their dramas and I saw a lot more positives than bad ones in there.
I also see a lot of raves for their variety shows too.
If you're liking their offerings so far, you should check their old dramas. Cruel City and Yoona's Street are my favs. :)
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3 Questions
November 21, 2016 at 8:34 PM
Pretty sure Ara is Tunamayo
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samantha1
November 21, 2016 at 8:38 PM
That's what I was thinking right from the start too. She can't possibly be just using her phone for posting pictures...
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azzo
November 21, 2016 at 8:45 PM
Yup, that's what I think too!
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MapleSilver
November 21, 2016 at 8:47 PM
At one point I thought she even sounds like Ara. But since we don't really know the gender of Tuna Mayo it could also be Hyun Woo's boss.
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AnonymousCommenter
November 21, 2016 at 8:55 PM
I was thinking that it could be sooyeon, but after the most recent episode, i thought if its not her then who, why is there this mystery going around tunamayo for it to be brought twice. Then thought of all characters and i thought, it must be ara. She is the only one who we dont know much. It seems there will be a progression to yoonki ara couple, too.
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fayyyy
November 21, 2016 at 11:11 PM
Omg that totally makes sense! She has already got the poise factor..and added to that she's calm and composed all the time.
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foxleaps
November 22, 2016 at 4:35 AM
The woman whom they always show during the message board scenes -- the one who is sitting in the dark with something like a blanket over her head -- that definitely looks like Ara.
I always assumed we were being lead to believe that woman is TUNAMAYO, and that it was quite obvious it was Ara...?
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foxleaps
November 22, 2016 at 4:43 AM
(At any rate, considering the caliber of that actress and the nature of her previous roles, she'll be laying down the law sometime soon)
bigmomma12345
November 22, 2016 at 6:28 AM
Wow - Ara being TunaMayo did not even occur to me! Does this mean she had an affair? Because TM's posts seemed like they came from someone who had an affair themselves. I'll have to go back and review them - maybe I was misinterpreting them.
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potatodrama
November 22, 2016 at 7:47 AM
This is a really great theory.
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rentenmann
November 22, 2016 at 9:16 AM
PLEASE help! Am I right in thinking that her name in Korean is part of "I know"? I've heard "ara" and seen it subbed as "I know". Is that correct?
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MapleSilver
November 22, 2016 at 9:37 AM
I think you are correct.
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Time
November 22, 2016 at 11:22 AM
Pretty sure. Otherwise, there is almost no point and existance of this couple.
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MikoDee
November 22, 2016 at 12:48 PM
Yup, the first thing I thought. It has to be her. I'm so vexed with her philandering husband and wish she'd just break it off. This isn't a marriage.
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mary
November 22, 2016 at 5:40 PM
That's an awesome theory.
Then it'd be more awesome if she finally catches Yoon-ki cheating and instead of being the calm, pro-communication TUNAMAYO, she goes all-out war on his cheating ass. XD
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4 samantha1
November 21, 2016 at 8:44 PM
I just started watching this drama this weekend and I've been loving it so far especially the soundtrack. I would never get tired of listening to Urban Zakapa's I Don't Love You ♩ ♪ ♫ ♬ ♭
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Kath
November 21, 2016 at 8:48 PM
THIS !! The circumstances in this show are depressing to say the least but the song choices and OST just helps add to it. I've got both Park Won's & Urban Zakapa's songs on repeat now or days.
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loveblossom🌸
November 27, 2016 at 6:31 PM
Yesss their songs are so good! The whole OST has been great so far. I like 2BiC – Mr Trouble too.
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5 mint25
November 21, 2016 at 8:54 PM
To be honest, I find it hard not to feel for Soo-yeon. I don't want to excuse her actions or say that what she did was acceptable but she honestly does seem absolutely exhausted.
I know that Hyun-woo had his own issues with work and whatnot, but while he repeatedly says that he used to help Soo-yeon with the household chores, we don't really see much of that. And what little he does is blown out of proportion. Like in an earlier episode where he drops off his son at the bus stop, the women coo over him for being such a good father when he honestly just fulfilled a responsibility that ever parent has. Hyun-woo may have used those praises or similar things to inflate his ego, because "unlike other men" he helped around the house. Soo-yeon had to run to pick up Joon-soo after school, had to cook, had to constantly chat and interact with the other mothers. This may be what is expected because "everyone lives this way" but it doesn't mean it's right.
I just think that we're being a little harsh on Soo-yeon without really knowing the full picture because Hyun-woo clearly has his share of faults, and while that doesn't mean Soo-yeon's affair is alright, he isn't really the ideal husband he painted himself to be. And I'm happy that he's starting to realize that and is perhaps willing to work on his marriage.
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bakedpotato
November 21, 2016 at 10:23 PM
+ 1000
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 3:28 PM
She betrayed his trust, humiliated him in the worst way possible and lied to his face for half a year, without caring how it would affect him or their child (so much for "putting them first").
She was overworked, partly because of choices she made. He took her for granted and didn't support her enough. He was also not a mind reader. They had problems communicating. Those are simple problems of work life balance that, as he pointed out, basically everybody has (he should have been more attentive, and while she did chose her lifestyle, there is no reason they couldn't have rescheduled it so that she could enjoy work, home life and alone-time).He loved his wife. He took her somewhat for granted. He could have been more attentive. He did help out occasionally, but not enough. Now that he has discovered that he had been led by the nose for the last six months, he is angry and wants to verbally provoke his wife. He is basically lashing out, and it's not really about the trigger, but about what she did to him. One has to point out that he has just discovered the betrayal, humiliation and deception by catching her red handed, so it's not exactly inexcusable that he might be filled with anger.
Now, when I see people saying things like "yes, she did cheat but" or "yes, he is hurting but", I think that they are either insane or hypocritical assholes. There is no place on Earth where the emotional trauma of learning that you had been deceived for the last half a year is morally equivalent to having angry outbusts after learning that fact. It's basically an objective truths that there is no universe where her actions are "understandable" and he is completely unsympathetic because he is angry. The differences are many. For starters, these are qualitatively different acts in terms of severity, quantifiable as the emotional harm caused to the person. Then there is the fact that him being angry with her is completely within reason and a perfectly justifiable response. I can essentially guarantee that none of the smug assholes currently finger-pointing as monday armchair quarterbacks would react the same way, if not worse. We are human beings, so it's not believable that keyboard warriors will proclaim Christological equanimity and feign outrage. By the same token, I can almost guarantee that no one would act like she did, this is empirically proven by the fact that in the modern world most people have busy lives, and yet most people don't betray and deceive the people who love them.
Also, regarding the "putting him and the kid first". I would say that six months of not giving a damn about the way her actions would affect her husband and child are more than enough to make the contrary case in terms of selfishness. You can eat vegetables all days for years, but if you eat cows for six months, there is no way you can pretend to be a vegetarian. I think that this is the morally normal way to approach the situation, and I can't really...
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 3:28 PM
Also, regarding the "putting him and the kid first". I would say that six months of not giving a damn about the way her actions would affect her husband and child are more than enough to make the contrary case in terms of selfishness. You can eat vegetables all days for years, but if you eat cows for six months, there is no way you can pretend to be a vegetarian. I think that this is the morally normal way to approach the situation, and I can't really empathize not only with her characters, but also with some of the comments. It's like saying, yes, she did torture and shoot the dog, but there's worse, her husband passed when the light was red. Err... the first is much, much worse than the latter?
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 7:22 PM
Sometimes people get blindsided and think they know a person better than they do. This does not mean that their love isn't genuine, and a normal human being would have some understanding that even if people are a bit arrogant and self centered, it doesn't mean they are a devil. If they consider that it should follow that all their relationships should degenerate into betrayal, humiliation and lies -if that is a reasonable expectation-... well, I truly hope that the people who are making this false equivalence that they said it here first: unless you are perfect, don't bother hoping for any sliver of honesty or respect. Hope they can sing the same tune something similar happens to them in the future. Maybe the will discover that they, too, are not perfect
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 7:45 PM
Consider that some texts were all she needed to catch his attention and alert him that there was a problem. Not *that* oblivious and self centered, right? Could have been better. But he was not *that* dense. Imagine what she could have done had she explicitly told him she had an issue when she finally realized she was tired, rather than playing bs guessing games like a fucking teenager and pretend that he read her mind. The other guy was coming at it from a fresh perspective, sometimes the people we see less clearly are those closer to us (which is why it could very well happen that other people know someone has an affair before his partner does). It might be a higher emotional intelligence, a fresh perspective or chance. It doesn't say much about them morally (the fact that they would be willing to betray their spouse, humiliate them, and lie to their faces, with no case for how it would affect their partner or their children, does).
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matrice
April 5, 2022 at 5:31 AM
"Hyun-woo is understandably frustrated, saying that he thought they were doing well"
"Soo-yeon answers that she thought they were doing well too"
"she went out of her way to smile and be relaxed "
"she wasn’t particularly happy or unhappy."
"saying that she knows it isn’t an excuse."
"Soo-yeon ends up apologizing again, saying that she should have told him she was having a hard time"
The thing here is that this was not a one-off. She was having an affair for six months, and would have continued to meet her lover and lie to her husband indefinitely had she not been caught. At any point during the affair she could have chosen to reverse course and talk about her problems, but the day after their anniversary, he tried asking her how she was and she replied she was fine, and tried convincing her to spend some time together to reconnect, which would have been a perfect time to reverse course and address her issues, and she lied to him about a business meeting, while going to the hotel to sleep with her lover. So she cannot really use this as an excuse, because this was not a one time thing, she had a whole six months where every day she could have chosen to come clean about her issues (and hopefully about her deception), and on in the future, since she planned to continue to cheat and deceive her husband.
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anya
November 21, 2016 at 10:56 PM
I agree that people are being a tad harsh. I think her desire to end their relationship is not that she wants to end it. She can't find a way to rebuild since she's so guilt-ridden. What happens when your life finally overwhelms you to the breaking point of having an affair? Not due to a cheating spouse, but perhaps one who neglected as time wore on? It doesn't justify her actions yet her reason is understandable (though not necessarily relatable). She would have to forgive herself before making it work again with her husband.
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 11:03 AM
I don't agree that they are being a tad harsh. If you do something like that to a person, you can't expect them to treat you well in return. And he just discovered her half-a-year deception, catching her red-handed. He has every right to be angry, *everyone* would react like that in their position, something they would have to admit were they not too busy monday-morning-quarterbacking (by contrast, most people wouldn't deceive someone they love for half a year). It's like grieving after a funeral, people don't have the right to expect you to crack jokes on the return trip to the cemetery. You can't betray, humiliate and deceive someone, and then expect them to treat you civilly, as if nothing happened.
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⭐ Sera The Ms Temper ⭐
November 22, 2016 at 12:04 AM
She is a symbol of exhausted woman. It is sad to see her actually while being mad at her.
Man is simple-minded, but woman is more complex. Man won't be able to understand woman unless woman expressing herself, and also the same the other way around.
Both need to work on their marriage, communicating and understanding are the key point to save their relationship. I personally disagree with her decision to end their marriage without trying to do something.
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 11:38 AM
I can't really think of anything more morally bankrupt to say than this. It's completely backwards. "I don't want to excuse", then proceed to make excuses. "I understand... but...". No, you obviously don't. I am not making like of the condition by calling that autistic screetching: this is basically lacking theory of mind. That ought to become the next "I am not racist, but". It's sure to be followed by grandstanding bs, diminishing, euphemizing weasel words and facts spinning. Oh, and victim blaming, too. I find the lack of empathy for the protagonist to be kind of unbelievable. *Everyone* would react like that in their position, something they would have to admit were they not too busy monday-morning-quarterbacking (by contrast, most people wouldn't deceive someone they love for half a year).
First of all, there is no comparison between what they did, but the order of severity is tilted in the other direction. She betrayed his trust, humiliated him and lied to his face for the last half a year, without caring about how it would affect him or their child, and would have continued doing so, had he not caught her red handed. Nothing he could say to her could even come close to humiliating and hurting her in a comparable way. That's simply not the moral equivalent of what she did.
I view things like physical abuse as points of no return in a relationship. Lying to someone to his face for month on end is on that spectrum. In divorce law, there is a concept of "fault divorce". Cruelty (phisical abuse) and adultery being fault conditions. It's on a different moral scale, and just like I wouldn't put "he hit her, but she is always verbally attacking him", I wouldn't put a verbal fight with another person on the same level of breaking someone's trust and humiliating deceiving him for months on end. She was tired and he wasn't perfect. You might argue with someone and be both at fault. If he punches you in the face, he can't blame it on the argument, it was his choice.
Lastly, there is the fact that *just* discovered it. This is something that just happened. He has every right to be angry at her. If you treat someone like shit, you can't complain that they treat you like shit in return. It's in no way unjust or unfair, you reap what you sow. Or, put otherwise, it's perfectly fair for him to be unfair in this circumstance. It's not rocket sience, if you put people through this kind of pain, you can't expect them to like you and treat you well. It's like grieving after a funeral, people don't have the right to expect you to crack jokes on the return trip to the cemetery. You can't betray, humiliate and deceive someone, and then expect them to treat you civilly, as if nothing happened.
I am not against them splitting up, but it's completely absurd that she would be the one asking for divorce (after hurting and deceiving him as she did, she can't exactly be outraged that he would tell her at any change how low...
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 11:38 AM
I am not against them splitting up, but it's completely absurd that she would be the one asking for divorce (after hurting and deceiving him as she did, she can't exactly be outraged that he would tell her at any change how low of a person he think she is... she had his trust, she squandered it, now she can't complain that he won't trust her and always think the worse of her -she gave him ample reason to make it logical to prefer that heuristic-) when it should be him that doesn't want anything to do with her anymore. Though, of course, he should jump at the chance.
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 3:04 PM
I really get irritated to see those things discussed in the same breath, as if lying to someone's face for six months straight, betraying and humiliating him, would be somewhat comparable to . I think that we wouldn't be talking about this if it was something more openly cruel like outright domestic abuse. But in my eyes, it's a morally unacceptable behavior on the same continuum. Meaning that it's *really* fucked up, not *a little* fucked up. It's not a verbal fight or beign oblivious to someone's issues. I also have to note that Sun Woo was the *only* one that noticed (her son and her other friends were equally oblivious, which to me makes your unfairly critical assessment of her husband -coupled with a weasly, slithery minimizing of her actions- dubious at best). Also, you probably don't have teenage kids, or your assumption that you should be able to perfectly understand and introspect someone you love if you just chose to, even if they don't tell you anything, impossible to mantain without laughing.
Communication is key to a relationship, but honesty and basic respect have to be assumed. She could have legitimely left him, but deceiving him was unexcusable.
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 5:35 PM
To complete the metaphor, I would say that the guy suffers from a variant of battered wife syndrome. He was better than the other husband, which puts things in perspective... I mean, not that we want to follow the lowest common denominator, but the charge against him from some commenters (and himself) is *literally* that he is not perfect. If this he was one of my female friends I would seriously be worried about what else she would be willing to accept from the relationship while being paralyzed by self blame and holding herself to an absurd standard (and excusing away the boyfriend's behavior). He is in no physical risk, but it's basically the same attitude and the same dynamic of unreasonable expectations and being unable to let go of a toxic situation.
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 5:39 PM
This refers to the him in the future, not to the relatively, if not introspective, one we see here
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matrice
April 4, 2022 at 8:31 AM
She is not just exhausted. She is also someone that cheated with a married man. Not sure how having an affair was supposed to improve her schedule, looks to me like it would add work.
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amarawrrr
November 22, 2016 at 3:42 AM
The problem with his statement that "Everyone is exhausted" and "Everyone lives that way" is that he is not part of that "everyone" he is making reference to.
Like you said, he feels that he has earned himself the title of a good husband because he has chipped in and helped out with some of the house chores and child rearing, etc. But what he (and a lot of people) don't realise is there's a difference between helping out because it's part of your responsibility to do so and helping out when it is convenient for you to help out.
Because at the end of the day when it is not convenient for either one of them to carry out their responsibility as parents, Soo Yeon is the one obliged to fetch their child amidst busy schedule, or hold up her work to go back and cook for the family or do the laundry and put their child to bed despite the exhaustion and the pending workload.
And the saddest part of all of this is the fact that she (and scarily many people) believes she doesn't really have the right to complain because all this is essentially what a Mom/wife is supposed to do anyways. You getting a "good husband" who "helps out" is a privilege you need to thank your lucky stars for getting.
So is it that surprising that she is so obtuse and reluctant to explain herself when she feels like her excuse for her affair is simply invalid?
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Time
November 22, 2016 at 12:27 PM
Strongly agree on this.
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 12:29 PM
"Everyone is exhausted" and "everyone lives that way" are completely fair statements. That he may or may not be part of that "everyone" does in no way constitute a "problem", a claim's truth doesn't change based on who states it (besides, while an unappreciative asshole, he is not lazying on the couch all day contributing nothing). I might be a billionaire and argue that being short of money doesn't entitle anyone to rob a bank. There is no contradiction in that.
Also being an unhappreciative asshole might mean you deserve her to leave you. It doesn't mean you deserve to have your trust betrayed, and to be lied to your face. You are not owed love, but you are owed the bare minimum of honesty and respect. He was not perfect. Does this mean he deserved to be cheated on? No. Let alone deserve, is her reaction a justifiable leap from the sorvable initial problem of bad communication? No. Making him cook would make him a better husband, but it doesn't mean he would be any more or less deserving of being hurt, humiliated and deceived the way he was. There is simply no proportionality.
The post above basically concede his point. without apparently realizing that it destroys his ad-hominem argument. Working women that have to take care of the house are overworked, assholes husbands help less than they should and he was actually one of the "good ones" in that, while being an unappreciative asshole that took her for granted, he did have a job and helped a little. That's basically the claim he was making, and you will notice that it's not as if people generally respond by having affairs. That's because it's not a reasonable way to respond.
Having to deal with stresses and issues doesn't give you a free pass to hurt, humiliate and deceive people who love you and have not hurt you in any way. We understand the path from A to B, and call people that behave like that, taking their frustrations out on others, assholes. She feels that her excuse for her affair is invalid for a very good reason: because it is (for the reason explained by her husband and that you yourself confirmed).
Let alone working women, life balance is something people in general struggle with. People need to take their minds off their concerns. They might consider better time management, exercise or meditation. There is no justifiable leap from that to betraying your husband, humiliating him and lying to his face for half a year, it's simply not one of the available options. Plus, a lover doesn't add extra hours. In the time she spent with him she could have just as easily gotten some me-time doing yoga.
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 12:30 PM
Ultimately, I take issue with calling her exhaustion, or lack of communication (that they both contibuted to... he should have been more attentive, but he can't be expected to be a mind reader), or any of their issues, which could have legitimely lead to a breakup, the "reason" or "excuse" for her action. She did what she did because she chose to. Saying to life is hard is banally true. If you are hungry, you can either beat up someone and steal his food, or go to a restaurant. There are the circumstance, and there are choices to deal with them. What you do doesn't depend on the circumstance, but on the choice. Most people would have chosen differently.
If you are in an argument, you can be both in the wrong. If you escalate by throwing a punch, then you can't refer back to the discussion and say that you were both in the wrong about the previous argument. The punch is a separate thing, and only the assaulter is responsible for his own actions. He doesn't get to claim that "he started it", he is not in kindergarden. The same way I wouldn't excuse domestic violence on the grounds of stresses and misunderstanding, I wouldn't accept those as justifications for humiliating and deceiving a person for months on end.
He, and people in general, should be more appreciative. That doesn't come close to being an excuse for what she did.
matrice
October 19, 2018 at 7:21 PM
Sometimes people get blindsided and think they know a person better than they do. This does not mean that their love isn't genuine, and a normal human being would have some understanding that even if people are a bit arrogant and self centered, it doesn't mean they are a devil. If they consider that it should follow that all their relationships should degenerate into betrayal, humiliation and lies -if that is a reasonable expectation-... well, I truly hope that the people who are making this false equivalence that they said it here first: unless you are perfect, don't bother hoping for any sliver of honesty or respect. Hope they can sing the same tune something similar happens to them in the future. Maybe the will discover that they, too, are not perfect
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 7:46 PM
Consider that some texts were all she needed to catch his attention and alert him that there was a problem. Not *that* oblivious and self centered, right? Could have been better. But he was not *that* dense. Imagine what she could have done had she explicitly told him she had an issue when she finally realized she was tired, rather than playing bs guessing games like a fucking teenager and pretend that he read her mind. The other guy was coming at it from a fresh perspective, sometimes the people we see less clearly are those closer to us (which is why it could very well happen that other people know someone has an affair before his partner does). It might be a higher emotional intelligence, a fresh perspective or chance. It doesn't say much about them morally (the fact that they would be willing to betray their spouse, humiliate them, and lie to their faces, with no case for how it would affect their partner or their children, does).
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matrice
April 4, 2022 at 7:54 AM
Strongly agree on the societal issue, not on it being used as a reason for deceiving your partner. That like blaming your impotence on climate change. Also, not sure how a lover would address her busy schedule, seems like it would add work.
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mint25
November 22, 2016 at 9:48 PM
Damn, that pretty much summarized all of my feelings in a much more coherent way :)
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 1:05 PM
"Everyone is exhausted" and "everyone lives that way" are completely fair statements. That he may or may not be part of that "everyone" does in no way constitute a "problem", a claim's truth doesn't change based on who states it (besides, while an unappreciative asshole, he is not lazying on the couch all day contributing nothing). I might be a billionaire and argue that being short of money doesn't entitle anyone to rob a bank. There is no contradiction in that.
Also being an unhappreciative asshole might mean you deserve her to leave you. It doesn't mean you deserve to have your trust betrayed, and to be lied to your face. You are not owed love, but you are owed the bare minimum of honesty and respect. He was not perfect. Does this mean he deserved to be cheated on? No. Let alone deserve, is her reaction a justifiable leap from the sorvable initial problem of bad communication? No. Making him cook would make him a better husband, but it doesn't mean he would be any more or less deserving of being hurt, humiliated and deceived the way he was. There is simply no proportionality.
The post above basically concede his point. without apparently realizing that it destroys his ad-hominem argument. Working women that have to take care of the house are overworked, assholes husbands help less than they should and he was actually one of the "good ones" in that, while being an unappreciative asshole that took her for granted, he did have a job and helped a little. That's basically the claim he was making, and you will notice that it's not as if people generally respond by having affairs. That's because it's not a reasonable way to respond.
Having to deal with stresses and issues doesn't give you a free pass to hurt, humiliate and deceive people who love you and have not hurt you in any way. We understand the path from A to B, and call people that behave like that, taking their frustrations out on others, assholes. She feels that her excuse for her affair is invalid for a very good reason: because it is (for the reason explained by her husband and that you yourself confirmed).
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 1:05 PM
Let alone working women, life balance is something people in general struggle with. People need to take their minds off their concerns. They might consider better time management, exercise or meditation. There is no justifiable leap from that to betraying your husband, humiliating him and lying to his face for half a year, it's simply not one of the available options. Plus, a lover doesn't add extra hours. In the time she spent with him she could have just as easily gotten some me-time doing yoga.
Ultimately, I take issue with calling her exhaustion, or lack of communication (that they both contibuted to... he should have been more attentive, but he can't be expected to be a mind reader), or any of their issues, which could have legitimely lead to a breakup, the "reason" or "excuse" for her action. She did what she did because she chose to. Saying to life is hard is banally true. If you are hungry, you can either beat up someone and steal his food, or go to a restaurant. There are the circumstance, and there are choices to deal with them. What you do doesn't depend on the circumstance, but on the choice. Most people would have chosen differently.
If you are in an argument, you can be both in the wrong. If you escalate by throwing a punch, then you can't refer back to the discussion and say that you were both in the wrong about the previous argument. The punch is a separate thing, and only the assaulter is responsible for his own actions. He doesn't get to claim that "he started it", he is not in kindergarden. The same way I wouldn't excuse domestic violence on the grounds of stresses and misunderstanding, I wouldn't accept those as justifications for humiliating and deceiving a person for months on end. He has the right to act morally superior in this istance because on balance, while an asshole, he is.
matrice
April 4, 2022 at 7:52 AM
Nothing coherent about that. The societal problem is real, this does not mean that it can be used as a reason for the affair, that's like blaming your impotence on climate change. Not sure how adding a lover in the mix is supposed to clear up her schedule (though apparently when she needed to meet up and sleep with him the hours suddenly appeared).
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 12:27 PM
"Everyone is exhausted" and "everyone lives that way" are completely fair statements. That he may or may not be part of that "everyone" does in no way constitute a "problem", a claim's truth doesn't change based on who states it (besides, while an unappreciative asshole, he is not lazying on the couch all day contributing nothing). I might be a billionaire and argue that being short of money doesn't entitle anyone to rob a bank. There is no contradiction in that.
Also being an unhappreciative asshole might mean you deserve her to leave you. It doesn't mean you deserve to have your trust betrayed, and to be lied to your face. You are not owed love, but you are owed the bare minimum of honesty and respect. He was not perfect. Does this mean he deserved to be cheated on? No. Let alone deserve, is her reaction a justifiable leap from the sorvable initial problem of bad communication? No. Making him cook would make him a better husband, but it doesn't mean he would be any more or less deserving of being hurt, humiliated and deceived the way he was. There is simply no proportionality.
The post above basically concede his point. without apparently realizing that it destroys his ad-hominem argument. Working women that have to take care of the house are overworked, assholes husbands help less than they should and he was actually one of the "good ones" in that, while being an unappreciative asshole that took her for granted, he did have a job and helped a little. That's basically the claim he was making, and you will notice that it's not as if people generally respond by having affairs. That's because it's not a reasonable way to respond.
Having to deal with stresses and issues doesn't give you a free pass to hurt, humiliate and deceive people who love you and have not hurt you in any way. We understand the path from A to B, and call people that behave like that, taking their frustrations out on others, assholes. She feels that her excuse for her affair is invalid for a very good reason: because it is (for the reason explained by her husband and that you yourself confirmed).
Let alone working women, life balance is something people in general struggle with. People need to take their minds off their concerns. They might consider better time management, exercise or meditation. There is no justifiable leap from that to betraying your husband, humiliating him and lying to his face for half a year, it's simply not one of the available options. Plus, a lover doesn't add extra hours. In the time she spent with him she could have just as easily gotten some me-time doing yoga.
Ultimately, I take issue with calling her exhaustion, or lack of communication (that they both contibuted to... he should have been more attentive, but he can't be expected to be a mind reader), or any of their issues, which could have legitimely lead to a breakup, the "reason" or "excuse" for her action. She did what she did because she chose to...
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 12:28 PM
Ultimately, I take issue with calling her exhaustion, or lack of communication (that they both contibuted to... he should have been more attentive, but he can't be expected to be a mind reader), or any of their issues, which could have legitimely lead to a breakup, the "reason" or "excuse" for her action. She did what she did because she chose to. Saying to life is hard is banally true. If you are hungry, you can either beat up someone and steal his food, or go to a restaurant. There are the circumstance, and there are choices to deal with them. What you do doesn't depend on the circumstance, but on the choice. Most people would have chosen differently.
If you are in an argument, you can be both in the wrong. If you escalate by throwing a punch, then you can't refer back to the discussion and say that you were both in the wrong about the previous argument. The punch is a separate thing, and only the assaulter is responsible for his own actions. He doesn't get to claim that "he started it", he is not in kindergarden. The same way I wouldn't excuse domestic violence on the grounds of stresses and misunderstanding, I wouldn't accept those as justifications for humiliating and deceiving a person for months on end.
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 7:46 PM
Consider that some texts were all she needed to catch his attention and alert him that there was a problem. Not *that* oblivious and self centered, right? Could have been better. But he was not *that* dense. Imagine what she could have done had she explicitly told him she had an issue when she finally realized she was tired, rather than playing bs guessing games like a fucking teenager and pretend that he read her mind. The other guy was coming at it from a fresh perspective, sometimes the people we see less clearly are those closer to us (which is why it could very well happen that other people know someone has an affair before his partner does). It might be a higher emotional intelligence, a fresh perspective or chance. It doesn't say much about them morally (the fact that they would be willing to betray their spouse, humiliate them, and lie to their faces, with no case for how it would affect their partner or their children, does).
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matrice
October 22, 2018 at 12:50 PM
As for "excuse", there is a difference between explaining a behavior and excusing a behavior. A crooked cop wants money. Money is a valid explanation, but it doesn't excuse his behavior. Now, to me it's pretty clear that nothing could excuse her behavior. As for explaining, it is a pretty piss poor explanation. She had to work and do housework. That's though. She had to take care of *one* kid. In the show they make this out to be a huge deal (he too, in the future). Now, consider the billions of people in the world in the same position with less money, having to work two jobs to make ends meet and maybe having to take care of two, three, four kids, maybe even someone with disability, or an older/sick parent or relative. There are tons of people that had it *much* worse than her all over the place, just around her, without having to go so fare as to consider war refugees or people in third world countries dying of hunger. She has a busy schedule, and this is partly by choice (after all, it's not as if her career is something that someone else decided to choose for her, if you value your time, choose something with a flexible schedule). Not to say that it was a wrong choice, or that she should necessarily sacrifice one or the other, but that's essentially what she had agreed to, thinking she could do it, and when she realized she couldn't keep up, what she should have done is either reorganized her schedule (as she did when she needed to find the time to meet with her lover, so nothing impossible -after all, fucking someone doesn't add extra hours to the day), or had a frank, *explicit* talk with her husband (not some teenege "read my mind" bs game). Just a few messages were enough to catch his attention, and surely between being lied to, humiliated and betrayed for half a year, and a potentially harsh conversation, he would have much preferred the former. If she wasn't willing to have that conversation because he was an asshole, then that simply means that she cared more about avoiding the hassle of rustling his feathers than about his feelings, their relationship or the promise she made when she married him.
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matrice
October 23, 2018 at 11:29 AM
Well, he will later also come in useful when it comes to changing the lights and fixing something in the house, given the way they keep calling him to help with that.
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matrice
October 23, 2018 at 11:32 AM
Once again, I see no obvious or reasonable connection between being tired and overworked and sleeping with someone else, anymore than I would with being mildly irked by someone and start beating him in the streets. It just doesn't excuse that kind of behavior. In both cases, I would say "Okay. I understand. You are an asshole".
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matrice
April 4, 2022 at 7:49 AM
This is hogwash, him being less busy has no bearing on the truth of the claim at all (that's what it means for something to be true). Relaxing the interpretation of that "everyone" (so as to exclude stoners in a commune, etc.), the fact of the matter is that there are tons of people living harder lives than her, single parents with multiple children running three jobs, families with three/four children where both parents have jobs. Again, they have *one* kid. If stress was an excuse, no fortune 500 CEO (the Marissa Meyers of the world) would be able to have a relationship.
As for "her excuse for the affair is simply invalid", that's because it is. She could have told her husband, furthermore she was the one that chose these commitments (some, like them mom's group, being clearly optional), they could have hired help for the home or sent the kid to a boarding school. Not sure how having an affair is supposed to clear up her schedule, seems like it would add more work. As for not being able to have time for herself, apparently when it came time to plan and meet up with her lover suddenly she could find the hours to spare. Those included hours she could have spent reconnecting with her husband the day after their anniversary, for example, when she chose to spend with her lover instead, before picking up her son right after having slept with another man.
Again, if the roles were reversed and this was a Wall Street banker living on the job, working 80 hour weeks, we wouldn't be excusing his months of deception due to "stress". Reconsidering gender roles is its own issue where I am in complete agreement, but that's a separate problem. You cannot seriously suggest that her being tired is a reason for deliberately deceiving her husband for six months and destroying two families (that's the other bit: she could have at least chosen an unattached lover, it's not only her husband she hurt, it's her lover's wife who never did anything wrong to her).
If the affair had not happened *and* she had talked to her husband about her problems *and* she wanted to leave because he did nothing to help her, I would fully sympathize. The fact of the matter is, she didn't even notice it, nor she told her husband about it, choosing instead to have an affair. This situation is similar to Crazy Rich Asian, where if not for the cheating, I would have fully simpathized with the fight against the family's classism, but after the cheating this all became besides the point.
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Lc
November 22, 2016 at 4:29 AM
Totally agree with you about hyun woo. He may say that his life and challenges are hard for him, but it's on a totally different level compared to soo yeon's. His problems are related to physical and mental fatigue from having to hold a job and helping around the house. But these are also problems for all soo yeon, who on top of that the responsibility of managing their son's education and emotional well being falls solely on her shoulders. Otherwise why is she the one who has to suck up to the other mothers for her son's benefit?
The divide is already pronounced when hyun woo in last episode had the gall to tell his wife that her being pushed aroundby the other mothers was due to her wanting to look superior to non working mothers, and that it's ALL her fault her son is being excluded socially. Come on, this is the sort of thing only an insensitive husband or one who's deluded about his level of involvement would say. A really involved husband would work out a solution with his wife instead of just pointing fingers at her when he sees a problem.
Sorry if I come across as ranting, because hyun woo's speech last episode hit a nerve with me because I heard one in a similar vein years ago from my dad to my mum. Lucky for her my mum had a comeback which shut up my dad for good. But soo yeon has yet to learn it, poor thing.
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thatstp
November 22, 2016 at 8:29 PM
Completely agree however I think that it's not that Soo Yeon hasn't learned to have a voice. She seems to be taking all of Hyun Woo's abuse because she feels she deserves it. She knows she was wrong and is just trying to take her punishment.
By the end of this episode and the next I completely lost all sympathy, though I admit I didn't have much, for Hyun Woo. I understand that he is hurt but to degrade and verbally attack Soo Yeon the way his does is ridiculous. Then he has the audacity to be surprised and offended that she decided to file for divorce.
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 12:41 PM
I can't really think of anything more morally bankrupt to say than this. It's completely backwards. "I don't want to excuse", then proceed to make excuses. "I understand... but...". No, you obviously don't. I am not making like of the condition by calling that autistic screetching: this is basically lacking theory of mind. That ought to become the next "I am not racist, but". It's sure to be followed by grandstanding bs, diminishing, euphemizing weasel words and facts spinning. Oh, and victim blaming, too. I find the lack of empathy for the protagonist to be kind of unbelievable. *Everyone* would react like that in their position, something they would have to admit were they not too busy monday-morning-quarterbacking (by contrast, most people wouldn't deceive someone they love for half a year).
First of all, there is no comparison between what they did, but the order of severity is tilted in the other direction. She betrayed his trust, humiliated him and lied to his face for the last half a year, without caring about how it would affect him or their child, and would have continued doing so, had he not caught her red handed. Nothing he could say to her could even come close to humiliating and hurting her in a comparable way. That's simply not the moral equivalent of what she did.
I view things like physical abuse as points of no return in a relationship. Lying to someone to his face for month on end is on that spectrum. In divorce law, there is a concept of "fault divorce". Cruelty (phisical abuse) and adultery being fault conditions. It's on a different moral scale, and just like I wouldn't put "he hit her, but she is always verbally attacking him", I wouldn't put a verbal fight with another person on the same level of breaking someone's trust and humiliating deceiving him for months on end. She was tired and he wasn't perfect. You might argue with someone and be both at fault. If he punches you in the face, he can't blame it on the argument, it was his choice.
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 12:42 PM
Lastly, there is the fact that *just* discovered it. This is something that just happened. He has every right to be angry at her. If you treat someone like shit, you can't complain that they treat you like shit in return. It's in no way unjust or unfair, you reap what you sow. Or, put otherwise, it's perfectly fair for him to be unfair in this circumstance. It's not rocket sience, if you put people through this kind of pain, you can't expect them to like you and treat you well. It's like grieving after a funeral, people don't have the right to expect you to crack jokes on the return trip to the cemetery. You can't betray, humiliate and deceive someone, and then expect them to treat you civilly, as if nothing happened.
I am not against them splitting up, but it's completely absurd that she would be the one asking for divorce (after hurting and deceiving him as she did, she can't exactly be outraged that he would tell her at any change how low of a person he think she is... she had his trust, she squandered it, now she can't complain that he won't trust her and always think the worse of her -she gave him ample reason to make it logical to prefer that heuristic-) when it should be him that doesn't want anything to do with her anymore. Though, of course, he should jump at the chance.
matrice
October 19, 2018 at 12:43 PM
"Everyone is exhausted" and "everyone lives that way" are completely fair statements. That he may or may not be part of that "everyone" does in no way constitute a "problem", a claim's truth doesn't change based on who states it (besides, while an unappreciative asshole, he is not lazying on the couch all day contributing nothing). I might be a billionaire and argue that being short of money doesn't entitle anyone to rob a bank. There is no contradiction in that.
Also being an unhappreciative asshole might mean you deserve her to leave you. It doesn't mean you deserve to have your trust betrayed, and to be lied to your face. You are not owed love, but you are owed the bare minimum of honesty and respect. He was not perfect. Does this mean he deserved to be cheated on? No. Let alone deserve, is her reaction a justifiable leap from the sorvable initial problem of bad communication? No. Making him cook would make him a better husband, but it doesn't mean he would be any more or less deserving of being hurt, humiliated and deceived the way he was. There is simply no proportionality.
The post above basically concede his point. without apparently realizing that it destroys his ad-hominem argument. Working women that have to take care of the house are overworked, assholes husbands help less than they should and he was actually one of the "good ones" in that, while being an unappreciative asshole that took her for granted, he did have a job and helped a little. That's basically the claim he was making, and you will notice that it's not as if people generally respond by having affairs. That's because it's not a reasonable way to respond.
Having to deal with stresses and issues doesn't give you a free pass to hurt, humiliate and deceive people who love you and have not hurt you in any way. We understand the path from A to B, and call people that behave like that, taking their frustrations out on others, assholes. She feels that her excuse for her affair is invalid for a very good reason: because it is (for the reason explained by her husband and that you yourself confirmed).
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 12:43 PM
Let alone working women, life balance is something people in general struggle with. People need to take their minds off their concerns. They might consider better time management, exercise or meditation. There is no justifiable leap from that to betraying your husband, humiliating him and lying to his face for half a year, it's simply not one of the available options. Plus, a lover doesn't add extra hours. In the time she spent with him she could have just as easily gotten some me-time doing yoga.
Ultimately, I take issue with calling her exhaustion, or lack of communication (that they both contibuted to... he should have been more attentive, but he can't be expected to be a mind reader), or any of their issues, which could have legitimely lead to a breakup, the "reason" or "excuse" for her action. She did what she did because she chose to. Saying to life is hard is banally true. If you are hungry, you can either beat up someone and steal his food, or go to a restaurant. There are the circumstance, and there are choices to deal with them. What you do doesn't depend on the circumstance, but on the choice. Most people would have chosen differently.
If you are in an argument, you can be both in the wrong. If you escalate by throwing a punch, then you can't refer back to the discussion and say that you were both in the wrong about the previous argument. The punch is a separate thing, and only the assaulter is responsible for his own actions. He doesn't get to claim that "he started it", he is not in kindergarden. The same way I wouldn't excuse domestic violence on the grounds of stresses and misunderstanding, I wouldn't accept those as justifications for humiliating and deceiving a person for months on end. He has the right to act morally superior in this istance because on balance, while an asshole, he is.
matrice
October 19, 2018 at 1:15 PM
She is right in feeling that she deserves his anger and condemnation. If you broke someone's trust and lie to his face for half a year, you don't get to act morally outraged when they tell you in minutious details how giant of an asshole you are. You nod and shut the fuck up, unless you are even more of an entitled, shameless scumbag than your previous actions would already indicate. Him doing what he did today in normal circumstances? A giant asshole. Him doing that after having just caught his wife red handed, and discovered a six month long trail of deception, betrayal and humiliation? Perfectly within the range of what any normal person would expect. It doesn't make you one bit morally bankrupt to be an angry asshole after such a discovery, any more than not willing to crack a joke after a funeral makes you morose. There is also the fact that taking care of the child is also her resposibility, and he fucked up this time... who knows if he might have something on his mind? Wink wink.
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 1:32 PM
I would say that after the kind of betrayal, humiliation and deception she subjected him to, the word "audacity" should apply to anyone who doesn't understand how one that just discovered all that might be pissed off and prone to searching verbal altercation, and a chance to tell you exactly what kind of lying scum you are, at any chance. It's not ridiculous, but perfectly understandable, that he would try and fail to express his anger. Fail because whatever he does, he really can't ever come close to cause her a fraction of the pain and humiliation she caused him with her intentional cations, while conversely, she could do housework for the rest of her life and not even come close to making up for what she did. Let's just say that while I think that it would be perfect that she leaves, it's kind of baffling that it wouldn't be him who leaves first. If you compare the level of emotional paint they caused to each other, there is a chasm that can't be filled, and it's certainly not him that stands at the top. They are not on equal ground. This behavior would be unacceptable in general, but not after having just learned what he did -to call it ridiculous or audacious, and act all shocked and appalled as if there was no clear explanation is sight is completely socially retarder and idiotic-. This is not day zero, him verbally attacking her for no reason. It might not be the reason in question (it's not really about the specific trigger), but it is a damn good reason.
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[email protected]
October 19, 2018 at 2:12 PM
She betrayed his trust, humiliated him in the worst way possible and lied to his face for half a year, without caring how it would affect him or their child (so much for "putting them first").
She was overworked, partly because of choices she made. He took her for granted and didn't support her enough. He was also not a mind reader. They had problems communicating. Those are simple problems of work life balance that, as he pointed out, basically everybody has (he should have been more attentive, and while she did chose her lifestyle, there is no reason they couldn't have rescheduled it so that she could enjoy work, home life and alone-time).He loved his wife. He took her somewhat for granted. He could have been more attentive. He did help out occasionally, but not enough. Now that he has discovered that he had been led by the nose for the last six months, he is angry and wants to verbally provoke his wife. He is basically lashing out, and it's not really about the trigger, but about what she did to him. One has to point out that he has just discovered the betrayal, humiliation and deception by catching her red handed, so it's not exactly inexcusable that he might be filled with anger.
Now, when I see people saying things like "yes, she did cheat but" or "yes, he is hurting but", I think that they are either insane or hypocritical assholes. There is no place on Earth where the emotional trauma of learning that you had been deceived for the last half a year is morally equivalent to having angry outbusts after learning that fact. It's basically an objective truths that there is no universe where her actions are "understandable" and he is completely unsympathetic because he is angry. The differences are many. For starters, these are qualitatively different acts in terms of severity, quantifiable as the emotional harm caused to the person. Then there is the fact that him being angry with her is completely within reason and a perfectly justifiable response. I can essentially guarantee that none of the smug assholes currently finger-pointing as monday armchair quarterbacks would react the same way, if not worse. We are human beings, so it's not believable that keyboard warriors will proclaim Christological equanimity and feign outrage. By the same token, I can almost guarantee that no one would act like she did, this is empirically proven by the fact that in the modern world most people have busy lives, and yet most people don't betray and deceive the people who love them.
Also, regarding the "putting him and the kid first". I would say that six months of not giving a damn about the way her actions would affect her husband and child are more than enough to make the contrary case in terms of selfishness. You can eat vegetables all days for years, but if you eat cows for six months, there is no way you can pretend to be a vegetarian. I think that this is the morally normal way to approach the situation, and I can't really...
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 2:13 PM
Also, regarding the "putting him and the kid first". I would say that six months of not giving a damn about the way her actions would affect her husband and child are more than enough to make the contrary case in terms of selfishness. You can eat vegetables all days for years, but if you eat cows for six months, there is no way you can pretend to be a vegetarian. I think that this is the morally normal way to approach the situation, and I can't really empathize not only with her characters, but also with some of the comments. It's like saying, yes, she did torture and shoot the dog, but there's worse, her husband passed when the light was red. Err... the first is much, much worse than the latter?
matrice
October 19, 2018 at 2:16 PM
Sure, the perfect housewife, she only humiliated and lied to his face for the last half a year. And Hannibal Lecter is a perfect host, he just has a little problem in that he eats people, the small things people do. On the other hand, that asshole clearly played the violin horribly, probably he kind of deserved what he got.
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 3:22 PM
I really get irritated to see those things discussed in the same breath, as if lying to someone's face for six months straight, betraying and humiliating him, would be somewhat comparable to . I think that we wouldn't be talking about this if it was something more openly cruel like outright domestic abuse. But in my eyes, it's a morally unacceptable behavior on the same continuum. Meaning that it's *really* fucked up, not *a little* fucked up. It's not a verbal fight or beign oblivious to someone's issues. I also have to note that Sun Woo was the *only* one that noticed (her son and her other friends were equally oblivious, which to me makes your unfairly critical assessment of her husband -coupled with a weasly, slithery minimizing of her actions- dubious at best). Also, you probably don't have teenage kids, or your assumption that you should be able to perfectly understand and introspect someone you love if you just chose to, even if they don't tell you anything, impossible to mantain without laughing. abba
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 5:35 PM
To complete the metaphor, I would say that the guy suffers from a variant of battered wife syndrome. He was better than the other husband, which puts things in perspective... I mean, not that we want to follow the lowest common denominator, but the charge against him from some commenters (and himself) is *literally* that he is not perfect. If this he was one of my female friends I would seriously be worried about what else she would be willing to accept from the relationship while being paralyzed by self blame and holding herself to an absurd standard (and excusing away the boyfriend's behavior). He is in no physical risk, but it's basically the same attitude and the same dynamic of unreasonable expectations and being unable to let go of a toxic situation.
matrice
October 19, 2018 at 5:38 PM
This refers to the him in the future, not to the relatively, if not introspective, one we see here
matrice
October 19, 2018 at 7:20 PM
I truly hope that the people who are making this false equivalence that they said it here first: unless you are perfect, don't bother hoping for any sliver of honesty or respect. Hope they can sing the same tune something similar happens to them in the future. Maybe the will discover that they, too, are not perfect
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matrice
April 4, 2022 at 8:11 AM
I agree with the assessment that this is not how they normally interacted, this is made explicit in the first episodes where they talk about them never fighting.
Again, let's please remember that he had just discovered the person he believed to be the perfect woman had been deceiving him for the past six months, and after being discovered wanted to make him an accomplice in the deception of her lover's wife. Given she abused his unconditional trust, it's not a surprise that now he mistrust everything she says. He is angry and has every right to be. You would be too, as would I, and everyone else. Who claims the contrary is a hypocrite speaking from their couch from a position of moral superiority they don't have. And she is absolutely correct in feeling that she deserves such anger.
Frankly speaking, I think he is "improving" (from your point of view) or "devolving" (from mine), in that this chapter he apologized for having a fantasy to a woman that hurt/humiliated/betrayed him for six months and asked whether that was the reason for her cheating as revenge (absolutely absurd).
That said, he did help around the house and with the kid, and with the example of her lover I don't understand how he can be criticized as a husband. The man she was having an affair with had a wife and children, however bad her own husband might get, he was much better on the important things, such as the fact he would never cheat on her, as demonstrated by the fact that he does not sleep around even after her betrayal.
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matrice
April 4, 2022 at 12:11 PM
Let's be clear. Her lover is someone that cheated on his wife with a married woman with her own kids, and planned to deceive her indefinitely, not giving her the ability to make an informed choice. His wife is still faithful to him and will never betray him (in this respect she is like the protagonist, that would never cheat or betray his wife). The two lovers deserve each other -and a relationship of betrayals and deception-. Their cheated spouses deserve each other (or somebody like them), namely people that would never cheat or deceive them, and since they exist, it is clearly not an unreasonable requirement.
I will add that at least he has a good reason to be angry with her and treat her like an enemy, after the way she abused his trust. As her lover's wife demonstrated, even if hurt some people would never cheat.
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matrice
April 4, 2022 at 12:13 PM
Would really like to be a fly on the wall and check how some self righteous Monday morning quarterback in the comment section would behave if they were put in the same situation. Judging from her husband and her lover's wife's reactions, the righteous, justified anger does not seem to be gender specific.
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 12:31 PM
"Everyone is exhausted" and "everyone lives that way" are completely fair statements. That he may or may not be part of that "everyone" does in no way constitute a "problem", a claim's truth doesn't change based on who states it (besides, while an unappreciative asshole, he is not lazying on the couch all day contributing nothing). I might be a billionaire and argue that being short of money doesn't entitle anyone to rob a bank. There is no contradiction in that.
Also being an unhappreciative asshole might mean you deserve her to leave you. It doesn't mean you deserve to have your trust betrayed, and to be lied to your face. You are not owed love, but you are owed the bare minimum of honesty and respect. He was not perfect. Does this mean he deserved to be cheated on? No. Let alone deserve, is her reaction a justifiable leap from the sorvable initial problem of bad communication? No. Making him cook would make him a better husband, but it doesn't mean he would be any more or less deserving of being hurt, humiliated and deceived the way he was. There is simply no proportionality.
The post above basically concede his point. without apparently realizing that it destroys his ad-hominem argument. Working women that have to take care of the house are overworked, assholes husbands help less than they should and he was actually one of the "good ones" in that, while being an unappreciative asshole that took her for granted, he did have a job and helped a little. That's basically the claim he was making, and you will notice that it's not as if people generally respond by having affairs. That's because it's not a reasonable way to respond.
Having to deal with stresses and issues doesn't give you a free pass to hurt, humiliate and deceive people who love you and have not hurt you in any way. We understand the path from A to B, and call people that behave like that, taking their frustrations out on others, assholes. She feels that her excuse for her affair is invalid for a very good reason: because it is (for the reason explained by her husband and that you yourself confirmed).
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 12:33 PM
Let alone working women, life balance is something people in general struggle with. People need to take their minds off their concerns. They might consider better time management, exercise or meditation. There is no justifiable leap from that to betraying your husband, humiliating him and lying to his face for half a year, it's simply not one of the available options. Plus, a lover doesn't add extra hours. In the time she spent with him she could have just as easily gotten some me-time doing yoga.
Ultimately, I take issue with calling her exhaustion, or lack of communication (that they both contibuted to... he should have been more attentive, but he can't be expected to be a mind reader), or any of their issues, which could have legitimely lead to a breakup, the "reason" or "excuse" for her action. She did what she did because she chose to. Saying to life is hard is banally true. If you are hungry, you can either beat up someone and steal his food, or go to a restaurant. There are the circumstance, and there are choices to deal with them. What you do doesn't depend on the circumstance, but on the choice. Most people would have chosen differently.
If you are in an argument, you can be both in the wrong. If you escalate by throwing a punch, then you can't refer back to the discussion and say that you were both in the wrong about the previous argument. The punch is a separate thing, and only the assaulter is responsible for his own actions. He doesn't get to claim that "he started it", he is not in kindergarden. The same way I wouldn't excuse domestic violence on the grounds of stresses and misunderstanding, I wouldn't accept those as justifications for humiliating and deceiving a person for months on end. He has the right to act morally superior in this istance because on balance, while an asshole, he is.
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 1:18 PM
1) he was an unappreciative asshole.
2) for the betrayal itself, it *was* all her fault. If two people argue and both are in the wrong, but then one escalates the confrontation and physically assaults the other, he can't refer back to the argument and claim that it was because of that. He chose to escalate.
If he was such an asshole, she could and should have left him. But she owed him the basic honesty and respect to not break his trust and lie to his face for half a year.
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 3:24 PM
I really get irritated to see those things discussed in the same breath, as if lying to someone's face for six months straight, betraying and humiliating him, would be somewhat comparable to . I think that we wouldn't be talking about this if it was something more openly cruel like outright domestic abuse. But in my eyes, it's a morally unacceptable behavior on the same continuum. Meaning that it's *really* fucked up, not *a little* fucked up. It's not a verbal fight or beign oblivious to someone's issues. I also have to note that Sun Woo was the *only* one that noticed (her son and her other friends were equally oblivious, which to me makes your unfairly critical assessment of her husband -coupled with a weasly, slithery minimizing of her actions- dubious at best). Also, you probably don't have teenage kids, or your assumption that you should be able to perfectly understand and introspect someone you love if you just chose to, even if they don't tell you anything, impossible to mantain without laughing.
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 5:36 PM
To complete the metaphor, I would say that the guy suffers from a variant of battered wife syndrome. He was better than the other husband, which puts things in perspective... I mean, not that we want to follow the lowest common denominator, but the charge against him from some commenters (and himself) is *literally* that he is not perfect. If this he was one of my female friends I would seriously be worried about what else she would be willing to accept from the relationship while being paralyzed by self blame and holding herself to an absurd standard (and excusing away the boyfriend's behavior). He is in no physical risk, but it's basically the same attitude and the same dynamic of unreasonable expectations and being unable to let go of a toxic situation.
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 5:38 PM
This refers to the him in the future, not to the relatively, if not introspective, one we see here
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 3:25 PM
She betrayed his trust, humiliated him in the worst way possible and lied to his face for half a year, without caring how it would affect him or their child (so much for "putting them first").
She was overworked, partly because of choices she made. He took her for granted and didn't support her enough. He was also not a mind reader. They had problems communicating. Those are simple problems of work life balance that, as he pointed out, basically everybody has (he should have been more attentive, and while she did chose her lifestyle, there is no reason they couldn't have rescheduled it so that she could enjoy work, home life and alone-time).He loved his wife. He took her somewhat for granted. He could have been more attentive. He did help out occasionally, but not enough. Now that he has discovered that he had been led by the nose for the last six months, he is angry and wants to verbally provoke his wife. He is basically lashing out, and it's not really about the trigger, but about what she did to him. One has to point out that he has just discovered the betrayal, humiliation and deception by catching her red handed, so it's not exactly inexcusable that he might be filled with anger.
Now, when I see people saying things like "yes, she did cheat but" or "yes, he is hurting but", I think that they are either insane or hypocritical assholes. There is no place on Earth where the emotional trauma of learning that you had been deceived for the last half a year is morally equivalent to having angry outbusts after learning that fact. It's basically an objective truths that there is no universe where her actions are "understandable" and he is completely unsympathetic because he is angry. The differences are many. For starters, these are qualitatively different acts in terms of severity, quantifiable as the emotional harm caused to the person. Then there is the fact that him being angry with her is completely within reason and a perfectly justifiable response. I can essentially guarantee that none of the smug assholes currently finger-pointing as monday armchair quarterbacks would react the same way, if not worse. We are human beings, so it's not believable that keyboard warriors will proclaim Christological equanimity and feign outrage. By the same token, I can almost guarantee that no one would act like she did, this is empirically proven by the fact that in the modern world most people have busy lives, and yet most people don't betray and deceive the people who love them.
Also, regarding the "putting him and the kid first". I would say that six months of not giving a damn about the way her actions would affect her husband and child are more than enough to make the contrary case in terms of selfishness. You can eat vegetables all days for years, but if you eat cows for six months, there is no way you can pretend to be a vegetarian. I think that this is the morally normal way to approach the situation, and I can't really...
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 3:26 PM
Also, regarding the "putting him and the kid first". I would say that six months of not giving a damn about the way her actions would affect her husband and child are more than enough to make the contrary case in terms of selfishness. You can eat vegetables all days for years, but if you eat cows for six months, there is no way you can pretend to be a vegetarian. I think that this is the morally normal way to approach the situation, and I can't really empathize not only with her characters, but also with some of the comments. It's like saying, yes, she did torture and shoot the dog, but there's worsAlso, regarding the "putting him and the kid first". I would say that six months of not giving a damn about the way her actions would affect her husband and child are more than enough to make the contrary case in terms of selfishness. You can eat vegetables all days for years, but if you eat cows for six months, there is no way you can pretend to be a vegetarian. I think that this is the morally normal way to approach the situation, and I can't really empathize not only with her characters, but also with some of the comments. It's like saying, yes, she did torture and shoot the dog, but there's worse, her husband passed when the light was red. Err... the first is much, much worse than the latter?e, her husband passed when the light was red. Err... the first is much, much worse than the latter?
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 7:20 PM
I truly hope that the people who are making this false equivalence that they said it here first: unless you are perfect, don't bother hoping for any sliver of honesty or respect. Hope they can sing the same tune something similar happens to them in the future. Maybe the will discover that they, too, are not perfect. Assholes.
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matrice
April 4, 2022 at 7:59 AM
This is hogwash. I agree on the merit of the comments on her motivations, but he has just discovered that she lied to him for the past half a year, so obviously he is reacting in anger and wouldn't say the same things in a normal circumstance. And frankly, after what she did to him I would hope that she would keep the "comeback" for herself: his opinion of her has gone from "perfect woman" to "serial liar". It's unfair, but perfectly understandable given the circumstances.
Regarding the "sucking up" point, he put it crudely, but he is right on the fact of the matter: she has no obligation to pander to them, and that's exactly one of those "non essential" committment that she has chosen and should discard.
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vas140030
November 22, 2016 at 1:06 PM
I agree on how Soo Yeon has to do more than Hyun Woo does because that's how a mother's "supposed" to behave and agree that that can and does completely exhaust her but I will never understand how she didn't say anything to him. Her expectation that he'll just know is pretty ridiculous because how can he just know? It just doesn't make sense to me that her next choice of action was to cheat instead of telling him what was wrong especially since we saw him ask her if she was upset/angry in the first ep after he couldn't pick up the kid and she just smiled and said everything was okay. That's why I can't really feel sympathetic to her.
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blnmom
November 22, 2016 at 3:47 PM
I do not in any way condone her cheating.
But I have a feeling that she probably did try to tell him before that she needed more help around the house and with the kid, and he just wrote her off, so she just stopped trying. Now she's dead tired of trying, and she knows it's not an excuse for cheating anyway, so she just wants to end it.
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 12:38 PM
Actually, we can't really know that, and from what I have seen I get the opposite vibe (in any case, he is not a mind reader). But I think that he did somewhat take her for granted, if you see the way he forgot their anniversary and expected her to cook for him. He could have been nicer and more appreciative. That doesn't mean that he deserved to be lied to and deceived for months, there is simply no moral equivalence there. And, as I said before, when thinking about work life balance most people imagine yoga or exercising. An affair doesn't add more work week, and nothing stopped her from using the hours spent with her lover for some me-time.
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matrice
April 4, 2022 at 10:04 AM
"Hyun-woo is understandably frustrated, saying that he thought they were doing well"
"Soo-yeon answers that she thought they were doing well too"
"she went out of her way to smile and be relaxed "
"she wasn’t particularly happy or unhappy."
"Soo-yeon finishes, saying that she knows it isn’t an excuse"
"Hyun-woo asks if she had an affair because he didn’t notice how tired she was"
"ends up just apologizing again, saying that she should have told him she was having a hard time. Still, she cries that she can’t face him anymore,"
No, that is not the case (see quotes above), that's not up to debate as it was clearly addressed in the episode you (supposedly) just watched, so it's not really a guess game or a matter of interpretation: she explicitely states this. She did not even realize she needed help, and when she did, rather than talking to him about it she chose to deceive him. This is all new to him.
Also, please realize that they are having this conversation in a context. This is not some out of context discussion of societal ills, etc., it's a conversation they are having about the reasons she chose to deceive him for the past half year. He has only recently learned that the "perfect woman" of his dreams has lied to his face for the past six months. He is understandably, justifiably angry, as any one of us would be (the hypocrites pontificating in the comment sections would be much worse), and the fact that she abused his unconditional trust is obviously coloring his outlook.
In the first episodes they made it clear than they basically never argued, so they did not have discussions in such a confrontational/judgemental tone, and we see her smiling, etc. when he tried asking her how she was. For that matter, he tried to convince her to take some time for them to reconnect the day after their anniversary, but she lied to him and went to sleep with her lover (planning to pick up her kid afterwards, might I add).
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 12:34 PM
That, and the fact that there is simply no proportionality between being an unappreciative asshole and deceiving someone for six months.
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matrice
April 4, 2022 at 10:13 AM
"Hyun-woo is understandably frustrated, saying that he thought they were doing well"
"Soo-yeon answers that she thought they were doing well too"
"she went out of her way to smile and be relaxed "
"she wasn’t particularly happy or unhappy."
"Soo-yeon finishes, saying that she knows it isn’t an excuse"
"Hyun-woo asks if she had an affair because he didn’t notice how tired she was"
"ends up just apologizing again, saying that she should have told him she was having a hard time. Still, she cries that she can’t face him anymore,"
From the quotes above, I agree, but I don't think that this was her expectation, she clearly knows that she should have told him (you are being influenced by the idiotic comments in the comment sections, because she is not attacking him for not knowing something that he couldn't have known, as she herself didn't realize it and when she did she chose to have an affair rather than talking to him -actually, she continued to smile and lie, and chose to spend time with her lover instead of taking time to reconnect with her husband the day after her divorce, so much for lack of time-).
Still not sure how adding a lover to the mix would have improved the situation (one would think it would just make things more hectic). In terms of what she wants to do, it's not as if she made any change to her schedule or looked for a job with better work/life balance. Strangely enough, when it came time to plan/schedule/meet up with her lover she was able to "magically" find the required hours, so not sure why she couldn't have spent the same time she put into the affair into some other leisure activity. In other words, not sure how this all makes sense.
Still, I am equally unsympathetic with respect to the affair. I get and agree with the societal point. But if she was a Wall Street banker working 80 hours a week, we would never accept this as an excuse. Look at Crazy Rich Asian's cheating story: I agree that the guy was victim of a classist family that looked down on him for his birth, but that didn't excuse the cheating and her wife correctly dumped him, telling that it was not her job to make him something he is not (a man). Not to mention that she had an affair with a married man, not someone unattached. If you are telling me that "stress" is a reason to deceive and destroy two families (would have been okay with continuing to deceive his wife and asked her husband to be their accomplice), than I would conclude you have not taken your medication.
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marice
April 5, 2022 at 6:30 AM
The "stress" explanation is pretty leaky, and I would wish to see addressed questions such as "why did you continue the affair then"... he offered to spend some time together to reconnect after their anniversary, why didn't she take him up on his offer, if the issue was a lack of "me time"?
Basically, granting the stress and the affair (though I have my doubts about what it did for her, as her schedule if anything became more hectic), the "will continue the affair and will keep lying to my husband indefinitely" part does not logically follow. Among other things, where is the guilt? After being discovered, she couldn't stand looking at his face, but before she had no issue looking him in the eyes and lying to him. And they broke off the affair super easy afterwards, so clearly they were not into a Hymn of Death "till death do us part" mode.
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AsianDrama16
November 22, 2016 at 2:04 PM
@Mint25 @amarawrrr
Agree with you. Hyunwoo is apparently the sympathetic character, but, in fact, he comes across as arrogant and shallow. As you've both said, Sooyeon is actually the victim in a society with a double standard that severely penalizes women for wanting both a career and a family. Her husband, who should be the most supportive, is simply an extension of society's expectations. When she meets a man who seems to appreciate her, he becomes her sanctuary, and she falls for him. The dramatic irony, which makes this story somewhat interesting, is the fact that Sooyeon, too, doesn't fully understand her motives and feels guilty. The real culprit in this drama, by extension, is the audience, who are part of a society that has no sympathy for women.
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romamama
November 24, 2016 at 10:42 AM
I agree with everything that has been said regarding Soo Yeon and how she's been forced into a tight corner by the expectations/ double standards of society. Also, I would like to point out that this expectation of a women's role compared to a man's role is a key theme that has been presented throughout the series. From Bo Young asking the question of why men are so easily forgiven when they cheat compared to women, to why there is the theme that when a wife cheats that the husband should feel ashamed of being cheated on (because he wasn't the one who cheated instead). Why is it, as Hyun Woo's mom has emphasized, that just because Soo Yeon is a mother that she has less right to choose for herself what she wants? Soo Yeon as a character is so tied down by all the roles that she has to play constantly - perhaps some might bash her for choosing to 'cheat', but it was her way of taking a little control back into her life. And she's still under pressure to hide it - because society puts monogamy on a pedestal. Right now, I just hope Soo Yeon doesn't give a shit about what anyone thinks (whether to give up the marriage or to stay on), and make the best decision that is for herself.
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matrice
April 4, 2022 at 10:43 AM
This is evasion. I agree with everything regarding society's ills, but the solution is for men to be held to the same standard, not to normalize and condone deception, which, by the way, hurt also a woman (her lover's wife), who she was more than happy to see him continue to deceive, treating her as an object without giving her the ability to make her own choices.
Monogamy is not the issue here, for the matter the series, on the contrary, has a very conservative feel on this (criminalizing even having a fantasy, in this chapter). You can have fantasies and even have sex with other people (open marriages, polyamory) and not have cheating. The issue is not the sex, but the abuse of her husband's unconditional trust, as well as the fact that she was willing to risk destroying two families over a superficial whim.
As for the interpretation of control, we know that this is not the case, it's not up to debate, because her motivations have been clearly laid out in the episode, she lied to her husband about how she was, she didn't realize she was tired, and when she realized it she chose to have an affair rather than talking to him... obviously having a lover didn't clear up the schedule (if anything it made it more busy), though suspiciously she could always find time for the affair (time that by her own words she was not supposed to have, among other things time she could have spent reconnecting with her husband, for example the day after her anniversary, as he proposed), and she did't change anything about her schedule (we see her as busy as ever). Point is, by her own admission she did have alternatives, this was not her *only choice*, and she fully realizes that she could and should have discussed this with her husband instead, this is not up for debate as it was explained clearly in this episode (that you supposedly watched):
"Hyun-woo is understandably frustrated, saying that he thought they were doing well"
"Soo-yeon answers that she thought they were doing well too"
"she went out of her way to smile and be relaxed "
"she wasn’t particularly happy or unhappy."
"Soo-yeon finishes, saying that she knows it isn’t an excuse"
"Hyun-woo asks if she had an affair because he didn’t notice how tired she was"
"ends up just apologizing again, saying that she should have told him she was having a hard time. Still, she cries that she can’t face him anymore,"
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matrice
April 4, 2022 at 10:49 AM
I can agree with the societal criticism without it making any difference with respect to the deception. In "Crazy Rich Asians" I completely understood the cheating husbands' points about his insecurities and his wife's family's classism. He remained a scumbag for cheating on her, and she correctly kicked him in the curb.
Factually speaking the "control" theory is mistaken, she acknowledges that she lied to her husband about how she felt, she didn't realize the had a problem herself, and when she understood it she chose to cheat rather than talk about the issue with her husband (they didn't have fights, so the confrontation would not go like this, when he is angry and sees her as the enemy after discovering her deception).
Monogamy has nothing to do with this. Ethical non monogamy still does not condone cheating. The issue here is not having fantasies or even having sex with other people, the issue is that she lied to his face for half a year and would still be deceiving him (as well as her lover's wife, who did not do anything to her, and that she wanted to continue to fool, taking away *her* choice and *her* control over her life's direction and ability to make an informed choice, even after her husband discovered her affair... so much for female solidarity and a feminist critique -not sure that a show that finds fantasies unacceptable and fails to distinguish between thoughts and actions (thought crimes, anyone?) would be on board with an anti-monogamy critique of society, this is not the show we are watching-).
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marice
April 4, 2022 at 10:52 AM
I mean, let's be clear about it. I don't see anyone justifying a high powered Wall Street exec deceiving their spouse on "stress". And with all due respect, they had *one* kid. There are families with two, three, four children where both parents work. There are single parents with multiple children and three jobs. She is having it better than many. If stress led to deception and broken families, no Marissa Meyer like CEO would be able to have any relationship.
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matrice
April 4, 2022 at 10:55 AM
"Hyun-woo is understandably frustrated, saying that he thought they were doing well"
"Soo-yeon answers that she thought they were doing well too"
"she went out of her way to smile and be relaxed "
"she wasn’t particularly happy or unhappy."
"Soo-yeon finishes, saying that she knows it isn’t an excuse"
"Hyun-woo asks if she had an affair because he didn’t notice how tired she was"
"ends up just apologizing again, saying that she should have told him she was having a hard time. Still, she cries that she can’t face him anymore,"
I disagree with the characterization of the lover. From the quotes, when around her husband she always smiled and lied (even recently right before discovering the affair), and *neither* of them realized something was wrong. He happened to see her "defenceless" and they started an affair (not that she changed anything in her life or priorities, so I am not sure what the point of thinking about what made her happy was, not to mention that she was the one that chose all these commitments -some superfluous like the mom chat- in the first place). I find it insulting to compare the guy to her husband. The guy would have deceived his own wife indefinitely, robbing her of the ability to make her own choice and essentially treating her like property he owned, like he was entitled to have her in her life without giving the ability to make a fully informed choice, as he would have if he respected her as an autonomous, equal individual.
He also summarily fired (rather than moving away from the project himself) his lover, who he claimed to love, and later told his wife that she was nothing, someone not worth meeting. The kind of snake like My Mister's villain, putting up a noble facade but really not being willing to give up anything -he does not leave his wife despite claiming to love another woman, then when things go south he does not come clean, he fires and badmouth his lover, plus all along he acts continue to act guilty/apologetic/chubby with someone whose wife he would be having sex with at that moment, had he not been caught, and this never translates in him actually choosing to be honest with his wife-.
He was certainly not a champion of women's rights, but someone that treated his wife as an object he was entitled to make decisions for (not even letting her know there was anything to decide). Plus, if we compare husbands, he was someone that betrayed his wife with a married woman with children of her own, and would have continued to lie and manipulate her. The protagonist instead never cheated on or deceived his wife, same as her lover's wife, and in fact they never slept with other people even after discovering the deception.
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matrice
April 4, 2022 at 11:05 AM
I completely disagree with chalking the deception up to society. The drama doesn't really draw a moral distinction between male and female cheating (she and her lover are treated the same in terms of the disgust the protagonist feels towards their actions towards their families, so if there are old perceptions they don't affect this particular case, the protagonist does not condone male cheating... I think that I would have like to see a feminist critique with the deceived wife blaming her husband and leaving him, and I think that her thinking she has to put up with him treating her as an object and not being honest with her and letting her make her own decisions might be tied to sexism).
Above all, it is patronizing to treat a grown woman, someone with agency, as if she was not personally responsible for her own actions, and she does not use society as an excuse in the drama:
"Hyun-woo is understandably frustrated, saying that he thought they were doing well"
"Soo-yeon answers that she thought they were doing well too"
"she went out of her way to smile and be relaxed "
"she wasn’t particularly happy or unhappy."
"Soo-yeon finishes, saying that she knows it isn’t an excuse"
I agree with society's critique in and of itself, apart from the monogamy bit (ethical non monogamy does not condone cheating either, it's about trust, and they both would have deceived their spouses indefinitely).
I also agree that she should have done what was best for herself, and if she thought it would have helped, *before* deceiving her spouse, she should have asked for a divorce. Note that here she is having issues facing her actions, it's not about him:
"ends up just apologizing again, saying that she should have told him she was having a hard time. Still, she cries that she can’t face him anymore,"
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matrice
April 4, 2022 at 2:01 PM
"why men are so easily forgiven when they cheat"
That might have been the case in the past, but clearly this is not an ubiquitous or even a majority opinion, and is not a concern in their particular circumstances, as her husband is not sexist in that way, consider what he thinks of his wife's lover, and the way he treats his cheating when talking about it with his wife:
“It’s not important why he cheated. What’s important is that he did cheat.”
Does it sound like what you said above? No.
"when a wife cheats that the husband should feel ashamed of being cheated on (because he wasn't the one who cheated instead)."
As shown above, the husband is perfectly gender neutral in his condemnation of deception, so he does not share this differential view. He also clearly does not wish to have "cheated first", this is so disconnected from actually happens in the episode that he even apologizes for a fantasy he had. Not sure this phrase actually applies to any real person, it does not even make sense... what does it mean, that if you are not going to be loyal then I wish I had been disloyal first? If this means that your partner was not worthy of your loyalty I would agree with this as a general statement, though of course you can't know the future so that's a moot point. I would say that revenge sex would be a "cheating" I approve of (like her lover's wife sleeping with someone else as revenge), though I wouldn't consider it cheating as their adulterous spouses had already broken that wow.
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matrice
April 4, 2022 at 10:32 AM
"Hyun-woo is understandably frustrated, saying that he thought they were doing well"
"Soo-yeon answers that she thought they were doing well too"
"she went out of her way to smile and be relaxed "
"she wasn’t particularly happy or unhappy."
"Soo-yeon finishes, saying that she knows it isn’t an excuse"
"Hyun-woo asks if she had an affair because he didn’t notice how tired she was"
"ends up just apologizing again, saying that she should have told him she was having a hard time. Still, she cries that she can’t face him anymore,"
Regarding the "arrogant and shallow", they are not having this conversation devoid of context, they are having the conversation in the context of him having just recently learned that the person he trusted unconditionally had been deceiving him for the past half a year. Obviously he is not perfectly calm, collected, gracious and completely fair. He is angry and in "fight mode", despite trying to understand. I would drop the condescending attitude because I and anyone else in this chat would be acting the same way (the self righteous Monday morning quarterbacks probably much worse).
I disagree with the characterization of the lover. From the quotes, when around her husband she always smiled and lied (even recently right before discovering the affair), and *neither* of them realized something was wrong. He happened to see her "defenceless" and they started an affair (not that she changed anything in her life or priorities, so I am not sure what the point of thinking about what made her happy was, not to mention that she was the one that chose all these commitments -some superfluous like the mom chat- in the first place). I find it insulting to compare the guy to her husband. The guy would have deceived his own wife indefinitely, robbing her of the ability to make her own choice and essentially treating her like property he owned, like he was entitled to have her in her life without giving the ability to make a fully informed choice, as he would have if he respected her as an autonomous, equal individual.
He also summarily fired (rather than moving away from the project himself) his lover, who he claimed to love, and later told his wife that she was nothing, someone not worth meeting. The kind of snake like My Mister's villain, putting up a noble facade but really not being willing to give up anything -he does not leave his wife despite claiming to love another woman, then when things go south he does not come clean, he fires and badmouth his lover, plus all along he acts continue to act guilty/apologetic/chubby with someone whose wife he would be having sex with at that moment, had he not been caught, and this never translates in him actually choosing to be honest with his wife-.
He was certainly not a champion of women's rights, but someone that treated his wife as an object he was entitled to make decisions for (not even letting her know there was anything to decide). Plus, if we...
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matrice
April 4, 2022 at 10:33 AM
Plus, if we compare husbands, he was someone that betrayed his wife with a married woman with children of her own, and would have continued to lie and manipulate her. The protagonist instead never cheated on or deceived his wife, same as her lover's wife, and in fact they never slept with other people even after discovering the deception.
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matrice
April 4, 2022 at 11:11 AM
I agree with society's critique in and of itself (and more... her lover claiming to love her but not leaving his wife, then firing her when it was inconvenient to have her around rather than go away himself, and badmouthing her to his wife). I completely disagree with chalking the deception up to society. The drama doesn't really draw a moral distinction between male and female cheating (she and her lover are treated the same in terms of the disgust the protagonist feels towards their actions towards their families, so if there are old perceptions they don't affect this particular case, the protagonist does not condone male cheating... I think that I would have like to see a feminist critique with the deceived wife blaming her husband and leaving him, and I think that her thinking she has to put up with him treating her as an object and not being honest with her and letting her make her own decisions might be tied to sexism).
Above all, it is patronizing to treat a grown woman, someone with agency, as if she was not personally responsible for her own actions, and she does not use society as an excuse in the drama. This is not feminism, it's treating women as inferior. I would have liked a feminist spin regarding her lover's wife, though: her kicking him to the curb and finding herself a lover, rather than putting up with him (including his attempt to continue deceiving her and robbing her of the ability to make an informed choice, a decision that to be completely clear the protagonist's wife was perfectly on board with, not that one should be surprised, considering she was sleeping with her husband, and that's pretty indicative of any absence of female solidarity here):
"Hyun-woo is understandably frustrated, saying that he thought they were doing well"
"Soo-yeon answers that she thought they were doing well too"
"she went out of her way to smile and be relaxed "
"she wasn’t particularly happy or unhappy."
"Soo-yeon finishes, saying that she knows it isn’t an excuse"
It's insane to claim that society has made her deceive her husband, and neither her nor the show make that absolutely crazy claim. It is also untrue that she did not have an option, she simply didn't realize she had a problem, and when she did she chose to cheat rather than talk about it with her husband. Note that here she is having issues facing her actions, it's not about him:
"ends up just apologizing again, saying that she should have told him she was having a hard time. Still, she cries that she can’t face him anymore,"
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matrice
April 4, 2022 at 12:17 PM
re: no sympathy for women
I would like to ask where was her sympathy for her lover's wife while she was having sex with her husband.
Frankly, I found rather revolting how, from the perspective of a woman, she could be onboard with the continue deception of her lover's wife. Not that she showed her any regard when she chose to have sex with her husband, despite knowing he was married and with children. But now they have been found out, and she is onboard with her lover continuing to deceive his wife, basically treating her like a puppet or a property he owns, as if he was entitled to be in her life. He takes away her ability to choose, not only not consulting her, but not even letting her know that she had a choice to make. He would continue to deceive her without letting her make an informed choice about such an important aspect of her own life as who to spend her life with.
I would have liked her lover's wife to focus more on this aspect of the situation, being treated as an object and not being allowed to make her own decisions. In the conversation with the protagonist, it's not clear to me that the fact that her husband essentially treated her as his property and would have never told her the truth has sunk in. I think that she might be influenced by sexist tendencies in society that normalize male cheating (not an ubiquitous or maybe not even prevailing point of view, the protagonist was clearly horrified) and in some sense she thinks she has to put up with it. I wish she could have made a stand and had the courage to assert that she deserves better, she would never cheat and so she deserves someone that is as committed as her and would treat her with honesty, showing her self respect and sense of self worth.
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 11:39 AM
I can't really think of anything more morally bankrupt to say than this. It's completely backwards. "I don't want to excuse", then proceed to make excuses. "I understand... but...". No, you obviously don't. I am not making like of the condition by calling that autistic screetching: this is basically lacking theory of mind. That ought to become the next "I am not racist, but". It's sure to be followed by grandstanding bs, diminishing, euphemizing weasel words and facts spinning. Oh, and victim blaming, too. I find the lack of empathy for the protagonist to be kind of unbelievable. *Everyone* would react like that in their position, something they would have to admit were they not too busy monday-morning-quarterbacking (by contrast, most people wouldn't deceive someone they love for half a year).
First of all, there is no comparison between what they did, but the order of severity is tilted in the other direction. She betrayed his trust, humiliated him and lied to his face for the last half a year, without caring about how it would affect him or their child, and would have continued doing so, had he not caught her red handed. Nothing he could say to her could even come close to humiliating and hurting her in a comparable way. That's simply not the moral equivalent of what she did.
I view things like physical abuse as points of no return in a relationship. Lying to someone to his face for month on end is on that spectrum. In divorce law, there is a concept of "fault divorce". Cruelty (phisical abuse) and adultery being fault conditions. It's on a different moral scale, and just like I wouldn't put "he hit her, but she is always verbally attacking him", I wouldn't put a verbal fight with another person on the same level of breaking someone's trust and humiliating deceiving him for months on end. She was tired and he wasn't perfect. You might argue with someone and be both at fault. If he punches you in the face, he can't blame it on the argument, it was his choice.
Lastly, there is the fact that *just* discovered it. This is something that just happened. He has every right to be angry at her. If you treat someone like shit, you can't complain that they treat you like shit in return. It's in no way unjust or unfair, you reap what you sow. Or, put otherwise, it's perfectly fair for him to be unfair in this circumstance. It's not rocket sience, if you put people through this kind of pain, you can't expect them to like you and treat you well. It's like grieving after a funeral, people don't have the right to expect you to crack jokes on the return trip to the cemetery. You can't betray, humiliate and deceive someone, and then expect them to treat you civilly, as if nothing happened.
I am not against them splitting up, but it's completely absurd that she would be the one asking for divorce (after hurting and deceiving him as she did, she can't exactly be outraged that he would tell her at any change how low...
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 1:04 PM
Lastly, there is the fact that *just* discovered it. This is something that just happened. He has every right to be angry at her. If you treat someone like shit, you can't complain that they treat you like shit in return. It's in no way unjust or unfair, you reap what you sow. Or, put otherwise, it's perfectly fair for him to be unfair in this circumstance. It's not rocket sience, if you put people through this kind of pain, you can't expect them to like you and treat you well. It's like grieving after a funeral, people don't have the right to expect you to crack jokes on the return trip to the cemetery. You can't betray, humiliate and deceive someone, and then expect them to treat you civilly, as if nothing happened.
I am not against them splitting up, but it's completely absurd that she would be the one asking for divorce (after hurting and deceiving him as she did, she can't exactly be outraged that he would tell her at any change how low of a person he think she is... she had his trust, she squandered it, now she can't complain that he won't trust her and always think the worse of her -she gave him ample reason to make it logical to prefer that heuristic-) when it should be him that doesn't want anything to do with her anymore. Though, of course, he should jump at the chance.
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 2:09 PM
She betrayed his trust, humiliated him in the worst way possible and lied to his face for half a year, without caring how it would affect him or their child (so much for "putting them first").
She was overworked, partly because of choices she made. He took her for granted and didn't support her enough. He was also not a mind reader. They had problems communicating. Those are simple problems of work life balance that, as he pointed out, basically everybody has (he should have been more attentive, and while she did chose her lifestyle, there is no reason they couldn't have rescheduled it so that she could enjoy work, home life and alone-time).
He loved his wife. He took her somewhat for granted. He could have been more attentive. He did help out occasionally, but not enough. Now that he has discovered that he had been led by the nose for the last six months, he is angry and wants to verbally provoke his wife. He is basically lashing out, and it's not really about the trigger, but about what she did to him. One has to point out that he has just discovered the betrayal, humiliation and deception by catching her red handed, so it's not exactly inexcusable that he might be filled with anger.
Now, when I see people saying things like "yes, she did cheat but" or "yes, he is hurting but", I think that they are either insane or hypocritical assholes. There is no place on Earth where the emotional trauma of learning that you had been deceived for the last half a year is morally equivalent to having angry outbusts after learning that fact. It's basically an objective truths that there is no universe where her actions are "understandable" and he is completely unsympathetic because he is angry. The differences are many. For starters, these are qualitatively different acts in terms of severity, quantifiable as the emotional harm caused to the person. Then there is the fact that him being angry with her is completely within reason and a perfectly justifiable response. I can essentially guarantee that none of the smug assholes currently finger-pointing as monday armchair quarterbacks would react the same way, if not worse. We are human beings, so it's not believable that keyboard warriors will proclaim Christological equanimity and feign outrage. By the same token, I can almost guarantee that no one would act like she did, this is empirically proven by the fact that in the modern world most people have busy lives, and yet most people don't betray and deceive the people who love them.
Also, regarding the "putting him and the kid first". You might be the nicest person in the world, and never argue with your wife, but if you get into a fight once and hit her, that's one time too many (this being relevant because cruelty and adultery are both valid causes for fault divonce, and to me are on a spectrum of unacceptable behavior the way, for example, storngly arguing verbally is not). You don't have to kill one person a day to be a...
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 3:27 PM
Also, regarding the "putting him and the kid first". I would say that six months of not giving a damn about the way her actions would affect her husband and child are more than enough to make the contrary case in terms of selfishness. You can eat vegetables all days for years, but if you eat cows for six months, there is no way you can pretend to be a vegetarian. I think that this is the morally normal way to approach the situation, and I can't really empathize not only with her characters, but also with some of the comments. It's like saying, yes, she did torture and shoot the dog, but there's worse, her husband passed when the light was red. Err... the first is much, much worse than the latter?
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 3:29 PM
She betrayed his trust, humiliated him in the worst way possible and lied to his face for half a year, without caring how it would affect him or their child (so much for "putting them first").
She was overworked, partly because of choices she made. He took her for granted and didn't support her enough. He was also not a mind reader. They had problems communicating. Those are simple problems of work life balance that, as he pointed out, basically everybody has (he should have been more attentive, and while she did chose her lifestyle, there is no reason they couldn't have rescheduled it so that she could enjoy work, home life and alone-time).He loved his wife. He took her somewhat for granted. He could have been more attentive. He did help out occasionally, but not enough. Now that he has discovered that he had been led by the nose for the last six months, he is angry and wants to verbally provoke his wife. He is basically lashing out, and it's not really about the trigger, but about what she did to him. One has to point out that he has just discovered the betrayal, humiliation and deception by catching her red handed, so it's not exactly inexcusable that he might be filled with anger.
Now, when I see people saying things like "yes, she did cheat but" or "yes, he is hurting but", I think that they are either insane or hypocritical assholes. There is no place on Earth where the emotional trauma of learning that you had been deceived for the last half a year is morally equivalent to having angry outbusts after learning that fact. It's basically an objective truths that there is no universe where her actions are "understandable" and he is completely unsympathetic because he is angry. The differences are many. For starters, these are qualitatively different acts in terms of severity, quantifiable as the emotional harm caused to the person. Then there is the fact that him being angry with her is completely within reason and a perfectly justifiable response. I can essentially guarantee that none of the smug assholes currently finger-pointing as monday armchair quarterbacks would react the same way, if not worse. We are human beings, so it's not believable that keyboard warriors will proclaim Christological equanimity and feign outrage. By the same token, I can almost guarantee that no one would act like she did, this is empirically proven by the fact that in the modern world most people have busy lives, and yet most people don't betray and deceive the people who love them.
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 3:29 PM
Also, regarding the "putting him and the kid first". I would say that six months of not giving a damn about the way her actions would affect her husband and child are more than enough to make the contrary case in terms of selfishness. You can eat vegetables all days for years, but if you eat cows for six months, there is no way you can pretend to be a vegetarian. I think that this is the morally normal way to approach the situation, and I can't really empathize not only with her characters, but also with some of the comments. It's like saying, yes, she did torture and shoot the dog, but there's worse, her husband passed when the light was red. Err... the first is much, much worse than the latter?
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 3:37 PM
I think that he is an unattentive asshole that doesn't appreciate his wife. I also think that it doesn't matter, because that is in no way comparable to how grave and sick betraying, humiliating and deceiving a person for six months is. Not being perfect does not mean that you are not entitled to the sliver of respect and honesty that it would take to talk to you about the issue (he is not a mind reader), or even leave you. He should exhamine his faults, but also put them into perspective. That's passing a stop sign without looking vs torturing and shooting a dog on the severity scale. It's stupidity and a bit of self centredness, it does not say much about him ethically, it's not heinous and immoral. Lying to someone while looking him in the eye for six months is.
I really get irritated to see their behaviors discussed in the same breath, as if lying to someone's face for six months straight, betraying and humiliating him, would be somewhat comparable to . I think that we wouldn't be talking about this if it was something more openly cruel like outright domestic abuse. But in my eyes, it's a morally unacceptable behavior on the same continuum. Meaning that it's *really* fucked up, not *a little* fucked up. It's not a verbal fight or beign oblivious to someone's issues. I also have to note that Sun Woo was the *only* one that noticed (her son and her other friends were equally oblivious, which to me makes your unfairly critical assessment of her husband -coupled with a weasly, slithery minimizing of her actions- dubious at best). Also, you probably don't have teenage kids, or your assumption that you should be able to perfectly understand and introspect someone you love if you just chose to, even if they don't tell you anything, impossible to mantain without laughing.
He should work on this, but for his next relationship, not to save his marriage. What she did was so not proportionate to whatever slight he might have committed that it's on another planet. You don't have to be perfect to be able to assume that the person you love won't willingly break your trust, humiliate you and deceive you -if you operate under that assumption, you don't really trust them, so there is no relationship to salvage there-.
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 5:40 PM
To complete the metaphor, I would say that the guy suffers from a variant of battered wife syndrome. He was better than the other husband, which puts things in perspective... I mean, not that we want to follow the lowest common denominator, but the charge against him from some commenters (and himself) is *literally* that he is not perfect. If this he was one of my female friends I would seriously be worried about what else she would be willing to accept from the relationship while being paralyzed by self blame and holding herself to an absurd standard (and excusing away the boyfriend's behavior). He is in no physical risk, but it's basically the same attitude and the same dynamic of unreasonable expectations and being unable to let go of a toxic situation. This refers to the him in the future, not to the relatively, if not introspective, one we see here.
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matrice
April 4, 2022 at 8:29 AM
I take that back: on second read he is behaving like this because he is hurt and angry, it's made pretty clear in the first episodes that she was the perfect woman for him and he adored her, he has become unappreciative now that she has abused his unconditional trust. He is speaking from a place of anger, and justified anger at that.
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 7:21 PM
Sometimes people get blindsided and think they know a person better than they do. This does not mean that their love isn't genuine, and a normal human being would have some understanding that even if people are a bit arrogant and self centered, it doesn't mean they are a devil. If they consider that it should follow that all their relationships should degenerate into betrayal, humiliation and lies -if that is a reasonable expectation-... well, I truly hope that the people who are making this false equivalence that they said it here first: unless you are perfect, don't bother hoping for any sliver of honesty or respect. Hope they can sing the same tune something similar happens to them in the future. Maybe the will discover that they, too, are not perfect
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matrice
April 4, 2022 at 8:27 AM
He might not be the ideal husband, but he does not have to be (nobody is perfect), and he is a thousand times better than her, on the important stuff. He might not know how to sew, but he would never betray her or lie to her (taking away her freedom to make an informed decision), as her lover's wife. That's more you can say about either her or her lover. Frankly speaking, with her lover as an example, I don't know how he could think of himself as a bad husband (If the "change" mentioned is him apologizing for a fantasy and believing that she cheated as revenge, this is an involution, it's utterly insane gaslighting which he should absolutely refuse).
Neither of them realized these problems, she did not talk to him about them (as per the first episodes, they never argued, so this confrontational attitude is due to her massive betrayal and not representative of usual discussions), choosing instead to set out to betray and deceive him indefinitely.
Setting aside the fact that I don't know how taking a lover is supposed to clear up the schedule (though magically, when she needed to find time to sleep with him she could make the hours appear... some of them "stolen" from time her husband wanted to spend reconnecting with her -not exactly putting new stuff on her plate, so much for this excuse-). In general, let's remember that she destroyed two families, and was willing to make her husband an accomplice in the continued deception of her lover's wife (so much for female solidarity and honesty, they didn't come clean even after the affair was discovered).
As for his words, he thought she was the perfect wife and has discovered that she had been lying to him for the past six months, he is understandably angry and I take the "unfair" comments about her intentions, etc. with a grain of salt (if anything like this happened to any of us, none of us would be analytical and completely fair and unbiased, everyone in the comments pretending they are better than this is a liar).
Again, as in the case of the cheating plot in Crazy Rich Asian, I feel myself understanding towards some complaints (in his case the classist family), but the cheating itself correctly and rightfully wipes away all the potential sympathy. Stress is not an excuse to wreck two families (by the way, if she had to have an affair she could have chosen someone unattached: she was willing to deceive someone that didn't do anything wrong to her for a superficial whim -that's not normal behavior, unless you are a sociopath without empathy-). None of this can be used as a reason for deceiving your partner: if the roles were reversed as in Crazy Rich Asian we wouldn't be having this discussion, and nobody would justify a philandering Wall Street exect that did the same thing on the grounds of "stress".
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6 Chandler
November 21, 2016 at 8:58 PM
ROFL. Just scrolling down through all of Lee Sang-yeob's screencaps is all it takes for me to lose it. His expressions are priceless. I'm officially waiting for the day he'll be a lead in his own rom-com. It better come soon.
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fayyyy
November 21, 2016 at 11:16 PM
Me too. Him and the writer are the next best thing after hyun woo. And his expressions are impeccable. But have to say this show totally upgraded him one level after that debacle of the noodles show.
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⭐ Sera The Ms Temper ⭐
November 22, 2016 at 12:08 AM
I liked him in Master of Noodles way better than the main lead. So far he is quite versatile - he was also great (and creepy) as a psychopath killer in Signal. Who can even imagine he in Signal and here is the same person?
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samantha1
November 22, 2016 at 12:16 AM
Those episodes in Signal where he had acted as the killer were my favorite ones. Those were hauntingly heartbreaking.
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lunatic4kd
November 22, 2016 at 8:41 PM
Wah??? He was the killer in Signal???? WOW! Just Wow! What a great actor. He's totally my favorite here.
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Lord Cobol (Kdramas, like water, flow downhill)
November 22, 2016 at 11:30 PM
Yes, he was the serial killer who buried all those women on the mountainside...
...kinda creates room for an alternate explanation of why his wife disappeared :)
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samantha1
November 21, 2016 at 11:20 PM
Haha.I'll be here just waiting for that to happen. I'm sorry but I always laugh whenever he cries like a lost puppy. He's just so adorable.
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MapleSilver
November 22, 2016 at 8:58 PM
Me, too. His ridiculous sobbing next to LSK's deadpan question of whether he is crying because he is pitying him again is totally a LOL moment for me.
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⭐ Sera The Ms Temper ⭐
November 22, 2016 at 12:06 AM
I always have soft spot for him, and his role here is just too adorable.
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pompom10
November 22, 2016 at 12:18 AM
Ditto! He's adorable and hilarious, plus we already saw his emotional and subtle acting in some cameo roles.
Love his character's dynamic with Bo-Young and Hyun-Woo (sometime with Yoon-Ki, too!).
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blnmom
November 22, 2016 at 3:55 PM
He was a lead in a rom-com, a weekender called A Little Love Never Hurts. You can watch it on Viki, it's pretty good!
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7 lunatic4kd
November 21, 2016 at 9:07 PM
Many questions I have about Soo-yeon and her crazy-making inability to express her emotions were answered in the scenes with her father. Talk about stoic, reserved, withheld and unemotional!! He never asked her what was wrong, preferring just to be around her quietly. That's all fine when you need quiet but when you need the hammer of tough love to crash upon your head to at least get you TALKING, it's the people you love and trust who can do that for you. No wonder she retreats and can't speak up for herself. What a crippling example of a father she has. People like Soo-yeon and her father and other people I've known who do nothing but smile, take care of others, act like martyrs and say "I'm sorry" ad nauseum all the time drive me absolutely NUTS. I say this so freely because I used to be one of those people. It took me until my 30's to totally grow out of it. Now Hyun-woo has to realize how he can save his wife and his marriage by taking charge and rescuing her from herself. I hope he does because I'm tired of yelling at my computer screen.
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8 lazielizard
November 21, 2016 at 9:08 PM
Oh Sooyeon.. I really felt for her this ep. Just the whole part of her going to see her father really tugged at my heart. And when she finally broke down in tears as she was driven away in the taxi.. man. I suppose I might feel more for her than a lot of people just for the sake that she comes off as so human. Not that the other characters don't, they do. It's just that I am still rooting for her character. I honestly don't wish anything bad on her.
My whole feeling here is that she too is human and makes mistakes. yeah I know really simple maybe too simple.. but the thing is I see myself in her as well..and I can't hate myself..I mean I can, but I choose not to. Here's the thing, I believe she is aware of how her affair has thrown her family's world upside down and she seems to be trying to take responsibility for it. That doesn't mean we will understand what she thinks she should do..she is just trying to get through. I suppose I also feel for her because she lost herself and the outing of the affair put it all into perspective. Being a mother, wife, employee..that isn't all there is to life..but an affair was not going to solve her problems and I think she knows that now. Anyway I just really enjoyed watching Sooyeon in this ep..twisted my heart that's for sure.
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9 kdramaanalysis
November 21, 2016 at 9:28 PM
Post (1/2)
Have blogged about this episode at https://kdramaanalysis.wordpress.com/2016/11/20/my-wife-is-having-an-affair-this-week-episode-7/
Also wanted to include in the comments what I have written about Hyun Woo and Soo Yeon:
"Things are still not looking good for Hyun Woo and Soo Yeon and the prospect of them getting back together is a distant reality. Even though they finally have their first heart to heart conversation, it reveals that the issues between them are much deeper than just the affair and also how far apart they have grown. This show certainly isn't one to settle for easy answers or reconciliations and with each episode, it just keeps digging deeper into issues of marriage, loyalty and women's identity.
While Hyun Woo did display some growth in the previous episode by deciding to have a proper conversation with Soo Yeon, his perspective on what went wrong between them still hasn't matured much. As shown in this episode, he is fixated on the affair and still fails to look beyond that into their marital issues. When Soo Yeon poses him a question of whether he has had an affair before, he is momentarily stumped and he asks all those around him if they think he's had an affair before, admitting to Yoon-ki that he jumped a little at the question. While Yoon-ki is clear that he is cheating on Ara, Hyun Woo's behaviour may be even worse than him because he is not even aware of his interactions with the opposite sex. He confesses to Yoon-ki and Joon Young that there have been three women that he took out for meals and drinks. He calls one of them cute, compares his relationship with the other one with Joon Young and Bo Young and he even went to a Busan film festival with the last one. All the while, he dismisses his interactions with these three women as "affairs", but imagine how Soo Yeon would have responded if she had seen him?
While both Joon Young and Bo Young dismiss Hyun Woo's examples as having an affair, it's Bo Young who provokes Hyun Woo into deep thought when she says:
But whether it’s a man or woman, an affair is about giving the body and the mind. It’s not sleeping or physical contact, but it’s the step before getting there, isn’t it? Women consider it an affair from the mid-stage. - Bo Young
This leads Hyun Woo to realise that his previous behaviour may have constituted an affair, which I personally think it did. He's no less guilty of having his heart roam from the marriage when compared to Soo Yeon. While Joon-ki's interactions with the other women are purely physical, Hyun Woo's interactions with the other women were emotional and intellectual - both of which constitute an affair. However, even when he finally apologises to Hyun Woo, there's an element of denial as he says to her, "if that's what you consider an affair, yes it means I had an affair", instead of outright apologising for the affair.
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10 kdramaanalysis
November 21, 2016 at 9:30 PM
Post 2/2
"He then goes on to ask her if she had an affair to take revenge
, but he's so far off from the truth. He even says that she's been doing well as the perfect wife and mum and everyone's been jealous of him. However, he fails to realise it's precisely that pressure of maintaining her reputation as perfect wife, mum and career woman that caused her to become stretched so thin. The affair started when Sun-Woo gave her something that Hyun Woo never did - the gift of freedom. He gives her two hours that are wholly hers, so that she can finish a book in her handbag that she's never been able to start. He also gives her the attention that she's never had from Hyun Woo by observing something about her she's never noticed.
Moving away from the show itself, I'd like to add that Soo Yeon's situation is completely convincing and very real. Parenthood is an all-absorbing endeavour that requires so much of you - you completely lose any time for yourself and just doing something as simple as reading 30 pages of a book becomes a rare luxury. This is something I've experienced and also witnessed my wife going through. As husband and wife, we need to intentionally help to protect that sense of "thaselfhood" of each other by giving each other time to continue to pursue our own interests. Having walked the path myself, I completely understood what Soo Yeon was sharing.
While Soo Yeon's story does not absolve her of any guilt, it's clear by the end of her sharing that she is immensely sorry for what she has done. She keeps apologising, telling Hyun Woo that she should have gone to him first. Hyun Woo's response to her story once again misses the mark completely, as he tells her this is what everyone goes through. However, this is evidently not the case for him as he has had the freedom to choose when he can pick up his kid and even gone on dinners and drinks with the women mentioned earlier. Sun-woo was very likely the only friend that Soo Yeon had, ever since they had kids. At the end of it, Soo Yeon says that she can no longer face Hyun Woo and she's not sure it's guilt. Yes, she's right, it's more complex than that. It's emotional estrangement and distance - she should have told him how she felt, but from what we have witnessed, he shows no interest in genuinely understanding her situation, always imposing his understanding on her. It could also be physical withdrawal, as we've not witnessed a single hint of physical intimacy between the two of them. There's also a sense of entrapment, because facing Hyun Woo again reminds her of all the roles she has to play to keep up that perfect image. There could also be betrayal, because Hyun Woo has not kept his promise made during the only sweet scene between them of the series so far, where he promised her that they will still make them to watch the stars even when the kid comes. It's so multi-layered and complex and I applaud the show for laying bare all these issues that...
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11 kdramaanalysis
November 21, 2016 at 9:38 PM
Sorry didn't mean to spam, but wanted to include my final paragraph on their relationship because it's also something that I feel the show falls short in episode 8.
"The challenge I foresee for the show is how to tie all these emotional issues together in a satisfactory manner. And this is where I once again express my desire for the show to bring both of them together because divorce would really be the easy way out for the show as well. Getting both of them to divorce would mean the show does not have to resolve all the issues it has surfaced between Hyun Woo and Soo Yeon. It would be far more satisfactory and arguably even groundbreaking if the show chose to take the more meaningful route and show us how a couple can work through such issues. It would also be disappointing if they just came back together for the sake of Joo Soon and swept all their issues under the carpet, because we all know that that’s also a recipe for disaster. The show has done well so far in revealing all the issues leading to their distancing; it now has the challenging task of exploring the reconciliation process meaningfully."
My full blog post also contains my thoughts on Yoon Ki, Joon Young and the production aspects. The full post is https://kdramaanalysis.wordpress.com/2016/11/20/my-wife-is-having-an-affair-this-week-episode-7/
Thanks for reading.
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Lc
November 22, 2016 at 3:17 PM
Wow, wonderful post.
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loveblossom🌸
November 27, 2016 at 6:54 PM
Liked reading your analysis. Thanks for sharing!
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12 vas140030
November 21, 2016 at 9:45 PM
This is the first time I've actually felt compelled enough to write a comment on here but oh my goodness this show is getting on my nerves. I'm really tired of her repeatedly saying "It's my fault, I take responsibility" like what does that even mean????? All she does is leave the house, undermine the things that Hyun Woo wants, and threatens to take the kid. It's getting to be too much. I was really hoping for a valid reason for her to cheat - not that it would ever be acceptable but at least something that doesn't make her such a selfish person. Hyun Woo makes a really good point that his life was hard too, he felt lonely and overwhelmed too but he didn't go run to the next girl and sleep with them because of it. It's especially upsetting because you know that if he never caught her, she would STILL be cheating.
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hana
November 21, 2016 at 9:52 PM
I was really put off by her question have you ever cheated on me? Like what???? It's not tit for tat here, even if he had cheated that does not then validate you having an affair. It was just such an odd question for her to ask. Like asking the time of day, what so you've never cheated on me?? No, he hasn't. maybe he was a bit blind to her struggle but thats not entirely his fault. At any moment she could have went to him and say I'm exhausted , I'm at my limit I need a vacation or help but she didn't. She always had a choice, she made the choice to have an affair while claiming she also wanted to stay married. Only now that she's caught she can't handle the backlash and has given up. If you can't handle the consequences then don't do the action.
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vas140030
November 22, 2016 at 1:57 AM
Idk I feel like /had/ he cheated on her and she revenge cheated I would understand her more. It wouldn't necessarily absolve her of anything but it would 100% make me more sympathetic and w/ how he was acting it might've even pushed me to her side but it was just so unbelievably selfish. And re: her not speaking up, that's exactly what I'm saying!! Like he's not a mind reader, he's not automatically going to know that you're having a tough time esp if when he asks you you're not going to say anything!! That's what's really jarring to me, that even before he saw that text he asked her if everything was alright and if she was mad/disappointed with him but she just smiled and pretended everything was okay. Like????????
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 7:16 PM
Sometimes people get blindsided and think they know a person better than they do. This does not mean that their love isn't genuine, and a normal human being would have some understanding that even if people are a bit arrogant and self centered, it doesn't mean they are a devil. If they consider that it should follow that all their relationships should degenerate into betrayal, humiliation and lies -if that is a reasonable expectation-... well, I truly hope that the people who are making this false equivalence that they said it here first: unless you are perfect, don't bother hoping for any sliver of honesty or respect. Hope they can sing the same tune something similar happens to them in the future. Maybe the will discover that they, too, are not perfect
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 7:48 PM
Consider that some texts were all she needed to catch his attention and alert him that there was a problem. Not *that* oblivious and self centered, right? Could have been better. But he was not *that* dense. Imagine what she could have done had she explicitly told him she had an issue when she finally realized she was tired, rather than playing bs guessing games like a fucking teenager and pretend that he read her mind. The other guy was coming at it from a fresh perspective, sometimes the people we see less clearly are those closer to us (which is why it could very well happen that other people know someone has an affair before his partner does). It might be a higher emotional intelligence, a fresh perspective or chance. It doesn't say much about them morally (the fact that they would be willing to betray their spouse, humiliate them, and lie to their faces, with no case for how it would affect their partner or their children, does).
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thatstp
November 22, 2016 at 9:19 PM
"maybe he was a bit blind to her struggle but thats not entirely his fault. At any moment she could have went to him and say I’m exhausted , I’m at my limit I need a vacation or help but she didn’t."
If he was half of the great husband he thinks he is he should have went to her and said "I know you carry most of the load here everyday, why don't you take a day off. Go to the spa. I'll take our son for some male bonding." That is why Sun Woo caught her eye. He took notice of how hard she works at everything and realized she didn't even have time to read a book. Hyun Woo only asked to spend time with her after he saw the texts.
He came home with a half ass apology about why he didn't pick their son up then to assuage his guilt he asked he to turn around and give him a smile. Seriously?
She was wrong to have an affair but Soo Yeon shouldn't be the only one doing self reflection. Hyun Woo is self centered only worrying about his needs and basking in the glow of the other moms. He may be better than their husbands but that doesn't make him perfect.
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 12:57 PM
"Everyone is exhausted" and "everyone lives that way" are completely fair statements. That he may or may not be part of that "everyone" does in no way constitute a "problem", a claim's truth doesn't change based on who states it (besides, while an unappreciative asshole, he is not lazying on the couch all day contributing nothing). I might be a billionaire and argue that being short of money doesn't entitle anyone to rob a bank. There is no contradiction in that.
Also being an unhappreciative asshole might mean you deserve her to leave you. It doesn't mean you deserve to have your trust betrayed, and to be lied to your face. You are not owed love, but you are owed the bare minimum of honesty and respect. He was not perfect. Does this mean he deserved to be cheated on? No. Let alone deserve, is her reaction a justifiable leap from the sorvable initial problem of bad communication? No. Making him cook would make him a better husband, but it doesn't mean he would be any more or less deserving of being hurt, humiliated and deceived the way he was. There is simply no proportionality.
The post above basically concede his point. without apparently realizing that it destroys his ad-hominem argument. Working women that have to take care of the house are overworked, assholes husbands help less than they should and he was actually one of the "good ones" in that, while being an unappreciative asshole that took her for granted, he did have a job and helped a little. That's basically the claim he was making, and you will notice that it's not as if people generally respond by having affairs. That's because it's not a reasonable way to respond.
Having to deal with stresses and issues doesn't give you a free pass to hurt, humiliate and deceive people who love you and have not hurt you in any way. We understand the path from A to B, and call people that behave like that, taking their frustrations out on others, assholes. She feels that her excuse for her affair is invalid for a very good reason: because it is (for the reason explained by her husband and that you yourself confirmed).
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 12:58 PM
Let alone working women, life balance is something people in general struggle with. People need to take their minds off their concerns. They might consider better time management, exercise or meditation. There is no justifiable leap from that to betraying your husband, humiliating him and lying to his face for half a year, it's simply not one of the available options. Plus, a lover doesn't add extra hours. In the time she spent with him she could have just as easily gotten some me-time doing yoga.
Ultimately, I take issue with calling her exhaustion, or lack of communication (that they both contibuted to... he should have been more attentive, but he can't be expected to be a mind reader), or any of their issues, which could have legitimely lead to a breakup, the "reason" or "excuse" for her action. She did what she did because she chose to. Saying to life is hard is banally true. If you are hungry, you can either beat up someone and steal his food, or go to a restaurant. There are the circumstance, and there are choices to deal with them. What you do doesn't depend on the circumstance, but on the choice. Most people would have chosen differently.
If you are in an argument, you can be both in the wrong. If you escalate by throwing a punch, then you can't refer back to the discussion and say that you were both in the wrong about the previous argument. The punch is a separate thing, and only the assaulter is responsible for his own actions. He doesn't get to claim that "he started it", he is not in kindergarden. The same way I wouldn't excuse domestic violence on the grounds of stresses and misunderstanding, I wouldn't accept those as justifications for humiliating and deceiving a person for months on end. He has the right to act morally superior in this istance because on balance, while an asshole, he is.
matrice
October 19, 2018 at 2:19 PM
"He came home with a half ass apology about why he didn't pick their son up then to assuage his guilt he asked he to turn around and give him a smile. Seriously?"
Yes, seriosly. The horror. Not as if he didn't have other things on his mind, wonder what they were (wink wink). I don't know what worse he could do, maybe lie to his wife and family for the past half a year with no care how the humiliation and deception would affect their lives.
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 2:51 PM
""maybe he was a bit blind to her struggle but thats not entirely his fault. At any moment she could have went to him and say I’m exhausted , I’m at my limit I need a vacation or help but she didn’t."
If he was half of the great husband he thinks he is he should have went to her and said "I know you carry most of the load here everyday, why don't you take a day off. Go to the spa. I'll take our son for some male bonding." That is why Sun Woo caught her eye. He took notice of how hard she works at everything and realized she didn't even have time to read a book. Hyun Woo only asked to spend time with her after he saw the texts."
You didn't really address the first point, which remains perfectly valid. They did have issue communicating. You can't not talk about a problem and then complain if it is not addressed. He should have been more attentive, but he is not a mind reader. Also, the situation had been caused partially by her choices. That's okay in that it's all fixable, and she should be able to enjoy work and home life at the same time, but, again, you can't treat ignorance as a moral failure on the scale of consciously betraying a person. What we are saying is that he was stupid and inattentive, not immoral and reprehensible. What she did was. That Soo Yeon noticed it is not unthinkable, since he comes with a fresh perspective and we see our work colleagues for most of the day, it doesn't really mean that the people we love don't care abou us. And sure, the oh-so-great Sun Woo, who can compare. Well, besides the fact that between the two men, he was the one that betrayed, humiliated and lied to his wife for half a year, so I am really wondering if she would have preferred having someone like that for a husband? Still not perfect of course. Can we say something else? Better or worse? I think worse. Let's be serious.
"She was wrong to have an affair but Soo Yeon shouldn't be the only one doing self reflection. Hyun Woo is self centered only worrying about his needs and basking in the glow of the other moms. He may be better than their husbands but that doesn't make him perfect."
It's insane and demented that those two things could be mentioned in the same phrase. Cancer and a cough are both illness. Anything else they might differ on? You mention them both in the same breath, as if they were somewhat comparable. Let me be clear about the guy. He was at worst an unattentive asshole that took her wife for granted. Notice that in none of that there is any echo of him consciously betraying his wife's trust, humiliating her in the worst way possible and deceiving her for months, until she found out. As you said, he was better than the other husbands and not perfect. You might notice that the other wives were also better in that they didn't do what I just mentioned to their husband. Not being perfect does not make him a candidate for that kind of pain and betrayal. One does not deserve to be perfect in order not to...
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 2:52 PM
It's insane and demented that those two things could be mentioned in the same phrase. Cancer and a cough are both illness. Anything else they might differ on? You mention them both in the same breath, as if they were somewhat comparable. Let me be clear about the guy. He was at worst an unattentive asshole that took her wife for granted. Notice that in none of that there is any echo of him consciously betraying his wife's trust, humiliating her in the worst way possible and deceiving her for months, until she found out. As you said, he was better than the other husbands and not perfect. You might notice that the other wives were also better in that they didn't do what I just mentioned to their husband. Not being perfect does not make him a candidate for that kind of pain and betrayal. One does not deserve to be perfect in order not to be cheated, on, it should be a basic precondition in a relatioship that there is a baseline of honesty and respect. That doesn't mean that she couldn't break up with him. If he had hit her, I wouldn't dare to put it in the same breath as her being annoying. I see deceiving him for half a year as a less severe but equally deal breaking act on the same continuum (they are incidentally both valid causes for fauld divorce, while I doubt anyone could convince a judge that you were personally wronged because you were tired and didn't tell him, and he showed you more attention than the other mother's men, but not as much as your lover).
matrice
October 19, 2018 at 3:02 PM
I really get irritated to see those things discussed in the same breath, as if lying to someone's face for six months straight, betraying and humiliating him, would be somewhat comparable to . I think that we wouldn't be talking about this if it was something more openly cruel like outright domestic abuse. But in my eyes, it's a morally unacceptable behavior on the same continuum. Meaning that it's *really* fucked up, not *a little* fucked up. It's not a verbal fight or beign oblivious to someone's issues. I also have to note that Sun Woo was the *only* one that noticed (her son and her other friends were equally oblivious, which to me makes your unfairly critical assessment of her husband -coupled with a weasly, slithery minimizing of her actions- dubious at best). Also, you probably don't have teenage kids, or your assumption that you should be able to perfectly understand and introspect someone you love if you just chose to, even if they don't tell you anything, impossible to mantain without laughing.
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 5:41 PM
To complete the metaphor, I would say that the guy suffers from a variant of battered wife syndrome. He was better than the other husband, which puts things in perspective... I mean, not that we want to follow the lowest common denominator, but the charge against him from some commenters (and himself) is *literally* that he is not perfect. If this he was one of my female friends I would seriously be worried about what else she would be willing to accept from the relationship while being paralyzed by self blame and holding herself to an absurd standard (and excusing away the boyfriend's behavior). He is in no physical risk, but it's basically the same attitude and the same dynamic of unreasonable expectations and being unable to let go of a toxic situation. This refers to the him in the future, not to the relatively, if not introspective, one we see here.
matrice
October 19, 2018 at 3:21 PM
I really get irritated to see those things discussed in the same breath, as if lying to someone's face for six months straight, betraying and humiliating him, would be somewhat comparable to . I think that we wouldn't be talking about this if it was something more openly cruel like outright domestic abuse. But in my eyes, it's a morally unacceptable behavior on the same continuum. Meaning that it's *really* fucked up, not *a little* fucked up. It's not a verbal fight or beign oblivious to someone's issues. I also have to note that Sun Woo was the *only* one that noticed (her son and her other friends were equally oblivious, which to me makes your unfairly critical assessment of her husband -coupled with a weasly, slithery minimizing of her actions- dubious at best). Also, you probably don't have teenage kids, or your assumption that you should be able to perfectly understand and introspect someone you love if you just chose to, even if they don't tell you anything, impossible to mantain without laughing. ea u
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 5:41 PM
To complete the metaphor, I would say that the guy suffers from a variant of battered wife syndrome. He was better than the other husband, which puts things in perspective... I mean, not that we want to follow the lowest common denominator, but the charge against him from some commenters (and himself) is *literally* that he is not perfect. If this he was one of my female friends I would seriously be worried about what else she would be willing to accept from the relationship while being paralyzed by self blame and holding herself to an absurd standard (and excusing away the boyfriend's behavior). He is in no physical risk, but it's basically the same attitude and the same dynamic of unreasonable expectations and being unable to let go of a toxic situation. This refers to the him in the future, not to the relatively, if not introspective, one we see here.
matrice
October 19, 2018 at 3:22 PM
I really get irritated to see those things discussed in the same breath, as if lying to someone's face for six months straight, betraying and humiliating him, would be somewhat comparable to . I think that we wouldn't be talking about this if it was something more openly cruel like outright domestic abuse. But in my eyes, it's a morally unacceptable behavior on the same continuum. Meaning that it's *really* fucked up, not *a little* fucked up. It's not a verbal fight or beign oblivious to someone's issues. I also have to note that Sun Woo was the *only* one that noticed (her son and her other friends were equally oblivious, which to me makes your unfairly critical assessment of her husband -coupled with a weasly, slithery minimizing of her actions- dubious at best). Also, you probably don't have teenage kids, or your assumption that you should be able to perfectly understand and introspect someone you love if you just chose to, even if they don't tell you anything, impossible to mantain without laughing. com
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 5:42 PM
To complete the metaphor, I would say that the guy suffers from a variant of battered wife syndrome. He was better than the other husband, which puts things in perspective... I mean, not that we want to follow the lowest common denominator, but the charge against him from some commenters (and himself) is *literally* that he is not perfect. If this he was one of my female friends I would seriously be worried about what else she would be willing to accept from the relationship while being paralyzed by self blame and holding herself to an absurd standard (and excusing away the boyfriend's behavior). He is in no physical risk, but it's basically the same attitude and the same dynamic of unreasonable expectations and being unable to let go of a toxic situation.
matrice
October 19, 2018 at 5:42 PM
This refers to the him in the future, not to the relatively, if not introspective, one we see here.
matrice
October 19, 2018 at 6:39 PM
"If he was half of the great husband he thinks he is he should have went to her and said "I know you carry most of the load here everyday, why don't you take a day off. Go to the spa. I'll take our son for some male bonding."
By the same token, she could have said "could you please take care of the kid while I do this other activity". I don't know what fraction of the barely decent human being she would need to be in order to do that rather than betray her husband, humiliate him in the worst way she could and lie to his face for half a year.
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 7:07 PM
Probably a bigger fraction of a human being than the person that some of the commenters like the one I was responding to above. She was the one that made choices regarding her schedule, deciding to take on so many tasks, she can't exactly put the blame on someone else. Apparently, when she needed to find time to meet her lover it wasn't much of an issue for her to find the hours. For that matter, she apparently didn't notice herself that she was working too much. Nor did anyone else besides her lover (which I suspect might have been had an interest in her). You seem awfully smug about the fact that he didn't take note. Read again what you wrote. It's not that he knew something and didn't care, he honestly didn't realize that there was a problem.
Should he have? Yes. As you said, he wasn't perfect. I don't think you realize that this is really not the indication of the incredible moral failure it seems to be in your head. It doesn't mean that he didn't care about her and was an amoral monster. It meant that he didn't notice something that basically nobody did. Once you mature and have to deal with a teenager or two, you will quickly realize that you too are not a mind reader, and simply wanting to understand what goes on in someone's head is not enough to know it. For that matter, had he asked her, she wouldn't have been able to tell him she had an issue until she figured it out herself, so he can hardly be blamed in particular for not knowing her better than she did herself. He could have had more emotional intelligence and been a little less dense, but she could have made time for herself without betraying, hurting and humiliating him -as she did when she needed to meet her lover-, or better yet explicitly telling him about this, since he was convinced that there was no problem. Human beings have language for a reason, and that's that we can't read each other's mind.
If every time someone that loves us didn't understand us triggered a months long cycle of betrayal, humiliation and deception, we would hardly have any parent-child relatioship to speak of, and basically no one would be able to be in any relationship ever. Thankfully for us, contrary to your smug implication, that does not follow., since most people undestand that it is simply the case that people have busy life, and you can't always understand what's within a person's head, or you can have a wrong picture of what they think, and that doesn't say anything about you relationship, just that the two of you should have a talk to clear things out -which means that she should have given him an explicit indication once she figured she had a problem, you can't complain nobody heard something you didn't say-. Unless you are a crazy asshole, which people that make a big deal out of the fact that the person she so callously deceived and betrayed might have assumed he had known his wife better than he did (well, he certainly didn't see her betraying him,...
matrice
October 19, 2018 at 7:08 PM
(well, he certainly didn't see her betraying him, otherwise he wouldn't have put any trust in her in the first place) might very well be.
matrice
October 19, 2018 at 7:15 PM
Sometimes people get blindsided and think they know a person better than they do. This does not mean that their love isn't genuine, and a normal human being would have some understanding that even if people are a bit arrogant and self centered, it doesn't mean they are a devil. If they consider that it should follow that all their relationships should degenerate into betrayal, humiliation and lies -if that is a reasonable expectation-... well, I truly hope that the people who are making this false equivalence that they said it here first: unless you are perfect, don't bother hoping for any sliver of honesty or respect. Hope they can sing the same tune something similar happens to them in the future. Maybe the will discover that they, too, are not perfect
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 7:29 PM
Ironically, he just needed some texts to realize that there was something wrong. Imagine if she had, I don't know, *explicitly told him* that she was tired. Crazy demand, eh?
But you are right, he is the selfish asshole. Not she and her lover, who betrayed their partners, humiliated them and lied to their faces. No, not at all.
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 7:39 PM
Consider that some texts were all she needed to catch his attention and alert him that there was a problem. Not *that* oblivious and self centered, right? Could have been better. But he was not *that* dense. Imagine what she could have done had she explicitly told him she had an issue when she finally realized she was tired, rather than playing bs guessing games like a fucking teenager and pretend that he read her mind. The other guy was coming at it from a fresh perspective, sometimes the people we see less clearly are those closer to us (which is why it could very well happen that other people know someone has an affair before his partner does). It might be a higher emotional intelligence, a fresh perspective or chance. It doesn't say much about them morally (the fact that they would be willing to betray their spouse, humiliate them, and lie to their faces, with no case for how it would affect their partner or their children, does).
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matrice
October 22, 2018 at 12:55 PM
One might do self reflection for stealing candy or for triple murder. A cancer and a cough are both illnesses. Yeah, they both have to reflect better about their behavior. His apology was half assed (which matters more for the kid than for her, to be honest... there is no apology for what she did to him, they could tally up their respective slights till the end of time and what he would have to apologize to her for wouldn't even equate to sliver of what she had to apologize to him for).
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matrice
October 23, 2018 at 10:40 AM
To be more clear, while it's obviousy that he would be not mentally lucid at this point in time (and could even sarcastically apologize to her with a "sorry, don't know why but lately I have a lot on my mind", wink wink), he has a responsibility towards his child. I perfectly understand both why he would feel embarassed to and wanting to avoid apologizing to her, given what she did to him -thus the half assedness-, and why he would not be in a position to take care of things, mentally. That's when he should rely on his support structure. His wife? Who gives a fuck about her. But he has a responsibility to the kid.
Also "half assed" is a term I would apply more to her underwhelming apology (when she didn't throw her betrayal in his face, willingly hurting him, almost outraged at him daring to ask her, after he rightfully pressured her to stop bullshitting him and just tell him what the fuck she had been lying to him about for the past half a year).
matrice
October 23, 2018 at 12:07 PM
He also came in somewhat useful (as we will see in the future) when it came to changing the lights or doing other repairs around the house. He was not a deadbet asshole that was mantained by his wife, and as you say, he wasn't even as unhelpful as the other guys (though he could always do more). Not that either of those "worse cases" would deserve the kind of betrayal, humiliation and deception he experienced, either. Betraying, humiliating and deceiving someone for half a year is not "just another way to break up". People could treat each other with honestry and respect in a breakup. You are not owed love, but are owed a minimum of respect. When I think about the basic, minimum requirements in a relationship, I don't know that I would put it lasting forever on the list, but betrayial and deception being off the table *would* be on the list. I should be able to simply take for granted that it won't happen just as I should be able to take for granted that my partner won't physicall assault me while we are having an argument. If I wasn't assumping that as a prerequisite, and always kept in mind deception as a a viable possibility, then I would be assuming the other person to be untrustworthy (or violent, in the other case), and then what kind of relationship would I be talking about? It's not really about romantic love. I similarly don't spend much time wondering whether my best friend would stab me in the back (otherwise it would mean I wouldn't be trusting them, and they wouldn't be my best friend). What she did is beyond the pale *exactly* because at a basic level, the starting assumption is that it's not on the table, just as my partner hitting me is not on the table, it's not just unexpected, but whithin the range of possible options, you have to be able to operate under the assumption that it doesn't happen, otherwise there is already no trust. Almost by definition, your best friend is someone about whom you are able to say "he won't stab me in the back". If you are not able to say that, it's not your best friend, by definition. Same for romantic love.
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Jackpapa376
May 26, 2022 at 11:15 PM
Her question was crazy. If she really knew that her husband had had an affair before and she was hurt but ignored his affair, I might well understand her feeling more and sympathize her. But it revealed that her husband just had a fantasy emotional thinking with another woman while she had a true adultery sleeping with another man. Just wondered if she realized that her guilt was much much worse than his.
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gala
November 22, 2016 at 12:13 AM
"I’m really tired of her repeatedly saying “It’s my fault, I take responsibility” like what does that even mean?????"
But you know what, this is how it is in "real" life, or at least what I've experienced. I've had a boyfriend who cheated on me, and when found out, all he could do is apologize and claim it's his fault. he was attracted and couldn't resist, but he claimed he still wanted to be with me. hence, he gave in to moments of temptation. it was a lame excuse, but that's human nature. and as the popular Rihanna song goes, cheaters (most of them) are only sorry they got caught.
and I think that's why the show can be frustrating. it hits a nerve because we know these things happen to common people.
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vas140030
November 22, 2016 at 2:01 AM
But what I'm saying is how is she going to take responsibility for her actions? By getting angry at him? Undermining his wants based on her wants? My entire point is that she isn't really taking responsibility at all, she's making herself out to be the victim as if she shouldn't be responsible for her actions and her "taking responsibility" is some grand burden that she should be respected for shouldering.
Also sorry about your ex(?) boyfriend, what a dick.
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 7:43 PM
Consider that some texts were all she needed to catch his attention and alert him that there was a problem. Not *that* oblivious and self centered, right? Could have been better. But he was not *that* dense. Imagine what she could have done had she explicitly told him she had an issue when she finally realized she was tired, rather than playing bs guessing games like a fucking teenager and pretend that he read her mind. The other guy was coming at it from a fresh perspective, sometimes the people we see less clearly are those closer to us (which is why it could very well happen that other people know someone has an affair before his partner does). It might be a higher emotional intelligence, a fresh perspective or chance. It doesn't say much about them morally (the fact that they would be willing to betray their spouse, humiliate them, and lie to their faces, with no case for how it would affect their partner or their children, does).
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 7:42 PM
It's not your fault. They were assholes, and you are collect in calling out their bs.
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gem28
November 22, 2016 at 6:26 AM
So Yeon is the kind who function well when things run their way. She'd probably be happy forever being a super mom/wife/career -woman and carry on her affair as long as she could. Her whole ceux of existence so far seems to revolve around keeping up that impossible appearance intact while doing things her way. Her moral barometer works with a twist, that is, "It's okay to exhaust myself beyond my limit bring perfect and as long as nobody looks, its not cheating". Now that at least in one facet of her life that illusion is gone, she is ready to cut it off. Hyun Woo is not perfect but he really needs to let go of her. She is done with the marriage, him fighting for it is his right but will only make her more unhappy.
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vas140030
November 22, 2016 at 1:08 PM
But should he have to sacrifice his and his kid's happiness and stability just so she can be happy? If he does then he's a much better person than me but if he doesn't, I completely understand that.
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Bob
April 19, 2019 at 6:21 PM
She's not done with the 'marriage', she's done with being beaten down with every breath and every look. What is she supposed to do, bare her throat and allow him to strangle her? Hyun-woo explicitly stated that he wants to keep the marriage so he can pretty much enslave and torture her til she dies.
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thatstp
November 22, 2016 at 9:01 PM
Hyun Woo's life was hard too? The problem with his statement that his life was hard and he was lonely too is that he didn't/doesn't appreciate the things his wife does or goes through. He forgot to pick his son up from daycare and by the time he realizes it it's late but does he call and apologize or even call to see if his wife picked the kid up? No, he comes in and helps his son put on pajamas. Soo Yeon rushed from work, picked him up, cooked dinner and bathed him. He walks his son to the bus stop in the morning...BIG WHOOP! Soo Yeon has woke him up, got him dressed and cooked breakfast before leaving for work. The LEAST he could do is walk him to the bus stop.
Undermine Hyun Woo's wants? So Soo Yeon should make sure he feels better by letting him scream and degrade her with every one sided conversation he wants to have. She should once again put his and the son's happiness first at the expense of her own.
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 12:57 PM
He was an unappreciative asshole. That doesn't mean that he deserved to be humiliated and deceived for six months. As he correctly pointed out, billions of people deal with that and worse all over the planet. She is not a special snowflake, in fact these are trivial first world problems, trying being a working single mother in a getto and then complain. So she did housework and he was inept. He might be better positioned to appreciate that had he not just discovered that she had been humiliating and deceiving him for the past six months. As things stand, cooking a meal doesn't really compare. I can't shoot your dog and fuck you wife, then move your lawn and pay you dinner, and expect you to believe that we are equal. We are most definitely not. He is right to be angry. And yes, after hurting someone like that you can't exactly complain that them being angry at you and telling you exactly how low of a scum they think you are is unfair. What goes around comes around... The last line is especially laughable. She betrayed his trust, humiliated him and lied to his face for the last six months, with no case about how it would impact him or their child. So she bough him a present. Not exactly leveling the playing field. He shouldn't have done what he did. But she has no right to be outraged, because noting she could now do would even come close to being enough to make up for what she did. They were both responsible for lack of communication. If he was an asshole, leave him. You don't owe him love, but you do owe him some honesty and respect. She cooked him a meal. He should have cooked her one too. She also *broke his heart*, and he *did not*.
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 12:59 PM
"Everyone is exhausted" and "everyone lives that way" are completely fair statements. That he may or may not be part of that "everyone" does in no way constitute a "problem", a claim's truth doesn't change based on who states it (besides, while an unappreciative asshole, he is not lazying on the couch all day contributing nothing). I might be a billionaire and argue that being short of money doesn't entitle anyone to rob a bank. There is no contradiction in that.
Also being an unhappreciative asshole might mean you deserve her to leave you. It doesn't mean you deserve to have your trust betrayed, and to be lied to your face. You are not owed love, but you are owed the bare minimum of honesty and respect. He was not perfect. Does this mean he deserved to be cheated on? No. Let alone deserve, is her reaction a justifiable leap from the sorvable initial problem of bad communication? No. Making him cook would make him a better husband, but it doesn't mean he would be any more or less deserving of being hurt, humiliated and deceived the way he was. There is simply no proportionality.
The post above basically concede his point. without apparently realizing that it destroys his ad-hominem argument. Working women that have to take care of the house are overworked, assholes husbands help less than they should and he was actually one of the "good ones" in that, while being an unappreciative asshole that took her for granted, he did have a job and helped a little. That's basically the claim he was making, and you will notice that it's not as if people generally respond by having affairs. That's because it's not a reasonable way to respond.
Having to deal with stresses and issues doesn't give you a free pass to hurt, humiliate and deceive people who love you and have not hurt you in any way. We understand the path from A to B, and call people that behave like that, taking their frustrations out on others, assholes. She feels that her excuse for her affair is invalid for a very good reason: because it is (for the reason explained by her husband and that you yourself confirmed).
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 1:00 PM
Let alone working women, life balance is something people in general struggle with. People need to take their minds off their concerns. They might consider better time management, exercise or meditation. There is no justifiable leap from that to betraying your husband, humiliating him and lying to his face for half a year, it's simply not one of the available options. Plus, a lover doesn't add extra hours. In the time she spent with him she could have just as easily gotten some me-time doing yoga.
Ultimately, I take issue with calling her exhaustion, or lack of communication (that they both contibuted to... he should have been more attentive, but he can't be expected to be a mind reader), or any of their issues, which could have legitimely lead to a breakup, the "reason" or "excuse" for her action. She did what she did because she chose to. Saying to life is hard is banally true. If you are hungry, you can either beat up someone and steal his food, or go to a restaurant. There are the circumstance, and there are choices to deal with them. What you do doesn't depend on the circumstance, but on the choice. Most people would have chosen differently.
If you are in an argument, you can be both in the wrong. If you escalate by throwing a punch, then you can't refer back to the discussion and say that you were both in the wrong about the previous argument. The punch is a separate thing, and only the assaulter is responsible for his own actions. He doesn't get to claim that "he started it", he is not in kindergarden. The same way I wouldn't excuse domestic violence on the grounds of stresses and misunderstanding, I wouldn't accept those as justifications for humiliating and deceiving a person for months on end. He has the right to act morally superior in this istance because on balance, while an asshole, he is.
Bob
April 19, 2019 at 6:26 PM
Forget about HIM being deceived. I'm getting tired of hearing about the need to preserve HIS ego. Basically, his wife had a nervous breakdown. Her nervous breakdown isn't about him, its about her.
matrice
October 19, 2018 at 1:01 PM
"Everyone is exhausted" and "everyone lives that way" are completely fair statements. That he may or may not be part of that "everyone" does in no way constitute a "problem", a claim's truth doesn't change based on who states it (besides, while an unappreciative asshole, he is not lazying on the couch all day contributing nothing). I might be a billionaire and argue that being short of money doesn't entitle anyone to rob a bank. There is no contradiction in that.
Also being an unhappreciative asshole might mean you deserve her to leave you. It doesn't mean you deserve to have your trust betrayed, and to be lied to your face. You are not owed love, but you are owed the bare minimum of honesty and respect. He was not perfect. Does this mean he deserved to be cheated on? No. Let alone deserve, is her reaction a justifiable leap from the sorvable initial problem of bad communication? No. Making him cook would make him a better husband, but it doesn't mean he would be any more or less deserving of being hurt, humiliated and deceived the way he was. There is simply no proportionality.
The post above basically concede his point. without apparently realizing that it destroys his ad-hominem argument. Working women that have to take care of the house are overworked, assholes husbands help less than they should and he was actually one of the "good ones" in that, while being an unappreciative asshole that took her for granted, he did have a job and helped a little. That's basically the claim he was making, and you will notice that it's not as if people generally respond by having affairs. That's because it's not a reasonable way to respond.
Having to deal with stresses and issues doesn't give you a free pass to hurt, humiliate and deceive people who love you and have not hurt you in any way. We understand the path from A to B, and call people that behave like that, taking their frustrations out on others, assholes. She feels that her excuse for her affair is invalid for a very good reason: because it is (for the reason explained by her husband and that you yourself confirmed).
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 1:03 PM
I can't really think of anything more morally bankrupt to say than this. It's completely backwards. "I don't want to excuse", then proceed to make excuses. "I understand... but...". No, you obviously don't. I am not making like of the condition by calling that autistic screetching: this is basically lacking theory of mind. That ought to become the next "I am not racist, but". It's sure to be followed by grandstanding bs, diminishing, euphemizing weasel words and facts spinning. Oh, and victim blaming, too. I find the lack of empathy for the protagonist to be kind of unbelievable. *Everyone* would react like that in their position, something they would have to admit were they not too busy monday-morning-quarterbacking (by contrast, most people wouldn't deceive someone they love for half a year).
First of all, there is no comparison between what they did, but the order of severity is tilted in the other direction. She betrayed his trust, humiliated him and lied to his face for the last half a year, without caring about how it would affect him or their child, and would have continued doing so, had he not caught her red handed. Nothing he could say to her could even come close to humiliating and hurting her in a comparable way. That's simply not the moral equivalent of what she did.
I view things like physical abuse as points of no return in a relationship. Lying to someone to his face for month on end is on that spectrum. In divorce law, there is a concept of "fault divorce". Cruelty (phisical abuse) and adultery being fault conditions. It's on a different moral scale, and just like I wouldn't put "he hit her, but she is always verbally attacking him", I wouldn't put a verbal fight with another person on the same level of breaking someone's trust and humiliating deceiving him for months on end. She was tired and he wasn't perfect. You might argue with someone and be both at fault. If he punches you in the face, he can't blame it on the argument, it was his choice.
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 1:22 PM
The last phrase is so irritatingly absurd in the face of what she did that it really baffles me. She didn't really *always* put them first, did she? You seem to have some troubles understanding the difference between honestly going to someone to tell him that they should split up, and deceiving and lying to his face, which is kind of sociopathic. The question is not even did she care, but did she care enough? I would venture not, given her actions. She could do housework till the end of time and not even come close to make up for what she did, and that kind of emotional trauma and humiliation is not something that can be even slightly equated to any kind of verbal altercation.
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 3:05 PM
I really get irritated to see those things discussed in the same breath, as if lying to someone's face for six months straight, betraying and humiliating him, would be somewhat comparable to . I think that we wouldn't be talking about this if it was something more openly cruel like outright domestic abuse. But in my eyes, it's a morally unacceptable behavior on the same continuum. Meaning that it's *really* fucked up, not *a little* fucked up. It's not a verbal fight or beign oblivious to someone's issues. I also have to note that Sun Woo was the *only* one that noticed (her son and her other friends were equally oblivious, which to me makes your unfairly critical assessment of her husband -coupled with a weasly, slithery minimizing of her actions- dubious at best). Also, you probably don't have teenage kids, or your assumption that you should be able to perfectly understand and introspect someone you love if you just chose to, even if they don't tell you anything, impossible to mantain without laughing.
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 5:43 PM
To complete the metaphor, I would say that the guy suffers from a variant of battered wife syndrome. He was better than the other husband, which puts things in perspective... I mean, not that we want to follow the lowest common denominator, but the charge against him from some commenters (and himself) is *literally* that he is not perfect. If this he was one of my female friends I would seriously be worried about what else she would be willing to accept from the relationship while being paralyzed by self blame and holding herself to an absurd standard (and excusing away the boyfriend's behavior). He is in no physical risk, but it's basically the same attitude and the same dynamic of unreasonable expectations and being unable to let go of a toxic situation. This refers to the him in the future, not to the relatively, if not introspective, one we see here.
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 3:23 PM
I really get irritated to see those things discussed in the same breath, as if lying to someone's face for six months straight, betraying and humiliating him, would be somewhat comparable to . I think that we wouldn't be talking about this if it was something more openly cruel like outright domestic abuse. But in my eyes, it's a morally unacceptable behavior on the same continuum. Meaning that it's *really* fucked up, not *a little* fucked up. It's not a verbal fight or beign oblivious to someone's issues. I also have to note that Sun Woo was the *only* one that noticed (her son and her other friends were equally oblivious, which to me makes your unfairly critical assessment of her husband -coupled with a weasly, slithery minimizing of her actions- dubious at best). Also, you probably don't have teenage kids, or your assumption that you should be able to perfectly understand and introspect someone you love if you just chose to, even if they don't tell you anything, impossible to mantain without laughing.eua u
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 5:44 PM
To complete the metaphor, I would say that the guy suffers from a variant of battered wife syndrome. He was better than the other husband, which puts things in perspective... I mean, not that we want to follow the lowest common denominator, but the charge against him from some commenters (and himself) is *literally* that he is not perfect. If this he was one of my female friends I would seriously be worried about what else she would be willing to accept from the relationship while being paralyzed by self blame and holding herself to an absurd standard (and excusing away the boyfriend's behavior). He is in no physical risk, but it's basically the same attitude and the same dynamic of unreasonable expectations and being unable to let go of a toxic situation. This refers to the him in the future, not to the relatively, if not introspective, one we see here.
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 5:44 PM
To complete the metaphor, I would say that the guy suffers from a variant of battered wife syndrome. He was better than the other husband, which puts things in perspective... I mean, not that we want to follow the lowest common denominator, but the charge against him from some commenters (and himself) is *literally* that he is not perfect. If this he was one of my female friends I would seriously be worried about what else she would be willing to accept from the relationship while being paralyzed by self blame and holding herself to an absurd standard (and excusing away the boyfriend's behavior). He is in no physical risk, but it's basically the same attitude and the same dynamic of unreasonable expectations and being unable to let go of a toxic situation.
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 5:45 PM
This refers to the him in the future, not to the relatively, if not introspective, one we see here.
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 3:24 PM
Of course, while he should have cared before, now it would make perfect sense for him *not* to give a damn whatever the hell her wife is going through.
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 7:25 PM
Sometimes people get blindsided and think they know a person better than they do. This does not mean that their love isn't genuine, and a normal human being would have some understanding that even if people are a bit arrogant and self centered, it doesn't mean they are a devil. If they consider that it should follow that all their relationships should degenerate into betrayal, humiliation and lies -if that is a reasonable expectation-... well, I truly hope that the people who are making this false equivalence that they said it here first: unless you are perfect, don't bother hoping for any sliver of honesty or respect. Hope they can sing the same tune something similar happens to them in the future. Maybe the will discover that they, too, are not perfect. Maybe they will find someone that will "put them and their family first" so much that once she realizes she had an issue she didn't even recognize herself at first, she won't try to explicitly discuss the problem, but rather do this bs play of guessing, where one has to be a mind reader of suffer betrayal, humiliation and deception. A selfish asshole, in other words.
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 7:34 PM
You are right, she was the perfect angel and him the selfish asshole. Sure, she and her lover betrayed their partners, humiliated them and deceived them for their selfish pleasure and/or because they couldn't deal with their own problems. But they have it oh-so-hard. I mean it's not as if they had been the ones whose life was shattered because of a half a year long lie. That's easy, working out your fucking schedule and asking for some more help (he just needed to see her text to notice something was wrong, so he wasn't completely oblivious, imagine had she actually, I don't know, talked to him, rather than playing this bs guessing game as if he was a mind reader... crazy, right?)
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matrice
October 22, 2018 at 12:59 PM
"She should once again put his and the son's happiness first at the expense of her own."
Well, given her recent actions, I would say that she didn't *exactly* *always* put their happyness first. In fact, it seems to me that she didn't give much of a damn about how her betrayal would affect her husband and child. In any case, if she had had the good grace to ask, he would have surely preferred to cook dinner and take the kid to play soccer a couple of times rather than being betrayed, humiliated and lied to for months on end. Sure, she "put him first", then stabbed him in the back without a thought about his or their child's feeling when it suited her.
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 7:17 PM
Sometimes people get blindsided and think they know a person better than they do. This does not mean that their love isn't genuine, and a normal human being would have some understanding that even if people are a bit arrogant and self centered, it doesn't mean they are a devil. If they consider that it should follow that all their relationships should degenerate into betrayal, humiliation and lies -if that is a reasonable expectation-... well, I truly hope that the people who are making this false equivalence that they said it here first: unless you are perfect, don't bother hoping for any sliver of honesty or respect. Hope they can sing the same tune something similar happens to them in the future. Maybe the will discover that they, too, are not perfect
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matrice
October 19, 2018 at 7:47 PM
Consider that some texts were all she needed to catch his attention and alert him that there was a problem. Not *that* oblivious and self centered, right? Could have been better. But he was not *that* dense. Imagine what she could have done had she explicitly told him she had an issue when she finally realized she was tired, rather than playing bs guessing games like a fucking teenager and pretend that he read her mind. The other guy was coming at it from a fresh perspective, sometimes the people we see less clearly are those closer to us (which is why it could very well happen that other people know someone has an affair before his partner does). It might be a higher emotional intelligence, a fresh perspective or chance. It doesn't say much about them morally (the fact that they would be willing to betray their spouse, humiliate them, and lie to their faces, with no case for how it would affect their partner or their children, does).
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13 MapleSilver
November 21, 2016 at 11:50 PM
I often just skim over recap and read only the recapper's comments section, but CandidClown, I am so glad I didn't this time. Whether intentionally or not, your recap is hilarious, especially when it comes to Joon Young. You almost make it sound like this episode's focus is Joon Young; who is super adorkable by the way.
But onto more serious matter, I have read pretty much everything said out there about this drama, but how amazing is it that there does not seem to be an end to this well of connections or insights people have with this story. I am thoroughly pleased to discover that you, too, are offering some nuggets of truth I had not read before. I love that about this drama.
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CandidClown
November 22, 2016 at 1:46 AM
D'aww, thanks! Joon-young's my favorite ?
It seems like every week my opinion changes on this show, so it's great to have a new topic to talk about each time!
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14 ⭐ Sera The Ms Temper ⭐
November 22, 2016 at 12:21 AM
I dont have even slightly interest with Yoon Ki, but he sure has a disease or whatever it may call, because his obsession is the worst. He never satisfy with one woman to cheat with. I bet at the end he probably will suffer sexual disease.
Joon Young is sure cutely crazy. lmao.
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samantha1
November 22, 2016 at 12:28 AM
During the latest episodes, I mostly skip the scenes of the mistresses's man. I know Ara can do something to make him pay from all those obsessions her had and I'm eagerly waiting for it. I kinda remember Ye Ji Won's character in Another Miss Oh and what she did with Jin Sang's women..Her husband here seriously needs some heck of waking up..
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15 Dorotka
November 22, 2016 at 3:18 AM
I'm frustrated with both of them. Basically Hyunwoo never listens ans Sooyeon never talks.
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AsianDrama16
November 22, 2016 at 2:14 PM
@Dorotka
In a nutshell, you nailed it.
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16 Lx
November 22, 2016 at 3:27 AM
At least she knows that it isn't right for her to use that(having a hard time) as an excuse to have an affair. To be fair, even if Soo Yeon did speak up and told Hyun Woo that she was having a hard time (before this whole affair thing started), he might have just brushed it off like how he did when they finally sat down to talk in this ep. To be honest, I'm amazed that Soo Yeon has yet to reach her breaking point, considering the workload and amount of stress that she has to handle. She had been suppressing it for too long and with no one to confide to, I guess from her pov, Sun Woo was like an 'emotional comfort shelter' (if this even make sense) to her.
On a side note, I'm shipping Bo Young and Joon Young so badly. And Yoon Ki's parts = skip, skip, skip (unless Ara appears. Hah.)
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AsianDrama16
November 22, 2016 at 2:22 PM
@Lx
"I’m amazed that Soo Yeon has yet to reach her breaking point, considering the workload and amount of stress that she has to handle."
Good point. I think she had just reached it when Sunwoo came along. He was her lifeline. The affair kept her sane.
The message is that Sooyeon is the victim, and her tormentors are all those who condone the kind of stress that she was under -- including Hyunwoo.
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Jazz
November 23, 2016 at 2:42 AM
I'm a bit confused by this argument though. If she was being driven insane, why stay in the marriage? Why not break it off cleanly? Why cheat? Does it give her satisfaction to have two men in her life?
And what makes this even weirder is if that guy was her lifeline, why did he just leave her like that?
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AsianDrama16
November 23, 2016 at 4:45 PM
@Jazz
"If she was being driven insane, why stay in the marriage? Why not break it off cleanly? Why cheat? Does it give her satisfaction to have two men in her life?"
It begins to make sense when we assume that Sooyeon, too, has bought into the idea that a woman should be able to manage both career and family with little or no help from hubby. She thinks there's something wrong with her -- not society. When Sunwoo comes along, all she knows is that he makes her feel better about herself. In other words, she doesn't understand her own motivation.
"And what makes this even weirder is if that guy was her lifeline, why did he just leave her like that?"
Sooyeon never says that she loves Sunwoo, and Sunwoo never says that he loves Sooyeon. We don't really know Sunwoo's motivation, but based on what we've seen of his wife, I think we can see why he might be attracted to Sooyeon. His wife's is scary.
But we do know Sooyeon's motivation. She's stressed out and headed for a breakdown but doesn't realize it. For her, Sunwoo is a refuge, a place to feel safe. If Hyunwoo really loves Sooyeon, he would have honored his vows and protected her. Instead, he's unwittingly also one of her tormentors.
The fact that Hyunwoo is unaware of her desperation is an indictment not only of Hyunwoo but of all husbands who take their wives for granted and are insensitive to their needs.
We can argue that Sooyeon should have talked to her husband and shared her problem, but, as I said earlier, she, too, has been brainwashed into thinking that she shouldn't complain, that she should be able to tough it out.
This doesn't excuse Sooyeon for her adultery, but it makes her a lot more sympathetic, and it sends a message to society in general and couples in particular that they mustn't take each other for granted and should communicate when they feel stressed.
Of course, the key to communication is openness, and from what we've seen of Hyunwoo, this isn't one of his strengths. He's self-righteous and too quick to judge. In this crisis, he should have been willing to listen to Sooyeon and say, "To hell with what society says. I'll take on a more proactive role in raising Joonsoo even if it means being less involved at work and telling my mom to chill."
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17 Meli
November 22, 2016 at 4:49 AM
Well... I think this drama series is not as interesting as the front 4 episodes. I fell asleep after watching this episode in the middle... I can't think of why, yoon ki is even a character in there... Sigh..
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18 yeah
November 22, 2016 at 6:22 AM
what a lame excuse to cheat, her life is hard so she chose to cheat with a married man who noticed her. what a WHORE
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my0
November 22, 2016 at 6:45 AM
Can the admins remove this? It's offensive
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lazielizard
November 22, 2016 at 11:28 AM
+1
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19 Kristine
November 22, 2016 at 6:49 AM
Honestly, I think they should split up. I know there are a lot of opinions on this, but to me if you're thinking about/attracted to one person while being married to another, then you don't love your partner (call me old fashioned). And if you don't notice when they're in pain or how they feel, then you're not giving them the love they deserve, either. Hyun Woo thinks he's the perfect husband, but in reality I feel he's very self-centered. If you're in a relationship with someone you really love, their feelings are just as important as your own. Hyun Woo seems to adore his "smiling wife" but he never notices her pain. She seems to exist for him, in his way of thinking. And he'd thought about having an affair, which took him down a couple of points in my book. If you ask me, they've both gone through suffering and need to split up peacefully. You could argue they need to stay together for the sake of their child, but children notice more than adults realize--and the tension and separation felt in that house could create an unhealthy environment just as splitting up might. And beyond all that--marriage is work, and they should've put more into it than they did, rather than letting things get to this kind of mess. So--those are pretty unorganized thoughts, but I felt it was just a side of this discussion that hasn't been really voiced much. This drama sure does well in making people think :)
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AsianDrama16
November 22, 2016 at 2:35 PM
@Kristine
Splitting up is definitely an option, but then there wouldn't be much of a story. We have a story when the couple learns from their mistakes and, against all odds, forms an even stronger bond. Splitting is the easy way out. Trying to put the pieces together and making the marriage work is tough -- really tough.
In a weird sort of way, Sooyeon's affair was a desperate effort to save her marriage and her family. It was a way to keep from breaking down, to maintain the status quo. From this perspective, we could conclude that she not only loves Hyunwoo but wants to stay together.
Yeah, I know, it's herd to wrap your head around this idea, but it's worth thinking about.
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20 potatodrama
November 22, 2016 at 7:50 AM
The show keeps getting better, but at this point, I'm just shipping Bo-young and Joon-young soooooooo bad!!!
This guy is a gem!
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21 kdramaanalysis
November 22, 2016 at 7:54 AM
There seems to be growing resentment with Soo Yeon and her lack of responsibility for what happened and repeatedly just saying she's sorry. While I still sympathise with her at this point, I do feel that the show needs to show us more of what she's thinking. Her character seems to be stuck in a rut at the moment, and we're only focusing on Hyun Woo's journey.
Have blogged earlier on the episode here: https://kdramaanalysis.wordpress.com/2016/11/20/my-wife-is-having-an-affair-this-week-episode-7/
Once again, reading the comments have led me to think more deeply about Soo Yeon's role in all this, whereas I have very much always been focusing on Hyun Woo's role in the marriage. Thanks everyone!
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22 Kasumi
November 22, 2016 at 12:41 PM
This is a great show. The characters portrayed in the drama are very realistic. I find myself comparing the comments for this show and the comments on "on the way to the airport." I find soo-yeon and su-ah to be similar characters. Both at working moms struggling to balance work and personal lives. Both have insensitive husbands (although su-ah's husband is in a different category). Both are stoic and have trouble recognizing that they are stretching themselves thin. Both have trouble communicating with their husbands and finally both have an affair with a married man. While in OTTWTTA the show/writer shows su-ah's perspective and we see her journey, in TWMWWHAA we see the husband's perspective. This key change seems to make a lot of difference. While most commenters were sympathetic to su-ah's infidelity most commenters view soo-yeon's infidelity harshly. Unlike su-ah's relationship with do-woo, we don't get to see soo-yeon's relationship as a "soulmate romance". We didn't get to see grand romantic gestures or emotionally wrenching moments (here's looking at Annie's death) in how soo-yeon's affair with sun-woo happened. We got a simple text. I also find the concept of "it might be justifiable to cheat if you spouse is an abuser/cheater" interesting. Su-ah's infidelity is viewed postively (even encouraged) because her husband is horrible and the man she cheated with had a horrible wife, while soo-yeon's infidelity is considered terrible because her husband was generally nice to her and sun-woo's wife is not portrayed as a witch. Sun-woo's wife makes the statement "it's a romance if it happens to me but an affair if it happens to others". While the audience is forced to identify with su-ah by showing her perspective in OTTWTTA, here we are outside and see what is happening to soo-yeon and Hyun-woo from the "it's happening to others" perspective. This is the genius of the show. It shows us how depending upon different perspectives we can come to different conclusions about the same/similar event. The show even hints at it by showing us how the different online TOYCRANE commenters respond to Hyun-woo's posts and TUNAMAYO's posts.
I can understand soo-yeon. She just needed a little bit of moral support. I think she stretched herself too thin not because she wanted to be superwoman but because she genuinely wanted to do everything for her husband and child while being a good employee. Hyun-woo took her for granted a lot. To him she was the "pretty and perfect" wife and you can see he took pride in her being able to juggle everything without asking too much from him. Sometimes you just need someone to see you and not you in relation to them.
I don't know if they will be able to work out their problems. But I'm interested in seeing how it ends. Also, I really hope that Bo-young and Joon-young end up together :)
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AsianDrama16
November 22, 2016 at 2:44 PM
@Kasumi
Best review of "My Wife" I've read thus far.
Also, you've piqued my curiosity about "On the Way." I think I'll watch it.
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23 Time
November 22, 2016 at 12:43 PM
I like this show in the sense that this feel so real. Real life, real people, real emotion and real possibility. It frustrating because it hit the nerve that this is life. The cheating case does not have to go all drama, clear and loud. It could be quiet, pathetic and grey.
Each family is unique. We all have our own problem, background, culture and personality. Combine each of us with another person who equally unique, we would have the unique family in all the world.
So I think no standard could be used to clearly judge on any family or person. There is no certain solution and time to solve certain family problem.
We could get frustrated and point finger on how they should do. But in the end, we may just need to sit back and see how the show want us to see the solution of this particular case whether we agree or not.
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24 bodybyzaatar
November 22, 2016 at 2:49 PM
Can I get just applaud the writers for naming the typhoon "Hera"?
As in, the vengeful wife of the god Zeus who goes out of her way to punish her husband's lovers? *kisses fingers* Perfection.
Here's to hoping Ara will go full Hera on Yoon-ki's ass.
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An
November 22, 2016 at 3:09 PM
I'm sure she will. And I hope it'll be as soon as possible because I've been pretty much fast forwarding almost all of Yoon-ki's scenes with his mistresses.
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MapleSilver
November 22, 2016 at 3:50 PM
I did not catch that. Thank you for pointing that out. You're right, this is perfection!
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loveblossom🌸
November 27, 2016 at 7:01 PM
Hahaha! Thanks for pointing that out. xD
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25 Franbergh II
November 22, 2016 at 6:46 PM
If only the actor playing yoon ki is some hot actor, i'll hate him. Luckly he's the one who beating up Go bok dong, so i'm expecting him to hurt a lot.
And joon young is my fav. He reminds me a lot to byun yo han in exgf club. And his spontaneous + his great love for hyun woo is so adorable ?
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26 nomnom
November 23, 2016 at 12:52 AM
This show has totally got me.. I didn't expect anything in the beginning.. But now here i am, cursing on Yoon Ki,praises Bo Young and loving Joon Young..
But for Hyun Woo and Soo Yeong, come on guys only you both can solve this problem. Put your egos aside, try to talk heart to heart , listen to understand not to reply..
And the least but not last, our poor Joon Soo :( This little guy knows what is going on, but he couldn't say anything ,even asking his father to protects his mother .. oohh boy :( :(
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27 JJM
November 23, 2016 at 4:28 PM
Personally, I think there is no real need to excuse the wife. Having an affair is a choice. Life can be hard, husband can be non-receptive, but having an affair is a choice. I am sure she won't be having an affair if the other person is not attractive. I think in general women is probably the stronger gender, and actually more able to handle work, family and self. The tough part is to fight against the desires.
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Bob
April 19, 2019 at 6:31 PM
Having an affair is a choice. forginvng and moving on is a choice too. To quote from 'Misty' it's not your fault, everyone is just trying to live their life.
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28 reellife
December 5, 2016 at 9:14 AM
Reading all the comments led me to think that we need a more accurate and balanced perspective of the situation leading up to the betrayal.
1. Was SY overloaded with parenting and work responsibilities?
Definitely and it was obvious. But, it didn't give her license to have an affair. If the asked, HW does help grudgingly. Also, HW has a wider social network for help. Her mother-in-law also helps, that was how she could visit her father. And she could have asserted herself more at work and parent circle.
I believe SY expected too much of herself and was too perfectionistic.
Apparently, SY found time and created opportunities to carry on an affair with SW - they apparently made out in the hotel at least once but was discovered the second time and when SW dropped SY off after a date. If she could find excuses and time these rendezvous, it show that she had some control over packed schedule. Notice that SY found time to meet SW's wife.
2. Did HW have more time than SY? Apparently so. He had time enough for the claw machine, engaging in social media, and excessive socialising with his friends. Also, he was probably higher up the organisational pecking order to cancel meetings or delegate more.
3. So what were SY's mitigating factors for her affair? HW failed to notice and meet her needs. He took her for granted, did not appreciate her as much, failed to be attentive to recognise her unspoken needs.
SW, in contrast, was more acutely aware of her needs. He gave her license to do she wants, eat something, doing something, and even doing nothing at all (including having an affair with him)!
How could SY be so naive and dumb? He love he offered cost her her marriage, hurt her husband and son, made her guilty, lose self-esteem, and ashamed. It's baffling and inconceivable.
5. Looking on the brighter side of things, I think that the relationship can be salvaged for some of these reasons:
a. Both HW & SY do not really want a divorce even despite their declarations;
b. SY and SW have ceased their meetings and discontinued the affair;
c. SW wife is not planning to divorce him to free him for SY ;
d. SY recognises her wrongdoing and seems remorseful. But HW & SY have a lot more to do;
e. There is social support for reconciliation;
f. Last but not least, HW & SY still love and care for each other but will need to express it better.
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Bob
April 19, 2019 at 6:36 PM
Modern life is isolating. We see is SY has no friends or nearby family. Korea has a very high suicide rate and SY was at a vulnerable point. This isn't about HW. He could have been a really great husband. But SY was still a compulsive 'people pleaser' at her whits end. She had an affair. HW stays out drinking til 2 in the morning on weekdays. Both are unhealthy coping mechanisms.
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29 reellife
December 5, 2016 at 9:37 AM
SY comes across as highly stressed (referring to ability to cope rather than sheer volume of work).
She is tired and wearied out. Note that the sleep at her dad's home revived her. Unfortunately, she failed the distinguish this but instead thought that sleeping with HW would destress her.
In fact, her affair increased her stress exponentially. Alas, she confused sleeping with sleeping around. Lol!
SW is also dastardly to take advantage of SY's weakness. Notice, he wasn't around to help SY with the fallout. But he also gave his wife SY's contact and even asked for her removal from the project team.
If SW was such a good guy and loved SY, he would have helped, protected, and taken responsibility for SY. Instead, he chose to stay with his wife and family.
A lesson to be learned by all who are tempted to have an affair - few having an affair marry!
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30 matrice
October 15, 2018 at 1:15 PM
"Wouldn’t the reason that you’re so angry be that you still love your wife?"
I find this trope idiotic. Someone broke your trust, humiliated you and hurt you. It's pretty understandable that you would hate them, without that meaning that in reality you love them. I don't think it would make sense to treat people that have screwed you over with indifference. They are not strangers, they are people who humiliated you, thus the hatred.
That said, it's pretty idiotic for him to cling to this minutiae and unfortunately points to there being some feelings he still has to deal with.
The truth is that he loved. Not her, but a similar person in his mind, someone that *wouldn't* have destroyed and humiliated him. It's confusing because he can't realize that the map, the idea he had in his brain, does not, in fact, map the territory, that is, reality. But it does not. Putting his affection on that broken ideal makes as much sense as putting them on the woman's twin sister. They look alike, but they are fundamentally (morally, in terms of personality) obviously not the same person.
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matrice
November 3, 2018 at 6:37 AM
If someone I thought a friend scams me and steals my money, the fact that I am angry with him doesn't mean I secretly want to bed him. It's really much simpler than this. If you hate someone you hate them, if you love someone, usually you are not pissed off at them all the time, that's not a healthy relationship. Is this some kind of "no publicity is bad publicity"? Because I think that's demonstrably false too. This is at the level of the elementary school kid bullying his crush because being hated means he is not ignored. Well, he will soon discover that he had much better chances to impress when he was merely ignored.
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31 matrice
October 15, 2018 at 1:22 PM
"Soo-yeon finishes, saying that she knows it isn’t an excuse. She apologizes again, and annoyed, Hyun-woo asks if she had an affair because he didn’t notice how tired she was. He says that that’s how it is for everyone, pointing out that he hasn’t had an easy life either, but he still makes an effort to help with Joon-soo and the house."
A perfectly fair and rational assessment. Unfortunately, that's not what him and many others will think by the end of the series. The point being that while there was obviously blame to go around (not listening, not paying attention, etc.), there is a fundamental moral distinction unknowingly hurting someone and willingly throwing their dignity and feelings under your feet and breaking their trust.
It doesn't make him honor that he thought about cheating, but the fact that he didn't says something significant about the relative lack of self centeredness and perspective (on the other hand, "relative to" part is not hard to beat).
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matrice
November 3, 2018 at 6:31 AM
Actually, I have changed my mind about that. First of all, I think that it's completely unreasonable that he would apologize to her. I mean, he might think "god, what an asshole I am, she deserved so much better, how could I think like that"... had he not just discovered that she had been betraying him, humiliating him and lying to his face for the last half a year. But more technically, thoughts are *really* not actions. We have no control over our thoughts and feelings. It's not as if when I diet I can erase the thought of wanting to eat chocolate, and the feeling of pleasure it gives me. I simply choose not to eat it, because that's the only thing I have control over. It's why people have no right to pretend that someone else love them, only that they treat them with respect. We don't control our emotions, we control our actions. He did control his actions, and didn't cheat on his wife. One's actions are the only place where there is a moral dimension, because that's where we make our choices and exert our free will. The concept of wrongthing or thoughtcrime is horwellian and implicitly totalitarian. Sure, there are noble thoughts and petty thoughts, and we want to be the kind of person who things more of the former, just like we want to be the person that feels optimistically about life rather than someone who is depressed, but the only thing we can control is our actions. Thoughts are also different from intent or ideology, in that those can help predict how we will act in the future. In the case of the MC, his self image is that of someone that wouldn't cheat and he didn't. I find saying that someone acts well because he likes to think of himself as good as not particularly damning. That's the reason honest people are honest and criminal people are criminal, they have a self image and act out in accordance to it -because they don't want to disappoint themselves, the inner voice known as conscience-. His ex might not like it (as she will make plain in the nex chapter), but I don't think it makes him into a bad person -rather, I would say that his behavior was masochistic and was hurting himself, and she had to be the adult for both of them, and break things off... again, no one likes to feel like a second choice, but the key point is that he didn't cheat on anyone-.
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Bob
April 19, 2019 at 6:43 PM
She never once blamed him for the affair, never said he was a bad husband. But whatever she said he would twist her words to make it all about him. Sorry about your fragile ego, Hyun-woo, but the affair wasn't about you. You were merely a bystander.
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32 matrice
October 23, 2018 at 11:18 AM
"Stumping both of them, she asks what kind of affair they mean. Joon-young argues that an affair is an affair, but Bo-young fires back that there are many different kinds, and even just having your heart flutter can be an form of one.
When Hyun-woo scoffs that every man has had an affair then, Bo-young points out that men don’t show interest in women they don’t want to sleep with, so something as simple as a dinner date could be the basis of an affair.
Hyun-woo reads back through the online posts. Everyone seems to be firmly on his side, saying he did nothing wrong, but Bo-young’s words replay in his head. "
This is one case where the internet is right. I find Bo's take on this absolutely ridiculous. Her last line could have come straight out of puritanical Mr. Pence. We are in 2018, it's perfectly normal to have an interest in people of either sexes and wanting to value time spent together. It doesn't mean your intention is to then lie to your spouse and sleep with them. The fact that one finds someone objectively attractive does not mean that she is already half cheating with him/her (otherwise, basically everyone would have cheated with Brad Pitt, or any number of boyband/male kpop group members). It's completely idiotic that this bs would stump the protagonist. Words have meanings, and it doesn't make any sense to muddle the waters by conflating "ehi, that's hot" with cheating on your spouse. They are obviously very different things, ethically, emotionally, physically. When one says "cheating", everyone perfectly understand what one means -and if he means instead that she took a look at Tony Leung and though he was hot, everyone would think him insane-. Bo doesn't have any right to redefine terms as she pleases.
If I was asked whether murder is wrong and started saying "well, one could kill off an entire village, or one might murder an fly", it wouldn't make me, who admittedly had swatted a fly before, the moral equivalent of Jeffrey Dahmer. Even granting the redefinition of a term to encompass acts that nobody thought it would include, it's obvious that this way we are unable to say anything ethically relevant about the subject at all, since a term that cannot distinguish between a fly-swatter (everyone) and a serial killer becomes absolutely useless. As Hyun-woo correctly pointed out, her definition encompasses everyone (not just any man, but any person). Personally, I also find it distasteful in that it contains the notion of a thought-crime. It seems rather obvious to me that there is a sea of difference between wanting to punch someone and actually punching him. The latter is a crime. The former is something that's just inside your head, and as long as you have no intention of actually carrying it out, it's not anybody's business what you think. Thoughts are not actions. I could call sleeping with someone else, kissing him, or even going on a date with him a betrayal -the same way stealing from, beating and...
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matrice
October 23, 2018 at 11:26 AM
The latter is a crime. The former is something that's just inside your head, and as long as you have no intention of actually carrying it out, it's not anybody's business what you think. Thoughts are not actions. I could call sleeping with someone else, kissing him, or even going on a date with him a betrayal -the same way stealing from, beating and killing someone are crimes-. Those are actions. Thinking Tony Leung is hot is not. This is religious-zealot self-flagellating bs, hating yourself for your "inpure" and "sinful" thoughts. It basically sets up a moral standard nobody could live up to, and makes it the moral equivalent of betraying, lying to and humiliating your partner.
What she said is not some profound truth, but a retrograde, idiotic and implicitly totalitarian absurdity. If you insist on using the same word to address both thinking Tony Leung is hot (which doesn't hurt anyone) and backstabbing and lying to your loved one, it just mean we need other terms to distinguish these concepts, because they are obviously different. The first is completely fair, and ethical, it doesn't hurt anyone. The latter means breaking your promise to your spouse, betraying his trust, humiliating and lying to him. The breach of trust is the key point here. It doesn't even have to involve anything sexual, in my opinion. Polyamorous couples sleep with other people, and it's not "an affair", since there is no breach of trust. Lastly, I find it insane that the protagonist would even be stumped by the question. "Ehi, have you ever killed someone?" "Sure, in Call of Duty". If fantasizing about something was the same thing as actually doing it, I would have half the people that interrupt me while I am deeply focused on some task on my conscience. Are we to take seriously, at face value, that if he has never found anybody else attractive besides his wife that would make him a cheater, her moral equivalent? This is insane. The guy presumably had girlfriends (and his wife a boyfriends) that they found attractive and slept with before meeting each other. If they were not together because they split up or one of them died, they might date other people. Obviously, they find other people attractive. It doesn't mean that they want to actually sleep with them and betray their partner's trust (well, in her case, it does, I guess).
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matrice
October 23, 2018 at 1:08 PM
Of course, it's a matter of degrees and what the "thoughts" are. I could see "thoughts" being a problem too. I mean, if you are attracted to other people (not in the causal "this guy objectively looks nice", etc.) and fantasize about being with them, etc., your partner has every right about not finding it acceptable -essentially you stay with her/him because she/he is available, but would really prefer to be with somebody else-, nobody wants to be someone's "second choice" -not really what the partner wants, but "just the best" he could get his/her hands on-. Nobody wants to be a choice of convenience. It's actually not a happy situation for either person, since on one hands, one of the partner is unfulfilled, because he/she settled, and she/he doesn't really get what she/he wants, while on the other hand, the other person feels used, exploited, and not really valued, somebody's second choice, not feeling really valued as someone important and truly loved, but only tolerated for convenience until the partner can get his/her hands on someone "better". Not really get for self worth. It's a situation that hurts both people, one being frustrated and unfullfilled, the other feeling somewhat unwanted, unappreciated, not truly valued loved, and possibly having her/his self worth questioned.
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matrice
October 23, 2018 at 1:24 PM
With all that, we also have to acknowledge, that this is not really "cheating". The people doing that could be treating the partner unfairly (everybody deserves to be in a relationship where they are truly valued, rather than with someone that would rather be with someone else, or somewhere else, or in another situation -maybe they would like to sleep around, but can't, and are just settling momentarily for the ease of access and physical comfort, while the other partner would like to pursue a serious relationship-), as well as condemning themselves to unsatisfaction. It's a bit similar to what the protagonist's ex-girlfriend felt, though not exactly, since I think that the protagonist was rather confused and not really aware of what he wanted. Actually, while in general it would be better for partner's goals to be aligned (i.e. either seeing each other as valuable rather than a second choice they decided to settle on), it's also true that people can be confused about what they want, and could be hurting each other without meaning to -it's not necessarily that someone knows he would rather be with someone else and chooses to settle, as with the protagonist, he could be confused about something that appears perfectly obvious to their partner-. Whatever the case, the fact that he *didn't*, in fact, pursue a relationship with his current wife while he was with his previous girlfriend exactly means that he *didn't* cheat. He should have probably shown a little more self-knowledge and courage, and been the one to split up with her -and she was understandably pissed, because no one wants to be a "second choice", or to be with someone that would rather be somewhere else, but he didn't cheat on her, and even the extent where he realized what he himself wanted is unclear-. Again, it's not good to make someone feel like a second choice, but that's different from cheating.
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matrice
October 23, 2018 at 1:28 PM
That's not intentionally deceiving someone.
matrice
October 23, 2018 at 1:35 PM
The ironic thing is that Bo was apparently cheated on, so she should be very aware of the difference between her thinking Tony Leung is nice to look at and her husband lying to her and betraying her trust, intentionally. Even with the point I made below about people not being clear about their priorities and possibly hurting each other unintentionally (by being with someone that they "settled" on, a "second choice"), that's different from intentionally, deliberately breaking someone's trust, humiliating, betraying and lying to them. That's not something you do by accident or because you are confused (you might split up from someone because you are unsure about what you want, and then regret it, but that's different: you respected the social agreement and didn't breach any boundaries, acted with honesty and showed him/her respect... people could ignore or not appreciate each other, hurting each other without meaning to, but that's different from intentionally betraying, humiliating and lying to someone, and deliberately deceiving them).
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matrice
October 23, 2018 at 2:07 PM
I don't like the way they attempt to muddle the waters with tangential points, such as when he assumed that the gift was for the boyfriend, etc. I mean, it wasn't true, but on the other hand, it's not as if her remembering his birthday is a big deal in the context of the fact that she had been backstabbing, betraying, humiliating, deceiving him for six months -and he surely would have preferred her not to buy him anything and not lying to him-. It's also not unreasonable that he wouldn't trust her after having just caught her red-handed cheating on him -she had been lying to his face for the last half a year, so not trusting her is simply common sense-. So she didn't lie about the gift. Big deal, she lied about something much bigger and much more important for months on end. The gift is more like twisting the knife in the wound. Like, you kill my dog, and then smile at me and give me chocolate and flowers. I could tell you where to shove them.
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matrice
October 23, 2018 at 2:31 PM
In other words, I don't think there is moral equivalency here. "Look, she lied to you the past half a years, betrayed and deceived you, etc". On the other hand, you were unattentive, and now you are angry at her, have verbal rows and don't trust her. Well, not exactly morally equivalent -he is not fighting with someone that didn't do anything to him, he has every right to mistrust and be angry at her, and if you backstab me you can't exactly complain that I then view you as an enemy, or don't like you, or at the very least am angry at you-. You can't backstab people and then wonder why they don't give you the benefit of the doubt, or, like her lover's wife, want to say stuff to hurt you. You didn't give a shit about their feelings, and they don't give a shit about yours. If you want people to treat you well, you treat them well. If you want them to not fuck with you and leave you alone, you don't fuck with them and leave them alone. If you backstab them or you break their personal boundaries, humiliate them and deceive them, they won't be too well disposed towards you. Simple action/reaction. All this stuff about her having a busy life and what cheating means, and his flaws, is tangential to the fact that he was backstabbed and lied to for months. He could always strieve to understand more about how he could improve, but the basics of what went down are rather clear, it's not even close, and linear time does matter (in other words, there is a difference if I punch you in the face out of the blue, or if I punch you in the face after you have assaulted me: in the first case, I am an asshole, in the second case I am someone who is responding to an attack... the fact that she backstabbed him and lied to him for the past half a year is kind of fundamental when evaluating his anger and distrust towards her -without it, he is a paranoid asshole, with it, a perfectly reasonable human being that had been betrayed, humiliated and deceived for months on end, and undestandably doesn't like nor trust the people that did that to him-). Two things can be true at the same time. One is that he has much that can be improved, the other that none of that is relevant to the evaluation of what was done to him: it doesn't explain or justify betraying, humiliating and deceiving him for months on end in any way, shape or form.
matrice
October 23, 2018 at 2:43 PM
It's fake profundity, the irritating thing is to see the protagonist flop around like a fish out of water and second guessing himself about these basic points. "Have you stolen a car?" "No" "But stealing could come in many forms... have you thought you liked your neighbour's car? That's kind of like stealing the idea of it. If your heart flutter when you see it, it's a kind of theft, and if you borrow it for a ride, that's because you want to do unspeakable things to the hole where you would normally put the oil". Crazynes, insanity. He should have called her out more forcefully on her bs: it's pretty easy to dismantle, he raised some obvious points about it being a meaningless term if it could apply to anything anyone does, and also pointed out that when people say that word, everyone perfectly understand it -just like when you talk about a car, you mean a metal vehicle with four wheels, not a whooden one propelled by horse power-, but he should have done more and completely left the arugment decimated, rather than wasting time thinking about this obvious idiocy and wasting time asking about it to randos on the internet. I mean, the idea is so idiotic that they shouldn't really have left it as a "maybe" in the hair, with a few objections, but shut it down as it deserved to be.
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Bob
April 19, 2019 at 6:55 PM
Having a close relationship with another human being is not 'stealing a car'. Unless you consider a wife to be the husband's possession. Soo-yeong had hit that 'dangerous age' where youth is fading and responsibilities were accumulating and she was struggling through some 'personal stuff'. Apparently a third of the population has gone through much the same thing
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33 Jackpapa376
November 21, 2021 at 3:29 AM
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34 Jackpapa376
January 5, 2022 at 6:14 PM
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35 Jackpapa376
January 6, 2022 at 2:38 PM
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36 Jackpapa376
January 6, 2022 at 3:23 PM
It was hard to understand SY and trust her love. SY had a complicated character and kept so many things in her smiling face. IMO, she seemed to be a selfish girl. In the early and later EP’s, we could see her character that she was a person whom did not want to argue, confront, or upset anyone. She said here that she should early inform her husband HW about her overworks and struggling but she had not done it because she felt that it was her guilt and could not face her husband to share her burdens. So, if we were on her side, the 1st affair might happen unintentionally. However, she CHOSE to repeat having the affair if it was not red-handed caught up at the hotel. She kept smiling face in the past 6 months pretending that the 1st affair did not happen. If she felt guilty in the past 6 months, she should share her burdens to her husband rather than choosing to have the 2nd affair. She dared not to face her husband to share her struggling but she dared to betray him and sleep with another man. This meant that she did not care her affair mistake and she might even love SW more than her husband.
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37 Jackpapa376
January 8, 2022 at 6:28 AM
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38 Jackpapa376
January 8, 2022 at 7:24 AM
I had a big doubt of why SY asked her husband HW if he had never cheated on her in this EP. I expected that he did have an affair in the past and the K-drama would tell us that story. However, the later EP’s of K-drama did not clearly show that HW cheated when he was dating with his ex-girl friend or had an affair with any girl after his marriage with SY. So, he seemed to be a honest guy and was the affair victim in the story.
What Bo-Young describing that Heart flutter was considered as an affair did not make sense at all and disconnected to the wife’s question above. Emotional feeling affair (though, heart flutter) was not good for the married couple but the emotional along with the “physical” affair was much worse. The mistake scale was huge different. Physical affair is the action.
I just watched the original 2007 ‘this week’ J-version drama. The main story was not much different, though it was adjusted to reflect the differences in timing, culture, lead actor/actress, etc. But there was one ‘key point’ in the K-drama that the K-writer purposely twisted from the original J-version to confuse the Viewers to generate their own thinking about the wife’s character. In J-version, the husband had unintentionally cheated once during the wife’s pregnancy and she knew it. When this cheating question was asked, the J-husband confessed that he had an affair mistake once. The J-wife said to him that she knew about the affair but pretended not to know about it because she was pregnant and loved her husband. I felt like no one was perfect - both husband and wife did the affair mistakes and also were the affair victims. I did not feel frustrated when the J-husband would forgave and came to start the husband/wife relationship again because I did not compare the husband’s mistake in ignoring his wife’s difficult time and burdens VS the wife’s adultery mistake.
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39 matrice
April 4, 2022 at 4:20 AM
I didn't like the equivocation peddled in this episode, which bordered on gaslighting the affair's victim.
No, there are most definitely not "many types of cheating" in the sense implied here. There could be purely physical affairs or emotional affairs where they develop an actual relationship. But words have meaning, and the word "cheating" has a well established meaning that everyone understands. It does not include having fantasies, and for that matter it does not even include having sex with other people (there are open marriages and polyamory, after all). The issue here is the months long deception.
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40 matrice
April 4, 2022 at 7:14 AM
Actually, if he had actually *had* an affair and she cheated for revenge I would be utterly supportive of her, and would not even consider it cheating. In fact, I think that her husband and her lover's wife should engage in a bit of revenge sex. But the truth of the matter is that neither her husband nor her lover's wife would ever cheat on their spouses, as clearly demonstrated by the fact that they didn't sleep with other people even after discovering their half a year long deception.
In that sense, I completely hated the handwawy muddling of the waters that this episode engaged in by peddling this equivocation, which frankly felt like gaslighting. Him "apologizing" for hurting her because of a fantasy, when he didn't actually *do* anything is simply crazy, particularly in light of the fact that she *did* actually have an affair for six months that would still be continuing. Given this reality, not only did she not deserve an apology, he should wish he actually *had* an affair given that she was betraying him as well. The notion that she would cheat on him as revenge for a *fantasy* is so far out there it might as well come from the moon. Again, there is a difference between fantasy and reality.
In light of this equivocation between thoughts and actions, It's even crazier that she claims that her affair "just happened". What, she slipped on a banana peel and fell on his genitals? She carried on the affair for six months, she was the one that reached out to her lover after their first encounter, she deliberately lied to and deceived her husband, organized meetings via text messages, booked an hotel room while making it seem like she had a work meeting. None of these things "just happened", they were planned and put into action. By her.
Actions is something we have control over, which is why we are responsible for them. Thoughts and feelings are not something we have control over, which is why the concept of "though crime" is ludicrous. We can, of course, choose what we concentrate and focus our mind on, but we don't control every random thought and emotion we feel, the best we can do is choose whether to act on them or not. For example, you cannot consciously choose to fall in love with someone, but you can choose whether to act on it or not. Him being made to feel guilty over a fantasy is absurd and offensive: far from apologizing, he should have firmly rejected the attempt to gaslight him.
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41 matrice
April 4, 2022 at 9:35 AM
"a spouse who gets angry still has love for their partner, while someone who calmly accepts the end no longer has any feelings for the other person."
This is complete hogwash. He might or might not have, but anger as a signal is meaningless. He was as or even more angry with her lover, does it mean that he is secretly in love with him? Does her lover's wife anger towards her means that she is attracted to her? No. It makes perfect sense for him to be angry at the half a year long deception of someone who abused his unconditional trust, because she led him by the nose. That would be true irrespective of him loving her or not. They wronged him, so he is angry at them. It does not make sense for him to be indifferent to them, the same way a victim of Bernie Maddoff would not be indifferent to Bernie Maddof when the latter walked away with their money. A long time later, down the line, he might be indifferent, or he might still hate them, but none of those would have any relationship to lingering feelings of affection. For that matter, he should take onboard the fact that his wife is not the "perfect woman" he was in love with, who existed solely in his head, and the "choice of least regret" would be to accept the sunken cost fallacy and stay for fear of not being able to find anyone better. But he can find someone better: for example the wife of his wife's lover would never cheat, even after he betrayed her, and in that respect she is like him: that's better, by definition, of someone that would deceived you and cheat with a married man with kids (him not being unattached adding another layer of cruelty and disgust, two families ruined over a superficial whim).
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42 matrice
April 4, 2022 at 9:51 AM
Although it was phrased in an ham-fisted way, from a policy standpoint the advice to *not* pander to the chat group moms is golden, and could have saved them a lot of trouble.
He is obviously still angry, justifiably so, and struggling to find a new place to land from his previous position of "she is a perfect woman" to the reality of "she deceived me for the past half a year". Despite the self righteous commenters (who no doubt would act even less graciously and rationally if they were in his place), that characterization is perfectly realistic, it would not make sense for him to be calm, fair and balanced after she caused him such a gigantic emotional trauma.
Must say that her giving up and taking the kid was a let down, particularly after he absurdly apologized for having a fantasy and thinking she was looking revenge for that (pure hogwash, he let himself be gaslighted). Frankly speaking, the number of real people that would apologize for a fantasy to someone that actually cheated on them for half a year is, for all intents and purposes, basically zero (and it's right to be). He should not have been added to the cohort of imaginary characters that do that. And her explanation was indeed absurd: neither of them noticed, and instead of revising her priorities and talking to her husband, she cheated on him and deceived him for half a year. With someone with a kid. That's something that is not "covered" by the explanation: her knowing he was married with children and having sex with him anyway, despite his wife not having done anything to her, even being the one to miss him and reach out to him after their first encounter.
Frankly, no one would buy a Wall Street exec working 60 hours week deceiving their spouse because of "stress". And it's unclear how adding a lover to the mix would clear up her schedule (though she certainly could "magically" find hours she was not supposed to have when she wanted to meet him and have an affair).
We are in "Crazy Rich Asian" territory, where I hear the complaints about the classist family, but throw them out of the window when I learn about the cheating. For that matter, her lover's wife is also a woman affected by the same societal problems, and she obviously would never cheat on her husband, even after he betrayed her.
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43 matrice
April 4, 2022 at 12:23 PM
"Hyun-woo is understandably frustrated, saying that he thought they were doing well"
"Soo-yeon answers that she thought they were doing well too"
"she went out of her way to smile and be relaxed "
"she wasn’t particularly happy or unhappy."
"Soo-yeon finishes, saying that she knows it isn’t an excuse"
"Hyun-woo asks if she had an affair because he didn’t notice how tired she was"
"ends up just apologizing again, saying that she should have told him she was having a hard time. Still, she cries that she can’t face him anymore,"
Regarding the divorce, the drama was perfectly clear about her montivations, and they are not the ones mentioned here. The observation about the husband's treatment are disingenuous: the first episodes have made it perfectly clear that this is not how they usually interacted (they never fought). I find it insane that you would find it ridiculous for someone that just discovered she had been lying to him for the last half a year to be angry. This Monday morning quarterbacking is beyond irritating, I and everyone in this comment section (you included) would behave the same (the self righteous commenters probably much worse). It's perfectly realistic for him to act this way after his trauma, he could be the sweetest guy in the world and he would still behave this way: he is hurt and lashes out, and that's perfectly understandable and justified.
Let's not forget that he is the victim here, he never cheated nor deceived her, while she lied to his face, while they never knew she had a problem, and when she realized it she chose to cheat on him instead of talking to him. He even apologizes for his fantasies, thinking that she wanted revenge, which was pretty crazy. He is a thousand times better than her lover, that cheated on his wife and would have deceived her indefinitely, treated her as an object to dispose as he saw fit, robbing her of her ability to choose (not that his lover had any problem with it, no female solidarity from someone that would sleep with her married husband).
I think they should divorce but considering she was the one that deceived him I find it pretty insulting that she would be the one to leave. I will note that she does it because she is guilty, so it's not like she is one of the insane commenters around here:
"ends up just apologizing again, saying that she should have told him she was having a hard time. Still, she cries that she can’t face him anymore,"
Frankly, the husband she horrifically betrayed is angry and understandably treats her like an enemy (having just discovered the "perfect woman" he though he knew abused his unconditional trust), but I doubt she would find someone that wouldn't cheat on her even after her betrayal and here even apologized for his fantasies (he shouldn't have, what is this, though crime?). But between the two, the one that should be trying to keep him and make things work should be her, instead.
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44 matrice
April 4, 2022 at 1:00 PM
I see that people here are demonizing the protagonist. Frankly speaking, I think that the characterization is on point. He is a good man (as she herself acknowledge), and her problem did not really have to do with him. She could have talked to him and didn't, and she acknowledges that she is the guilty party, but she does not really have a good, strong reason for her actions (I get the feeling that this might not be evasion but her not knowing herself and acting on a whim). As should be obvious, he is angry and not perfectly calm, balanced and perfectly fair. Nor should we expect him to be (though he is trying, and even asked her if she resent him for his fantasy, even crazily apologizing for thought crime, or for not seeing something she didn't see herself and that she lied about, choosing to have an affair rather than talk about her issues).
He was not "verbally abusive", he did not insult her and call her names (s***t, etc.), he simply pushed back on her claim with well warranted skepticism, because frankly when hearing that you have been deceived, and two families were destroyed, because of "stress", it's not exactly clear what she means (is it because he didn't notice? No, she clearly states that it is not because he didn't notice, she didn't either, and she could have told him when she did but chose to cheat instead). How does having a lover addresses her problem (being overworked)? It seems like it would only make it worse. For that matter, she is a graphics designer with *a single child*, there are much more challenging professions (Navy Seals, astronaut, etc.) where decisions are literally life and deaths, and there are families with multiple children, or children with special needs, where both parents work full time. They are even rich: they could have put the kid in a boarding school or found someone to tackle some of the housework. She had options, as she herself acknowledged.
Pushing back on her arguments is not an aggression, it's what you do when you have an argument. If she makes a claim he is not obliged to accept it at face value. He is also a victim of her deception here, and if there was someone abusive in their relationship, the half a year long deception and the emotional scars she inflicted him clearly point to her as the abusive side of the relationship. In terms of arguments, they didn't have any, and even now he pushes back and challenges what he says, treating her as an enemy instead of her partner (since he trusted her unconditionally and she abused that trust, nothing about this is or should be surprising to any one with the slightest bit of empathy, which apparently includes a good portion of Monday morning quarterbacks with savior complexes that no doubt would be cursing their partners to high even if they put them through just a fraction of the emotional abuse the protagonist suffered at her hands.
Frankly, her lover was scum that betrayed his wife and was ready to deceive her indefinitely,...
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matrice
April 4, 2022 at 1:01 PM
indefinitely, that claimed to love her, but didn't leave his wife, and then fired her without even speaking to her, and badmouthed her to his wife (nobody and worthless). He treated his wife like his property, someone he was entitled to, rather than being honest and giving her a choice to make a fully informed decision. Well, *that guy* does not get cheated on. His wife, like the protagonist, would never cheat, even after discovering the deception. Seems like who you marry is the deciding factor here, more than him not being the perfect human, because he certainly was better than the snake she cheated with.
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matrice
April 4, 2022 at 2:19 PM
In general, as the following demonstrates, they are completely detached from what the show actually says and insert their own ideological explanations where no one has any agency, and we are all puppets controlled by a shadow construct, "society"... this discharging all your responsibility on some objective ills, that are in and of themselves true, is the equivalent of someone blaming impotency on climate change.
Exibit A:
"why men are so easily forgiven when they cheat"
That might have been the case in the past, but clearly this is not an ubiquitous or even a majority opinion, and is not a concern in their particular circumstances, as her husband is not sexist in that way, consider what he thinks of his wife's lover, and the way he treats his cheating when talking about it with his wife:
“It’s not important why he cheated. What’s important is that he did cheat.”
Does it sound like what you said above? No.
"when a wife cheats that the husband should feel ashamed of being cheated on (because he wasn't the one who cheated instead)."
As shown above, the husband is perfectly gender neutral in his condemnation of deception, so he does not share this differential view. He also clearly does not wish to have "cheated first", this is so disconnected from actually happens in the episode that he even apologizes for a fantasy he had. Not sure this phrase actually applies to any real person, it does not even make sense... what does it mean, that if you are not going to be loyal then I wish I had been disloyal first? If this means that your partner was not worthy of your loyalty I would agree with this as a general statement, though of course you can't know the future so that's a moot point. I would say that revenge sex would be a "cheating" I approve of (like her lover's wife sleeping with someone else as revenge), though I wouldn't consider it cheating as their adulterous spouses had already broken that wow.
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45 matrice
April 5, 2022 at 1:02 AM
re: the divorce being harder on her schedule and her being alone
I agree factually with the first point. For that matter, I don't understand how a lover was supposed to ease her schedule: I think it would make it more hectic. For some reason, she was able to find time for the affair despite not having it for herself. And in terms of doing what she wanted, she hasn't really changed anything in her life, and stress-wise she seems to be in the same place.
As for the second point, she is not really alone: she has friends (not many, apparently, but that's not exactly something that her husband could have helped her with: it was stated in the drama that she was kind of a loner, like her kid), and their parents (who they could have asked for help in raising the kid, etc. if they wanted some me-time).
That said, I tried, but I can't really empathize with her. The bit I don't get, even granting everything above (the stress, and the affair -though as I said I don't get how having a lover would ease her schedule), it's not clear to me why she planned to continue seeing her lover and lying to her husband indefinitely. They broke it off easily, and she was unable to even look him in the face (or live together) due to her shame. I don't get why she didn't feel such shame before he discovered the truth, in her place guilt would have eaten me alive, and I would have been unable to last a day, let alone torture myself by continuing the affair and keeping it a secret indefinitely.
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matrice
April 5, 2022 at 1:06 AM
The point, I guess, is that I don't really think she deserves to be with him, but if they divorce, it's pretty insulting that she is the one breaking it off while he is the one that, while struggling with the emotional and mental health issues she caused him, his anger, etc. is making an attempt to understand her (at fits and starts, granted, but he is trying and the grotesque apology for the though crime of having a fantasy, in which he allowed himself to be gaslighted unjustly, is proof positive of that). Instead, she has no patience and wants to give up (though in this episode she makes clear it's due to her own guilt), and generally does not make an equal attempt to understand the paint she caused him. Surely between the two of them, given that she was the one that betrayed his trust, the one more in needs of some growing/who took the other for granted is her?
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46 matrice
April 5, 2022 at 1:18 PM
Found the "drop" and "support her with compliments" bit patronizing and unintentionally sexist, basically making her (and females) out to be socially inept (cannot read non-verbal cues/communication) and emotionally dependent on male approval. This is not what his wife is saying. The issue was not "selfishness" but "unawareness", on both sides: she was overworked, neither of them noticed, and when she noticed she chose to have an affair and lie to him about how she felt, putting up a facade, rather than talk to him about her problems (lack of communication). She was not whinily fishing for compliments like an emotionally insecure teenager with their dad/teacher.
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47 matrice
April 6, 2022 at 1:22 AM
I really cannot simpatize with her, and more than the sex it's due to the deception and her decision to continue with it indefinitely, plus any lack of visible and lasting character change that makes it clear that she is no longer the kind of person that would continue to cheat and lie to her partner until caught, having the change to reverse course every day and choosing not to. I get the stress, and will accept the one-night stand (thought I fail to see in what way that would address her problem), but then it's not as if remorse kicked in and she broke it off, came clean and there was visible and lasting character change. She was the one that reached out to her lover after her first encounter, she planned to continue the affair indefinitely, choosing her lover over her family every day for the last six months by continuing the affair and deception.
In all this time, every second of every day she colud have stopped the affair and even chosen to be honest in her relationship. Instead, even when her husband caught on to the fact that there was a problem and asked whether everything was okay, she chose to put up a front and lie, and spurned his offer to spend time together to reconnect in favor of sleeping with her lover. The continued deception is a sticking point for me, praticularly given how easy it was to break off the affair and stop seeing her lover, or how guilty she feels now (can't look her husband in the eye or even stand to be in the relationship), compared to how she chose to continue deceiving him.
She doesn't even make the excuses some commenters do, and fully acknowledges that she cannot blame her husband for not knowing something she herself didn't know, and that when she realized her issue she chose to cheat and did not tell her husband the truth, putting up a fake front. The issue here is that even accepting all of that, it does not explain the fact that there are other considerations, such as respect for her husband and desire not to hurt/humiliate/deceive him, and that even granting she made a mistake once due to the reasons above, she was then the one that reached out again to her lover, and chose to continue seeing him and lying to her husband. This was not a one night stand, she did not have any intention of stopping, and it's not clear that there has been any visible and lasting character change with respect to the person she was during the affair -the only difference is that now her husband knows about it-.
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48 matrice
April 6, 2022 at 3:03 AM
Her lover saw her when she had her epiphany and had her mask down, and probably certain things are more easily seen from an outside perspective (which is why therapy is valuable).
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49 matrice
April 6, 2022 at 3:49 AM
I don't really think that the words of her female colleague would count as "logic/logical" in any universe. The idea of equating a fantasy with reality is simply crazy sophistry (if even that. The notion of equivocating and pretending that what you think and what you do are in any way comparable is just crazy. By this standard, everyone including celibate priests and monks is guilty of cheating, because essentially everyone has fantasies. You don't control your thoughts and emotions (you can focus your mind, of course, but don't have control over any random thought and desire), you control how you act on them, and this is the reason any sane society that was not completely Orwellian would abhor the notion of a "thought crime", but would held people accountable for their actions, be it criminally or socially. I reiterate: having fantasies is perfectly okay, sometimes I wonder what it would be like to have chosen a different profession and be on a beach selling martinis, it does not mean I will leave my job and transfer to Bahamas. It's a fantasy, everyone has them, you are not guilty of a single thing. For that matter, even sleeping with other people could be perfectly ok in an open couple or polyamorous relationship, those are not cheating either.
The issue here is the betrayal of trust and there are reasonable expectations in a relationship. Everybody understands what cheating means. It does not "exist in multiple forms" as intended in this episode. Certainly it could range from purely physical to an emotional relationship, from one-night stand to months or year long sustained affairs, but everyone basically has an idea of what it means, and having a fantasy is not it (the fact that your partner, or anyone for that matter, should hold you accountable for your thoughts and equivocate between that and actions seems frankly completely ludicrous and intrusive, an ancient Roman wouldn't have treated like that even a slave). For that matter, let's remember that we are not talking of a one-night stand after which she came clean and showed visible and sustained long term change: she reached out to her lover after their first encounter and they were planning to continue their affair and lie to their spouses indefinitely (and to her lover's spouse even after their affair was discovered). The notion he should apologize for a thought, and think that it would warrant cheating as revenge is frankly disgusting and, I really must say, beyond the level of controlling/possessive, entering in "totalitarian" territory.
Side note: I found her comments comparing a grown human, responsible for their actions, to a vase, in a damnsel-in-distress kind of way, and suggesting she was looking at him to save her with his male attention, the most patronizing and sexist thing I have ever read. Also untrue (she fully acknowledged that neither knew of her issue, her lover caught her with her mask down when she just realized it (and probably from the...
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matrice
April 6, 2022 at 3:50 AM
Side note: I found her comments comparing a grown human, responsible for their actions, to a vase, in a damnsel-in-distress kind of way, and suggesting she was looking at him to save her with his male attention, the most patronizing and sexist thing I have ever read. Also untrue (she fully acknowledged that neither knew of her issue, her lover caught her with her mask down when she just realized it (and probably from the outside these things are easier to spot, which is why therapy is useful), and instead of tellig her husband she lied to him and put up a front. The first inkling he got that things might not be alrigth (when he suspected her infidelity) he reached out to her and asked how she was, saying that their should spend time together to reconnect. She again lied that she was fine, and spurned his offer to sleep with her lover (strange in and of itself, since her husband gave her what she wanted and she intended to stay married to him). She acknowledges he couldn't have known and that she purposefully lied to him instead of telling her about her problems, and makes it clear that him not realizing this was not the reason for her deception.
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matrice
April 6, 2022 at 3:50 AM
Might I add, this preaching from the bully pulpit from someone that physically assaulted a cheater (if I recall correctly).
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50 matrice
April 6, 2022 at 11:13 AM
I must say that I am a bit disconcerted about the wife's lack of character development. They both need to learn and grow, but after all, while they had communication problems and were both clueless about her stress issue (and when she realized the problem she lied to him that everything was ok and never told him about the issue... recall that when he realized not everything was a-ok he asked how she was and proposed taking time to reconnect, to which she lied about being alright and needing to work, planning to sleep with her lover), she was the one that was ready to intentionally continue cheating and deceiving her partner indefinitely, not him. She basically run a spike through the hart of the relationship, shattering his trust. And even if we don't consider the husband's plight, the encounter she had with her lover's wife the last episode should have triggered some major soul searching: she was willing to continue deceiving her indefinitely even after the affair was discovered, and previously was willing to deceive and risk destroying both of their families, hurting (besides her own husband and family) people she did not know and that did nothing to wrong her.
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matrice
April 6, 2022 at 11:14 AM
Over a relationship that was gone just like that, them letting go as easily as snow melts in the hot sun. For what? For someone that was luck enough to catch her when she had her guard down and had just realized her problem (probably easier to see it from the outside and talk about it with a stranger, the reason therapy works). Also, a philanderer that cheated on his wife and the mother of his children. That claimed to love her but didn't leave his wife and nor, later, the project, chosing to "fire" her from the project without even discussing it with her first (in that sense, making her choices for her and disposing of her life like he planned to do by continuing to deceive his wife -something she supported-, treating both of the women in his life as property that he could dispose of as he wished -not giving his wife the ability to make and informed decision and potentially choose to leave him-, and then badmouthing her to his wife (a "nobody", a person not "worthy enough to meet").
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matrice
April 6, 2022 at 11:31 AM
Also, she was not forthcoming with the truth (hiding the fact that her lover was her project's client, and promising to not come in contact with him, while knowing they worked together and actually physically meeting him one-to-one just the day after, making that probably among the fastest promises she broke in her life). She was also tricky thruthing, not willing to be honest and reveal information about the affair without ample prodding. She did not really evolve: even before, she knew what she was doing was disgusting and didn't think her husband was a monster that deserved it (she thought of him as a good person), but that didn't stop her from being ready to cheat and deceive him for life. Only to feel such guilt that she now cannot look at him or stay with him, while before she sought out her lover after her first encounter and did not have any problem continuing the relationship behind her husband's back and lying to his face indefinitely).
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matrice
April 6, 2022 at 11:31 AM
All this should be cause for major introspection and epiphanies and visible/long lasting character change (even just the encounter with her lover's wife should have triggered some soul searching), since she was responsible for destroying two families over a superficial whim and a philandering husband that threw her under the bus when she was no longer convenient (which seems indicative of much larger behavioral problems than her husband not noticing her problem before she did, or not second guessing her lies about her mental state until it was too late... he is not the one going around having affaris with married wives with children of their own, continuously reaching out to them and all the way lying to his wife, regardless of the potential damage he might cause to his own and his lovers' family). "Why did I do it?", "Was it worth it for someone that threw me under the bus without even asking me first?", "Was it worth it for someone that would cheat on their spouse, but lie to them to prevent them from even having the possibility of leaving him, while he was two timing them and didn't even have the grace to leave them for the person he claimed to love?", "Was it worth hurting someone I didn't know over an affair I was never going to put an end to, but that then was ended like snow in the sun, and evidently meant nothing?".
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matrice
April 6, 2022 at 11:34 AM
Her husband is running around trying to understand what went wrong and being lectured by the net and all his friends. He is doing all the learning and growing and character development, while she is doing none. She didn't have any epiphany after her affair or after the encounter with her lover's wife. She knew before that she was doing something disgusting and that her husband didn't deserve it, and that didn't stop her from being willing to continue the affair and deceive him for life anyway. Between the two of them, she is the one most in need of deep reflection and character develpment, to become at least someone that wouldn't destroy let alone her own, but even another family of people she didn't know, over a selfish whim, a relatioship she didn't break off and planned to continue indefinitely, and that ended like nothing, without a whimper.
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matrice
April 6, 2022 at 11:35 AM
They should both grow, but her flaws were much bigger than being a bit indifferent, and so she should do the majority of she introspection/epiphanies, while she did not have any major realizaton, while at the same time her husband is doing all the growing and having all the epiphanies. It's part of a trend of her being passive (the only active thing she did was reach out to her lover after their first encounter) and not really doing anything to atone/redeem herself (not that she could, but she does not even try), basically she "broke it" and he is "fixing it" and learning all the lessons.
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matrice
April 6, 2022 at 11:36 AM
No lessons for her? Even assuming she did everything right in her marriage (clearly false, they had communication issues, namely she lied to her husband and hid her problems, and he was not a mind reader, though he tried to reach out when he started to suspect things were not alright, and when he asked if she was ok and whether she wanted to spend some time to reconnect, she lied that she was fine and had to work, only to go sleep with her lover), she was willing to, and destroyed, another person's family (not to mention her own), as made plain by her last encounter with her lover's wife. Surely that's indicative of *some* character flaw or misplaced priorities. Maybe something bigger than having uninformed opiniongs/beign ignorant and uneducated on the difficulties of working and housework/child rearing.
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matrice
April 6, 2022 at 11:46 AM
She was clearly the one most in need of soul searching, and the one that doesn't seem have had any epiphany.
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matrice
April 6, 2022 at 11:49 AM
She should micro-analyze where she went wrong at least as much, and frankly much more, than her husband. Being as serial cheater and someone ready do deceive someone for a lifetime, risking to destroy her own and her lover's family over a whim, a relationship that ended like the easiest thing in the world, it would be pretty natural for her to do as much as he is trying to do to to understand her (with all the anger, etc. in the middle) to understand him instead.
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