Oh boy. This is going to be a long answer. That probably wonβt actually answer your requestβ¦
Oooph. Best of All Time is very hard to give out.
Part 1 of why I have refused for several years now to officially give an entry for this category of the Round Up is, because of who I am as a person, and because of the Royal Kiss Analyst Bit, I would feel like I couldn’t truly make an entry in it, without first having rewatched all the kisses of dramas I watched that year, and probably all the ones of dramas I didn’t as well, analyse them accordingly to my Analyst checklist, and then somehow come up with a legitimate ranking system that both felt like it covered the very subjective “Favourite” and more objective “Best”, and then somehow actually put that in writing… which I just don’t have the time or energy for, or even inclination to do because,
Part 2 of why I refuse to answer this category, and also why YOUR question/s are very hard to answer is that to analyse what makes something GOOD we have to look at the whole picture;
There are many Good kiss scenes, but a Great Kiss scebe, a truly great kiss scene for me, would not only be highly Technically proficient, across the entire board, but would also HAVE to be Narratively Satisfying as well.
In the Technical Category you have:
Cut scenes, cut scene ratio, no. of camera angles and takes, types of camera angles, lighting, framing, colour grading, hand movement and placement, general movement, lip action, body positioning, timing, whether or not the audience can see anything, editing, etc. etc.
And then in the Narrative Category you have, first how all of the technical contributes to the Story itself, and also the Story as a separate Thing:
Writing, character development, thematic development, emotional catharsis, why the kiss is happening, when is it happening in the story, what is the emotion of the scene, is the emotion told well, is appropriate for these characters TO be kissing, is it built up appropriately, does the kiss forward their story, and their development, or is it just gratuitous, is it a conflict, how is that resolved, what is the kiss fall out like, does the overall purpose of the kiss have a satisfying resolution (that is, does the couple have a satisfying end to their story, period), do all the technical aspects COMPLIMENT the story of the kiss, etc. etc.
Additionally, also whether the cast has good chemistry together, and if they’re both good kissers, and it cannot be too gratuitous, exploitative, or fan servicey.
It can’t just be “hot” for the sake of being “hot”, or flashy and pretty and well-made and well kissed, it has to be well made, the story of the kiss has to be Objectively good, AND I have to like the story of the kiss.
(This in particular is even more so than some years, why I am reluctant to give an entry for the 2023 roundup because I just hated the story of so many decent technical kisses.)
When you look at ALL that, it’s very hard to find a best kiss…
… or a kiss that I feel like giving that label to.
Either I have shows that are very good story wise, but the kisses arenβt exceptional- theyβre by no means bad, some are good, but none stand out to me as oneβs that I would say βthe BESTβ, and I think thatβs probably because what makes those shows good is that theyβre all rounder Good shows, rather than being just Good Romances β I had this same realisation when someone asked me what my favourite OTPs of all time were, and I noticed that all of my favourite and objectively best shows would be up there, but I donβt think of those shows in terms of just their OTPs, the OTP is just part of why the show is good as a whole. Itβs kind of the same thing with some of their kisses; Thirty But Seventeen is an excellent show, very thematically whole and sound and satisfying, and it has lovely and nice kisses, that arenβt bad technically either as far as that goes, but I donβt think of it when I think of All Time Best Kisses. So thatβs an interesting observation.
I said would rate a Best Kiss by its Story as well, but then I have to think aboutβ¦ what makes an All Time Best Kiss, an All Time Best Kiss, that is going to be remembered for THAT, for being a Kiss, and not the show as a whole just also being an All Time Bestβ¦
I think it comes back to the first point, that in a lot of these good shows, the romance is just a variable in making it good. And many of my top thematic shows donβt even have explicit romances or kissing in them at all β essentially Kissing is not necessary for these shows to be good, or any show to be good for that matter. Iβm rambling but I guess I think for a KISS to become BEST, the KISSing part of the show has to be somehow more necessary than average, or used in a way that it canβt be taken out, it has to be EXTRA important somehow. (which Iβm fine with tbh, giving things that inherently should have a lot of meaning and weight, MORE meaning, is pretty much never a bad thing.)
Because, on the other hand, I can think of Kisses that WOULD be more in the ALL TIME BEST, when taking this into account, but the story later on, lets me down in a way I canβt really forgive and therefore canβt rate the kiss as an all time best either.
For example, I love the kisses in 2521 a lot, both technically and at their specific time in the story, narratively, and they definitely are more memorable as kiss scenes, than what is memorable about 30B7, for example, but because I fundamentally disagree with how that show ended, the entire thing leaves a bitter taste in my mouth; I canβt rank them as Best, because for them to have been Best, the ending would have to be differentβ¦
This happens a lot; I also really like the first kiss in EAW, for example, but because the OTP in that never thematically or character wise as a couple, developed farther from that kissβ¦ well, whatβs the point.
I also dislike a lot of post get together kisses in many ways because a lot of them feel gratuitous…
… some even invasive of a fictional coupleβs privacy lol, and others lose their spark if they happen too often. (Goblin, HPL, KTL, ABP.)
Kurama has asked me before what my “Favourite” kisses are, and I gave her a list in response, that weren’t necessarily, ALL of my favourites, or even all-time favourites, and I MUST reiterate this, DEFINITELY not everything I could have mentioned, they were merely ones I thought of at the time, that had elements to them that are elements that make up a Good or even Great Kiss: https://www.dramabeans.com/members/sicarius/activity/1343371/#acomment-1343438
Of these, I think I would still confidently say that the Secret Lyfe of My Secretary Episode 8 kiss is probably up there in my All-Time Bests, maybe not THE Best, the show would have to live up to being rewatched for that, but it is one of the best technical kisses out there, and I think narratively it is very good as well. If I had to criticise it narratively, itβs that it is probably more memorable than most of their later kisses lmao, except maybe the ending one.
To give you more entries onto a list of All Time Bests, because thatβs what it would have to be, a list, and not one, I would have to go away and re-review all the dramas and kisses Iβve ever watched, and all the kisses of dramas I havenβt watched and then maybe we could narrow something down, but right now I donβt think I can really say there IS one or that I HAVE one.
Iβm being very strict here, probably stricter than I even would be with kisses in my own writing (hmmm, maybe I should take notes from myself) but I just feel likeβ¦ I need to be.
I can take requests, but generally Analyst entries happen on a whim and when I feel like following the shitposting dopamine.
Additional Speed Runs anyway:
Of my Thematic Top 10 dramas, only 5 have kiss scene kisses.
Healer β nice kisses but narratively the first one, whilst ICONIC AF, is also kind of WEIRD hahaha (but the beauty of Healer is that we all just accept it anyway). Episode 14 in general has my whole heart though, I have one minor personal issue with the kiss there but otherwise, the HUG THE TEARS THE BUILD UP. Definitely Up There. Also see what I wrote for 30B17.
Sassy Go Go β not a technically good kiss in the slightest LMAO the kiss is not why this is an Objectively a Good Show.
MPUB β the most romantic scenes donβt even have kisses LOL, the other one is just a very brief baby kiss and is very cute but hardly counts.
30BUT17 β see above
SUFBB β I actually really like this kiss. Not sure where it would rank in best, because itβs definitely technically flawed, but itβs cute. Something about Sung Joonβs hands and the framing and them being on the roof and their opposites attract character designs. Anyway. Fluffy teenagers <3 I wish people still talked about this show the way they did 6 years ago.
…
2023:
I didn’t like the first CCIR one because he kissed her when he still thought she was married, which was a plot point I found really dumb and unnecessary in that show anyway, and then I dropped it before any of the other ones, I dropped Destined With You befORE any of the kiss scenes at all, but also Rowoon makes my skin crawl so probably wouldn’t be able to enjoy them either, refuse to watch the AOS2 kiss because I don’t like soul swapping, lmao, didn’t like the See You In My 19th Life kisses that I saw because that drama infuriates me because the FL is not a Real Character, and everything was done backwards in it, KTL was a good kiss scene but overall felt too exploitative of Junho for me tbh, like it was completely just “oggle over Junho!!!” which makes me uncomfortable, CIL’s scene in 12 just made me fizzing mad actually tbh, and I liked the second couple better, otherwise there were plenty of good kisses but as I said above, honestly if the story isn’t ALSO GOOD for why the kiss is there or happening or the lead up to it, then it’s not a good kiss scene even if it’s shot well and has good kissers or is βhotβ which is basically the case for everything else, the writing just Isnβt Good Enough to warrant being mentioned (for example, Soundtrack 2, Worst of Evil (visibly gags) or Deborah, which I would like if the fallout from the kiss, which could’ve SAVED the entire show, didn’t just ruin it even farther instead), I WOULD give it to TMTYLM but I’m trying to not comment on that show because I’m scared it will break into a thousand pieces in my hands, I would give SO MANY of this round up to MEET YOURSELF but my love for that show feels too precious to share, idk, I feel selfish about it, I want to gatekeep it, and gatekeep my love for it, lmao, and also I liked their non kiss scenes better hahaha, best crackships didn’t even get real kisses or proper ones, and the rest I just DIDN’T WATCH.
I love the fact that you literally exist on another plane from most of us, yet are so approachable and helpful and guide all of us so effortlessly. Thank you for taking out the time to respond.
Omg @sicarius 💕 💕💕💕 for such a detailed response, I feel both bad for putting you on the spot but also blessed ✨ for the detailed analysis and observations.
Absolutely fair on why choosing best of all time would be insanely difficult/impossible because of how time consuming it would be in order to remain faithful to the process, not to mention yes subjectivity. I didn’t think about the contextual stuff which you mentioned in part two but it MAKES SO MUCH SENSE!!! Like I was wondering why the KTL scenes didn’t make me feel 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥 because it felt like it was technically all there, but YES there’s so many narrative/character elements and production aspects – not to mention audience investment as well – that contribute to the perception of a A Good Kiss!! Not to mention the whole ‘good in isolation’ or ‘good without the use of hindsight’ (or vice versa) that complicates things . Like 2521 which yeah same here, left a bitter taste in my mouth and I wasn’t able to squee at the romantic moments again like I did the first time when I was blissfully unaware of what was in store 🤡
I also really appreciate your point about romance being just one variable that makes a show good, and that there are shows where the romantic tension alone is more 🔥 than other shows with a lot of skinship.
I’m going to work through some of the scenes you’ve mentioned – and the list you’ve linked – lol there goes my algorithm (but is this really a complaint) but just in general, I love being privy to your thought processes and the way you observe and analyse things so again – you easily could’ve just been like mm no it’s hard or threw a bone for the sake of answering but I appreciate that you took the time to really elaborate on your thoughts and the hows and whys 😍
This is such a lovely reply asdlkfjhalk.
I almost, almost did just spit the dummy lol, even though I knew what my long answer would be, but then I gave myself an evening to sit on it, instead of replying right away.
And mentioning context was one of the most important things.
KTL was imo, and very underwritten show, and then it was also literally just a show to like, indulge in Junho… and that’s not really enough for a kiss scene to be Great, even if the flashyness is all there…
Yeah it’s kind of funny that my favourite Kdrama OTP, actually doesn’t even have a kiss scene lol. You should be able to tell a couple is in love withOUT them kissing, this is good writing advice in general, but if they are gonna kiss, have your kiss mean something more than just skinship for the sake of it.
Haha have fun! I don’t have much spare these days to share more of my thought processes but I’m grateful beans like you and @seeker appreciate it when I do get something out. xox
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ππβ Sicarius The Queen of Melonia β ππ
December 21, 2023 at 12:05 AM
((β¦ meanwhile, the Royal Kiss Analyst is hiding from all the Day 20 entries. 🙈👀 as usual she canβtβ¦ answer thisβ¦))
lapislazulii
December 21, 2023 at 12:51 AM
Does the Royal Kiss Analyst take requests? What about The Best Kiss of All Time – like the ONE to rule them all – which would it be?!
πΈ Seeker πΈ
December 21, 2023 at 11:32 AM
+1 ^^ please do share the All Time Best listed in Meloniaβs records, my Queen.
ππβ Sicarius The Queen of Melonia β ππ
December 21, 2023 at 4:13 PM
Oh boy. This is going to be a long answer. That probably wonβt actually answer your requestβ¦
Oooph. Best of All Time is very hard to give out.
Part 1 of why I have refused for several years now to officially give an entry for this category of the Round Up is, because of who I am as a person, and because of the Royal Kiss Analyst Bit, I would feel like I couldn’t truly make an entry in it, without first having rewatched all the kisses of dramas I watched that year, and probably all the ones of dramas I didn’t as well, analyse them accordingly to my Analyst checklist, and then somehow come up with a legitimate ranking system that both felt like it covered the very subjective “Favourite” and more objective “Best”, and then somehow actually put that in writing… which I just don’t have the time or energy for, or even inclination to do because,
Part 2 of why I refuse to answer this category, and also why YOUR question/s are very hard to answer is that to analyse what makes something GOOD we have to look at the whole picture;
There are many Good kiss scenes, but a Great Kiss scebe, a truly great kiss scene for me, would not only be highly Technically proficient, across the entire board, but would also HAVE to be Narratively Satisfying as well.
In the Technical Category you have:
Cut scenes, cut scene ratio, no. of camera angles and takes, types of camera angles, lighting, framing, colour grading, hand movement and placement, general movement, lip action, body positioning, timing, whether or not the audience can see anything, editing, etc. etc.
And then in the Narrative Category you have, first how all of the technical contributes to the Story itself, and also the Story as a separate Thing:
Writing, character development, thematic development, emotional catharsis, why the kiss is happening, when is it happening in the story, what is the emotion of the scene, is the emotion told well, is appropriate for these characters TO be kissing, is it built up appropriately, does the kiss forward their story, and their development, or is it just gratuitous, is it a conflict, how is that resolved, what is the kiss fall out like, does the overall purpose of the kiss have a satisfying resolution (that is, does the couple have a satisfying end to their story, period), do all the technical aspects COMPLIMENT the story of the kiss, etc. etc.
Additionally, also whether the cast has good chemistry together, and if they’re both good kissers, and it cannot be too gratuitous, exploitative, or fan servicey.
It can’t just be “hot” for the sake of being “hot”, or flashy and pretty and well-made and well kissed, it has to be well made, the story of the kiss has to be Objectively good, AND I have to like the story of the kiss.
(This in particular is even more so than some years, why I am reluctant to give an entry for the 2023 roundup because I just hated the story of so many decent technical kisses.)
When you look at ALL that, it’s very hard to find a best kiss…
ππβ Sicarius The Queen of Melonia β ππ
December 21, 2023 at 4:13 PM
… or a kiss that I feel like giving that label to.
Either I have shows that are very good story wise, but the kisses arenβt exceptional- theyβre by no means bad, some are good, but none stand out to me as oneβs that I would say βthe BESTβ, and I think thatβs probably because what makes those shows good is that theyβre all rounder Good shows, rather than being just Good Romances β I had this same realisation when someone asked me what my favourite OTPs of all time were, and I noticed that all of my favourite and objectively best shows would be up there, but I donβt think of those shows in terms of just their OTPs, the OTP is just part of why the show is good as a whole. Itβs kind of the same thing with some of their kisses; Thirty But Seventeen is an excellent show, very thematically whole and sound and satisfying, and it has lovely and nice kisses, that arenβt bad technically either as far as that goes, but I donβt think of it when I think of All Time Best Kisses. So thatβs an interesting observation.
I said would rate a Best Kiss by its Story as well, but then I have to think aboutβ¦ what makes an All Time Best Kiss, an All Time Best Kiss, that is going to be remembered for THAT, for being a Kiss, and not the show as a whole just also being an All Time Bestβ¦
I think it comes back to the first point, that in a lot of these good shows, the romance is just a variable in making it good. And many of my top thematic shows donβt even have explicit romances or kissing in them at all β essentially Kissing is not necessary for these shows to be good, or any show to be good for that matter. Iβm rambling but I guess I think for a KISS to become BEST, the KISSing part of the show has to be somehow more necessary than average, or used in a way that it canβt be taken out, it has to be EXTRA important somehow. (which Iβm fine with tbh, giving things that inherently should have a lot of meaning and weight, MORE meaning, is pretty much never a bad thing.)
Because, on the other hand, I can think of Kisses that WOULD be more in the ALL TIME BEST, when taking this into account, but the story later on, lets me down in a way I canβt really forgive and therefore canβt rate the kiss as an all time best either.
For example, I love the kisses in 2521 a lot, both technically and at their specific time in the story, narratively, and they definitely are more memorable as kiss scenes, than what is memorable about 30B7, for example, but because I fundamentally disagree with how that show ended, the entire thing leaves a bitter taste in my mouth; I canβt rank them as Best, because for them to have been Best, the ending would have to be differentβ¦
This happens a lot; I also really like the first kiss in EAW, for example, but because the OTP in that never thematically or character wise as a couple, developed farther from that kissβ¦ well, whatβs the point.
I also dislike a lot of post get together kisses in many ways because a lot of them feel gratuitous…
ππβ Sicarius The Queen of Melonia β ππ
December 21, 2023 at 4:14 PM
… some even invasive of a fictional coupleβs privacy lol, and others lose their spark if they happen too often. (Goblin, HPL, KTL, ABP.)
Kurama has asked me before what my “Favourite” kisses are, and I gave her a list in response, that weren’t necessarily, ALL of my favourites, or even all-time favourites, and I MUST reiterate this, DEFINITELY not everything I could have mentioned, they were merely ones I thought of at the time, that had elements to them that are elements that make up a Good or even Great Kiss: https://www.dramabeans.com/members/sicarius/activity/1343371/#acomment-1343438
Of these, I think I would still confidently say that the Secret Lyfe of My Secretary Episode 8 kiss is probably up there in my All-Time Bests, maybe not THE Best, the show would have to live up to being rewatched for that, but it is one of the best technical kisses out there, and I think narratively it is very good as well. If I had to criticise it narratively, itβs that it is probably more memorable than most of their later kisses lmao, except maybe the ending one.
To give you more entries onto a list of All Time Bests, because thatβs what it would have to be, a list, and not one, I would have to go away and re-review all the dramas and kisses Iβve ever watched, and all the kisses of dramas I havenβt watched and then maybe we could narrow something down, but right now I donβt think I can really say there IS one or that I HAVE one.
Iβm being very strict here, probably stricter than I even would be with kisses in my own writing (hmmm, maybe I should take notes from myself) but I just feel likeβ¦ I need to be.
I can take requests, but generally Analyst entries happen on a whim and when I feel like following the shitposting dopamine.
Additional Speed Runs anyway:
Of my Thematic Top 10 dramas, only 5 have kiss scene kisses.
Healer β nice kisses but narratively the first one, whilst ICONIC AF, is also kind of WEIRD hahaha (but the beauty of Healer is that we all just accept it anyway). Episode 14 in general has my whole heart though, I have one minor personal issue with the kiss there but otherwise, the HUG THE TEARS THE BUILD UP. Definitely Up There. Also see what I wrote for 30B17.
Sassy Go Go β not a technically good kiss in the slightest LMAO the kiss is not why this is an Objectively a Good Show.
MPUB β the most romantic scenes donβt even have kisses LOL, the other one is just a very brief baby kiss and is very cute but hardly counts.
30BUT17 β see above
SUFBB β I actually really like this kiss. Not sure where it would rank in best, because itβs definitely technically flawed, but itβs cute. Something about Sung Joonβs hands and the framing and them being on the roof and their opposites attract character designs. Anyway. Fluffy teenagers <3 I wish people still talked about this show the way they did 6 years ago.
(I forgot if TWDR even has a kiss scene lol RIP)
…
ππβ Sicarius The Queen of Melonia β ππ
December 21, 2023 at 4:15 PM
…
2023:
I didn’t like the first CCIR one because he kissed her when he still thought she was married, which was a plot point I found really dumb and unnecessary in that show anyway, and then I dropped it before any of the other ones, I dropped Destined With You befORE any of the kiss scenes at all, but also Rowoon makes my skin crawl so probably wouldn’t be able to enjoy them either, refuse to watch the AOS2 kiss because I don’t like soul swapping, lmao, didn’t like the See You In My 19th Life kisses that I saw because that drama infuriates me because the FL is not a Real Character, and everything was done backwards in it, KTL was a good kiss scene but overall felt too exploitative of Junho for me tbh, like it was completely just “oggle over Junho!!!” which makes me uncomfortable, CIL’s scene in 12 just made me fizzing mad actually tbh, and I liked the second couple better, otherwise there were plenty of good kisses but as I said above, honestly if the story isn’t ALSO GOOD for why the kiss is there or happening or the lead up to it, then it’s not a good kiss scene even if it’s shot well and has good kissers or is βhotβ which is basically the case for everything else, the writing just Isnβt Good Enough to warrant being mentioned (for example, Soundtrack 2, Worst of Evil (visibly gags) or Deborah, which I would like if the fallout from the kiss, which could’ve SAVED the entire show, didn’t just ruin it even farther instead), I WOULD give it to TMTYLM but I’m trying to not comment on that show because I’m scared it will break into a thousand pieces in my hands, I would give SO MANY of this round up to MEET YOURSELF but my love for that show feels too precious to share, idk, I feel selfish about it, I want to gatekeep it, and gatekeep my love for it, lmao, and also I liked their non kiss scenes better hahaha, best crackships didn’t even get real kisses or proper ones, and the rest I just DIDN’T WATCH.
THE END.
Kurama
December 22, 2023 at 2:13 AM
I wonder how many times who wrote the word kiss 😂
You remember that I asked you the same question!
ππβ Sicarius The Queen of Melonia β ππ
December 22, 2023 at 7:05 PM
@kurama 67 times for the final of the above comment apparently, probably a lot more than that in drafts.
I did yes! haha
πΈ Seeker πΈ
December 21, 2023 at 8:34 PM
Thank you my Queen. 🙇♀️ 🙌
This right here is the reason you are THE Queen. Beautifully analyzed and detailed. I’m in awe.
πΈ Seeker πΈ
December 21, 2023 at 8:36 PM
I love the fact that you literally exist on another plane from most of us, yet are so approachable and helpful and guide all of us so effortlessly. Thank you for taking out the time to respond.
ππβ Sicarius The Queen of Melonia β ππ
December 22, 2023 at 7:06 PM
Asdfghjkl I am flattered. And also curious as to what plane this is I exist on hehe.
You’re welcome! 💜💜💜
πΈ Seeker πΈ
December 22, 2023 at 7:36 PM
The plane of awesomeness of course – where Melonia exists.
ππβ Sicarius The Queen of Melonia β ππ
December 22, 2023 at 9:45 PM
🤣🤣🤣 *blushes*
lapislazulii
December 22, 2023 at 7:27 PM
Omg @sicarius 💕 💕💕💕 for such a detailed response, I feel both bad for putting you on the spot but also blessed ✨ for the detailed analysis and observations.
Absolutely fair on why choosing best of all time would be insanely difficult/impossible because of how time consuming it would be in order to remain faithful to the process, not to mention yes subjectivity. I didn’t think about the contextual stuff which you mentioned in part two but it MAKES SO MUCH SENSE!!! Like I was wondering why the KTL scenes didn’t make me feel 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥 because it felt like it was technically all there, but YES there’s so many narrative/character elements and production aspects – not to mention audience investment as well – that contribute to the perception of a A Good Kiss!! Not to mention the whole ‘good in isolation’ or ‘good without the use of hindsight’ (or vice versa) that complicates things . Like 2521 which yeah same here, left a bitter taste in my mouth and I wasn’t able to squee at the romantic moments again like I did the first time when I was blissfully unaware of what was in store 🤡
I also really appreciate your point about romance being just one variable that makes a show good, and that there are shows where the romantic tension alone is more 🔥 than other shows with a lot of skinship.
I’m going to work through some of the scenes you’ve mentioned – and the list you’ve linked – lol there goes my algorithm (but is this really a complaint) but just in general, I love being privy to your thought processes and the way you observe and analyse things so again – you easily could’ve just been like mm no it’s hard or threw a bone for the sake of answering but I appreciate that you took the time to really elaborate on your thoughts and the hows and whys 😍
πΈ Seeker πΈ
December 22, 2023 at 7:40 PM
+1 ^^ 🙌
ππβ Sicarius The Queen of Melonia β ππ
December 22, 2023 at 9:44 PM
This is such a lovely reply asdlkfjhalk.
I almost, almost did just spit the dummy lol, even though I knew what my long answer would be, but then I gave myself an evening to sit on it, instead of replying right away.
And mentioning context was one of the most important things.
KTL was imo, and very underwritten show, and then it was also literally just a show to like, indulge in Junho… and that’s not really enough for a kiss scene to be Great, even if the flashyness is all there…
Yeah it’s kind of funny that my favourite Kdrama OTP, actually doesn’t even have a kiss scene lol. You should be able to tell a couple is in love withOUT them kissing, this is good writing advice in general, but if they are gonna kiss, have your kiss mean something more than just skinship for the sake of it.
Haha have fun! I don’t have much spare these days to share more of my thought processes but I’m grateful beans like you and @seeker appreciate it when I do get something out. xox