Here is your Open Thread, which is here for you to chat about anything you want, whether it be drama-related or not. Nothing’s off-topic here! Spoilers may be rife, so proceed accordingly.
From what I have read and seen on variety/talk shows, actor Daniel Choi seems like a nice, easygoing guy. Choi has laid back acting style which mirrors his personality. He is known for doing favors for friends, usually guest cameos in their shows. On a variety show, Choi recently said when he was in Busan to visit his friend, Kang Eun Tak, he was cast in Kang’s indie movie, SUNNY DAY, his first movie role in 9 years. No big deal, right? I guess he is not one to chase bigger roles. Prior to this year, he had not starred in a drama since 2022. I wondered why, so I looked up his resume to learn he has been hosting a KBS FM radio show since 2013 and doing variety/reality shows. Maybe this is a trend, as actress Park Ha Sun has been a radio host for the past several years. Career diversification is a good hedge against an entertainment production recession. This review was instigated by the news Choi would be joining RUNNING MAN as a “rental” member.
I love Radio! RADIO ROMANCE (2019) is one of my top so-called "guilty pleasures" and the story's message that radio reaches into so many lives, in a healthy way, is spot on.
Most of the drama lists I found interchanged the Korean Folk Village (located much closer to Seoul and often used for historical dramas) with this one so I don't trust the lists. Hopefully koreandramaland will return and you can search there.
As of today, the biggerwildfires have now been contained—thank goodness— according to my friend who’s currently living in Korea (her husband is in the U.S. army currently deployed there). Now the struggle is trying to contain the smaller fires, as it’s been “hella dry and windy” (in the words of my friend’s message she sent me this afternoon when I was checking in on her)
March has been one work challenge after the other and it took its toll on my mental health last week. I got flashbacks to my pre-burnout period years ago and was sleeping badly, so a small break from everything was necessary.
Fortunately, I knew that it was temporary and the bad week merely the last straw. Things could be no more different this week! Ever since I finished the last obstacle Wednesday noon, I am on leave and my hours have been filled with reading books, Dramabeans and watching episodes, movies and writing Dramabeans posts beforehand to be able to publish on time. Cherry on top? Always followed by a good night’s sleep.😴
April might get busy as well, so the recharge is necessary. Besides, I need to empty my schedule for the next batch!😆
POLITICS - the most entertaining n exciting text podcast that only i've kept active. all praises r mine. self-praise d most realistic thing u can do knowing fully well d depth of it.
i said need more inflation - yeah increase but as much making u sweat. money opens every path - money more or lack of it brings change - most imporant - social change.
u r in pinch - now u care.
chaos - not much - society needs this churning.
Erdo boy n neta boy - both hv played all cards - now whether they can escape this storm? they mostly can - phony churning doesn't work.
Canada - urgently needs d churning to clean d system.
america - as said before - d +ve is 2032 - no churning from obse people - no cleaning.
Happy Friday, Beanies! I've been sick for multiple reasons this entire week and generally drained, so there won't be much music tonight, sorry. I'll make up for it next week... probably...
First, we finally got an official cut of LYN performing “Only wish” on DragonTV's TV Drama Quality Festival – I will never properly warm up to this track, I suppose, but he sounded and looked great: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3Yxv8QtEmI
Acceptance speech feat translation – you can't see it very clearly, but he was totally shining with pride (extra cute since a few days prior during livestream he was all “I hope I'll get it!” and then he did!): https://x.com/fandoestrans/status/1902361119932698857
I've also went to watch an entire Hi6 episode I talked about 2 weeks ago (with Vietnamese to English autosubs – quite a trip even for me, but surprisingly readable, 100% recommend if you wanna laugh), as well as few others, and now I'm cringing so hard at what a hopeless ladies man our guy is, ewww))) You know this kind of dude who's always oh-so-nice and caring to girls while perfectly willing to sell his bros for a cornchip if you give him the chance? That's him))) Not that he ever made a big secret out of this trait/preference of his, but it's one thing to see him softly bossing around hordes of female fans, and quite different to watch it in a lesser, more personal scale. No wonder his male classmates years ago were out for his blood, he's SO shamelessly annoying about the whole thing^^ Entire episode if you wanna see with your own eyes what I'm rambling here about: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLaL9eQ6HQw
Trash-talking the boy aside – that's my love language, Ning-ge, don't misunderstand! - that particular episode also gave us a brilliant moment of Yuning nearly failing to recognize his own song during a game. Guess that can happen when you release so many of them regularly, but still, he was right to be embarrassed. The entire segment, including “Ask heaven” (WORD OF HONOR OST), “Love the country, but love the beauty more” (guys, why I recognized this melody before yall did? it's YOUR cultural heritage!) and all the hilarious thinking process behind the two, performed with orchestra famous for costume drama OSTs for a maximum emphasis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgGZKB-6Iag
And an old cover that popped up in my recommendations at the last minute – Daniel Chan's “The heart already knows”. Not Yuning's best sound, not sure what went wrong here – too hard to sing or maybe he was sick... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuUnldaI-xs
Bonuses: more photos from DragonTV gala – I like this batch better, esp blue lightning (so atmospheric!) and poses in white outfit (even the wall gets sexy kabedon, when will be my turn?). Scroll the thread down: https://x.com/LiuYuning_ID/status/1905558077753229418
After fans complaining of not getting much footage from him lately – and his absolutely fiery “you won't get more, I HATE being filmed” rejection rant as result – the tsundere gege showed mercy and shared another vlog of him goofing around while dubbing ADWAD. Enjoy the silly goose's bare face and bird's nest of unstyled hair, among other things))) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBxxPI0eL44
I was mostly flabbergasted at how loud back vocals in TV cut sounded - what for? It's a very intimate, inner monologue type of song, not a grand church choir material! And he doesn't need this much extra help either, as we can clearly hear in studio fancam. Oh well, I guess it's not a primary music event, so that was the best their sound editors could deliver.
I loved this performance of Only wish. (Btw, I liked that song so much that I never skipped the ending credits. I don't know how to explain it, but there's something very soothing in that theme).
It DOES sound soothing, but I cannot unsee lyrics no matter how I try, it always makes me angry. Never skipped outro either, but simply out of respect (esp after Youku did him dirty and put someone else's version in first few episodes initially).
NOTES FROM 9TAILEDVIXEN'S FINAL WEEK OF MARCH 2025:
(A) LIFE NOTES
It's now the final stretch of Women's History Month and my nonprofit is almost at the finish line with wrapping up our campaign for the month. And I am looking forward to a slightly less insane work schedule over the next couple of months. Still insane but slightly less so.
Meanwhile, I astonished my Thursday Aerial Yoga teacher by climbing the silks and stretching out into my first pose (a mid-air split) like a boss. She had been following my progress over the past year or so and is very impressed at how far I've come.
In more amusing news - ARMYs across the world are going bananas because J-Hope is doing all sorts of sexy moves during his concert tour and lives LOL! My ARMY friend who attended one of his recent concerts said ovaries were exploding everywhere:
If this is what happens when just one BTS member is back on stage, who knows what would happen when the entire band gets back together again this summer. I think we might be seeing ARMYs fainting across the world.
(B) THIS WEEK IN KOREAN WOMEN'S NEWS
1. South Korean mayor sparks outrage by blaming female employees for wildfire woes
A mayor in South Korea has sparked outrage by blaming female employees for difficulties in suppressing devastating wildfires that have plagued the country.
The remark was made by Kim Doo-gyeom, mayor of Ulsan in southeastern Korea, during a wildfire briefing in the city on Tuesday.
“There are limitations on the number of public officials we can mobilise when a wildfire breaks out in the region,” he said as quoted by The Korea Herald. “And nowadays, there are many female employees, so it is not easy to send them into rugged mountain areas.”
2. Korean men more willing to become parents, while women's views hold steady, survey shows
Korean men have grown to be slightly more willing to become parents while women have not, a report showed.
According to the 2024 Seoul Family Report published by the Seoul Family Center, more women than men believe "Korean society is not conducive to raising children."
"It seems that the traditional gender role expectation that women are in charge of child care is projected," the report stated, "The background of women not wanting to become parents is the burden of becoming main caregivers and that Korean society that is not parent-friendly."
low week on drama
miss an interesting variety show
Film crew coming from korea next week, I dont quite understand their plan. It ´s wolves and nightclubs so far. what kind of documentary is this.
this week in the library:
is internet banking installed on your computers and does it open automatically when I sit down?
are you open 10-17 during day or during night?
I don´t remember the name or author of the book or what it was about but it was on a shelf.
does your internet have a translation?
can I get that book about horses but with a fox on the cover?
*hand raised* Me: yes? Patron: could you bring me a coffee? (what am I a secretary?)
what is the password for this book?
No I dont have 2 minutes to "read my debt off" (stands 11 minutes in line to pay debt) oh well.
someone wrote and asked for "pangeautomaat" (Bucket machine) instead of Pangaautomaat (ATM)
I have a dilemma though. I seriously do not like a certain colleague who kind of pries and is annoyingly submissive. like they try to be good but it is to the point it is icky.
"Could you bring me a cup of coffee?"
😂🤣😂🤣
I was just skimming the text so went back to see if it was a superior at a meeting or a visiting author at an event.
But it was just someone using the library!
That's so offensive and so funny! Preposterous!
I was trying to think of comebacks, like asking them to do some random favour back. "Yes, if you will knit me this sweater." or "Yes, If you will do my shopping, I can make you a cup in the meantime".
Or say there's a coffee machine at the library, then saying "Yes, that'll be [coffee prize + 30$ ]."
Koreans culture and age is strange at times. Traditional Korean age had a child at birth being born 1 year old. Then, on January 1st, everyone had another year added to their age. A child born December 31st would be 2 years old on January 1st. South Korea recently changed this custom to follow international age.
There were several possible explanations for this old age counting custom: one, Koreans strict honorifics towards elders was simplified by this method. Today, people still use the year of birth to determine whether honorifics are needed in speech.
There also may have been a belief that a child at birth was one year old (life begins at birth). It also could lessen the parental stigma of a unhealthy baby dying at birth. When Korea was very poor and infant mortality rates were high, parents did not register their children until 6 months or more after birth.
Hyundai means "modernization" so I think this must be a trendy Millennial thing to keep their youth. Or it could be a fashion statement that Koreans age better so this a comparative age.
I always thought an extra year comes from Koreans counting person's age since conception and not birth, and with two calendars - modern Solar and traditional Lunar-Solar (correct me if I'm wrong here, but purely Lunar one is a thing in different part of world, not Eastern Asia?) one - things got muddled even more.
Potato Lab: "Mi-kyeong Has No Function"
The way Mi-kyeong is studied at work and dismissed i a lot like how countless women have seen their work described as nothing.
I am reading Emma Holten’s book “Deficit; How Feminist Economics Can Change Our World” (a somewhat fanfaric translation of the Danish title: ”Underskud: Om værdien af omsorg” ("Deficit: On the Value of Care").
Apart from just saying: ”Yes! I always wanted to say that, but I didn’t have the words!” (Nor the historical knowledge) , … apart from that, there was this passage that made me think ”Potato Lab!”
The book is translated into English, but I am sitting with the Danish version, so this is my translation. I hope I have gotten the financial terms right. You could more or less insert Kim Mi-kyeong everywhere the text says ”Mia”.
So this woman, Mia, has a job that she likes and is really good at. But her company is bought, and now she suddenly has to register every minute of everything that she does, specifying her job to atoms.
Quote:
“Frederick Winslow Taylor in the 1910s took the mechanism of economics to a new level and set out to structure workplaces, so they would function more like a well-oiled clockwork. He called it Scientific Management." (p. 191)
In the car factory, skilled welders were hard to just substitute, and therefore were strong in negotiations for better wages, safety, and hours. By splitting up their work into tiny parts, unskilled workers could quickly learn their small part. Three unskilled workers had way less negotiation power than one skilled.
“It was a similar analysis that the private equity firm had made on Mia’s workplace. And in that analysis, Mia had stood out as a worryingly skilled welder. Not because she was complaining, but because her role was porous* and social. When at work she helped a bit with one project of shared ideas at the After Work Friday Bar with colleagues from a completely different department, it was no longer clear what part of value creation in the company that came from Mia, and which one came from others. That made her the most dangerous an employee can be in a modern workplace; immeasurable and thus irreplaceable..
If she asked for higher wages or decided to have a new job, the equity firm would have a hard time finding a new Mia, because they didn’t know exactly where her talent and skills were at play.
Therefore, she had to be registered and mechanised. They needed to know what she was doing, so if a new Mia was hired, the transition would be easy.
Of course, this took away Mia’s bargaining power – as well as her job satisfaction**.” (p. 192)
*Porous: Can this word be used this way in English? Combining skills in intuitive ways, breathable, firm and fragile at once. Merriam-Webster does not register this meaning, but one of their examples explains time as porous, so …
**Job...
**Job satisfaction in the original Danish: “Arbejdsglæde”: Work Joy. A stronger word than “job satisfaction”, but a common word in Denmark, and precise for how Mia used to feel about her work. We have job satisfaction, too, “jobtilfredsstillelse”, but Work Joy is stronger, and not just a word; it’s an actual thing, and Mi-kyeong has it. Or had it. And she was spreading it, too.)
My dear Taguettes. I am tagging you again, even with no gifs (I always link to them at least in my what we're watching). But I want to keep in contact, that's why. If you don't like to be tagged for written comments, tell me.
Oh no, you got cut off! I like that usage for porous.
It's so interesting whenever I see references to Taylorism. I grew up reading Cheaper By the Dozen, and it kind of blew my mind when I read history books as an adult in which the Galbraiths (who were Taylorists, I shouldn't leave out) are the villains.
I'm going to request the Holten book at the library now.
I have written the last bit, too but it is awaiting moderation because there are some links in it.
I am so glad you will order that book! I only came out on the 6th of March so they may not have it yet. But then you will be at the top of the line, when they get it!
Bother! While we're waiting, here is the text, without links and tags, of the last few sentences:
**Job satisfaction in the original Danish: “Arbejdsglæde”: Work Joy. A stronger word than “job satisfaction”, but a common word in Denmark, and precise for how Mia used to feel about her work. We have job satisfaction, too, “jobtilfredsstillelse”, but Work Joy is stronger, and not just a word; it’s an actual thing, and Mi-kyeong has it. Or had it. And she was spreading it, too.)
@too_much_tv. It just so happened that you made the mistake of straying into a subject I taught about for years as a historian of twentieth century U.S., so of course, I'm compelled to comment!
Taylor and to a much lesser degree Frank Gilbreth (who began his career under Taylor) deserve some villainizing, because they were all about workplace efficiency as worker control. Taylor in particular was so arrogant that when working as a consultant, he would ignore the extensive hands-on knowledge and experience of machinists and other manual workers, substituting abstract "time-motion" studies that ignored how people work. Frank Gilbreth began in a similar pseudo-scientific fashion, breaking up movements in the tiniest motions, as if that would somehow produce a better workplace.
Lilian, however, was trained as a psychologist, (in fact, she not only had a Ph.D. from Brown; she had actually previously earned a PH.D. from my alma mater, University of California, but was not awarded it because she moved out of state.) When she and Frank formed their firm, the emphasis was much more on worker motivation and satisfaction. This was still a top down way of defining work, so not necessarily worker-friendly, but it was a much more effective and humane way of thinking about the workplace, and does not deserve the ignominy associated with Taylor.
In fact Lilian deserves a lot of positive recognition, since it is now clear she was responsible for a lot of the work credited to her husband, which she did while she was raising her 11 children. Just an amazing woman. Cheaper by the Dozen, while a fun movie, totally devalues her achievements, focusing on Frank.
Thank you! What a lot of knowledge!
Emma Holten's book is about more than one kind of unacknowledged value; raising eleven children (after having grown them in one's body and given birth to them!) would certainly be part of what she talks about.
Piecework was one of the key reasons for the formation of the International Ladies Garment Workers Union in the US. It's basically a way to deprive people of a wage. We mostly remember the Triangle Shirtwaist Fire of 1909 because it was so dramatic, but the union was also in response to piecework.
Today those are the people who organize hotel cleaners. Considering all the things that we are up against in the world, the idea of a union for people who clean in hotels is so amazing.
But I also didn't expect, from what I learned about unions as a kid, how many times they would save me as an adjunct college teacher.
What did you learn, that you were surprised for the union to be a great help?
To me, unions is one of the few ways to have a chance of making any form of justice and sense, when each employee is up against a corporation.
Sometimes, to express disdain for someone speaking, Danish people say "Did you hear a flea bark?"
Without unions, each employee is a flea barking alone.
Aha! It was Gilbreth! I knew them from the books, and there was a scene where Frank introduces himself to Lilian's family and spells his name all the variant ways. I forgot which one was the real way! I did watch the film, or at least one of them, or a sequel. But I read all the books!
It was Lilian who was painted in a negative light in a book on feminist home design that I read a mere...three decades after it was published! There was a discussion of Lilian Gilbreth as part of the backlash against feminist approaches to home economics.
But I don't agree that the children devalued her achievements in their memoirs. Taylorism was anti-union and anti-worker, but the Gilbreths were loving parents. At least their kids thought so.
In the 1960s and 1970s the Japanese to some extent gave Taylor a belated comeuppance in the form of "Lean" (aka The Toyota Way) whose fundamental principle was simply that, as my son (who is an Industrial Engineer} always says "the guys on the shop floor know what is really going on": By respecting the knowledge of the regular workers one could actually become more efficient because 'top down' is actually fundamentally inefficient. In effect they turned the whole thing into 'bottom up' when it came to organizing work.
This is just such a commonsense approach that you wonder why it isn't always practiced--except that we all know those higher up in the hierarchy who are convinced that their position indicates their superior knowledge in all respects.
In fact I'm thinking of one person right now whose stunning arrogance is destroying crucial government functions, and not just the ones eliminated for ideological reasons. I have a nephew who is an engineer for one of his companies, and one component of his job is to figure out how to bypass this CEO's fortunately sporadic but often random directives and make things work, without getting fired.
Another reason is of course that the wealth they want to acquire does not consist of the happy smiles of their employees, but in money, money, and money. That means that the purpose of knowing more about the work is to be able to produce more, and prefereably fire someone, too.
The (wo)man on the floor will love to produce more, but even better if it is better quality. They will not enjoy firing their colleagues.
Also, if it ruins the body of the one producing more they will not want to do it. A lot of high-producing industry counts on having access to a generous amount of bodies that they can demand the most possible from for a few years and then discard.
That last thing may not be Taylor - but I know that they used to find the best sewer were my aunt worked and check her time. From how many pants or whatever she made in an hour they then decided how a reasonable hour's wages could be split in that amount of pants, and the sewers were then paid per pair of pants, resulting in exactly *one* person being able to make a fair living - at least for some years while her body and eyes could still uphold that tempo - and everybody else were just wrecking their bodies trying to live up to her.
Looking in the Danish dictionary I see that sewers are the example they mention, too. But akkordarbejde - "piecework", it seems to be called - can be done in any field if you split up the whole process enough and empty the soul out of that work while decreasing the amount of different movement to be made so as to optimize the wearing out of bodies.
(I am having an angry day, apparently).
Oh wow! The first thing that popped into my head reading this was CHEAPER BY THE DOZEN (1950) with the wonderful Clifton Webb and a superb Myrna Loy.
Oftentimes, I think about those who I would put in a locked room for 3 months and then put THE MAGNIFICENT AMBERSONS (1942) and CHEAPER BY THE DOZEN on a continuous loop.
I also like the movie Cheaper by the Dozen, although I have to say, The Magnificent Ambersons, with the tremendous Joseph Cotten and Orson Welles as a brilliant director, is a big cut above. I've seen that one 3 times. Continuously for 3 months might be a little much, but it is one of the underrated classics of U.S. cinema.
When I said "Cheaper by the Dozen" as a family memoir devalued Lilian Gilbreth, I didn't mean to devalue Myrna Loy's portrayal of Lilian Gilbreth!
She is one of my favorite actresses of all time. She also was a really admirable person as well!
I luv luv luv Joseph Cotten, most especially the Joseph Cotten of THE FARMER'S DAUGHTER which is one of my all-time favorite blues killers. And, there is nothing quite like the witty, lovely Myrna Loy.
Lately, I've been considering that 3 months might not be enough.
The way you describe Cheaper By the Dozen reminds me of Durrell's "My family and other animals".
I don't know how I would feel about the work of the parents; it is lovely if someone comes and shows you how your work can be done easier and faster.
But it's not fun when someone (esp, that guy, Taylor) comes and demonstrates that your skills doesn't count, that half-assed is good enough to make a profit, that if you thought you had worked and learned so that you were in a position to ask for a fair wage, you can forget it, because three unskilled, easily suppressible workers can do half-assed well enough until they can be substituted by bots.
In Cheaper By the Dozen, the children recall their father saying, "Find me the guy who is too lazy to scratch himself." (Weird things stuck with me from these books!) He had this idea that the laziest worker was the one who would show the least wasted motion in the work.
Indeed I think the workers are usually the experts on their own work.
@ceciliedk I am not quite with you in your interpretation Kim Mi-Kyeong, but the problem is the way the writer of Potato Lab has positioned her as a character, not that I'm disagreeing with about the nature of work and how specialization has often been used to attack the value of women's labor in general--or, alternatively, to better exploit women's labor by subdividing it and declaring it "unskilled."
In my opinion, they needed to give My-kyeong some sort of relevant background. If not a scientific degree, at least a hands-on background in agriculture, either, say, because she grew up on a farm, or because she was worked with crops growing up, so that her work knowledge was convincing--instead of just positing that she moved from what (general management? sales analyst? Its unclear what she did) and became invaluable because she was a hard worker and loved potatoes.
First of all, it kind of defies belief in an era of modern agricultural research, where every woman working in the lab above the level of maintenance worker or janitorial staff--even as general manager, say--would have at least a degree in a related field, if not a Ph.D. (which would be more likely.)
Second, at least in the U.S. women did play a significant role in scientific research, as scientists not just as someone competent and hardworking. In the late 19th century, for example, when the USDA was one of the most active government agencies, women played a key role in many scientific studies the agency generated. They were most often women with scientific degrees, who needed an occupational outlet for their expertise, and the USDA was willing to hire them as research "assistants" (although not necessarily credit them in their publications.)
So if the Potato Lab had made Mi-kyeong someone with a science degree who was forced to work elsewhere until she got the Potato opportunity, then she would have my full sympathy.
As it is, if I was to take the show seriously (which I do not!) I would argue the whole lab deserves to be eliminated as a waste of money, because everyone working there with the exception of Mi-kyeong (who is competent, but so what!) is a buffoon, regardless of whether the "maroo" potato is any good or not!
I can see what you mean, that she should have an education.
But also, a lot of times people can become specialists within an area that interests them a lot, especially if they already have a higher education and have learned to choose their sources well and collect knowledge in a practical way. She is probably made unrealistic, and that *can* be a campaign to tell people that they can be adaptable and fit in with a surprising career; I know some are very eager to promote stories of people majoring in history who become PR narrative experts or just salesmen and -women etc.
Whatever the story behind it and the realism of that, she is the only one who actually prioritizes her potato work, and even if she has a hard time defining her job, she is actually the exception to the buffoonery at the lab. I don't think she could do all the work alone, but if she had two or three hard-working interns, she could run the whole thing better than it is run now.
Anyways; the thing that her work was "whatever need to be done at any one time" and she gets fired for that fitted exactly with the way skilled workers with an allround knowledge and a ... work joy ... based on their interest in the company and satisfaction when things were done well ... are made to joy-drainingly describe their own work day in details, and after that treated as valueless and maybe even fired.
Kim Mi-kyeong is childish enough to create ample silliness to laugh at, overreacting again and again, but if we accept her as who she is in the Potato Lab, she is also "too much" or rather, she works for ten, there.
And the draining of meaning from work and substituting coherence with manageableness is happening a lot - it is just very clearly shown here, and I was just reading about it.
As for economic theory and practice, her role as an all-the-things-everywhere-all-the-time worker could just as well have been with a man. I am sure the 1910-welder's described were not women. The majority of the work that goes unnoticed and devalued is housework and childcare. It is so undervalued that economics have concluded that women cost society a whole lot of money and give very little in return; because they only count the money, and if they put any price on house chores at all, it is only what a lowest-possibly-paid worker could have been hired to do.
If they tried to figure out how much you would owe someone to go to work and risk the unpleasant process and the lasting damage to the body from a pregnancy and birth, a the state would not be able to afford births at all.
But the book, as I said, is not only about women. It is also about pretending that men are not missing out when they work full time while their children are babies. Or the welder that we mentioned before, who could have all sorts of different skilled jobs and then lose the position and respect he had and had worked to get; Weaver. Harvester. Typesetter.
I am finally watching When Life Gives You Tangerines. I am way behind the people who are commenting on the recap posts. I just finished Episode 8. I am crying SO MUCH!
It's really magic when the writers--well, when the writers, directors and entire cast, but let's start at the foundation--can combine the particular and local with experiences of universal emotion. The slang diction with the high diction, the poetry with the haggling over fish, the aspiration for learning and the steadfast belief in exerting effort--this is why Korean dramas succeed! Also being unafraid to be sentimental and to have the characters cry is, you know, good. That is, it's a gamble, but you can't do anything without some risk.
Also, the translators doing the subtitles on Netflix must be high. Why would you "translate" a Jeju lullaby into a well-known Southern US lullaby? Do you think the people watching won't understand it's a lullaby? (I'm presuming it was a Jeju one, I wish I had an expert to point out the specific regionalisms for the entire show...)
I am only just beginning. I hesitated because the forecast clearly said lots of "bittersweetness" which I hate. But also, it was clear this was going to be good!
As for translation, it is always a dilemma. It is not completely crazy to translate a lullaby to another lullaby, giving the feeling of well-known comfort to the viewer, but personally, I think I would have chosen to translate the Korean words, like you would like them to have done.
American translators have a strong tradition of removing every stone from the paths of readers and viewers, i.e. they choose the smoothest translation possible. Sometimes even so as to completely erase the characteristics of the original work, if for example it includes elaborate sentences.
It led to a scandal about the translation of Ms. Smillas Feeling for Snow, I know.
If you read the American and the British version, you will see the difference.
Ms. Smilla is one of my favourite books of all time. I checked immediately, and I have the Brit version, it seems. I wonder how the American translation is different?
The original - and the Brit version - lets the language deviate from the norm a little bit at times, hinting at a mysterious connection to snow and some other things, and also, at time it depicts Ms. Smilla as this sometimes extra formel person - keeping a distance because, as I recall, she has had to through her childhood, and living as Inuk in Denmark.
I read the book when it came out, but talked about the translation at university around 8 years ago or so, so I don't recall all of it.
But for example, Smilla looks from either Knippelsbro or Langebro (bridges) towards her home and sees the lights of ambulances and police cars.
Directly translated she says:
"And then, I see the light".
And that has exactly the same hint of religion in Danish as in English. That was too much for the American translator, who chose to write:
"And then, I see a light".
I remember this because it was *so easy* to do it right, and then the translator chose to not rattle any reader with any hints of more than just "plot", which is a super boring way of reading a book and definitely not what Peter Høegh wanted.
Peter Høegh worked together with a translator to re-weirdify the language in the British version, and the American translator got so angry he sued Høegh, or the publisher. And I don't think it was for not getting paid, but because he was angry they "ruined" his translation by unsmoothing it. He didn't win.
But he did manage to not have his name on the edition with the rehøegh'ed language, so as I recall, the translator credited does not, in fact, exist. But it's really a combination of the American version with some English modifier and the author himself.
Oh, I just googled and even the title!!!
The American chose to translate
"Frøken Smillas fornemmelse for sne"
which has a ff sssml ffmll ff sssn sound to it, like sliding on snow with a little resistance, or like if snowflakes actually made a sound when they landed, and also had the formality or slight stiltedness that I talked about before (people don't call unmarried women "Miss/Frøken" in Denmark, hardly ever, today). And "Fornemmelse" is also not a word you'd use very often in a slogan ... I mean, it's four syllables, right? And we DO have the word "sans" = "sense" (not like in "mind" or "common sense", but like in "perception ability", or sixth sense).
The American version is titled
"Smillas Sense of Snow. "
That is a clear attempt at doing something different from what the writer was doing, right?
I see that the Wikipedia page has a link to "A Tale of Two Smillas" (Google doc) Kirsten Malmkjær, Centre for Research in Translation, Middlesex University. You'll have to ask for permission to see it, which I have just done (haven't received an answer yet). https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B3j7_dvfTDHRaDg2N21xb0tMTUk/edit
I am pretty sure that the version I read was the American translation! I had no idea that I was getting an inferior one. I loved his book Borderliners but now I wonder whether I understood anything!
I think it's pretty normal to only understand half of what he is writing, but I also think that the poetry of the language as well of the mysterious ambiguity of the world around Ms. Smilla should be mirrored in the language as far as possible, and that it is important for the reader, even if she doesn't think "Oooh la la, what complicated and onomatopoetic alliterations!"
I mean, some of it will be perceived unconsciously, and also, the reader should have the chance to perceive it consciously too, if they are close-reading it.
I had read "David Copperfield" five times at least through the years before using some passages for a couple of university assignments, and oh, girl, did they open up even more when I sat there, concentrated on details.
I loved them already, but when I read the latest Danish translation and was so disappointed with the lack of energy in one of my favourite passages (David gets drunk) I noticed how each paragraph started with an action, an estrangement from that action, and then a further and further removed description of himself, from
"... finding suddenly, that somebody was in the middle of a song."
and
"Somebody was smoking. We were all smoking. I was smoking, ..."
through
" ... somebody fell, and rolled down. Somebody else said it was Copperfield, ..."
to (about the Opera House:
"The whole building looked to me as if it were learning to swim; it conducted itself in such an unaccountable manner, when I tried to steady it."
The translator had varied the "somebody" introductions, and the piece, though of course still funny, had lost it's accelerating dizzying rhythm.
***
What I'm saying is that I had always loved that piece, but I did notice that the Danish translation was lacking, and only then did I notice the fine detail in the original; but it had tickled me all the same, also years before.
An aside: I love to pick up the onomatopoeia in Korean when I'm watching dramas. The translations are so pedestrian. At least twice I have paused the stream and backed up to make sure I heard what I thought I did.
I noticed a new one recently, but I forgot to write it down, so I will have to pull up the OG: there is some expression that everyone says, "ha ha ho ho" in the middle of--like, "you were doing ha ha ho ho" and I have no idea what is going on there. Is that a word? If it is, can I marry it? I've seen it translated, "you were having fun."
I think mayyyybe I can hear an echo of that for my inner ear - that I have heard that said ... someone who was bitter and so was parodying the ha ha ho ho'ing extra clearly, with and edge of sobbing for having been either left out or the target of the joke, or both.
I haven't gotten so far to put that sound in my pocket, though. But because of you, next time I will *actually* notice.
When Life Gives you Tangerines
I still don't get the title of the show. and the first drop of 4 episodes had a bit too much screaming women. Those are my only gripes.
Besides that, you are right, this show is magical in the way it portrays universal emotion. Everything is so intense that I feel like I need a cigarette after each episode despite the fact that I don't smoke.
The last 4 episodes just dropped and the only thing on my mind is to get out of work, rush home, hug my wife and kids and press play.
Also, I'm a little bit surprised at the lack of attention this show is getting on DB. It's on track to be as impactful as My Ajusshi. I didn't think IU would ever be able to top her performance in My Ajusshi and yet she has found a another level.
I'm watching, but slowly, and I think a lot of other Beanies are watching at their own paces too. That's always the trouble with Netflix drops - it's hard to keep up with everything else and find time to watch a group of episodes. I'm glad they are experimenting with four drops instead of one, but I'm still having trouble watching in time to engage with the recaps on here, which might explain the lower engagement.
I've been holding off on TANGERINES until it was fully loaded. I believe I've only ever seen IU in one other drama besides currently watching MOON LOVERS. I like WWW comments on this show, it sounds like it has vision. Love that, even when it doesn't always translate perfectly.
I have been waiting for it to be completely out before watching. And also, gearing myself up for the expected trauma - so making sure I have open time to binge watch. The only down side to this is not being in on the commenting as it goes along.
There have been a few news items about how they translated the title, since the title in Korean was pretty hard to translate. https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/art/2025/03/398_394683.html
But it makes me sad that I can't get every nuance, sometimes.
It must be such an absorbing job! I don't think I have enough command of any second language to be able to do it, but I would love to do it. Have you done it? Fan translations?
I have translated a bit professionally, but apart from that, you could call my translation of the quote from "Deficit" a fan translation. I also translated a song from a youtuber I like, but I didn't like that in months she didn't get round to approving it, and in the meantime Youtube deleted all unofficial subtitle tracks, and I can see how anyone could just claim that someone said whatever, but having gone through a whole song and making it rhyme it was a bit disappointing, to put it mildly.
It’s kinda hard to spazz without the fanwall. Before this we could just post as we watch, but the recaps for Tangerines, it’s 4 episodes per drop so it’s like you have to wait to complete a set before reading/commenting. And personally, i’m almost always late to the weekly threads and we know days old articles dont get noticed as much (esp w the disapperance of recent comments section) so I’m less inclined to write anything then.
I’m waiting for it fully finish before I decide if I’m in the mood for it, we’ll see.
As for the English title of the drama— I had a hunch about it taking a note/making a hint to the Chinese proverb (I’m a “CBC”— Canadian born Chinese), and it actually warms my heart to know that it really is what the the title hints at. For once, Netflix did it right: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_Life_Gives_You_Tangerines
I figured the title is a play on the phrase "when life gives you lemons..." (which is usually used when talking about resilience and perservence which is a trait of the characters)
And since Jeju is apparently known for tangerines, that was used instead.
It's been almost a month since the fanwall was deleted. Would it be possible to add a button for a page with the new comments? Typing "comments" in the address isn't really practical.
Fwiw. I thought ‘Fan Space’ accomplished what it set out to do and now that is gone. O.T and FS are somewhat similar but Squee is a different kettle of fish.
I have been praising Lee Jun Young's acting and range so much for the past 2 years that it made me feel proud that he is gaining recognition for his acting!
Hi Beanies! My update of this week's hauntings. Of course I'm still watching the Tangerines and Potatoes shows (and loving them), but I fell victim to my male hormones and binged Netflix's Weak Hero. I won't sugar-coat it, the show is a total overload of testosterone, so beware if you give it a try. Nevertheless, it has a couple of twists on the "school bullies" trope, which I find interesting.
I watched that when it was streaming on Viki. I loved it! I didn't realize when I was watching that the lead actor was an idol famous for being goofily cute and babyish. In the show he is so grim! All three of the lead actors showed a lot of range and emotion.
Thanks Isa for Reset, I thought it was great. Probably the most korean-like cdrama I have watched. Loved it!
Fake it until you make it was cute, they did have chemistry but I had to ff all the work scenes and her sister stories to make it through.
Both are very good shows, but totally different!
I enjoyed them a lot. I always recommend Reset to people who have never watched a c-drama because it's not too long and it's very hooking.
TBH, I feel like there's too much attention to bullying. Even if the story shames bullying in the end, it's just pervasive -- everywhere. I know it's a convenient "trope" but I don't want to support that.
Re Tangerines: never thought Geum Myeong n Chung Seop could make such an adorable couple! Ahhh to see that once familiar dimples of Seon Ho again was so nice.
Tangerines
It’s now 2:40 am and I just finished. I thought I would finish over the weekend, but it was impossible to stop. I’m physically shaking and it’s hard to breathe.
Hand over the Daesang award 🥇 to this show right now.
I have many words and many thoughts about this one in a million show, but I really need to sleep now.
I want to watch a record number of Kdramas this year just so that I can collect the beans to give them ALL to Tangerines.
Goodnight
Su-ah and her had a short conversation about Hae-song and his public confession. The P.E. teacher practically said what beanies said on the recaps about it 😂
Beanies, I need your help! I had to do a free trial of Kocowa because I was too busy to catch ep 11 of Undercover High School during its free period, so now I have 14 days to watch whatever I can before I have to pay for another subscription. I’m debating between My Perfect Stranger and Taxi Driver 2. They are pretty different, I know, but I can’t decide what I’m in the mood for! Which would you choose? Or something else?
Completed
When Life gives you Tangerine: Bittersweet and hopeful, with IU delivering a wonderful performance as both a young mother and a modern young woman.
Because of Love: Wallace Chung and Li Xiao Ran deliver an electrifying performance filled with chemistry, but still left scratching as to why the show insists on their romantic reunion when the ML seems to not have had much emotional growth.
Ongoing:
Wheel of Time: Great world-building and an interesting heroes journey. Characters are still annoying AF but that's part of the journey I guess.
Dropped:
Potato Lab: Hard to keep watching with a FL smitten with a man very different from her in terms of outlook/power without taking the time to understand exactly what she's getting herself into, or the show hinting at the fallout from this. Also, not enough Potato shenanigans.
The Art of Negotiation: Having a hard time engaging with this, and the yappy intern is not making things easier.
If you add this type of comment to the What We’re Watching page you will probably have more beanies see it. Beanies check that page over the weekend and into the new week to collect titles for future watches based on the feedback from multiple beanies.
Quite a good shout out for THE MATCH, and its stars. Historically, Hollywood embraces redemption and is extraordinarily forgiving of star's missteps (especially youthful performers).
Also, this story broke through today in Variety, also under "Global/Asia":
Variety generally writes balanced accounts of entertainment news, and is widely read (the magazine was founded in 1905). However, that photo ... is a statement in itself (gotta say).
There’s a k-ost concert coming my way n i’m thinking of going. But i don’t know anyone in real life who likes korean osts..so now i’m moaning the fact that i only have 2 friends like Choi Ung in OBS 🥲
also no fanwall sucks since we still have to hunt for replies to comments now. But the site does seem to run faster now..
#stillnotoverthefanwalldemise
![[Drama Chat] Fastest ship you boarded + why](https://d263ao8qih4miy.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/ResidentPlaybook1-2_09A.jpg)
![[Rate and Review] Way Back Love](https://d263ao8qih4miy.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2025/03/WayBackLove_reviewb.jpg)
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1 welh
March 28, 2025 at 5:02 AM
From what I have read and seen on variety/talk shows, actor Daniel Choi seems like a nice, easygoing guy. Choi has laid back acting style which mirrors his personality. He is known for doing favors for friends, usually guest cameos in their shows. On a variety show, Choi recently said when he was in Busan to visit his friend, Kang Eun Tak, he was cast in Kang’s indie movie, SUNNY DAY, his first movie role in 9 years. No big deal, right? I guess he is not one to chase bigger roles. Prior to this year, he had not starred in a drama since 2022. I wondered why, so I looked up his resume to learn he has been hosting a KBS FM radio show since 2013 and doing variety/reality shows. Maybe this is a trend, as actress Park Ha Sun has been a radio host for the past several years. Career diversification is a good hedge against an entertainment production recession. This review was instigated by the news Choi would be joining RUNNING MAN as a “rental” member.
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Clios Servant
March 28, 2025 at 5:34 AM
I love Radio! RADIO ROMANCE (2019) is one of my top so-called "guilty pleasures" and the story's message that radio reaches into so many lives, in a healthy way, is spot on.
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Midnight
March 28, 2025 at 10:37 AM
I haven't watched Radio Romance, but I LOVE Bubblegum and all the parts about radio integrated into the story.
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2 Clios Servant
March 28, 2025 at 5:37 AM
Wildfires in South Korea:
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/26/world/asia/south-korea-wildfires.html
Can anyone share if any kdramas of note were filmed at this site?
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Clios Servant
March 28, 2025 at 6:03 AM
Sorry I meant specifically Andong Hahoe Folk Village historic site.
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bong-soo
March 28, 2025 at 6:47 AM
Terrible news coming out of South Korea about the fires.
Re your question. In the koreandramaland.com could have answered that question but unfortunately appears currently not available.
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mugyuljoie is preciousss
March 28, 2025 at 7:25 AM
I think it was mentioned as a place Mr. Sunshine used for a few scenes.
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mugyuljoie is preciousss
March 28, 2025 at 5:05 PM
Most of the drama lists I found interchanged the Korean Folk Village (located much closer to Seoul and often used for historical dramas) with this one so I don't trust the lists. Hopefully koreandramaland will return and you can search there.
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Nessa🌹
March 28, 2025 at 9:02 PM
As of today, the biggerwildfires have now been contained—thank goodness— according to my friend who’s currently living in Korea (her husband is in the U.S. army currently deployed there). Now the struggle is trying to contain the smaller fires, as it’s been “hella dry and windy” (in the words of my friend’s message she sent me this afternoon when I was checking in on her)
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3 TurtuallySarcastic
March 28, 2025 at 5:46 AM
Happy weekend Beanies and keep Beaning On!
March has been one work challenge after the other and it took its toll on my mental health last week. I got flashbacks to my pre-burnout period years ago and was sleeping badly, so a small break from everything was necessary.
Fortunately, I knew that it was temporary and the bad week merely the last straw. Things could be no more different this week! Ever since I finished the last obstacle Wednesday noon, I am on leave and my hours have been filled with reading books, Dramabeans and watching episodes, movies and writing Dramabeans posts beforehand to be able to publish on time. Cherry on top? Always followed by a good night’s sleep.😴
April might get busy as well, so the recharge is necessary. Besides, I need to empty my schedule for the next batch!😆
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DK-Drama ❤️🎄 Giffing n Space Cadetting 👼🏻🌟
March 28, 2025 at 8:55 AM
I am glad to hear you have time to restitute now. Hugs.
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4 cat-cric-kat
March 28, 2025 at 6:18 AM
Weather - hot hot - huge rain or not.
sakura - a bit earlier - ahh 1st week april.
warm nights - hot days - summer looking decant - oh no.
spring heat is this much - summer heat hah STorms
i'm ready to enjoy it all.
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cat-cric-kat
March 28, 2025 at 6:25 AM
no fan - no ac - oh comeon - even i can't handle it.
more rain - can help but then 90% humidity - oh no no.
BUY - electronic stocks - specially that deal with fan, AC.
no fruits for 31 months - need fibre - 2025 - eat as much as u can
salt - no salt no iodine for months - highly dangerous.
But, here i'm - no more foolishness - or st. peter is waiting.
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cat-cric-kat
March 28, 2025 at 6:39 AM
POLITICS - the most entertaining n exciting text podcast that only i've kept active. all praises r mine. self-praise d most realistic thing u can do knowing fully well d depth of it.
i said need more inflation - yeah increase but as much making u sweat. money opens every path - money more or lack of it brings change - most imporant - social change.
u r in pinch - now u care.
chaos - not much - society needs this churning.
Erdo boy n neta boy - both hv played all cards - now whether they can escape this storm? they mostly can - phony churning doesn't work.
Canada - urgently needs d churning to clean d system.
america - as said before - d +ve is 2032 - no churning from obse people - no cleaning.
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5 Gikata
March 28, 2025 at 7:12 AM
Damn, yall are FAST!^^
Happy Friday, Beanies! I've been sick for multiple reasons this entire week and generally drained, so there won't be much music tonight, sorry. I'll make up for it next week... probably...
First, we finally got an official cut of LYN performing “Only wish” on DragonTV's TV Drama Quality Festival – I will never properly warm up to this track, I suppose, but he sounded and looked great:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3Yxv8QtEmI
Official fancam for clearer sound:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uzao7Lf7ETE
Acceptance speech feat translation – you can't see it very clearly, but he was totally shining with pride (extra cute since a few days prior during livestream he was all “I hope I'll get it!” and then he did!):
https://x.com/fandoestrans/status/1902361119932698857
I've also went to watch an entire Hi6 episode I talked about 2 weeks ago (with Vietnamese to English autosubs – quite a trip even for me, but surprisingly readable, 100% recommend if you wanna laugh), as well as few others, and now I'm cringing so hard at what a hopeless ladies man our guy is, ewww))) You know this kind of dude who's always oh-so-nice and caring to girls while perfectly willing to sell his bros for a cornchip if you give him the chance? That's him))) Not that he ever made a big secret out of this trait/preference of his, but it's one thing to see him softly bossing around hordes of female fans, and quite different to watch it in a lesser, more personal scale. No wonder his male classmates years ago were out for his blood, he's SO shamelessly annoying about the whole thing^^ Entire episode if you wanna see with your own eyes what I'm rambling here about:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLaL9eQ6HQw
Trash-talking the boy aside – that's my love language, Ning-ge, don't misunderstand! - that particular episode also gave us a brilliant moment of Yuning nearly failing to recognize his own song during a game. Guess that can happen when you release so many of them regularly, but still, he was right to be embarrassed. The entire segment, including “Ask heaven” (WORD OF HONOR OST), “Love the country, but love the beauty more” (guys, why I recognized this melody before yall did? it's YOUR cultural heritage!) and all the hilarious thinking process behind the two, performed with orchestra famous for costume drama OSTs for a maximum emphasis:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgGZKB-6Iag
And an old cover that popped up in my recommendations at the last minute – Daniel Chan's “The heart already knows”. Not Yuning's best sound, not sure what went wrong here – too hard to sing or maybe he was sick...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuUnldaI-xs
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Gikata
March 28, 2025 at 7:16 AM
Bonuses: more photos from DragonTV gala – I like this batch better, esp blue lightning (so atmospheric!) and poses in white outfit (even the wall gets sexy kabedon, when will be my turn?). Scroll the thread down:
https://x.com/LiuYuning_ID/status/1905558077753229418
And vlog of making it – BGM is, as always, on point and that light sphere in his hands is simply magical, plus the little smirk in the end:
https://x.com/LiuYuning_ID/status/1905577916257501619
After fans complaining of not getting much footage from him lately – and his absolutely fiery “you won't get more, I HATE being filmed” rejection rant as result – the tsundere gege showed mercy and shared another vlog of him goofing around while dubbing ADWAD. Enjoy the silly goose's bare face and bird's nest of unstyled hair, among other things)))
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBxxPI0eL44
Btw, yesterday was babygirl Daimi's 5th Birthday! Ever so caring dad even got her a cake (with candle AND kisses, he knows how to do it for sure), awww)))
https://x.com/Bigsislilred/status/1905148413295091756
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Gikata
March 28, 2025 at 7:16 AM
@kiara, @jillian, @zindigo, @isagc, @wonhwa, @seeker, @mochakat9, @wishfultoki, @cliosservant1846
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Clios Servant
March 28, 2025 at 10:38 AM
Register's too low on Only Wish, and it's a forgettable song, it's not just LYN.
They are doing a better and better job of styling with LYN, especially the hair. And Daimi, such a little sweetie!
Get better, @gikata -- park it, as my mother would say.
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Gikata
March 28, 2025 at 8:17 PM
I was mostly flabbergasted at how loud back vocals in TV cut sounded - what for? It's a very intimate, inner monologue type of song, not a grand church choir material! And he doesn't need this much extra help either, as we can clearly hear in studio fancam. Oh well, I guess it's not a primary music event, so that was the best their sound editors could deliver.
Thanks, I'm working on it.
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Clios Servant
March 29, 2025 at 3:00 AM
In the doldrums with Melody Journey. That music director can write his/her ticket. Any inkling of another season?
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Gikata
March 29, 2025 at 5:46 AM
Indeed, that would've done wonders.
Sequel is supposedly in works, but that's about it for now.
Isa is always time travelling
March 28, 2025 at 3:47 PM
I loved this performance of Only wish. (Btw, I liked that song so much that I never skipped the ending credits. I don't know how to explain it, but there's something very soothing in that theme).
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Gikata
March 28, 2025 at 8:04 PM
It DOES sound soothing, but I cannot unsee lyrics no matter how I try, it always makes me angry. Never skipped outro either, but simply out of respect (esp after Youku did him dirty and put someone else's version in first few episodes initially).
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🌸 Seeker 🌸
April 9, 2025 at 9:16 AM
Thank you Gikata. The Hi6 episode is indeed bucket loads of fun. The dancing, especially his flexible wrists at around 12.30 m mark made me awed. 👌
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6 9TailedVixen Loves Hanging Upside Down
March 28, 2025 at 7:16 AM
NOTES FROM 9TAILEDVIXEN'S FINAL WEEK OF MARCH 2025:
(A) LIFE NOTES
It's now the final stretch of Women's History Month and my nonprofit is almost at the finish line with wrapping up our campaign for the month. And I am looking forward to a slightly less insane work schedule over the next couple of months. Still insane but slightly less so.
Meanwhile, I astonished my Thursday Aerial Yoga teacher by climbing the silks and stretching out into my first pose (a mid-air split) like a boss. She had been following my progress over the past year or so and is very impressed at how far I've come.
In more amusing news - ARMYs across the world are going bananas because J-Hope is doing all sorts of sexy moves during his concert tour and lives LOL! My ARMY friend who attended one of his recent concerts said ovaries were exploding everywhere:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bX9FMoQ9zDs
If this is what happens when just one BTS member is back on stage, who knows what would happen when the entire band gets back together again this summer. I think we might be seeing ARMYs fainting across the world.
(B) THIS WEEK IN KOREAN WOMEN'S NEWS
1. South Korean mayor sparks outrage by blaming female employees for wildfire woes
A mayor in South Korea has sparked outrage by blaming female employees for difficulties in suppressing devastating wildfires that have plagued the country.
The remark was made by Kim Doo-gyeom, mayor of Ulsan in southeastern Korea, during a wildfire briefing in the city on Tuesday.
“There are limitations on the number of public officials we can mobilise when a wildfire breaks out in the region,” he said as quoted by The Korea Herald. “And nowadays, there are many female employees, so it is not easy to send them into rugged mountain areas.”
https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/health-environment/article/3304245/south-korean-mayor-sparks-outrage-blaming-female-employees-wildfire-woes
2. Korean men more willing to become parents, while women's views hold steady, survey shows
Korean men have grown to be slightly more willing to become parents while women have not, a report showed.
According to the 2024 Seoul Family Report published by the Seoul Family Center, more women than men believe "Korean society is not conducive to raising children."
"It seems that the traditional gender role expectation that women are in charge of child care is projected," the report stated, "The background of women not wanting to become parents is the burden of becoming main caregivers and that Korean society that is not parent-friendly."
https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2025/03/113_394754.html
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7 redfox
March 28, 2025 at 7:16 AM
Hi
low week on drama
miss an interesting variety show
Film crew coming from korea next week, I dont quite understand their plan. It ´s wolves and nightclubs so far. what kind of documentary is this.
this week in the library:
is internet banking installed on your computers and does it open automatically when I sit down?
are you open 10-17 during day or during night?
I don´t remember the name or author of the book or what it was about but it was on a shelf.
does your internet have a translation?
can I get that book about horses but with a fox on the cover?
*hand raised* Me: yes? Patron: could you bring me a coffee? (what am I a secretary?)
what is the password for this book?
No I dont have 2 minutes to "read my debt off" (stands 11 minutes in line to pay debt) oh well.
someone wrote and asked for "pangeautomaat" (Bucket machine) instead of Pangaautomaat (ATM)
I have a dilemma though. I seriously do not like a certain colleague who kind of pries and is annoyingly submissive. like they try to be good but it is to the point it is icky.
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DK-Drama ❤️🎄 Giffing n Space Cadetting 👼🏻🌟
March 28, 2025 at 9:07 AM
"Could you bring me a cup of coffee?"
😂🤣😂🤣
I was just skimming the text so went back to see if it was a superior at a meeting or a visiting author at an event.
But it was just someone using the library!
That's so offensive and so funny! Preposterous!
I was trying to think of comebacks, like asking them to do some random favour back. "Yes, if you will knit me this sweater." or "Yes, If you will do my shopping, I can make you a cup in the meantime".
Or say there's a coffee machine at the library, then saying "Yes, that'll be [coffee prize + 30$ ]."
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redfox
March 28, 2025 at 9:22 AM
those are good ones, I´ll save these comebacks. or I could say we dont grow coffee trees in Estonia
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bbstl 🧹
March 28, 2025 at 9:26 AM
HA thank you for the laughs at the end of a bleak week. Customer Service is always challenging! 🤪 And you are also expected to be psychic !
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parkchuna 🍉
March 28, 2025 at 5:36 PM
Please say you’re open 10-17 during night. It’d serve them right to show up in the dark n see the library is closed.
On a side note, i’m appalled that there are people who actually don’t know military time. I thought it’s basic general knowledge.
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8 Britney
March 28, 2025 at 7:54 AM
I don't understand this but I saw it on Lee Hyeri's youtube show. It's called Hyundai age? Has anyone heard of this?
https://youtube.com/shorts/vJURR4bZhC8?si=o47k2kXjEk7NmV6X
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welh
March 28, 2025 at 9:40 AM
Koreans culture and age is strange at times. Traditional Korean age had a child at birth being born 1 year old. Then, on January 1st, everyone had another year added to their age. A child born December 31st would be 2 years old on January 1st. South Korea recently changed this custom to follow international age.
There were several possible explanations for this old age counting custom: one, Koreans strict honorifics towards elders was simplified by this method. Today, people still use the year of birth to determine whether honorifics are needed in speech.
There also may have been a belief that a child at birth was one year old (life begins at birth). It also could lessen the parental stigma of a unhealthy baby dying at birth. When Korea was very poor and infant mortality rates were high, parents did not register their children until 6 months or more after birth.
Hyundai means "modernization" so I think this must be a trendy Millennial thing to keep their youth. Or it could be a fashion statement that Koreans age better so this a comparative age.
I have not heard about this until your post.
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Gikata
March 28, 2025 at 8:31 PM
I always thought an extra year comes from Koreans counting person's age since conception and not birth, and with two calendars - modern Solar and traditional Lunar-Solar (correct me if I'm wrong here, but purely Lunar one is a thing in different part of world, not Eastern Asia?) one - things got muddled even more.
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welh
March 29, 2025 at 4:50 AM
That is correct, life begins at conception. My typo.
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9 DK-Drama ❤️🎄 Giffing n Space Cadetting 👼🏻🌟
March 28, 2025 at 8:20 AM
Potato Lab: "Mi-kyeong Has No Function"
The way Mi-kyeong is studied at work and dismissed i a lot like how countless women have seen their work described as nothing.
I am reading Emma Holten’s book “Deficit; How Feminist Economics Can Change Our World” (a somewhat fanfaric translation of the Danish title: ”Underskud: Om værdien af omsorg” ("Deficit: On the Value of Care").
Apart from just saying: ”Yes! I always wanted to say that, but I didn’t have the words!” (Nor the historical knowledge) , … apart from that, there was this passage that made me think ”Potato Lab!”
The book is translated into English, but I am sitting with the Danish version, so this is my translation. I hope I have gotten the financial terms right.
You could more or less insert Kim Mi-kyeong everywhere the text says ”Mia”.
So this woman, Mia, has a job that she likes and is really good at. But her company is bought, and now she suddenly has to register every minute of everything that she does, specifying her job to atoms.
Quote:
“Frederick Winslow Taylor in the 1910s took the mechanism of economics to a new level and set out to structure workplaces, so they would function more like a well-oiled clockwork. He called it Scientific Management." (p. 191)
In the car factory, skilled welders were hard to just substitute, and therefore were strong in negotiations for better wages, safety, and hours. By splitting up their work into tiny parts, unskilled workers could quickly learn their small part. Three unskilled workers had way less negotiation power than one skilled.
“It was a similar analysis that the private equity firm had made on Mia’s workplace. And in that analysis, Mia had stood out as a worryingly skilled welder. Not because she was complaining, but because her role was porous* and social. When at work she helped a bit with one project of shared ideas at the After Work Friday Bar with colleagues from a completely different department, it was no longer clear what part of value creation in the company that came from Mia, and which one came from others. That made her the most dangerous an employee can be in a modern workplace; immeasurable and thus irreplaceable..
If she asked for higher wages or decided to have a new job, the equity firm would have a hard time finding a new Mia, because they didn’t know exactly where her talent and skills were at play.
Therefore, she had to be registered and mechanised. They needed to know what she was doing, so if a new Mia was hired, the transition would be easy.
Of course, this took away Mia’s bargaining power – as well as her job satisfaction**.” (p. 192)
*Porous: Can this word be used this way in English? Combining skills in intuitive ways, breathable, firm and fragile at once. Merriam-Webster does not register this meaning, but one of their examples explains time as porous, so …
**Job...
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DK-Drama ❤️🎄 Giffing n Space Cadetting 👼🏻🌟
March 28, 2025 at 8:21 AM
**Job satisfaction in the original Danish: “Arbejdsglæde”: Work Joy. A stronger word than “job satisfaction”, but a common word in Denmark, and precise for how Mia used to feel about her work. We have job satisfaction, too, “jobtilfredsstillelse”, but Work Joy is stronger, and not just a word; it’s an actual thing, and Mi-kyeong has it. Or had it. And she was spreading it, too.)
https://www.emmaholten.com/
https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/deficit-emma-holten/1146514697
My dear Taguettes. I am tagging you again, even with no gifs (I always link to them at least in my what we're watching). But I want to keep in contact, that's why. If you don't like to be tagged for written comments, tell me.
@claire2009 @minniegupta1 @midnight @sonai @koalatown @nefret @isagc @bebeswtz @skiee @23new2kdrama @jls943 @amany @mazarin @redfox @lostpanda
@seeker (Cera) @Reply1988 @unaspirated @coffeprince4eva (RenOlshi) @DncingEmma @lapislazulii @sonai @Gikata @vienibenmio
@marysadanaga @sp2022 @darkcc @GhostofTim @zindigo
And
Danish Nerdiness;
@enriquequierecagar @turtuallySarcastic
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empressgirl
March 29, 2025 at 2:58 AM
thanks for this book recommendation!
I will write to my local libraries to get them to order copies
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DK-Drama ❤️🎄 Giffing n Space Cadetting 👼🏻🌟
March 29, 2025 at 5:10 AM
That's so cool!
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too_much_tv
March 28, 2025 at 8:25 AM
Oh no, you got cut off! I like that usage for porous.
It's so interesting whenever I see references to Taylorism. I grew up reading Cheaper By the Dozen, and it kind of blew my mind when I read history books as an adult in which the Galbraiths (who were Taylorists, I shouldn't leave out) are the villains.
I'm going to request the Holten book at the library now.
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DK-Drama ❤️🎄 Giffing n Space Cadetting 👼🏻🌟
March 28, 2025 at 8:33 AM
I have written the last bit, too but it is awaiting moderation because there are some links in it.
I am so glad you will order that book! I only came out on the 6th of March so they may not have it yet. But then you will be at the top of the line, when they get it!
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DK-Drama ❤️🎄 Giffing n Space Cadetting 👼🏻🌟
March 28, 2025 at 8:47 AM
Bother! While we're waiting, here is the text, without links and tags, of the last few sentences:
**Job satisfaction in the original Danish: “Arbejdsglæde”: Work Joy. A stronger word than “job satisfaction”, but a common word in Denmark, and precise for how Mia used to feel about her work. We have job satisfaction, too, “jobtilfredsstillelse”, but Work Joy is stronger, and not just a word; it’s an actual thing, and Mi-kyeong has it. Or had it. And she was spreading it, too.)
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hacja
March 28, 2025 at 10:39 AM
@too_much_tv. It just so happened that you made the mistake of straying into a subject I taught about for years as a historian of twentieth century U.S., so of course, I'm compelled to comment!
Taylor and to a much lesser degree Frank Gilbreth (who began his career under Taylor) deserve some villainizing, because they were all about workplace efficiency as worker control. Taylor in particular was so arrogant that when working as a consultant, he would ignore the extensive hands-on knowledge and experience of machinists and other manual workers, substituting abstract "time-motion" studies that ignored how people work. Frank Gilbreth began in a similar pseudo-scientific fashion, breaking up movements in the tiniest motions, as if that would somehow produce a better workplace.
Lilian, however, was trained as a psychologist, (in fact, she not only had a Ph.D. from Brown; she had actually previously earned a PH.D. from my alma mater, University of California, but was not awarded it because she moved out of state.) When she and Frank formed their firm, the emphasis was much more on worker motivation and satisfaction. This was still a top down way of defining work, so not necessarily worker-friendly, but it was a much more effective and humane way of thinking about the workplace, and does not deserve the ignominy associated with Taylor.
In fact Lilian deserves a lot of positive recognition, since it is now clear she was responsible for a lot of the work credited to her husband, which she did while she was raising her 11 children. Just an amazing woman. Cheaper by the Dozen, while a fun movie, totally devalues her achievements, focusing on Frank.
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DK-Drama ❤️🎄 Giffing n Space Cadetting 👼🏻🌟
March 28, 2025 at 12:02 PM
Thank you! What a lot of knowledge!
Emma Holten's book is about more than one kind of unacknowledged value; raising eleven children (after having grown them in one's body and given birth to them!) would certainly be part of what she talks about.
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too_much_tv
March 29, 2025 at 5:29 PM
Piecework was one of the key reasons for the formation of the International Ladies Garment Workers Union in the US. It's basically a way to deprive people of a wage. We mostly remember the Triangle Shirtwaist Fire of 1909 because it was so dramatic, but the union was also in response to piecework.
Today those are the people who organize hotel cleaners. Considering all the things that we are up against in the world, the idea of a union for people who clean in hotels is so amazing.
But I also didn't expect, from what I learned about unions as a kid, how many times they would save me as an adjunct college teacher.
DK-Drama ❤️🎄 Giffing n Space Cadetting 👼🏻🌟
March 30, 2025 at 3:07 AM
What did you learn, that you were surprised for the union to be a great help?
To me, unions is one of the few ways to have a chance of making any form of justice and sense, when each employee is up against a corporation.
Sometimes, to express disdain for someone speaking, Danish people say "Did you hear a flea bark?"
Without unions, each employee is a flea barking alone.
too_much_tv
March 28, 2025 at 1:23 PM
Aha! It was Gilbreth! I knew them from the books, and there was a scene where Frank introduces himself to Lilian's family and spells his name all the variant ways. I forgot which one was the real way! I did watch the film, or at least one of them, or a sequel. But I read all the books!
It was Lilian who was painted in a negative light in a book on feminist home design that I read a mere...three decades after it was published! There was a discussion of Lilian Gilbreth as part of the backlash against feminist approaches to home economics.
But I don't agree that the children devalued her achievements in their memoirs. Taylorism was anti-union and anti-worker, but the Gilbreths were loving parents. At least their kids thought so.
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OldLawyer
March 29, 2025 at 10:55 AM
In the 1960s and 1970s the Japanese to some extent gave Taylor a belated comeuppance in the form of "Lean" (aka The Toyota Way) whose fundamental principle was simply that, as my son (who is an Industrial Engineer} always says "the guys on the shop floor know what is really going on": By respecting the knowledge of the regular workers one could actually become more efficient because 'top down' is actually fundamentally inefficient. In effect they turned the whole thing into 'bottom up' when it came to organizing work.
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hacja
March 29, 2025 at 11:17 AM
This is just such a commonsense approach that you wonder why it isn't always practiced--except that we all know those higher up in the hierarchy who are convinced that their position indicates their superior knowledge in all respects.
In fact I'm thinking of one person right now whose stunning arrogance is destroying crucial government functions, and not just the ones eliminated for ideological reasons. I have a nephew who is an engineer for one of his companies, and one component of his job is to figure out how to bypass this CEO's fortunately sporadic but often random directives and make things work, without getting fired.
DK-Drama ❤️🎄 Giffing n Space Cadetting 👼🏻🌟
March 29, 2025 at 3:04 PM
Another reason is of course that the wealth they want to acquire does not consist of the happy smiles of their employees, but in money, money, and money. That means that the purpose of knowing more about the work is to be able to produce more, and prefereably fire someone, too.
The (wo)man on the floor will love to produce more, but even better if it is better quality. They will not enjoy firing their colleagues.
DK-Drama ❤️🎄 Giffing n Space Cadetting 👼🏻🌟
March 29, 2025 at 3:06 PM
Also, if it ruins the body of the one producing more they will not want to do it. A lot of high-producing industry counts on having access to a generous amount of bodies that they can demand the most possible from for a few years and then discard.
DK-Drama ❤️🎄 Giffing n Space Cadetting 👼🏻🌟
March 29, 2025 at 4:09 PM
That last thing may not be Taylor - but I know that they used to find the best sewer were my aunt worked and check her time. From how many pants or whatever she made in an hour they then decided how a reasonable hour's wages could be split in that amount of pants, and the sewers were then paid per pair of pants, resulting in exactly *one* person being able to make a fair living - at least for some years while her body and eyes could still uphold that tempo - and everybody else were just wrecking their bodies trying to live up to her.
Looking in the Danish dictionary I see that sewers are the example they mention, too. But akkordarbejde - "piecework", it seems to be called - can be done in any field if you split up the whole process enough and empty the soul out of that work while decreasing the amount of different movement to be made so as to optimize the wearing out of bodies.
(I am having an angry day, apparently).
Clios Servant
March 28, 2025 at 10:51 AM
Oh wow! The first thing that popped into my head reading this was CHEAPER BY THE DOZEN (1950) with the wonderful Clifton Webb and a superb Myrna Loy.
Oftentimes, I think about those who I would put in a locked room for 3 months and then put THE MAGNIFICENT AMBERSONS (1942) and CHEAPER BY THE DOZEN on a continuous loop.
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hacja
March 28, 2025 at 11:41 AM
I also like the movie Cheaper by the Dozen, although I have to say, The Magnificent Ambersons, with the tremendous Joseph Cotten and Orson Welles as a brilliant director, is a big cut above. I've seen that one 3 times. Continuously for 3 months might be a little much, but it is one of the underrated classics of U.S. cinema.
When I said "Cheaper by the Dozen" as a family memoir devalued Lilian Gilbreth, I didn't mean to devalue Myrna Loy's portrayal of Lilian Gilbreth!
She is one of my favorite actresses of all time. She also was a really admirable person as well!
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Clios Servant
March 28, 2025 at 11:48 AM
I luv luv luv Joseph Cotten, most especially the Joseph Cotten of THE FARMER'S DAUGHTER which is one of my all-time favorite blues killers. And, there is nothing quite like the witty, lovely Myrna Loy.
Lately, I've been considering that 3 months might not be enough.
DK-Drama ❤️🎄 Giffing n Space Cadetting 👼🏻🌟
March 28, 2025 at 12:10 PM
The way you describe Cheaper By the Dozen reminds me of Durrell's "My family and other animals".
I don't know how I would feel about the work of the parents; it is lovely if someone comes and shows you how your work can be done easier and faster.
But it's not fun when someone (esp, that guy, Taylor) comes and demonstrates that your skills doesn't count, that half-assed is good enough to make a profit, that if you thought you had worked and learned so that you were in a position to ask for a fair wage, you can forget it, because three unskilled, easily suppressible workers can do half-assed well enough until they can be substituted by bots.
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too_much_tv
March 28, 2025 at 1:27 PM
In Cheaper By the Dozen, the children recall their father saying, "Find me the guy who is too lazy to scratch himself." (Weird things stuck with me from these books!) He had this idea that the laziest worker was the one who would show the least wasted motion in the work.
Indeed I think the workers are usually the experts on their own work.
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hacja
March 28, 2025 at 11:26 AM
@ceciliedk I am not quite with you in your interpretation Kim Mi-Kyeong, but the problem is the way the writer of Potato Lab has positioned her as a character, not that I'm disagreeing with about the nature of work and how specialization has often been used to attack the value of women's labor in general--or, alternatively, to better exploit women's labor by subdividing it and declaring it "unskilled."
In my opinion, they needed to give My-kyeong some sort of relevant background. If not a scientific degree, at least a hands-on background in agriculture, either, say, because she grew up on a farm, or because she was worked with crops growing up, so that her work knowledge was convincing--instead of just positing that she moved from what (general management? sales analyst? Its unclear what she did) and became invaluable because she was a hard worker and loved potatoes.
First of all, it kind of defies belief in an era of modern agricultural research, where every woman working in the lab above the level of maintenance worker or janitorial staff--even as general manager, say--would have at least a degree in a related field, if not a Ph.D. (which would be more likely.)
Second, at least in the U.S. women did play a significant role in scientific research, as scientists not just as someone competent and hardworking. In the late 19th century, for example, when the USDA was one of the most active government agencies, women played a key role in many scientific studies the agency generated. They were most often women with scientific degrees, who needed an occupational outlet for their expertise, and the USDA was willing to hire them as research "assistants" (although not necessarily credit them in their publications.)
So if the Potato Lab had made Mi-kyeong someone with a science degree who was forced to work elsewhere until she got the Potato opportunity, then she would have my full sympathy.
As it is, if I was to take the show seriously (which I do not!) I would argue the whole lab deserves to be eliminated as a waste of money, because everyone working there with the exception of Mi-kyeong (who is competent, but so what!) is a buffoon, regardless of whether the "maroo" potato is any good or not!
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DK-Drama ❤️🎄 Giffing n Space Cadetting 👼🏻🌟
March 28, 2025 at 12:35 PM
I can see what you mean, that she should have an education.
But also, a lot of times people can become specialists within an area that interests them a lot, especially if they already have a higher education and have learned to choose their sources well and collect knowledge in a practical way. She is probably made unrealistic, and that *can* be a campaign to tell people that they can be adaptable and fit in with a surprising career; I know some are very eager to promote stories of people majoring in history who become PR narrative experts or just salesmen and -women etc.
Whatever the story behind it and the realism of that, she is the only one who actually prioritizes her potato work, and even if she has a hard time defining her job, she is actually the exception to the buffoonery at the lab. I don't think she could do all the work alone, but if she had two or three hard-working interns, she could run the whole thing better than it is run now.
Anyways; the thing that her work was "whatever need to be done at any one time" and she gets fired for that fitted exactly with the way skilled workers with an allround knowledge and a ... work joy ... based on their interest in the company and satisfaction when things were done well ... are made to joy-drainingly describe their own work day in details, and after that treated as valueless and maybe even fired.
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DK-Drama ❤️🎄 Giffing n Space Cadetting 👼🏻🌟
March 28, 2025 at 3:56 PM
Kim Mi-kyeong is childish enough to create ample silliness to laugh at, overreacting again and again, but if we accept her as who she is in the Potato Lab, she is also "too much" or rather, she works for ten, there.
And the draining of meaning from work and substituting coherence with manageableness is happening a lot - it is just very clearly shown here, and I was just reading about it.
As for economic theory and practice, her role as an all-the-things-everywhere-all-the-time worker could just as well have been with a man. I am sure the 1910-welder's described were not women. The majority of the work that goes unnoticed and devalued is housework and childcare. It is so undervalued that economics have concluded that women cost society a whole lot of money and give very little in return; because they only count the money, and if they put any price on house chores at all, it is only what a lowest-possibly-paid worker could have been hired to do.
If they tried to figure out how much you would owe someone to go to work and risk the unpleasant process and the lasting damage to the body from a pregnancy and birth, a the state would not be able to afford births at all.
But the book, as I said, is not only about women. It is also about pretending that men are not missing out when they work full time while their children are babies. Or the welder that we mentioned before, who could have all sorts of different skilled jobs and then lose the position and respect he had and had worked to get; Weaver. Harvester. Typesetter.
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10 too_much_tv
March 28, 2025 at 8:21 AM
I am finally watching When Life Gives You Tangerines. I am way behind the people who are commenting on the recap posts. I just finished Episode 8. I am crying SO MUCH!
It's really magic when the writers--well, when the writers, directors and entire cast, but let's start at the foundation--can combine the particular and local with experiences of universal emotion. The slang diction with the high diction, the poetry with the haggling over fish, the aspiration for learning and the steadfast belief in exerting effort--this is why Korean dramas succeed! Also being unafraid to be sentimental and to have the characters cry is, you know, good. That is, it's a gamble, but you can't do anything without some risk.
Also, the translators doing the subtitles on Netflix must be high. Why would you "translate" a Jeju lullaby into a well-known Southern US lullaby? Do you think the people watching won't understand it's a lullaby? (I'm presuming it was a Jeju one, I wish I had an expert to point out the specific regionalisms for the entire show...)
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DK-Drama ❤️🎄 Giffing n Space Cadetting 👼🏻🌟
March 28, 2025 at 8:44 AM
I am only just beginning. I hesitated because the forecast clearly said lots of "bittersweetness" which I hate. But also, it was clear this was going to be good!
As for translation, it is always a dilemma. It is not completely crazy to translate a lullaby to another lullaby, giving the feeling of well-known comfort to the viewer, but personally, I think I would have chosen to translate the Korean words, like you would like them to have done.
American translators have a strong tradition of removing every stone from the paths of readers and viewers, i.e. they choose the smoothest translation possible. Sometimes even so as to completely erase the characteristics of the original work, if for example it includes elaborate sentences.
It led to a scandal about the translation of Ms. Smillas Feeling for Snow, I know.
If you read the American and the British version, you will see the difference.
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Procrasti-NationFirstCitizen
March 28, 2025 at 8:53 AM
Ms. Smilla is one of my favourite books of all time. I checked immediately, and I have the Brit version, it seems. I wonder how the American translation is different?
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DK-Drama ❤️🎄 Giffing n Space Cadetting 👼🏻🌟
March 28, 2025 at 9:20 AM
The original - and the Brit version - lets the language deviate from the norm a little bit at times, hinting at a mysterious connection to snow and some other things, and also, at time it depicts Ms. Smilla as this sometimes extra formel person - keeping a distance because, as I recall, she has had to through her childhood, and living as Inuk in Denmark.
I read the book when it came out, but talked about the translation at university around 8 years ago or so, so I don't recall all of it.
But for example, Smilla looks from either Knippelsbro or Langebro (bridges) towards her home and sees the lights of ambulances and police cars.
Directly translated she says:
"And then, I see the light".
And that has exactly the same hint of religion in Danish as in English. That was too much for the American translator, who chose to write:
"And then, I see a light".
I remember this because it was *so easy* to do it right, and then the translator chose to not rattle any reader with any hints of more than just "plot", which is a super boring way of reading a book and definitely not what Peter Høegh wanted.
Peter Høegh worked together with a translator to re-weirdify the language in the British version, and the American translator got so angry he sued Høegh, or the publisher. And I don't think it was for not getting paid, but because he was angry they "ruined" his translation by unsmoothing it. He didn't win.
But he did manage to not have his name on the edition with the rehøegh'ed language, so as I recall, the translator credited does not, in fact, exist. But it's really a combination of the American version with some English modifier and the author himself.
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DK-Drama ❤️🎄 Giffing n Space Cadetting 👼🏻🌟
March 28, 2025 at 9:20 AM
Oh, I def. should tag the Danish Nerds here: @enriquequierecagar @turtuallySarcastic
DK-Drama ❤️🎄 Giffing n Space Cadetting 👼🏻🌟
March 28, 2025 at 9:33 AM
Oh, I just googled and even the title!!!
The American chose to translate
"Frøken Smillas fornemmelse for sne"
which has a ff sssml ffmll ff sssn sound to it, like sliding on snow with a little resistance, or like if snowflakes actually made a sound when they landed, and also had the formality or slight stiltedness that I talked about before (people don't call unmarried women "Miss/Frøken" in Denmark, hardly ever, today). And "Fornemmelse" is also not a word you'd use very often in a slogan ... I mean, it's four syllables, right? And we DO have the word "sans" = "sense" (not like in "mind" or "common sense", but like in "perception ability", or sixth sense).
The American version is titled
"Smillas Sense of Snow. "
That is a clear attempt at doing something different from what the writer was doing, right?
DK-Drama ❤️🎄 Giffing n Space Cadetting 👼🏻🌟
March 28, 2025 at 9:40 AM
I see that the Wikipedia page has a link to "A Tale of Two Smillas" (Google doc) Kirsten Malmkjær, Centre for Research in Translation, Middlesex University. You'll have to ask for permission to see it, which I have just done (haven't received an answer yet).
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B3j7_dvfTDHRaDg2N21xb0tMTUk/edit
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too_much_tv
March 28, 2025 at 1:30 PM
I am pretty sure that the version I read was the American translation! I had no idea that I was getting an inferior one. I loved his book Borderliners but now I wonder whether I understood anything!
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DK-Drama ❤️🎄 Giffing n Space Cadetting 👼🏻🌟
March 28, 2025 at 1:48 PM
I think it's pretty normal to only understand half of what he is writing, but I also think that the poetry of the language as well of the mysterious ambiguity of the world around Ms. Smilla should be mirrored in the language as far as possible, and that it is important for the reader, even if she doesn't think "Oooh la la, what complicated and onomatopoetic alliterations!"
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DK-Drama ❤️🎄 Giffing n Space Cadetting 👼🏻🌟
March 28, 2025 at 5:20 PM
I mean, some of it will be perceived unconsciously, and also, the reader should have the chance to perceive it consciously too, if they are close-reading it.
I had read "David Copperfield" five times at least through the years before using some passages for a couple of university assignments, and oh, girl, did they open up even more when I sat there, concentrated on details.
I loved them already, but when I read the latest Danish translation and was so disappointed with the lack of energy in one of my favourite passages (David gets drunk) I noticed how each paragraph started with an action, an estrangement from that action, and then a further and further removed description of himself, from
"... finding suddenly, that somebody was in the middle of a song."
and
"Somebody was smoking. We were all smoking. I was smoking, ..."
through
" ... somebody fell, and rolled down. Somebody else said it was Copperfield, ..."
to (about the Opera House:
"The whole building looked to me as if it were learning to swim; it conducted itself in such an unaccountable manner, when I tried to steady it."
The translator had varied the "somebody" introductions, and the piece, though of course still funny, had lost it's accelerating dizzying rhythm.
***
What I'm saying is that I had always loved that piece, but I did notice that the Danish translation was lacking, and only then did I notice the fine detail in the original; but it had tickled me all the same, also years before.
too_much_tv
March 29, 2025 at 5:41 PM
An aside: I love to pick up the onomatopoeia in Korean when I'm watching dramas. The translations are so pedestrian. At least twice I have paused the stream and backed up to make sure I heard what I thought I did.
DK-Drama ❤️🎄 Giffing n Space Cadetting 👼🏻🌟
March 30, 2025 at 3:08 AM
If you can think of examples, please give them! 😊👂🏻
too_much_tv
March 30, 2025 at 6:23 AM
I noticed a new one recently, but I forgot to write it down, so I will have to pull up the OG: there is some expression that everyone says, "ha ha ho ho" in the middle of--like, "you were doing ha ha ho ho" and I have no idea what is going on there. Is that a word? If it is, can I marry it? I've seen it translated, "you were having fun."
DK-Drama ❤️🎄 Giffing n Space Cadetting 👼🏻🌟
March 30, 2025 at 12:34 PM
I think mayyyybe I can hear an echo of that for my inner ear - that I have heard that said ... someone who was bitter and so was parodying the ha ha ho ho'ing extra clearly, with and edge of sobbing for having been either left out or the target of the joke, or both.
I haven't gotten so far to put that sound in my pocket, though. But because of you, next time I will *actually* notice.
Lostpanda is now Sadpanda. 🪦 fanwall 🪦
March 28, 2025 at 9:17 AM
When Life Gives you Tangerines
I still don't get the title of the show. and the first drop of 4 episodes had a bit too much screaming women. Those are my only gripes.
Besides that, you are right, this show is magical in the way it portrays universal emotion. Everything is so intense that I feel like I need a cigarette after each episode despite the fact that I don't smoke.
The last 4 episodes just dropped and the only thing on my mind is to get out of work, rush home, hug my wife and kids and press play.
Also, I'm a little bit surprised at the lack of attention this show is getting on DB. It's on track to be as impactful as My Ajusshi. I didn't think IU would ever be able to top her performance in My Ajusshi and yet she has found a another level.
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Unaspirated
March 28, 2025 at 10:09 AM
I'm watching, but slowly, and I think a lot of other Beanies are watching at their own paces too. That's always the trouble with Netflix drops - it's hard to keep up with everything else and find time to watch a group of episodes. I'm glad they are experimenting with four drops instead of one, but I'm still having trouble watching in time to engage with the recaps on here, which might explain the lower engagement.
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Clios Servant
March 28, 2025 at 10:44 AM
I've been holding off on TANGERINES until it was fully loaded. I believe I've only ever seen IU in one other drama besides currently watching MOON LOVERS. I like WWW comments on this show, it sounds like it has vision. Love that, even when it doesn't always translate perfectly.
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JH LOVES KDRAMA
March 28, 2025 at 3:24 PM
I have been waiting for it to be completely out before watching. And also, gearing myself up for the expected trauma - so making sure I have open time to binge watch. The only down side to this is not being in on the commenting as it goes along.
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too_much_tv
March 28, 2025 at 3:45 PM
There have been a few news items about how they translated the title, since the title in Korean was pretty hard to translate. https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/art/2025/03/398_394683.html
But it makes me sad that I can't get every nuance, sometimes.
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DK-Drama ❤️🎄 Giffing n Space Cadetting 👼🏻🌟
March 29, 2025 at 2:43 AM
Translators lie awake at night for those reasons.
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too_much_tv
March 29, 2025 at 5:46 PM
It must be such an absorbing job! I don't think I have enough command of any second language to be able to do it, but I would love to do it. Have you done it? Fan translations?
DK-Drama ❤️🎄 Giffing n Space Cadetting 👼🏻🌟
March 30, 2025 at 2:59 AM
I have translated a bit professionally, but apart from that, you could call my translation of the quote from "Deficit" a fan translation. I also translated a song from a youtuber I like, but I didn't like that in months she didn't get round to approving it, and in the meantime Youtube deleted all unofficial subtitle tracks, and I can see how anyone could just claim that someone said whatever, but having gone through a whole song and making it rhyme it was a bit disappointing, to put it mildly.
parkchuna 🍉
March 28, 2025 at 5:50 PM
It’s kinda hard to spazz without the fanwall. Before this we could just post as we watch, but the recaps for Tangerines, it’s 4 episodes per drop so it’s like you have to wait to complete a set before reading/commenting. And personally, i’m almost always late to the weekly threads and we know days old articles dont get noticed as much (esp w the disapperance of recent comments section) so I’m less inclined to write anything then.
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parkchuna 🍉
March 28, 2025 at 5:53 PM
I forgot to say, I LOVE Tangerines! Episode 11 to 13 is my favourite so far.
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Nessa🌹
March 28, 2025 at 8:52 PM
I’m waiting for it fully finish before I decide if I’m in the mood for it, we’ll see.
As for the English title of the drama— I had a hunch about it taking a note/making a hint to the Chinese proverb (I’m a “CBC”— Canadian born Chinese), and it actually warms my heart to know that it really is what the the title hints at. For once, Netflix did it right:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_Life_Gives_You_Tangerines
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Britney
March 28, 2025 at 11:50 PM
I figured the title is a play on the phrase "when life gives you lemons..." (which is usually used when talking about resilience and perservence which is a trait of the characters)
And since Jeju is apparently known for tangerines, that was used instead.
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11 Kurama
March 28, 2025 at 9:29 AM
It's been almost a month since the fanwall was deleted. Would it be possible to add a button for a page with the new comments? Typing "comments" in the address isn't really practical.
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Midnight
March 28, 2025 at 11:24 AM
@db-staff
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Lord Cobol (Kdramas, like water, flow downhill)
March 28, 2025 at 11:40 AM
Have you bookmarked
https://dramabeans.com/comments/#
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bong-soo
March 28, 2025 at 11:45 AM
Fwiw. I thought ‘Fan Space’ accomplished what it set out to do and now that is gone. O.T and FS are somewhat similar but Squee is a different kettle of fish.
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12 Midnight
March 28, 2025 at 12:54 PM
I have been praising Lee Jun Young's acting and range so much for the past 2 years that it made me feel proud that he is gaining recognition for his acting!
https://m.entertain.naver.com/article/609/0000966660
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Clios Servant
March 29, 2025 at 2:55 AM
He's so, so good. On my radar, for sure, and I'll sample any drama he signs on for.
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Midnight
March 29, 2025 at 6:04 AM
Simply amazing!
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redfox
March 29, 2025 at 6:25 AM
Jun has great energy on screen whether a funny scene or sad scene
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13 Ghost of Tim (eccentric observations from a male perspective)
March 28, 2025 at 1:14 PM
Hi Beanies! My update of this week's hauntings. Of course I'm still watching the Tangerines and Potatoes shows (and loving them), but I fell victim to my male hormones and binged Netflix's Weak Hero. I won't sugar-coat it, the show is a total overload of testosterone, so beware if you give it a try. Nevertheless, it has a couple of twists on the "school bullies" trope, which I find interesting.
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too_much_tv
March 28, 2025 at 1:48 PM
I watched that when it was streaming on Viki. I loved it! I didn't realize when I was watching that the lead actor was an idol famous for being goofily cute and babyish. In the show he is so grim! All three of the lead actors showed a lot of range and emotion.
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Isa is always time travelling
March 28, 2025 at 3:52 PM
I watched it in 2022 and it was one of my favorite dramas that year. It's a wonderful series.
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Kodra aka Qanon something
March 28, 2025 at 6:49 PM
Thanks Isa for Reset, I thought it was great. Probably the most korean-like cdrama I have watched. Loved it!
Fake it until you make it was cute, they did have chemistry but I had to ff all the work scenes and her sister stories to make it through.
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Isa is always time travelling
March 29, 2025 at 6:11 AM
Comment was deleted
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Isa is always time travelling
March 29, 2025 at 6:12 AM
Both are very good shows, but totally different!
I enjoyed them a lot. I always recommend Reset to people who have never watched a c-drama because it's not too long and it's very hooking.
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Clios Servant
March 29, 2025 at 2:58 AM
Herein! WEAK HERO is another example of shows you watch that take real bottom. IDK if I'm up for shows about bullying.
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Isa is always time travelling
March 29, 2025 at 6:17 AM
Some scenes are hard to watch, specially towards the end, not gonna lie 😅
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Clios Servant
March 29, 2025 at 7:12 AM
TBH, I feel like there's too much attention to bullying. Even if the story shames bullying in the end, it's just pervasive -- everywhere. I know it's a convenient "trope" but I don't want to support that.
14 parkchuna 🍉
March 28, 2025 at 5:40 PM
Re Tangerines: never thought Geum Myeong n Chung Seop could make such an adorable couple! Ahhh to see that once familiar dimples of Seon Ho again was so nice.
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15 Lostpanda is now Sadpanda. 🪦 fanwall 🪦
March 29, 2025 at 2:47 AM
Tangerines
It’s now 2:40 am and I just finished. I thought I would finish over the weekend, but it was impossible to stop. I’m physically shaking and it’s hard to breathe.
Hand over the Daesang award 🥇 to this show right now.
I have many words and many thoughts about this one in a million show, but I really need to sleep now.
I want to watch a record number of Kdramas this year just so that I can collect the beans to give them ALL to Tangerines.
Goodnight
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16 DK-Drama ❤️🎄 Giffing n Space Cadetting 👼🏻🌟
March 29, 2025 at 2:54 AM
Watching UNdercover right now on viki if you care to join
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Lostpanda is now Sadpanda. 🪦 fanwall 🪦
March 29, 2025 at 2:56 AM
It’s almost 3:00 am here. I REALLY need to sleep! 🤣🥹😴
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DK-Drama ❤️🎄 Giffing n Space Cadetting 👼🏻🌟
March 29, 2025 at 5:06 AM
❤️😴💤
I have at times been watching dramas that came out 3AM where I live and it is definitely not good for you.
Sleep tight.
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sonai
March 29, 2025 at 4:47 AM
Love how they snuck in a beanie alter ego in shape of the P.E. teacher. 😂👏🥳
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DK-Drama ❤️🎄 Giffing n Space Cadetting 👼🏻🌟
March 29, 2025 at 5:09 AM
I didn't notice - please explain ? 🥺🤸🏻♂️🫘🏃🏻♂️💨?
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sonai
March 29, 2025 at 5:15 AM
Su-ah and her had a short conversation about Hae-song and his public confession. The P.E. teacher practically said what beanies said on the recaps about it 😂
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DK-Drama ❤️🎄 Giffing n Space Cadetting 👼🏻🌟
March 29, 2025 at 12:14 PM
Oh yes - she was even fanfic'ing the development!
DK-Drama ❤️🎄 Giffing n Space Cadetting 👼🏻🌟
March 29, 2025 at 5:04 AM
OMG
Not a lot of spoiler but
OH So much stupidity!
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Procrasti-NationFirstCitizen
March 30, 2025 at 9:28 PM
Yes. SO. Much.Stupidity .
Why do writers always f up the ending, off late?
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17 Unaspirated
March 29, 2025 at 7:32 PM
Beanies, I need your help! I had to do a free trial of Kocowa because I was too busy to catch ep 11 of Undercover High School during its free period, so now I have 14 days to watch whatever I can before I have to pay for another subscription. I’m debating between My Perfect Stranger and Taxi Driver 2. They are pretty different, I know, but I can’t decide what I’m in the mood for! Which would you choose? Or something else?
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18 skelly
March 30, 2025 at 11:24 AM
My blood is boiling about Potato Lab right now. He's officially dead to me. If you have watched episode 10, you'll know who I'm talking about.
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19 Lostpanda is now Sadpanda. 🪦 fanwall 🪦
March 30, 2025 at 12:51 PM
I’m in a grocery store and they have a box of Tangerines. I’m tearing up right now…not gonna lie
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20 squishy_melon
March 30, 2025 at 10:28 PM
Completed
When Life gives you Tangerine: Bittersweet and hopeful, with IU delivering a wonderful performance as both a young mother and a modern young woman.
Because of Love: Wallace Chung and Li Xiao Ran deliver an electrifying performance filled with chemistry, but still left scratching as to why the show insists on their romantic reunion when the ML seems to not have had much emotional growth.
Ongoing:
Wheel of Time: Great world-building and an interesting heroes journey. Characters are still annoying AF but that's part of the journey I guess.
Dropped:
Potato Lab: Hard to keep watching with a FL smitten with a man very different from her in terms of outlook/power without taking the time to understand exactly what she's getting herself into, or the show hinting at the fallout from this. Also, not enough Potato shenanigans.
The Art of Negotiation: Having a hard time engaging with this, and the yappy intern is not making things easier.
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Reply1988 -❣️Mother Bean❣️
March 30, 2025 at 10:39 PM
👋🏾welcome to the comments.
If you add this type of comment to the What We’re Watching page you will probably have more beanies see it. Beanies check that page over the weekend and into the new week to collect titles for future watches based on the feedback from multiple beanies.
If you save this link you will easily find the page in the future: https://www.dramabeans.com/tag/what-were-watching/
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21 Edgar Pordwed
March 31, 2025 at 1:11 PM
I just became an Errand Boy!!!!
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22 Clios Servant
March 31, 2025 at 3:46 PM
This is the lead story in Variety today under "Global/Asia":
https://variety.com/2025/film/asia/korea-box-office-the-match-mickey-17-1236352670/
Quite a good shout out for THE MATCH, and its stars. Historically, Hollywood embraces redemption and is extraordinarily forgiving of star's missteps (especially youthful performers).
Also, this story broke through today in Variety, also under "Global/Asia":
https://variety.com/2025/film/asia/kim-soo-hyun-denies-underage-romance-kim-sae-ron-1236352459/
Variety generally writes balanced accounts of entertainment news, and is widely read (the magazine was founded in 1905). However, that photo ... is a statement in itself (gotta say).
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23 parkchuna 🍉
April 1, 2025 at 4:59 AM
There’s a k-ost concert coming my way n i’m thinking of going. But i don’t know anyone in real life who likes korean osts..so now i’m moaning the fact that i only have 2 friends like Choi Ung in OBS 🥲
also no fanwall sucks since we still have to hunt for replies to comments now. But the site does seem to run faster now..
#stillnotoverthefanwalldemise
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