Ladies and gents, in case you are wondering (as I was) which battle Hong Taji was referring to in EP 14 (34’39 mn of 1’28’53 mn) I did again some digging. I haven’t found any precise information yet about which battle at mount Song he refers to (when it took place exactly in 1643) but I found some interesting info re the fact that they were fighting the Ming at the southeastward point in the Ming Empire: my feeling is that it was due to the fact that it is one of the five mythical mountains (or rather mountain ranges) of China, with huge symbolic meaning. Songshan is a sacred place of Chinese Taoism, the birthplace of Buddhism where the Shaolin Temple is located, and the birthplace of Chinese Neo-Confucianism.
I am adding the names of the five mountains/mountain ranges and a screen cut-out from Korean Wikipedia with their names. So here is :
숭산 / 嵩山 wikipedia KO : https://ko.wikipedia.org/wiki/숭산_(산) [Song Shan]
항산 / 恒山 wikipedia KO : https://ko.wikipedia.org/wiki/항산 [Heng Shan]
태산 / 泰山 wikipedia KO : https://ko.wikipedia.org/wiki/태산 [Tai Shan]
화산 / 華山 wikipedia KO : https://ko.wikipedia.org/wiki/화산_(중국) [Hua Shan]
형산 / 衡山 wikipedia KO : https://ko.wikipedia.org/wiki/형산 [Heng Shan ; same English transliteration but different Chinese ideogramme]
In a way they form a five-pointed star pattern, if you look at the map. Possibly representing the five elements … but I have not looked into the mythological/symbolic meaning of the mountains in China ; I did some of that for Korea, when I researched Jirisan for example. Korea took over the Chinese cultural concept of the five mountains with mythological/symbolic meanings (the concept is represented in the screen backdrop which you see often behind the Joseon King in the Throne Room).
@dncingemma, I replied to your comments, but forgot to put your DB id in front of it, so it would not turn up in your list. You’ll just have to go to the entries where you commented I think…
Dear DancingEmma, I would like to pick up this conversation later. Unfortunately I need to go now, start my day. It would be really good to find a working solution. 🙂
Just an important pronunciation point: In Korean, the ‘ㅇ‘ at the end of a syllable has the nominal sound of ‘ng’ but the ‘g’ is almost swallowed and should not be tantamount to ‘going’ ending.
Lastly, as for the part on social stratification : This is also important, I feel, for « My Dearest ». Mimi gives a wonderful overview on that as well (her blogsite talkingcupboard). What I found interesting and relevant from Professor Kallender’s introduction is the remark about lesser and nobler yangban … Gil Chae, now Lady Yoo, is certainly a lesser yanban (as is her husband). I suspect Jang Hyeon also to be in this category (originally), now a merchant. That’s clear to me when he “teases” the court official who asks him for advice in personam outside the Manchu war camp … (the name escapes me right now, he is now Prime Minister I believe, in the Realist camp on the court…)
Interest! Here is my take.
Gil Chae and the nobles in Neunggun-ri would be considered lesser than the Hanyang nobles who held high government posts or related to the royals etc. If you are from the village, you are basically discriminated against as a country bumpkin, unsophisticated, ill-mannered, etc. It does matter where you are from. That’s why she wanted to learn about the people in the capital. She thinks that’s where she belongs.
Officer Yu is from a military family. You can tell their ranks from their job. Military families were the lesser nobles. The higher nobles were exempt from any military duties unless one was chosen to be the minister of war and related posts in the capital, which is a high position in the branch of the government.
Jang Hyeon is a merchant/interpreter, so he is middle class. Since he has money, he can buy/register as a lesser noble.
When he first appeared in the village, there was a rumor that he bought his noble status. His past is still a mystery, so who knows if he was a fallen noble or a government slave like Ryang-eun.
From the brief flashback we saw in Episode 12, I speculate that JH belonged either to a noble or merchant family. The flashback showed him as a child carried by a servant.
THE FOLLOWING SERIES OF ENTRIES is a verbatim copy of parts of the introduction to below mentioned diary of 1636 by Na Man’gap, by the American George L. Kallender, Professor at Syracuse University in Syracuse, NY. He is an expert in premodern and early modern Korea and had translated the diary for the Asian Classics series of Columbia University Press ; it was published in 2020. His multi-page introduction is outstanding, very informative. I will only quote certain passages, which seem to be very relevant at this point in time for a viewing of « My Dearest » or serve as introduction to what this diary is and means. @kiara has quoted often from this book for her historical updates.
This is PART 1 OF 5
THE IMPORTANCE OF NA MAN’GAP’s DIARY AS REPORTING TOOL AND WHAT IS TELLS US TODAY
« The Diary of 1636 (Pyŏngjarok) is one of the best-known Korean accounts of the second Manchu assault (the invasion of the cyclical year 1636–1637). Written by a demoted member of the court who was living in exile and was a keen observer, Na Man’gap’s Diary details the unprecedented domestic and international crises faced by the Chosŏn dynasty. At roughly forty-three thousand characters, Na Man’gap’s work is the longest known nonofficial source on the Manchu invasion. Na wrote the first half of the diary during the attack, as a day-by-day narrative of events he witnessed directly. […]
In the second half of the diary, which he most likely composed and edited between 1641 and 1642 from oral stories and written documents collected after 1637, Na added political nuance and commentary, sometimes praising, sometimes criticizing those who fought on the battlefield or argued at the court over loyalty to the king. […]
Also included are stories of military campaigns along the northern and western regions of Chosŏn, the Manchu treatment of prisoners of war, and the post–invasion debates over Manchu collusion and the proper Confucian etiquette demanded of Koreans in times of war. The diary is of particular interest because of Na’s training and his detailed attention. At one point in his career, he served as a diarist for the Office of Royal Decrees (Kŏmyŏl), and he used his professional skills when writing the diary. […]
Chosŏn-era writers certainly accepted Na’s diary as an unofficial history. […] This makes it clear that the diary circulated among a handful of scholars, although the reception of the work immediately after Na’s death in 1642 is uncertain. As he was out of favor with the court when he wrote it, Na had the freedom to explore events without fear of political retribution and could thereby offer an alternative view from the official sources. […]
The Diary of 1636 can be read as a narration of the Manchu invasion of Korea and the political and social aftermath of a premodern society at war. However, much is happening below the surface of the text. As a deft writer, Na subtly, and sometimes not so subtly, critiques the contemporary politics of the Chosŏn dynasty through the structure, tone, and context of his stories. Na’s critiques range from the decision to go to war to the acrimonious environment of political retribution in which many officials were expelled from the center of power, including himself. Na Man’gap describes how the outcome of the attack redefined the relationship between the center and the periphery—those who held power in the court and those who resided in the countryside and did not. […]
The war disrupted ties between dynasties and fractured loyalties at all levels. Korea redirected relations to Mukden (K. Shimyang, C. Shenyang), the Manchu capital, and away from Beijing, challenging Chosŏn loyalty to the Ming. Ming Chinese soldiers switched sides and fought for the Qing. Mongols joined the invasion force. Chosŏn military men supported the Manchu. Korean officials split between pro- peace and pro-war, and even a handful of expatriate Japanese fought alongside Chosŏn. Loyalty was a fluid concept. »
I enjoyed reading his book, which provides a rare first-hand account of the Second Manchu Invasion. His daily records helped us keep track of the drama timeline.
Na Man’gap’s conversation at the end of the invasion with Crown Prince Sohyeon was touching. The crown prince was courteous and kind. He even inquired about Na’s mother and expressed gratitude for his service during the invasion.
“My Dearest” doesn’t do him justice. Most of his accomplishments in Qing are given to Jang Hyun in the drama. His wife, the crown princess, was business savvy. It was her idea to do farming. They earned a lot of money and bought as many Joseon hostages in Qing and sent them home. Some were paid to help at the farm.
He got along well with the Qing royals, and that didn’t sit well with Injo, who was paranoid that Qing would replace him with his son.
@kiara, yes thank you for adding this and your views. I feel that we have not seen everything of the Crown Prince yet in «My Dearest». However, I am not certain yet if the writer will, in the end, have portrayed him in a more conventional way or, as you say, as the really interesting person he seemed to have been in real life. He is in this K-Drama after all a side character, albeit an important one. — Why he got killed is clear from our vantage point. That was the former MBC head’s point, I should think. But will they touch this topic ? That’s a whole new film, and none which can be told from within the times I should think and possibly way too critical for a consensus television drama. Also the writer did say in her interview that she did not want to do Injo-bashing (my naming of her words) but portray him in a multi-dimensional way. — I would like to enter this additional information on the crown prince etc. from the diary into the conversations on «My Dearest» we are having here and on the recaps. I had so far deliberately not done a copy/paste job on this part of the diary … also because I ran out of time yesterday, and don’t have time the next several days until the new episodes come out
THIS IS PART 2 OF 5
THE RELATIONS BETWEEN MANCHU AND JOSEON (ON A PEOPLE LEVEL)
« The Manchu empire was divided into constituencies that included various groups and tribes based on language, lineage ties, and geographic proximity under the umbrella of the early khan’s leadership. This concept of inclusion extends to interaction with the Chosŏn dynasty.
Korea was an integral part of Jurchen-Manchu expansion and imperial identity. To create emperorship, the khan needed recognition by the Korean court and the inclusion of the Chosŏn dynasty into his expanding empire. The Manchu achieved this in the 1627 agreement with the Chosŏn, but King Injo’s withdrawal from this arrangement demanded action. Breaking the peace was not only a military threat, it was also an ideological danger to the Manchu emperorship. Allowing the Chosŏn dynasty to break away challenged the entire order and posed a threat to Manchu expansion into China.
Harder to tease out is whether key Korean figures who cooperated with the Manchu before 1636—and those who defected to the Manchu side—actually considered themselves Manchu. Unlike the amorphous area north of the frontier, by the seventeenth century, the Chosŏn dynasty had a defined frontier along the Yalu and Tumen rivers, combined with a distinct political identity extending back several hundred years at least. Those living south of the rivers were subjects of the Chosŏn dynasty. Those who lived across the rivers to the north were Jurchen, Khitan, Mongol, and Han Chinese. Those Koreans who moved across the northern border appeared to have other political identities.
Those Koreans who moved across the northern border appeared to have other political identities. Apparent from Na Man’gap’s diary is that the conflict around the frontier had forced people to move as refugees or as war captives back and forth to the Korean peninsula.
Did Chosŏn people become part of the Qing empire as Manchu or did the Chosŏn court consider those who traveled to the peninsula subjects of the dynasty? This is hard to know as their histories have largely been neglected. Those individuals noted in sources such as the Sillok tended to have language skills, education, or wealth that allowed them to move across political and linguistic borders. Na Man’gap describes some of these people in his diary. As will be shown below, the Manchu, in the early decades of the seventeenth century, captured a number of Chosŏn military men who had fought with the Ming in the northeast regions. Some of these men remained in Jurchen-Manchu lands, learned to speak Manchu, and later served as envoys between the Qing and Chosŏn courts. Judging from Manchu acceptance of the Chinese and other tribal people, as the Manchu created their empire, it would not have been a stretch for them to extend this process of assimilation and border crossing to those born on the Korean peninsula. There probably were Koreans who moved across the frontier and took Manchu identities. Na’s diary serves as a supplement to the works of New Qing history scholarship by helping to untangle issues of identity in the early period of the Manchu empire. […]
As will be shown below, the Manchu, in the early decades of the seventeenth century, captured a number of Chosŏn military men who had fought with the Ming in the northeast regions. Some of these men remained in Jurchen-Manchu lands, learned to speak Manchu, and later served as envoys between the Qing and Chosŏn courts. Judging from Manchu acceptance of the Chinese and other tribal people, as the Manchu created their empire, it would not have been a stretch for them to extend this process of assimilation and border crossing to those born on the Korean peninsula. There probably were Koreans who moved across the frontier and took Manchu identities. Na’s diary serves as a supplement to the works of New Qing history scholarship by helping to untangle issues of identity in the early period of the Manchu empire. »
NOTE : The topic of prisoners of war (after the Byeongjahoran) taken by the Qing is a difficult and not yet too well researched subject. The writer of « My Dearest » seems to be treating it in a conventional interpretation so far, although it is likely that there are more aspects to the topic (as the Manchu motivation for taking people and how many indeed they captured). But this would go beyond the scope of the drama series, I believe, in any case. — Jang Hyeon is obviously a Joseon yangban (if only one of possibly minor importance, from the countryside) who had strong connections to the Jurchen people, certainly as merchant, a livelihood he porbably took up after leaving his father’s house as he was responsible for the death of his older sister. … My current guess … ( as per 16 Ocotber 2023
THIS IS PART 3 OF 5
THE JOSEON COURT, THE BUREAUCRATS, SOCIAL STRATIFICATION IN 16TH C. KOREA
« The Chosŏn court and central bureaucracy in Seoul governed matters of the state through a Confucian lens. Confucian doctrines paid little attention to war or the importance of a well-funded military and were so influential in the fifteenth century that Chosŏn saw little need to defend itself. Theoretically, the ruler held full power over the kingdom atop the social hierarchy. For the first one hundred years of the Chosŏn dynasty, stalwart kings checked bureaucratic power, but, beginning in the sixteenth century, the bureaucracy grew cunning and made decisions based on allegiances, exerting greater control over the rulers. Kings could not stop these political competitions. Those who tried to exercise too much control over the bureaucracy were pushed aside. Within the court, rulers often sat and watched as members of the bureaucracy battled each other over matters great and small. Those in the bureaucracy, the sadaebu, often exerted real authority because kings depended upon them to run the government. Members of the sadaebu were often at odds with one another, which in turn generated political, or factional, strife. »
The sadaebu was the upper echelon of the elite yangban class. Representing only a small percentage of the population, the yangban were the scholarly and military elites, who qualified for office if they passed the government examinations. While the yangban had certain privileges, such as tax exemptions, most were impoverished and held little power. The sadaebu, on the other hand, were the governing group of the court; they continued to succeed in the highest examinations—which gave them access to government positions—and held political control. Below them, the yangin, or commoners, mostly poor peasants, were the majority of the population and carried the burden of paying land taxes and providing corvée and military service. The commoners were the ones who were largely responsible for funding the treasury of a government run by scholar bureaucrats—officials who attacked excess and surplus as supporting immoral choices that would harm the livelihoods of the people. The sadaebu and other yangban should have, in theory, paid taxes, but many yangban did not; it was a tradition that increasingly burdened the commoners. At the bottom of the social hierarchy, nobi, or slaves, were exempt from taxes or other obligations, but they had no privileges. They were considered “base” and “low” (ch’ŏn); their lives were not their own. […] »
THIS IS PART 4 OF 5
THE SITUATION « ON THE GROUND » AND HOW IT CAME ABOUT — POST-IMJIN TO MANCHU BLITZKRIEG
« In the years following the Imjin War, court officials began to improve the economy and build up defenses.30 This included passing early taxation and revenue reforms. Thousands of Koreans had died in the war, and their loss resulted in a severely damaged agricultural system—the base of government taxation and of the livelihood of the people. Routine farming had ceased for six to eight years, devastating food production. It was imperative to maintain rice paddies, as rice farming is an intricate process requiring constant work to maintain the artificial irrigation system. […]
However, domestic and international issues interfered with the rebuilding process. First, political questions arose surrounding King Kwanghaegun’s legitimacy—complicated by his proximity to the Jurchen (aka the Manchu)—that led to clashes with the scholar-official bureaucracy and a coup that culminated in his nephew, King Injo, obtaining the throne in 1623. […]
During the Imjin War, amidst concerns that the king could die without a legitimate heir, King Sŏnjo appointed Kwanghaegun as crown prince, angering one of the political factions, the Westerners (Sŏin), who advocated waiting. An opposing faction, the Great Northerners (Taebugin), supported the decision. King Sŏnjo eventually had two sons by different wives in 1601, but neither was immediately declared crown prince. However, as the children grew, more people began whispering that Kwanghaegun was illegitimate and that King Sŏnjo’s other two sons were the rightful heirs, rumors that threatened Kwanghaegun’s kingship. King Kwanghaegun’s two half-brothers were assassinated, most likely by Kwanghaegun’s supporters, which plunged Kwanghaegun into deep trouble. It was in this fraught political context that the Manchu arrived on the scene. […]
The Manchu were nomadic tribes whose lives were supported by hunting, trapping, and fishing. Some came from a forest environment, others from the plains. In addition to the Manchu, other Jurchen tribes and some Mongols lived in the region north of the Chosŏn frontier. Originally of Jurchen origin, one tribe coalesced around charismatic and militarily powerful leaders, grew into a major federation, and gained the notice of the Ming. By the 1590s, Nurhachi, their leader, emerged as a rising military power and, inspired to revive the Jurchen Jin dynasty (1115–1234) heritage, sought to conquer China for its wealth and resources. Exploiting a weakened Ming, Nurhachi expanded his power into Manchuria in the late 1610s. Based on geographic proximity, Korea was an early concern for the Manchu. As their main objective was China, they had to ensure Korea did not become a hindrance. In 1616, the Ming acted against the Manchu and began preparing for a counterattack, requisitioning thirteen thousand troops from Korea […]
The failed Ming campaign had the added effect of defeating Chinese power in Manchuria. After this loss, the Ming could no longer support Korea, a fact Nurhachi keenly understood. In 1621, all the other towns in Manchuria were captured from the Ming, making the situation even more politically tenuous in Korea. Political factions within the Chosŏn court used the threat of an invasion to gain power and vilify competing parties. The Westerners abhorred the thought of peace with the Manchu, considering them barbarians, while the Southerners urged negotiation. […]
With the Westerners in power, government policy shifted to a pro- Ming stance. King Injo was a weak king dominated by the bureaucratic officials who had enthroned him—a group of politicians belligerent toward the Manchu and supportive of the Ming. They granted Chinese generals access to Chosŏn territory, which the Chinese took advantage of to construct bases on Korean islands along the northwest coast. The Manchu were uneasy with the Ming presence and sent an army into Korea in 1627. […]
Upon recommendation by the Westerners, King Injo reneged on the promises made during the alliance ritual and resumed relations with the Ming once the Manchu troops retreated. In the years after, the Chosŏn court recognized the military disadvantages of the 1627 attack and strengthened key defenses, such as the cavalry, arquebus soldiers, and archers.62 The government built up defenses along the frontier and moved troops to the west and northwest.63 Another consequence of the defensive buildup and pro-Ming stance was that, in time, Ming bases returned to Korean territory. All of these developments indicated to the Manchu that Chosŏn had not severed its ties to the Ming. […]
The incident with Ingguldai marked the end of Manchu attempts at negotiations. In early winter of 1637, roughly fifty thousand Manchu troops crossed the frozen Yalu River and attacked. Unlike in 1627, Korean commanders did not lead the assault. The top Manchu generals, Ingguldai and Mafuta, as well as Emperor Hung Taiji, directed the campaign, indicating the seriousness of Manchu resolve to settle the Korea issue permanently. Like the previous invasion, Manchu troops were unstoppable. The Manchu struck rapidly and within four days reached Seoul. […] »
THIS IS PART 5 OF 5
HOSTAGE-TAKING AND KIDNAPPING POST-TREATY, AN MANCHU “CONFUCIANISM”, MANCHU INVASIONS VS. IMJIN
« In addition, as part of the surrender terms, senior-ranking men of the Westerner faction and their families, along with three princes, were taken to Manchuria and held hostage while other prisoners were married into Manchu clans. This hostage-taking ensured Chosŏn obedience to the Manchu. The Manchu used a different lens to view these demands. Hung Taiji dictated that the Korean king order “all the families of ministers inside and outside the court … [to] marry ours to make our good relationship solid.” Many children of leading bureaucrats were kidnapped and taken to Manchuria as hostages. Many of them suffered tremendously. Some died in Manchu prisons. […]
To ensure compliance, on this second invasion the Manchu demanded the dispatch of the crown prince and his entourage to Mukden, and Hung Taiji ordered marriage alliances between the Manchu and Chosŏn elite families. Even court minsters were required to enter into these alliances as part of the surrender terms. On the one hand, such demands appear humiliating, as the subjugated people had to provide marriage partners to the victorious Manchu. On the other, in Korea, this pattern of intermarriage had deeper historical roots from well before the 1630s. Marriage was an important element of alliance building among Northeast Asian and Eurasian tribes and polities. From Western Europe to East Asia, ruling members intermarried across large geographical areas. In the case of Korea, Silla and Koryŏ founders took daughters to help placate defeated regions. The marriage alliance between Kublai Khan of the Mongol Yuan and the Korean Koryŏ dynasty brought the two ruling courts closer together, guaranteeing cooperation and safety, especially regarding military expansion into China. […]
The Manchu once again raised the importance of marriage alliances to the Chosŏn. The relationship between the Manchu and Korea did not develop as deeply as in the Mongol era, when the crown prince married the daughter of the emperor, lived in Beijing with the imperial family, and raised children there until called to Korea upon the death of his father, the king. Four centuries later, marriage alliances remained a custom for securing peace in Northeast Asia, but the pattern of those alliances shifted away from the royal family to other leading families in Seoul. The daughter of one elite yangban was chosen as a concubine for Hung Taiji. She, and her father, helped relieve some of the rice tax tribute the Qing demanded of the Chosŏn. From the Manchu perspective, what Na and others perceived as humiliating surrender rituals, including the dispatch of the crown prince and other powerful officials, were practical acts that would solidify strong relations between the two countries. […]
Chosŏn may have claimed greater Confucian legitimacy based on its lengthy history of engaging with the Confucian Classics (these were books like Mencius, Great Learning, Analects of Confucius, and other works on philosophy and moral values that China, Korea, Japan, and Vietnam adopted for scholarship and governance), but the Manchu, through their interpreters and letter writers, proved an equal of Korea in their written responses. The war on the battlefield, fought also through the exchange of letters, proved challenging for Korea to surmount. The Manchu were as powerful with the brush as they were with the sword.
While this was a major military defeat for the Chosŏn, in retrospect, the invasion of 1636–1637 was not as militarily damaging and saw less material destruction than the Japanese invasions during the Imjin War in 1592–1598 […] The Manchu wars, on the other hand, were so rapid and were conducted with such a small and nimble military— which moved quickly in and out of Korea— that Chosŏn appeared to have been struck by lightning. Unlike the Japanese in the Imjin War, the Manchu stopped once they captured the Chosŏn capital, signaling defeat.
These rapid invasions severed Korean contact with the Ming on both occasions. After the first oath of allegiance was broken, the reprisal of the second invasion was more consequential. All of the princes in line for the throne and the sons of leading officials were transported back with the Manchu as hostages. They were released later, but by then these people had established connections and lines of communication with the Manchu, learned their customs and politics, and sometimes even the language. To some, this was a positive result and a way to further communications with the Manchu, but others thought that these hostages were too closely aligned with the Manchu and could pose a threat. »
Having just finished watching episode 12 of « 연인 » (English : My Dearest, literally : Yeon-in = Lover) I realised another important reason why I mostly, almost only, want to watch this K-Drama now — above and beyond all other Korean dramas and Western films.
Yes, this sageuk shows the (to me culturally and timewise foreign) circumstances and developments of the three scourges of the human agenda : famine, plague and war. [ Note : This is how Yuval Noah Harari describes it in his book « Homo Deus » with section headings such as « The biological poverty line » (famine) , « Invisible Armadas » (plague) and « Breaking the Law of the Jungle » (war). ] Here it is early agricultural Joseon depending on its farming produce, with the bow-and-arrow-and-sword « blitzkrieg » of the Byeonjgahoran (Second Manchu Invasion) —plus a few Western canons—, then humilitated, starved and exploited by the winner, the rising Qing, who are in the process of overthrowing the Ming Empire and who, most likely, only withdrew from Joseon so quickly because of an outbreak of smallpox (and to continue their advance on the Ming Empire of course).
These seem to be the historical facts … So, … might I congratulate myself internally by saying : Am I not the lucky one … ? This is certainly true, if only unconsciously. That’s why we watch films, read stories etc. — we will always compare to our own situation. Human beings are essentially storytelling beasts, forever comparing their experiences to what they hear from past, present and (imagined) future. The ones who have lived a nightmare, however, will, most often, not watch the fictionalisation of that nightmare. Only us, who do not know it, will watch the « faction » (fact + fiction). Experiences of Jewish people after the Second World War or experiences of the survivors of the atom bomb attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the so called hibakusha (被爆者), have shown this. They lived to tell of their experiences —by the grace of God or life, or by luck or fate—, and these experiences were even more horrendous than any fictionalised story can tell. Yet they told their stories so that we care and do not repeat humanity’s mistakes. Episodes 11 and 12 of « My Dearest » are about the aftermath of the Byeonjgahoran, in particular the staggering numbers of prisoner of wars and their stories. (as intended by the scriptwriter) Gil-Chae becomes an unintentional prisoner-of-war (in a situation where right and wrong are clearly suspended), and hence moves the storytelling forward to Qing. For the tragic story of the royal captive in Qing’s hands, the Crown Prince, Jang Hyeon becomes the spokesperson to the viewer. (see background for that in interview with the scriptwriter I posted before)
As Jang Hyeon says in episode 8 [4’53—5’00 mn] and explains at length in episode 12 of « My Dearest » (to Sohyeon, the crown prince) when asked why he followed the latter to Shenyang (romanised transliteration of Chinese name) aka Mukden (romanised transliteration of Manchu name) aka Simyang (romanised transliteration of Korean name) : « You asked me why I came to Simyang. I was curious about your fate. I thought you would end up surrendering. […] But you were very strong. You did great, Your Highness.» And he clarifies the key point about this personal tragedy for the crown prince (when latter insists that HE was not able to protect the King of Joseon) : « There is no law that says a child must protect his father. It is the father who must protect. » — a rather chillingly true statement considering the prevailing doctrines of Korean neoconfucianism. [26’47 — 27’14 mn]
THAT IS ASPECT NUMBER ONE : Storytelling of the three scourges on the human agenda in one event (the Second Manchu invasion and the aftermath), and the validity and depth of this storytelling to make me care. Next question then : what do I do with this caring ? Do I learn something by it ? Ultimately, this is what a Jewish person surviving the concentration camps or a Japanese hibakusha surviving the atom bombs will want — or a Joseon woman having survived deportation and rape. And it is the point of good storytelling as well. This is not just « eye candy » for a bored or voiceless 21st century human. What is that voice I need to reconnect to telling me? There are interesting, and, in my view, spot-on anwers to that question which C.G. Jung has left us as tools.
ASPECT NUMBER TWO :
Yes, the series production appears to be outstanding in several aspects and might, I venture to say, become a benchmark for filming and producing sageuks in the future.
The production team uses the latest cinematography to great effect (drones, sparingly but effectively, amongst other elements); sound and music are « in tune » with the story’s advancement or repetition of themes or setting the tone (no puns intented); the Manchu/Qing portrayal (bare the armour or weaponry apparently) seems to be authentic ; the lighting overall and effects of moonlight/daylight and location is adapted to the mood and the content the story wants to select ; the amount of close-ups or half shots or wider shots to portray emotions and the people who have them make excellent use of the actors’ and actresses’ skills —and not only the leads (even if, apparently, sometimes haphazardlessly put together in the editing room) ; the locations where filming took place are well chosen, although it remains to be seen how Shenyang and other Chinese places will be filmed, if they are portrayed ; does anyone know where that building which serves as Shenyang Hall (i.e. the Crown Prince’s residence in Shenyang) is in South Korea? And last but not least, the selection of costumes and props to, again, serve the story and the mood of the scenes — not only the various fans which Jang Hyeon uses throughout when he is in Joseon-dandy-type mode, but the colourful clothing of Gil Chae when she is young and unmarried and carefree, also the winter court in Namhan Mountain Fortress during the invasion … etc. etc. There are many, many more examples.
While there is quite a bit of commentary noise about the lead actors/actresses skills (and their acting skills appear to be truly excellent, even if they portray in personalities who would be about a decade younger than they are as actor/actress, at least in the beginning), the whole casting even for smallish side roles is extremely well done, I find. Everyone makes me care about this story. It is, I would say, an ensemble story.
WHICH BRINGS ME TO MY ORIGINAL POINT : what makes me so engaged in a sageuk portrayal of an event thousands of miles away from my own culture, and taking place almost 600 years ago ? What was my « new » discovery after watching episode 12?
Part of the answer I gave already : clearly, humanity hasn’t learned a bit. I could leave it there and move on. But no. This is not past, it is present — for me. It takes me a while every day to come back to my own reality, and I discover I ponder on the topics portrayed throughout the day, apparently even in my dreams, at times.
My new discovery was how elaborate « My Dearest » weaves historic timeline with fictional and factual progression. It is artful. (See further down for details) It becomes the portrayal of archetypal themes crossing space and time … to me.
In his excellent book « The Anatomy of Genres. How Story Forms Explain the Way the World Works » John Truby elaborates on how a love story as « the art of happiness » is the highest form of storytelling (“highest” is my somewhat insufficient term, but I haven’t got a better one ; I see an analogy to Abraham Maslow’s pyramide of needs).
Now, I finally also better understand the points the scriptwriter was making in her interview with Cine 21 on March 1, 2023. (The interview was published in four parts on March 11, 2023.)
[ SEE SEPARATE ENTRY FOR THE INTERVIEW ]
What I noticed after viewing episode 12 is how adept writer and production team are at weaving the storytelling in the episodes together while moving back and forth in the historic timeline and also showing the inner progression (or yearning stillstand as it may be) of the love of the two protagonists. For the viewer the time which passes between events seems sometimes instantaneous, when in fact it is not.
As Hwang Jin-young said in HER INTERVIEW : she seems to have completely internalised the historic facts as they are known, filling in gaps with some intelligent extrapolation, and weaving the dramatic story true to the historic timeline yet showing the progression (or not, as it may be) of the LOVE STORY as the ART OF HAPPINESS. What will happen to the portrayal of the historic development at the Joseon court and in Shenyang (or Beijing respectively) remains to be seen. Given the presentation so far, it will be a nuanced and intelligent, I should think.
THE HISTORIC TIMELINE OF THE LAST 4 EPS [see next fanwall post]
The following was meant to be part of another article for my Fanwall. But it is too long to insert, so I am posting it separately. The other article will follow later.
Now, I finally also better understand the points the scriptwriter was making in her interview with Cine 21 on March 1, 2023. (The interview was published in four parts on March 11, 2023.)
THE INTERVIEW WITH WRITER HWANG JIN-YOUNG
Hwang Jin-young explained her motivation for writing (so far only) sageuk or (in a better romanised form) period dramas, sidaegeug— 시대극.
« It is attractive that period dramas naturally reveal the decisive emotions and the human figure driven to the edge of the cliff. […] I often think that this work is fun when intense human emotions of wanting to escape from the shackles of social status and social restrictions are expressed. That\’s what I am attracted to : looking into human nature and archetypes in dramatic situations rather than calmly unraveling trivial points of everyday life. » — Here we have it … Jung’s archetypes …
When the interviewer asked her, why she had chosen a particular historic period over another, Hwang Jin-young explained how her four sidaegeug (all produced by MBC) came about. Generally, she is looking « for writing in a way that adds imagination to the historical information gap.»
« My Dearest » came about as pondering on a remark Lee Byeong-hoon, a former director of MBC, had made. That the story of Crown Prince Sohyeon and Kangbin is very interesting, but too tragic to touch. Even historical drama experts had said that.
Yet, there are many materials that are difficult to solve —something also true for the Byeongja Horan—, she explains, and «in the case of 연인, I deliberately thought of the movie Gone with the Wind a lot.»
« I believed that if the conflict, hope, and beauty in the movie were superimposed on the situation of the Byeongjahoran era, it would not seem difficult, and the story of the people who lived through that era could be told convincingly. » — Here we have it — her —as she calls it— superimposition of David O’Selznick’s Gone with the Wind and the American Civil War onto the Byeongja Horan.
When writing a drama, she explains, she wants to communicate to the audience with an interesting story. « For a story to be interesting, it needs a probable connection, and that link needs to be specific to be convincing. »
She had researched the historic data on and around the Byeongja Horan meticulously in order to increase the logical probability of a story. She incorporates all information as his own through a total of three steps.
« If you see it once, you won’t understand what it means at once, so I read it through twice, and from the third time I underline the information I need. And I transfer all the materials to a folder, which becomes my own warehouse. After completing these steps, when writing a screenplay, you will be able to develop your own thoughts without referring to each material individually again. »
« I don\’t try to show a person with a specific tone of my own. […] Injo prepares his own way to deal with the Qing Dynasty, which is becoming powerful, but nevertheless he becomes the king of a defeated country. But all of a sudden, [..] I was wondering if I could criticize [him] not being ‘extraordinary\’ just because he couldn\’t get through the situation in an extraordinary way. Of course, I have no intention of sympathizing with Injo, but I hoped that viewers would be able to look into Injo\’s broken heart in more detail. So, how much even the wicked resemble \’me\’ and \’we\’. That is also my personal value. In fact, recently, many studies have been conducted that contain this perspective of re-evaluation. So I tend to show the emotions and circumstances of the villain in my work. Wouldn\’t it be too unrealistic for someone to be entirely evil? The moment it doesn\’t feel real, the immersion in the story goes down. Everyone is three-dimensional. »
« My Dearest is a drama that starts with the Byeongja Horan and shows Joseon after the Byeongja Horan. In addition to Janghyeon and Gilchae\’s love, I\’m trying to shed light on the stories of people who were taken prisoner. The number of people taken prisoner is staggering, but there is not much food. In order to add to the enjoyment of historical dramas, director Kim Seong-yong pays attention to even the smallest details such as sets, props, and costumes.»
The interviewer asked her about her way of writing in an poetic format, combining lyricism with tragedy.
« For me, the lyrical moments that coexist with the tragic moments feel very beautiful. So I often try to embody that beauty in my script. Also, when composing a drama, it feels fun to intersect conflicting emotions, so for example, putting lyricism behind a grim scene, or light-heartedness behind a tragic one. In order for a battle or strategy to look intense, it needs to have lyricism to stand out more. When the two extremes harmonize, the story seems richer. » — In my view she managed that extremely well with the scenes in the Qing war camp, as an example.
Hwang Jin-young’s views on the relationship of story (scriptwriter) and production (the PD and all team members) are also very visible in « My Dearest » I feel :
« I think the script needs to give accurate information. After all, the essence of content is the story. Each writer has a different inclination, but I tend to explain the atmosphere and acting tone that I envisioned in my head in as much detail as possible in the script. Looking at the script, I think the writer should provide a more specific script so that each team can draw a common picture, so that the shooting can proceed more smoothly.»
One useful thing to note (but you might already be aware of it) is that in Korean “시“ is pronounced as “shi” and not as ‘si’ so the romanisation is entirely wrong. This distortion is why I use a modified romanisation if and when I find it necessary to use it at all in order to get as close as possible to the actual Korean pronunciation.
ps – Another example which I often see on this cite is when the romanised “maknae” is used for “ 막내” which is incorrect. The Korean pronunciation is “mangneh” because it does not exactly follow what is written in Hangeul. Just one of the many such distortions.
Thanks! No I was not aware of it. I realised that the topic of romanisation is a really complicated one … but the only useable table I found so far is the one on Wikipedia EN with the Unicode characters. So I have created an Excel spreadsheet in which I copy/paste the characters I find and then write the romanised forms under it. Then I put it into Google translate and get an (often) so-so translation. For short texts I can create this more easily, but for along text this is a huge task. If I select the audio button on Google Translate to hear the pronounciation, yes I notice sometimes that the voicing of the sound is different from what I would have done with it in romanising it.
Also, there is this other, Cune Reischauer system, which academics use, but which I find pretty cumbersome to write/read …. So your way is probably better, but for that one needs to understand the language in the first place, probably, right?
I am impressed by your scholarly approach and analysis so please don’t think I was criticising you. The Wikipedia and other Internet sources are using romanisation because unfortunately the problem goes way back to when Korean letters were translated’ to English by the first Westerners who publicised them outside Korea as such. Not only they couldn’t properly approximate many of the sounds, they also didn’t understand how many pronunciation rules Korean has (visavis how the proximity of certain letters to each other in two syllables can chang their pronunciation) now commonly criticised as highly inaccurate and misleading by a number of good native speaking Korean teachers who teach online.
I know, @dncingemma. I did not take your comments as criticisms in any way. Instead, I find it most helpful to have someone knwledgeabe to talk to about the Korean language. As you might have noticed, I love languages! Using language is our first point of contact in communication in many, many situations. And I like the sound of the Korean language (whereas I do not like the sound of Chinese for example ; I always think people have potatoes in their mouth when they talk.) — I signed up for a Korean language learning course via the Internet, but so far I have not had ANY time for this … So for now, I am trying to understand the structure of this language. You saying that there are many different pronounciation rules is, for example, a new learning experience for me right now (which I cherish).
I can distinguish, most often, an American from a Canadian from a British from a Scottish, an Australian or a New Zealander speaking English ; I can distinguish a person from France speaking French and a person from one of the African countries or the North African countries speaking French or a French Swiss speaking French ; I can distinguish Spanish spoken by a Spaniard from Spain, or a Columbian or Chilean. And of course, as German, I can distinguish a German (even regional accents) speaking German, from an Austrian or a Swiss German.
The other day I overheard an Asian person speaking, and I could recognize that it was Korean! I turned around, and indeed … yipee, I thought. I recognise spoken Japanese although I don’t understand a lot.
It bugs me somewhat that people often are so negligent when it comes to other cultures’ most important tool. I would like to understand Korean, not because I think I might be travelling to the country often now, but because I recognise that language forms mind and matter. In that way, for example, the polite form which young Koreans and foreigners find so difficult (apparently) is something very important in my mind for the Korean culture, the Korean way of life AND the mind of a Korean person. That historic Korean dramas use the personal name in their subtitled translations when a person is addressed by another is a mistake in my view. (Rakuten viki does not do this most of the time though, but Netflix and Kocowa do). Same for contemporary K-dramas. I recognise that Koreans often address another by their functional title, also in comemporary settings. I think that is a very valid and good idea since it shows straight away the relationship which exists between these two people; there is no personal relationship as yet. Just as an example. I like that because Western languages have ALL lost this, so far as I can tell.
Thank you for this. Really interesting. One concern that I have is the valorisation of “Gone with the Wind” as GWTW glorified slavery and it is rightly derided by many. I wish the scriptwriter hadn’t just included their admiring views but also had acknowledged the underlying horrors of slavery.
I feel she did not NOT do that intentionally. My sense was that she is aware of the problematic part of GWTW but she only picked the love story evolvement of the movie leaving that particular AMERICAN HISTORIC aside as it was of no consequence for her as Korean. Maybe it was just a question of knowledge, meaning she wanted such a female character as her protagonist, with a male protagonist matching a roguish Rhett Butler but « in a Korean way » and for the 1600s. Her knowledge of such a character from film or literature might have been limited. And I, too, must admit, from the top of my head I would not know any myself.
Just thinking : if my assumption below is correct, i.e. the writer had focused on the love story part with a female lead who is such a strong women coming from her dainty spoiled Southern Belle background (hunkydory country yangban who turns men’s heads in the Korean version), then Gil Chae’s kidnapping and being dragged to Qing and almost abused makes even more sense. It shows the strength of her survival character (like Scarlet’s). — I also feel, the writer is starting to digress a bit from the GWTW parallel (except that Gil Chae’s husband will probably die like Frank Kennedy). — Also the Jang Hyeon is now already pretty different from the Rhett Butler, I feel. He is a survivor and he is kind and he knows the ways of the world … but that’s where the comparisons end for me. Rhett Butler —in the end— left his Scarlet with that famous line : frankly, my dear, I don’t care a damn … — and she thinks of Tara, i.e. the land (as the innermost source of her being). I don’t think that’s Gil Chae’s way … she is not linked to the earth in this way, but I do not know at the moment what the writer might choose instead. That short scene in EP 1 where Jang Hyeon (in a Korean scholar’s attire by the way) is facing a crowd of men with pitch forks and swords etc. … and he repeats this one sentence … asking (Gil Chae, most likely) if she hears the sound of flowers … I feel it will have something to do with this. But currently no idea what.
By the way, it\’s now the second time I heard from a Korean source that Jang-Hyun was in fact a historic person. I thought he was entirely fictional, but not so, apparently. The fictional bit is just his superhuman abilities, as in being an expert swordsman/fighter, a deft diplomat and realist advising the crown prince and a lover of the century …
Ladies and gents, new contribution: I just found this playlist for the interpretation of the latest video clip offerings for « My Dearest » Part 2. And different from the other Korean YouTubers, this person uses an AI to translate into English. The translation comes out okay, I find. He analyses the latest MBC teasers, so this is good. Someone else had posted the last teaser on Dramabeans, so that link it out there already. There are also a couple of new character posters for Part 2. Here the link to the playlist : https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLmrpoGuNCzjxvemNQXdv048Pmn4bPrFl_
Second thing : I saw a cute 45 or so seconds promo clip for a fun-looking MBC programme on the 9th at 10:45 PM, also for « Yeonin » Part 2 … with the lead actress amongst others, at least if I understood this correctly. If there is anyone in Korea and fancies taping it … ? Here is the link for the clip : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpG9E1GO0Xs
On your fan wall, you should see a button in the top right corner of each post: three light grey dots, vertically. Clicking on it opens a context menu per post, and from there, you can select “Delete”.
Hope this helps!
angelshadows50
October 22, 2023 at 5:36 AM
Ladies and gents, in case you are wondering (as I was) which battle Hong Taji was referring to in EP 14 (34’39 mn of 1’28’53 mn) I did again some digging. I haven’t found any precise information yet about which battle at mount Song he refers to (when it took place exactly in 1643) but I found some interesting info re the fact that they were fighting the Ming at the southeastward point in the Ming Empire: my feeling is that it was due to the fact that it is one of the five mythical mountains (or rather mountain ranges) of China, with huge symbolic meaning. Songshan is a sacred place of Chinese Taoism, the birthplace of Buddhism where the Shaolin Temple is located, and the birthplace of Chinese Neo-Confucianism.
I am adding the names of the five mountains/mountain ranges and a screen cut-out from Korean Wikipedia with their names. So here is :
숭산 / 嵩山 wikipedia KO : https://ko.wikipedia.org/wiki/숭산_(산) [Song Shan]
항산 / 恒山 wikipedia KO : https://ko.wikipedia.org/wiki/항산 [Heng Shan]
태산 / 泰山 wikipedia KO : https://ko.wikipedia.org/wiki/태산 [Tai Shan]
화산 / 華山 wikipedia KO : https://ko.wikipedia.org/wiki/화산_(중국) [Hua Shan]
형산 / 衡山 wikipedia KO : https://ko.wikipedia.org/wiki/형산 [Heng Shan ; same English transliteration but different Chinese ideogramme]
In a way they form a five-pointed star pattern, if you look at the map. Possibly representing the five elements … but I have not looked into the mythological/symbolic meaning of the mountains in China ; I did some of that for Korea, when I researched Jirisan for example. Korea took over the Chinese cultural concept of the five mountains with mythological/symbolic meanings (the concept is represented in the screen backdrop which you see often behind the Joseon King in the Throne Room).
angelshadows50
October 22, 2023 at 6:52 AM
I should say eastward point really, not southeastward … but you know what I meant … 🙂
Ghost of Tim (eccentric observations from a male perspective)
October 22, 2023 at 2:37 PM
You had me at “digging”. Well done!
kiara
October 23, 2023 at 6:52 PM
Love the little details!
angelshadows50
October 17, 2023 at 11:24 AM
@dncingemma, I replied to your comments, but forgot to put your DB id in front of it, so it would not turn up in your list. You’ll just have to go to the entries where you commented I think…
angelshadows50
October 17, 2023 at 12:07 AM
@dncingemma, that’s just a short Korean phrase and my method using an Excel spreadsheet … if you have an idea on how to improve on the romanisation …
angelshadows50
October 17, 2023 at 12:43 AM
Dear DancingEmma, I would like to pick up this conversation later. Unfortunately I need to go now, start my day. It would be really good to find a working solution. 🙂
DancingEmma
October 17, 2023 at 2:13 AM
Sure thing!🙂
angelshadows50
October 17, 2023 at 12:06 AM
DancingEmma
October 17, 2023 at 2:23 AM
Just an important pronunciation point: In Korean, the ‘ㅇ‘ at the end of a syllable has the nominal sound of ‘ng’ but the ‘g’ is almost swallowed and should not be tantamount to ‘going’ ending.
angelshadows50
October 16, 2023 at 7:06 AM
Lastly, as for the part on social stratification : This is also important, I feel, for « My Dearest ». Mimi gives a wonderful overview on that as well (her blogsite talkingcupboard). What I found interesting and relevant from Professor Kallender’s introduction is the remark about lesser and nobler yangban … Gil Chae, now Lady Yoo, is certainly a lesser yanban (as is her husband). I suspect Jang Hyeon also to be in this category (originally), now a merchant. That’s clear to me when he “teases” the court official who asks him for advice in personam outside the Manchu war camp … (the name escapes me right now, he is now Prime Minister I believe, in the Realist camp on the court…)
kiara
October 16, 2023 at 9:36 PM
Interest! Here is my take.
Gil Chae and the nobles in Neunggun-ri would be considered lesser than the Hanyang nobles who held high government posts or related to the royals etc. If you are from the village, you are basically discriminated against as a country bumpkin, unsophisticated, ill-mannered, etc. It does matter where you are from. That’s why she wanted to learn about the people in the capital. She thinks that’s where she belongs.
Officer Yu is from a military family. You can tell their ranks from their job. Military families were the lesser nobles. The higher nobles were exempt from any military duties unless one was chosen to be the minister of war and related posts in the capital, which is a high position in the branch of the government.
Jang Hyeon is a merchant/interpreter, so he is middle class. Since he has money, he can buy/register as a lesser noble.
When he first appeared in the village, there was a rumor that he bought his noble status. His past is still a mystery, so who knows if he was a fallen noble or a government slave like Ryang-eun.
Snow Flower
October 17, 2023 at 11:46 AM
From the brief flashback we saw in Episode 12, I speculate that JH belonged either to a noble or merchant family. The flashback showed him as a child carried by a servant.
angelshadows50
October 17, 2023 at 11:54 AM
Yes, absolutely, I got the same impression. I suspect as I said above noble, but the woods and fields variety (a German expression) 🙂
kiara
October 17, 2023 at 12:14 PM
We still have a lot of history to unload in these two episodes. I’m not as speedy as I used to be. I’ll post some on the recaps.
angelshadows50
October 16, 2023 at 6:59 AM
THE FOLLOWING SERIES OF ENTRIES is a verbatim copy of parts of the introduction to below mentioned diary of 1636 by Na Man’gap, by the American George L. Kallender, Professor at Syracuse University in Syracuse, NY. He is an expert in premodern and early modern Korea and had translated the diary for the Asian Classics series of Columbia University Press ; it was published in 2020. His multi-page introduction is outstanding, very informative. I will only quote certain passages, which seem to be very relevant at this point in time for a viewing of « My Dearest » or serve as introduction to what this diary is and means. @kiara has quoted often from this book for her historical updates.
This is PART 1 OF 5
THE IMPORTANCE OF NA MAN’GAP’s DIARY AS REPORTING TOOL AND WHAT IS TELLS US TODAY
« The Diary of 1636 (Pyŏngjarok) is one of the best-known Korean accounts of the second Manchu assault (the invasion of the cyclical year 1636–1637). Written by a demoted member of the court who was living in exile and was a keen observer, Na Man’gap’s Diary details the unprecedented domestic and international crises faced by the Chosŏn dynasty. At roughly forty-three thousand characters, Na Man’gap’s work is the longest known nonofficial source on the Manchu invasion. Na wrote the first half of the diary during the attack, as a day-by-day narrative of events he witnessed directly. […]
In the second half of the diary, which he most likely composed and edited between 1641 and 1642 from oral stories and written documents collected after 1637, Na added political nuance and commentary, sometimes praising, sometimes criticizing those who fought on the battlefield or argued at the court over loyalty to the king. […]
Also included are stories of military campaigns along the northern and western regions of Chosŏn, the Manchu treatment of prisoners of war, and the post–invasion debates over Manchu collusion and the proper Confucian etiquette demanded of Koreans in times of war. The diary is of particular interest because of Na’s training and his detailed attention. At one point in his career, he served as a diarist for the Office of Royal Decrees (Kŏmyŏl), and he used his professional skills when writing the diary. […]
Chosŏn-era writers certainly accepted Na’s diary as an unofficial history. […] This makes it clear that the diary circulated among a handful of scholars, although the reception of the work immediately after Na’s death in 1642 is uncertain. As he was out of favor with the court when he wrote it, Na had the freedom to explore events without fear of political retribution and could thereby offer an alternative view from the official sources. […]
The Diary of 1636 can be read as a narration of the Manchu invasion of Korea and the political and social aftermath of a premodern society at war. However, much is happening below the surface of the text. As a deft writer, Na subtly, and sometimes not so subtly, critiques the contemporary politics of the Chosŏn dynasty through the structure, tone, and context of his stories. Na’s critiques range from the decision to go to war to the acrimonious environment of political retribution in which many officials were expelled from the center of power, including himself. Na Man’gap describes how the outcome of the attack redefined the relationship between the center and the periphery—those who held power in the court and those who resided in the countryside and did not. […]
The war disrupted ties between dynasties and fractured loyalties at all levels. Korea redirected relations to Mukden (K. Shimyang, C. Shenyang), the Manchu capital, and away from Beijing, challenging Chosŏn loyalty to the Ming. Ming Chinese soldiers switched sides and fought for the Qing. Mongols joined the invasion force. Chosŏn military men supported the Manchu. Korean officials split between pro- peace and pro-war, and even a handful of expatriate Japanese fought alongside Chosŏn. Loyalty was a fluid concept. »
kiara
October 16, 2023 at 9:58 PM
I enjoyed reading his book, which provides a rare first-hand account of the Second Manchu Invasion. His daily records helped us keep track of the drama timeline.
Na Man’gap’s conversation at the end of the invasion with Crown Prince Sohyeon was touching. The crown prince was courteous and kind. He even inquired about Na’s mother and expressed gratitude for his service during the invasion.
“My Dearest” doesn’t do him justice. Most of his accomplishments in Qing are given to Jang Hyun in the drama. His wife, the crown princess, was business savvy. It was her idea to do farming. They earned a lot of money and bought as many Joseon hostages in Qing and sent them home. Some were paid to help at the farm.
He got along well with the Qing royals, and that didn’t sit well with Injo, who was paranoid that Qing would replace him with his son.
angelshadows50
October 16, 2023 at 11:44 PM
@kiara, yes thank you for adding this and your views. I feel that we have not seen everything of the Crown Prince yet in «My Dearest». However, I am not certain yet if the writer will, in the end, have portrayed him in a more conventional way or, as you say, as the really interesting person he seemed to have been in real life. He is in this K-Drama after all a side character, albeit an important one. — Why he got killed is clear from our vantage point. That was the former MBC head’s point, I should think. But will they touch this topic ? That’s a whole new film, and none which can be told from within the times I should think and possibly way too critical for a consensus television drama. Also the writer did say in her interview that she did not want to do Injo-bashing (my naming of her words) but portray him in a multi-dimensional way. — I would like to enter this additional information on the crown prince etc. from the diary into the conversations on «My Dearest» we are having here and on the recaps. I had so far deliberately not done a copy/paste job on this part of the diary … also because I ran out of time yesterday, and don’t have time the next several days until the new episodes come out
angelshadows50
October 16, 2023 at 6:58 AM
THIS IS PART 2 OF 5
THE RELATIONS BETWEEN MANCHU AND JOSEON (ON A PEOPLE LEVEL)
« The Manchu empire was divided into constituencies that included various groups and tribes based on language, lineage ties, and geographic proximity under the umbrella of the early khan’s leadership. This concept of inclusion extends to interaction with the Chosŏn dynasty.
Korea was an integral part of Jurchen-Manchu expansion and imperial identity. To create emperorship, the khan needed recognition by the Korean court and the inclusion of the Chosŏn dynasty into his expanding empire. The Manchu achieved this in the 1627 agreement with the Chosŏn, but King Injo’s withdrawal from this arrangement demanded action. Breaking the peace was not only a military threat, it was also an ideological danger to the Manchu emperorship. Allowing the Chosŏn dynasty to break away challenged the entire order and posed a threat to Manchu expansion into China.
Harder to tease out is whether key Korean figures who cooperated with the Manchu before 1636—and those who defected to the Manchu side—actually considered themselves Manchu. Unlike the amorphous area north of the frontier, by the seventeenth century, the Chosŏn dynasty had a defined frontier along the Yalu and Tumen rivers, combined with a distinct political identity extending back several hundred years at least. Those living south of the rivers were subjects of the Chosŏn dynasty. Those who lived across the rivers to the north were Jurchen, Khitan, Mongol, and Han Chinese. Those Koreans who moved across the northern border appeared to have other political identities.
Those Koreans who moved across the northern border appeared to have other political identities. Apparent from Na Man’gap’s diary is that the conflict around the frontier had forced people to move as refugees or as war captives back and forth to the Korean peninsula.
Did Chosŏn people become part of the Qing empire as Manchu or did the Chosŏn court consider those who traveled to the peninsula subjects of the dynasty? This is hard to know as their histories have largely been neglected. Those individuals noted in sources such as the Sillok tended to have language skills, education, or wealth that allowed them to move across political and linguistic borders. Na Man’gap describes some of these people in his diary. As will be shown below, the Manchu, in the early decades of the seventeenth century, captured a number of Chosŏn military men who had fought with the Ming in the northeast regions. Some of these men remained in Jurchen-Manchu lands, learned to speak Manchu, and later served as envoys between the Qing and Chosŏn courts. Judging from Manchu acceptance of the Chinese and other tribal people, as the Manchu created their empire, it would not have been a stretch for them to extend this process of assimilation and border crossing to those born on the Korean peninsula. There probably were Koreans who moved across the frontier and took Manchu identities. Na’s diary serves as a supplement to the works of New Qing history scholarship by helping to untangle issues of identity in the early period of the Manchu empire. […]
As will be shown below, the Manchu, in the early decades of the seventeenth century, captured a number of Chosŏn military men who had fought with the Ming in the northeast regions. Some of these men remained in Jurchen-Manchu lands, learned to speak Manchu, and later served as envoys between the Qing and Chosŏn courts. Judging from Manchu acceptance of the Chinese and other tribal people, as the Manchu created their empire, it would not have been a stretch for them to extend this process of assimilation and border crossing to those born on the Korean peninsula. There probably were Koreans who moved across the frontier and took Manchu identities. Na’s diary serves as a supplement to the works of New Qing history scholarship by helping to untangle issues of identity in the early period of the Manchu empire. »
NOTE : The topic of prisoners of war (after the Byeongjahoran) taken by the Qing is a difficult and not yet too well researched subject. The writer of « My Dearest » seems to be treating it in a conventional interpretation so far, although it is likely that there are more aspects to the topic (as the Manchu motivation for taking people and how many indeed they captured). But this would go beyond the scope of the drama series, I believe, in any case. — Jang Hyeon is obviously a Joseon yangban (if only one of possibly minor importance, from the countryside) who had strong connections to the Jurchen people, certainly as merchant, a livelihood he porbably took up after leaving his father’s house as he was responsible for the death of his older sister. … My current guess … ( as per 16 Ocotber 2023
angelshadows50
October 16, 2023 at 6:57 AM
THIS IS PART 3 OF 5
THE JOSEON COURT, THE BUREAUCRATS, SOCIAL STRATIFICATION IN 16TH C. KOREA
« The Chosŏn court and central bureaucracy in Seoul governed matters of the state through a Confucian lens. Confucian doctrines paid little attention to war or the importance of a well-funded military and were so influential in the fifteenth century that Chosŏn saw little need to defend itself. Theoretically, the ruler held full power over the kingdom atop the social hierarchy. For the first one hundred years of the Chosŏn dynasty, stalwart kings checked bureaucratic power, but, beginning in the sixteenth century, the bureaucracy grew cunning and made decisions based on allegiances, exerting greater control over the rulers. Kings could not stop these political competitions. Those who tried to exercise too much control over the bureaucracy were pushed aside. Within the court, rulers often sat and watched as members of the bureaucracy battled each other over matters great and small. Those in the bureaucracy, the sadaebu, often exerted real authority because kings depended upon them to run the government. Members of the sadaebu were often at odds with one another, which in turn generated political, or factional, strife. »
The sadaebu was the upper echelon of the elite yangban class. Representing only a small percentage of the population, the yangban were the scholarly and military elites, who qualified for office if they passed the government examinations. While the yangban had certain privileges, such as tax exemptions, most were impoverished and held little power. The sadaebu, on the other hand, were the governing group of the court; they continued to succeed in the highest examinations—which gave them access to government positions—and held political control. Below them, the yangin, or commoners, mostly poor peasants, were the majority of the population and carried the burden of paying land taxes and providing corvée and military service. The commoners were the ones who were largely responsible for funding the treasury of a government run by scholar bureaucrats—officials who attacked excess and surplus as supporting immoral choices that would harm the livelihoods of the people. The sadaebu and other yangban should have, in theory, paid taxes, but many yangban did not; it was a tradition that increasingly burdened the commoners. At the bottom of the social hierarchy, nobi, or slaves, were exempt from taxes or other obligations, but they had no privileges. They were considered “base” and “low” (ch’ŏn); their lives were not their own. […] »
angelshadows50
October 16, 2023 at 6:57 AM
THIS IS PART 4 OF 5
THE SITUATION « ON THE GROUND » AND HOW IT CAME ABOUT — POST-IMJIN TO MANCHU BLITZKRIEG
« In the years following the Imjin War, court officials began to improve the economy and build up defenses.30 This included passing early taxation and revenue reforms. Thousands of Koreans had died in the war, and their loss resulted in a severely damaged agricultural system—the base of government taxation and of the livelihood of the people. Routine farming had ceased for six to eight years, devastating food production. It was imperative to maintain rice paddies, as rice farming is an intricate process requiring constant work to maintain the artificial irrigation system. […]
However, domestic and international issues interfered with the rebuilding process. First, political questions arose surrounding King Kwanghaegun’s legitimacy—complicated by his proximity to the Jurchen (aka the Manchu)—that led to clashes with the scholar-official bureaucracy and a coup that culminated in his nephew, King Injo, obtaining the throne in 1623. […]
During the Imjin War, amidst concerns that the king could die without a legitimate heir, King Sŏnjo appointed Kwanghaegun as crown prince, angering one of the political factions, the Westerners (Sŏin), who advocated waiting. An opposing faction, the Great Northerners (Taebugin), supported the decision. King Sŏnjo eventually had two sons by different wives in 1601, but neither was immediately declared crown prince. However, as the children grew, more people began whispering that Kwanghaegun was illegitimate and that King Sŏnjo’s other two sons were the rightful heirs, rumors that threatened Kwanghaegun’s kingship. King Kwanghaegun’s two half-brothers were assassinated, most likely by Kwanghaegun’s supporters, which plunged Kwanghaegun into deep trouble. It was in this fraught political context that the Manchu arrived on the scene. […]
The Manchu were nomadic tribes whose lives were supported by hunting, trapping, and fishing. Some came from a forest environment, others from the plains. In addition to the Manchu, other Jurchen tribes and some Mongols lived in the region north of the Chosŏn frontier. Originally of Jurchen origin, one tribe coalesced around charismatic and militarily powerful leaders, grew into a major federation, and gained the notice of the Ming. By the 1590s, Nurhachi, their leader, emerged as a rising military power and, inspired to revive the Jurchen Jin dynasty (1115–1234) heritage, sought to conquer China for its wealth and resources. Exploiting a weakened Ming, Nurhachi expanded his power into Manchuria in the late 1610s. Based on geographic proximity, Korea was an early concern for the Manchu. As their main objective was China, they had to ensure Korea did not become a hindrance. In 1616, the Ming acted against the Manchu and began preparing for a counterattack, requisitioning thirteen thousand troops from Korea […]
The failed Ming campaign had the added effect of defeating Chinese power in Manchuria. After this loss, the Ming could no longer support Korea, a fact Nurhachi keenly understood. In 1621, all the other towns in Manchuria were captured from the Ming, making the situation even more politically tenuous in Korea. Political factions within the Chosŏn court used the threat of an invasion to gain power and vilify competing parties. The Westerners abhorred the thought of peace with the Manchu, considering them barbarians, while the Southerners urged negotiation. […]
With the Westerners in power, government policy shifted to a pro- Ming stance. King Injo was a weak king dominated by the bureaucratic officials who had enthroned him—a group of politicians belligerent toward the Manchu and supportive of the Ming. They granted Chinese generals access to Chosŏn territory, which the Chinese took advantage of to construct bases on Korean islands along the northwest coast. The Manchu were uneasy with the Ming presence and sent an army into Korea in 1627. […]
Upon recommendation by the Westerners, King Injo reneged on the promises made during the alliance ritual and resumed relations with the Ming once the Manchu troops retreated. In the years after, the Chosŏn court recognized the military disadvantages of the 1627 attack and strengthened key defenses, such as the cavalry, arquebus soldiers, and archers.62 The government built up defenses along the frontier and moved troops to the west and northwest.63 Another consequence of the defensive buildup and pro-Ming stance was that, in time, Ming bases returned to Korean territory. All of these developments indicated to the Manchu that Chosŏn had not severed its ties to the Ming. […]
The incident with Ingguldai marked the end of Manchu attempts at negotiations. In early winter of 1637, roughly fifty thousand Manchu troops crossed the frozen Yalu River and attacked. Unlike in 1627, Korean commanders did not lead the assault. The top Manchu generals, Ingguldai and Mafuta, as well as Emperor Hung Taiji, directed the campaign, indicating the seriousness of Manchu resolve to settle the Korea issue permanently. Like the previous invasion, Manchu troops were unstoppable. The Manchu struck rapidly and within four days reached Seoul. […] »
angelshadows50
October 16, 2023 at 6:56 AM
THIS IS PART 5 OF 5
HOSTAGE-TAKING AND KIDNAPPING POST-TREATY, AN MANCHU “CONFUCIANISM”, MANCHU INVASIONS VS. IMJIN
« In addition, as part of the surrender terms, senior-ranking men of the Westerner faction and their families, along with three princes, were taken to Manchuria and held hostage while other prisoners were married into Manchu clans. This hostage-taking ensured Chosŏn obedience to the Manchu. The Manchu used a different lens to view these demands. Hung Taiji dictated that the Korean king order “all the families of ministers inside and outside the court … [to] marry ours to make our good relationship solid.” Many children of leading bureaucrats were kidnapped and taken to Manchuria as hostages. Many of them suffered tremendously. Some died in Manchu prisons. […]
To ensure compliance, on this second invasion the Manchu demanded the dispatch of the crown prince and his entourage to Mukden, and Hung Taiji ordered marriage alliances between the Manchu and Chosŏn elite families. Even court minsters were required to enter into these alliances as part of the surrender terms. On the one hand, such demands appear humiliating, as the subjugated people had to provide marriage partners to the victorious Manchu. On the other, in Korea, this pattern of intermarriage had deeper historical roots from well before the 1630s. Marriage was an important element of alliance building among Northeast Asian and Eurasian tribes and polities. From Western Europe to East Asia, ruling members intermarried across large geographical areas. In the case of Korea, Silla and Koryŏ founders took daughters to help placate defeated regions. The marriage alliance between Kublai Khan of the Mongol Yuan and the Korean Koryŏ dynasty brought the two ruling courts closer together, guaranteeing cooperation and safety, especially regarding military expansion into China. […]
The Manchu once again raised the importance of marriage alliances to the Chosŏn. The relationship between the Manchu and Korea did not develop as deeply as in the Mongol era, when the crown prince married the daughter of the emperor, lived in Beijing with the imperial family, and raised children there until called to Korea upon the death of his father, the king. Four centuries later, marriage alliances remained a custom for securing peace in Northeast Asia, but the pattern of those alliances shifted away from the royal family to other leading families in Seoul. The daughter of one elite yangban was chosen as a concubine for Hung Taiji. She, and her father, helped relieve some of the rice tax tribute the Qing demanded of the Chosŏn. From the Manchu perspective, what Na and others perceived as humiliating surrender rituals, including the dispatch of the crown prince and other powerful officials, were practical acts that would solidify strong relations between the two countries. […]
Chosŏn may have claimed greater Confucian legitimacy based on its lengthy history of engaging with the Confucian Classics (these were books like Mencius, Great Learning, Analects of Confucius, and other works on philosophy and moral values that China, Korea, Japan, and Vietnam adopted for scholarship and governance), but the Manchu, through their interpreters and letter writers, proved an equal of Korea in their written responses. The war on the battlefield, fought also through the exchange of letters, proved challenging for Korea to surmount. The Manchu were as powerful with the brush as they were with the sword.
While this was a major military defeat for the Chosŏn, in retrospect, the invasion of 1636–1637 was not as militarily damaging and saw less material destruction than the Japanese invasions during the Imjin War in 1592–1598 […] The Manchu wars, on the other hand, were so rapid and were conducted with such a small and nimble military— which moved quickly in and out of Korea— that Chosŏn appeared to have been struck by lightning. Unlike the Japanese in the Imjin War, the Manchu stopped once they captured the Chosŏn capital, signaling defeat.
These rapid invasions severed Korean contact with the Ming on both occasions. After the first oath of allegiance was broken, the reprisal of the second invasion was more consequential. All of the princes in line for the throne and the sons of leading officials were transported back with the Manchu as hostages. They were released later, but by then these people had established connections and lines of communication with the Manchu, learned their customs and politics, and sometimes even the language. To some, this was a positive result and a way to further communications with the Manchu, but others thought that these hostages were too closely aligned with the Manchu and could pose a threat. »
angelshadows50
October 15, 2023 at 10:42 AM
Having just finished watching episode 12 of « 연인 » (English : My Dearest, literally : Yeon-in = Lover) I realised another important reason why I mostly, almost only, want to watch this K-Drama now — above and beyond all other Korean dramas and Western films.
Yes, this sageuk shows the (to me culturally and timewise foreign) circumstances and developments of the three scourges of the human agenda : famine, plague and war. [ Note : This is how Yuval Noah Harari describes it in his book « Homo Deus » with section headings such as « The biological poverty line » (famine) , « Invisible Armadas » (plague) and « Breaking the Law of the Jungle » (war). ] Here it is early agricultural Joseon depending on its farming produce, with the bow-and-arrow-and-sword « blitzkrieg » of the Byeonjgahoran (Second Manchu Invasion) —plus a few Western canons—, then humilitated, starved and exploited by the winner, the rising Qing, who are in the process of overthrowing the Ming Empire and who, most likely, only withdrew from Joseon so quickly because of an outbreak of smallpox (and to continue their advance on the Ming Empire of course).
These seem to be the historical facts … So, … might I congratulate myself internally by saying : Am I not the lucky one … ? This is certainly true, if only unconsciously. That’s why we watch films, read stories etc. — we will always compare to our own situation. Human beings are essentially storytelling beasts, forever comparing their experiences to what they hear from past, present and (imagined) future. The ones who have lived a nightmare, however, will, most often, not watch the fictionalisation of that nightmare. Only us, who do not know it, will watch the « faction » (fact + fiction). Experiences of Jewish people after the Second World War or experiences of the survivors of the atom bomb attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the so called hibakusha (被爆者), have shown this. They lived to tell of their experiences —by the grace of God or life, or by luck or fate—, and these experiences were even more horrendous than any fictionalised story can tell. Yet they told their stories so that we care and do not repeat humanity’s mistakes. Episodes 11 and 12 of « My Dearest » are about the aftermath of the Byeonjgahoran, in particular the staggering numbers of prisoner of wars and their stories. (as intended by the scriptwriter) Gil-Chae becomes an unintentional prisoner-of-war (in a situation where right and wrong are clearly suspended), and hence moves the storytelling forward to Qing. For the tragic story of the royal captive in Qing’s hands, the Crown Prince, Jang Hyeon becomes the spokesperson to the viewer. (see background for that in interview with the scriptwriter I posted before)
As Jang Hyeon says in episode 8 [4’53—5’00 mn] and explains at length in episode 12 of « My Dearest » (to Sohyeon, the crown prince) when asked why he followed the latter to Shenyang (romanised transliteration of Chinese name) aka Mukden (romanised transliteration of Manchu name) aka Simyang (romanised transliteration of Korean name) : « You asked me why I came to Simyang. I was curious about your fate. I thought you would end up surrendering. […] But you were very strong. You did great, Your Highness.» And he clarifies the key point about this personal tragedy for the crown prince (when latter insists that HE was not able to protect the King of Joseon) : « There is no law that says a child must protect his father. It is the father who must protect. » — a rather chillingly true statement considering the prevailing doctrines of Korean neoconfucianism. [26’47 — 27’14 mn]
THAT IS ASPECT NUMBER ONE : Storytelling of the three scourges on the human agenda in one event (the Second Manchu invasion and the aftermath), and the validity and depth of this storytelling to make me care. Next question then : what do I do with this caring ? Do I learn something by it ? Ultimately, this is what a Jewish person surviving the concentration camps or a Japanese hibakusha surviving the atom bombs will want — or a Joseon woman having survived deportation and rape. And it is the point of good storytelling as well. This is not just « eye candy » for a bored or voiceless 21st century human. What is that voice I need to reconnect to telling me? There are interesting, and, in my view, spot-on anwers to that question which C.G. Jung has left us as tools.
ASPECT NUMBER TWO :
Yes, the series production appears to be outstanding in several aspects and might, I venture to say, become a benchmark for filming and producing sageuks in the future.
The production team uses the latest cinematography to great effect (drones, sparingly but effectively, amongst other elements); sound and music are « in tune » with the story’s advancement or repetition of themes or setting the tone (no puns intented); the Manchu/Qing portrayal (bare the armour or weaponry apparently) seems to be authentic ; the lighting overall and effects of moonlight/daylight and location is adapted to the mood and the content the story wants to select ; the amount of close-ups or half shots or wider shots to portray emotions and the people who have them make excellent use of the actors’ and actresses’ skills —and not only the leads (even if, apparently, sometimes haphazardlessly put together in the editing room) ; the locations where filming took place are well chosen, although it remains to be seen how Shenyang and other Chinese places will be filmed, if they are portrayed ; does anyone know where that building which serves as Shenyang Hall (i.e. the Crown Prince’s residence in Shenyang) is in South Korea? And last but not least, the selection of costumes and props to, again, serve the story and the mood of the scenes — not only the various fans which Jang Hyeon uses throughout when he is in Joseon-dandy-type mode, but the colourful clothing of Gil Chae when she is young and unmarried and carefree, also the winter court in Namhan Mountain Fortress during the invasion … etc. etc. There are many, many more examples.
While there is quite a bit of commentary noise about the lead actors/actresses skills (and their acting skills appear to be truly excellent, even if they portray in personalities who would be about a decade younger than they are as actor/actress, at least in the beginning), the whole casting even for smallish side roles is extremely well done, I find. Everyone makes me care about this story. It is, I would say, an ensemble story.
WHICH BRINGS ME TO MY ORIGINAL POINT : what makes me so engaged in a sageuk portrayal of an event thousands of miles away from my own culture, and taking place almost 600 years ago ? What was my « new » discovery after watching episode 12?
Part of the answer I gave already : clearly, humanity hasn’t learned a bit. I could leave it there and move on. But no. This is not past, it is present — for me. It takes me a while every day to come back to my own reality, and I discover I ponder on the topics portrayed throughout the day, apparently even in my dreams, at times.
My new discovery was how elaborate « My Dearest » weaves historic timeline with fictional and factual progression. It is artful. (See further down for details) It becomes the portrayal of archetypal themes crossing space and time … to me.
In his excellent book « The Anatomy of Genres. How Story Forms Explain the Way the World Works » John Truby elaborates on how a love story as « the art of happiness » is the highest form of storytelling (“highest” is my somewhat insufficient term, but I haven’t got a better one ; I see an analogy to Abraham Maslow’s pyramide of needs).
Now, I finally also better understand the points the scriptwriter was making in her interview with Cine 21 on March 1, 2023. (The interview was published in four parts on March 11, 2023.)
[ SEE SEPARATE ENTRY FOR THE INTERVIEW ]
What I noticed after viewing episode 12 is how adept writer and production team are at weaving the storytelling in the episodes together while moving back and forth in the historic timeline and also showing the inner progression (or yearning stillstand as it may be) of the love of the two protagonists. For the viewer the time which passes between events seems sometimes instantaneous, when in fact it is not.
As Hwang Jin-young said in HER INTERVIEW : she seems to have completely internalised the historic facts as they are known, filling in gaps with some intelligent extrapolation, and weaving the dramatic story true to the historic timeline yet showing the progression (or not, as it may be) of the LOVE STORY as the ART OF HAPPINESS. What will happen to the portrayal of the historic development at the Joseon court and in Shenyang (or Beijing respectively) remains to be seen. Given the presentation so far, it will be a nuanced and intelligent, I should think.
THE HISTORIC TIMELINE OF THE LAST 4 EPS [see next fanwall post]
HopefulRomantic 🦋 Tigermoth 🦞
October 15, 2023 at 10:56 AM
I really enjoyed reading this analysis!
angelshadows50
October 15, 2023 at 1:17 PM
Thank you for this kind feedback! 🙂
angelshadows50
October 15, 2023 at 5:57 AM
The following was meant to be part of another article for my Fanwall. But it is too long to insert, so I am posting it separately. The other article will follow later.
Now, I finally also better understand the points the scriptwriter was making in her interview with Cine 21 on March 1, 2023. (The interview was published in four parts on March 11, 2023.)
THE INTERVIEW WITH WRITER HWANG JIN-YOUNG
Hwang Jin-young explained her motivation for writing (so far only) sageuk or (in a better romanised form) period dramas, sidaegeug— 시대극.
« It is attractive that period dramas naturally reveal the decisive emotions and the human figure driven to the edge of the cliff. […] I often think that this work is fun when intense human emotions of wanting to escape from the shackles of social status and social restrictions are expressed. That\’s what I am attracted to : looking into human nature and archetypes in dramatic situations rather than calmly unraveling trivial points of everyday life. » — Here we have it … Jung’s archetypes …
When the interviewer asked her, why she had chosen a particular historic period over another, Hwang Jin-young explained how her four sidaegeug (all produced by MBC) came about. Generally, she is looking « for writing in a way that adds imagination to the historical information gap.»
« My Dearest » came about as pondering on a remark Lee Byeong-hoon, a former director of MBC, had made. That the story of Crown Prince Sohyeon and Kangbin is very interesting, but too tragic to touch. Even historical drama experts had said that.
Yet, there are many materials that are difficult to solve —something also true for the Byeongja Horan—, she explains, and «in the case of 연인, I deliberately thought of the movie Gone with the Wind a lot.»
« I believed that if the conflict, hope, and beauty in the movie were superimposed on the situation of the Byeongjahoran era, it would not seem difficult, and the story of the people who lived through that era could be told convincingly. » — Here we have it — her —as she calls it— superimposition of David O’Selznick’s Gone with the Wind and the American Civil War onto the Byeongja Horan.
When writing a drama, she explains, she wants to communicate to the audience with an interesting story. « For a story to be interesting, it needs a probable connection, and that link needs to be specific to be convincing. »
She had researched the historic data on and around the Byeongja Horan meticulously in order to increase the logical probability of a story. She incorporates all information as his own through a total of three steps.
« If you see it once, you won’t understand what it means at once, so I read it through twice, and from the third time I underline the information I need. And I transfer all the materials to a folder, which becomes my own warehouse. After completing these steps, when writing a screenplay, you will be able to develop your own thoughts without referring to each material individually again. »
« I don\’t try to show a person with a specific tone of my own. […] Injo prepares his own way to deal with the Qing Dynasty, which is becoming powerful, but nevertheless he becomes the king of a defeated country. But all of a sudden, [..] I was wondering if I could criticize [him] not being ‘extraordinary\’ just because he couldn\’t get through the situation in an extraordinary way. Of course, I have no intention of sympathizing with Injo, but I hoped that viewers would be able to look into Injo\’s broken heart in more detail. So, how much even the wicked resemble \’me\’ and \’we\’. That is also my personal value. In fact, recently, many studies have been conducted that contain this perspective of re-evaluation. So I tend to show the emotions and circumstances of the villain in my work. Wouldn\’t it be too unrealistic for someone to be entirely evil? The moment it doesn\’t feel real, the immersion in the story goes down. Everyone is three-dimensional. »
« My Dearest is a drama that starts with the Byeongja Horan and shows Joseon after the Byeongja Horan. In addition to Janghyeon and Gilchae\’s love, I\’m trying to shed light on the stories of people who were taken prisoner. The number of people taken prisoner is staggering, but there is not much food. In order to add to the enjoyment of historical dramas, director Kim Seong-yong pays attention to even the smallest details such as sets, props, and costumes.»
The interviewer asked her about her way of writing in an poetic format, combining lyricism with tragedy.
« For me, the lyrical moments that coexist with the tragic moments feel very beautiful. So I often try to embody that beauty in my script. Also, when composing a drama, it feels fun to intersect conflicting emotions, so for example, putting lyricism behind a grim scene, or light-heartedness behind a tragic one. In order for a battle or strategy to look intense, it needs to have lyricism to stand out more. When the two extremes harmonize, the story seems richer. » — In my view she managed that extremely well with the scenes in the Qing war camp, as an example.
Hwang Jin-young’s views on the relationship of story (scriptwriter) and production (the PD and all team members) are also very visible in « My Dearest » I feel :
« I think the script needs to give accurate information. After all, the essence of content is the story. Each writer has a different inclination, but I tend to explain the atmosphere and acting tone that I envisioned in my head in as much detail as possible in the script. Looking at the script, I think the writer should provide a more specific script so that each team can draw a common picture, so that the shooting can proceed more smoothly.»
DancingEmma
October 16, 2023 at 10:41 PM
One useful thing to note (but you might already be aware of it) is that in Korean “시“ is pronounced as “shi” and not as ‘si’ so the romanisation is entirely wrong. This distortion is why I use a modified romanisation if and when I find it necessary to use it at all in order to get as close as possible to the actual Korean pronunciation.
ps – Another example which I often see on this cite is when the romanised “maknae” is used for “ 막내” which is incorrect. The Korean pronunciation is “mangneh” because it does not exactly follow what is written in Hangeul. Just one of the many such distortions.
angelshadows50
October 16, 2023 at 11:59 PM
Thanks! No I was not aware of it. I realised that the topic of romanisation is a really complicated one … but the only useable table I found so far is the one on Wikipedia EN with the Unicode characters. So I have created an Excel spreadsheet in which I copy/paste the characters I find and then write the romanised forms under it. Then I put it into Google translate and get an (often) so-so translation. For short texts I can create this more easily, but for along text this is a huge task. If I select the audio button on Google Translate to hear the pronounciation, yes I notice sometimes that the voicing of the sound is different from what I would have done with it in romanising it.
Also, there is this other, Cune Reischauer system, which academics use, but which I find pretty cumbersome to write/read …. So your way is probably better, but for that one needs to understand the language in the first place, probably, right?
angelshadows50
October 17, 2023 at 12:04 AM
I’ll post an example on the fantail
angelshadows50
October 17, 2023 at 12:11 AM
*fanwall
DancingEmma
October 17, 2023 at 12:17 AM
I love ‘fantail’! It is a great typo/text replacement!
DancingEmma
October 17, 2023 at 12:14 AM
I am impressed by your scholarly approach and analysis so please don’t think I was criticising you. The Wikipedia and other Internet sources are using romanisation because unfortunately the problem goes way back to when Korean letters were translated’ to English by the first Westerners who publicised them outside Korea as such. Not only they couldn’t properly approximate many of the sounds, they also didn’t understand how many pronunciation rules Korean has (visavis how the proximity of certain letters to each other in two syllables can chang their pronunciation) now commonly criticised as highly inaccurate and misleading by a number of good native speaking Korean teachers who teach online.
angelshadows50
October 17, 2023 at 9:21 AM
I know, @dncingemma. I did not take your comments as criticisms in any way. Instead, I find it most helpful to have someone knwledgeabe to talk to about the Korean language. As you might have noticed, I love languages! Using language is our first point of contact in communication in many, many situations. And I like the sound of the Korean language (whereas I do not like the sound of Chinese for example ; I always think people have potatoes in their mouth when they talk.) — I signed up for a Korean language learning course via the Internet, but so far I have not had ANY time for this … So for now, I am trying to understand the structure of this language. You saying that there are many different pronounciation rules is, for example, a new learning experience for me right now (which I cherish).
I can distinguish, most often, an American from a Canadian from a British from a Scottish, an Australian or a New Zealander speaking English ; I can distinguish a person from France speaking French and a person from one of the African countries or the North African countries speaking French or a French Swiss speaking French ; I can distinguish Spanish spoken by a Spaniard from Spain, or a Columbian or Chilean. And of course, as German, I can distinguish a German (even regional accents) speaking German, from an Austrian or a Swiss German.
The other day I overheard an Asian person speaking, and I could recognize that it was Korean! I turned around, and indeed … yipee, I thought. I recognise spoken Japanese although I don’t understand a lot.
It bugs me somewhat that people often are so negligent when it comes to other cultures’ most important tool. I would like to understand Korean, not because I think I might be travelling to the country often now, but because I recognise that language forms mind and matter. In that way, for example, the polite form which young Koreans and foreigners find so difficult (apparently) is something very important in my mind for the Korean culture, the Korean way of life AND the mind of a Korean person. That historic Korean dramas use the personal name in their subtitled translations when a person is addressed by another is a mistake in my view. (Rakuten viki does not do this most of the time though, but Netflix and Kocowa do). Same for contemporary K-dramas. I recognise that Koreans often address another by their functional title, also in comemporary settings. I think that is a very valid and good idea since it shows straight away the relationship which exists between these two people; there is no personal relationship as yet. Just as an example. I like that because Western languages have ALL lost this, so far as I can tell.
DancingEmma
October 17, 2023 at 12:37 AM
Thank you for this. Really interesting. One concern that I have is the valorisation of “Gone with the Wind” as GWTW glorified slavery and it is rightly derided by many. I wish the scriptwriter hadn’t just included their admiring views but also had acknowledged the underlying horrors of slavery.
angelshadows50
October 17, 2023 at 8:26 AM
I feel she did not NOT do that intentionally. My sense was that she is aware of the problematic part of GWTW but she only picked the love story evolvement of the movie leaving that particular AMERICAN HISTORIC aside as it was of no consequence for her as Korean. Maybe it was just a question of knowledge, meaning she wanted such a female character as her protagonist, with a male protagonist matching a roguish Rhett Butler but « in a Korean way » and for the 1600s. Her knowledge of such a character from film or literature might have been limited. And I, too, must admit, from the top of my head I would not know any myself.
angelshadows50
October 17, 2023 at 8:44 AM
Just thinking : if my assumption below is correct, i.e. the writer had focused on the love story part with a female lead who is such a strong women coming from her dainty spoiled Southern Belle background (hunkydory country yangban who turns men’s heads in the Korean version), then Gil Chae’s kidnapping and being dragged to Qing and almost abused makes even more sense. It shows the strength of her survival character (like Scarlet’s). — I also feel, the writer is starting to digress a bit from the GWTW parallel (except that Gil Chae’s husband will probably die like Frank Kennedy). — Also the Jang Hyeon is now already pretty different from the Rhett Butler, I feel. He is a survivor and he is kind and he knows the ways of the world … but that’s where the comparisons end for me. Rhett Butler —in the end— left his Scarlet with that famous line : frankly, my dear, I don’t care a damn … — and she thinks of Tara, i.e. the land (as the innermost source of her being). I don’t think that’s Gil Chae’s way … she is not linked to the earth in this way, but I do not know at the moment what the writer might choose instead. That short scene in EP 1 where Jang Hyeon (in a Korean scholar’s attire by the way) is facing a crowd of men with pitch forks and swords etc. … and he repeats this one sentence … asking (Gil Chae, most likely) if she hears the sound of flowers … I feel it will have something to do with this. But currently no idea what.
angelshadows50
October 15, 2023 at 5:57 AM
Damn, it doesn\’t like the triangle brackets because they are the container holders for html tags … so here it comes again, without these …
angelshadows50
October 15, 2023 at 5:53 AM
Sorry, the easier to read formatting in the last entry was lost since I still don\’t know how to use html tags …
angelshadows50
October 5, 2023 at 2:31 PM
By the way, it\’s now the second time I heard from a Korean source that Jang-Hyun was in fact a historic person. I thought he was entirely fictional, but not so, apparently. The fictional bit is just his superhuman abilities, as in being an expert swordsman/fighter, a deft diplomat and realist advising the crown prince and a lover of the century …
kiara
October 5, 2023 at 3:19 PM
Based loosely, maybe?
I read about it, but it doesn’t seem to fit the Jang Hyun in the drama like the other historical figures.
angelshadows50
October 5, 2023 at 11:51 PM
Yeah definitely loosely. The political bit seems to be the closest.
angelshadows50
October 5, 2023 at 1:26 PM
Ah, for @kiara in particular … maybe we should make a My Dearest fan list ?
kiara
October 5, 2023 at 3:21 PM
Sounds good! I don’t know where to start, though :).
angelshadows50
October 5, 2023 at 11:55 PM
(chuckle) okay, I’ll think about it and come back to you … 😉
kiara
October 6, 2023 at 6:29 AM
Feel free to do it. I’ll be drowning in history for anything else.
angelshadows50
October 5, 2023 at 1:25 PM
Ladies and gents, new contribution: I just found this playlist for the interpretation of the latest video clip offerings for « My Dearest » Part 2. And different from the other Korean YouTubers, this person uses an AI to translate into English. The translation comes out okay, I find. He analyses the latest MBC teasers, so this is good. Someone else had posted the last teaser on Dramabeans, so that link it out there already. There are also a couple of new character posters for Part 2. Here the link to the playlist :
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLmrpoGuNCzjxvemNQXdv048Pmn4bPrFl_
Second thing : I saw a cute 45 or so seconds promo clip for a fun-looking MBC programme on the 9th at 10:45 PM, also for « Yeonin » Part 2 … with the lead actress amongst others, at least if I understood this correctly. If there is anyone in Korea and fancies taping it … ? Here is the link for the clip : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpG9E1GO0Xs
angelshadows50
October 5, 2023 at 8:21 AM
@seonha … help! How do I delete a post from my Fanwall once I posted it …. any idea?
sonai
October 5, 2023 at 8:42 AM
On your fan wall, you should see a button in the top right corner of each post: three light grey dots, vertically. Clicking on it opens a context menu per post, and from there, you can select “Delete”.
Hope this helps!
Seon-ha
October 5, 2023 at 9:21 AM
@angelshadows50 You don’t need to hear this from me, but I want you to know that @sonai is absolutely right!!!
Healer’s
October 5, 2023 at 9:36 AM
On the top right corner of the post, you click the 3 dots and choose “Delete”
angelshadows50
October 5, 2023 at 9:54 AM
Thank you all !! @sonai @attiton @claire2009 and all others who I missed! Now I understand …
angelshadows50
October 5, 2023 at 8:19 AM
I don\’t see how I can DELETE a post …. hmmm (scratching head)
Healer’s
October 5, 2023 at 9:38 AM
Comment was deleted
angelshadows50
October 5, 2023 at 8:18 AM
Ignore below post please, this was just a test for myself …. nothing to do with Dramabeans …