Oh yeah, the time skip in the beginning! But I didn't even think of that as a time skip. The "now" of the story felt definitely as the time after the time skip.
I mostly mean the time skip that happens in just the moment when you should think they would be happy together. If it is to fill out too much time, I would so much prefer a time skip showing, as I said, how they have evolved *together*.

@CecilieDK It would make a lot of narrative sense to have a time skip showing the OTP's evolution. Usually it is just a snippet not something which adds dimension to the relationship which we have seen growing throughout the drama.

THe ending is not unhappy! If it were, I would not be calling it "funny".
I can spoil a bit more, if you want to, but only if you ask me to.

I was just imagining having children under the ... unpredictable circumstances of the ending. There is not really a story of any absent parents included in the ending.

@ceciliedk I will trust you and move it back up. Thank you for that response. I was going to watch because FL was also in Legend of Blue Sea and I loved her

Do go ahead with the watch. I'm sure you'll love it.

FL is iconic in this role for a reason. 😂

These inconsistencies are bothersome, especially when one would think time skips would mean a change / maturity (hopefully) in previously flawed characters. Not that everything would magically become okay, just that they can handle the issues and cope better.

What work is your "but" doing there? I'm honestly confused. "But" against what part of what I said? My personal opinion about time skips?

"I hear you about your opinion about time skips, but as I say below, I can't think of one that is interesting so you must be wrong or not thinking it through?"

@attiton Happy to raise your hackles!

The but is in response to "narratively interesting" as in yes, I agree with your opinion that time skips are fine if they are narratively interesting --but, I cannot think of an end of romance drama timeskip that is narratively interesting. Do you have one in contradiction to suggest?

@hacja One day, we might have a productive conversation about the ways in which "trying to raise someone's hackles" could be considered the rhetorical equivalent of a "wrist grab."

But I digress.

Your re-framing of your initial reply is helpful. And it seems that what we were/are speaking on two different registers. I was not speaking about specific dramas that I had in mind, I was speaking about the concept of timeskips.

But, I can engage in collegial debate with you, if you like, on the subject of particular examples, sure.

I would say that the problem with Call It Love's timeskip was not the timeskip itself, but the amount of time the creators left for themselves for the "after the timeskip" part. IMO, we needed another 15 minutes tops, not even another episode.

The timeskip itself was narratively interesting, even potentially necessary for them.

If the couple are *together*, then I think it is nice to see how they have grown together in the year or two, or ten or fifty, since all those obstacles that made up the drama were removed, so they could finally be together.

@attiton Although I think at times I do perform a genuine service, by generating a satisfying surge of irritation adrenaline among anyone who reads my comments, this one was an inadvertent wrist grab. (which I'm sure has appeared in some show as a funny variation on this kdrama trope.)

We have a real difference of opinion, though, when it comes to Call it Love. Call it Love for me is a classic example of a time-skip as narrative failure. For that one, I needed at least a couple of discussions between the main couple about the nature of family opposition, and why they chose to give in for a year and go their separate ways--not just a time skip with a few scenes of them enjoying their separate life, and then a joyful hug at the end. While that ending I think was intended to mean they were going to be together again, who can be sure? I hate that kind of ambiguity in presumed happy ending romances!

One show that I might choose to argue against my general feeling that time skips at the end are narrative failures would be Our Beloved Summer, in which the time skip/forced separation attempted to emphasize how, now that their love was acknowledged and fully developed, the main couple wasn't shaken by their years mostly apart. However, I would say even that one wasn't really necessary, and it did have the weird disconnect that @kurama was talking about with Dr. Romantic, where after 3 years, the secondary couple who presumably worked together all this time, were still talking and maybe beginning to date exactly the same way they had just prior to the timeskip, even as the main couple was marrying.

Anyway, as I'm talking about these, I realize that I'm following @ceciliedk in tying timeskips together with forced separations, but there are obviously some ending timeskips in which the couple is shown 3 years later, after presumably not having spent any time apart, and I always find those ending timeskips more satisfying and less objectionable to my well-developed sense of narrative integrity.

@hacja We can agree to disagree, sure. These are K-dramas, where everything is all fun all the time.

However, and for what it's worth, we may again be less in disagreement about the narrative trope of the "timeskip" than about what the trope was serving to do in Call It Love.

I didn't interpret the skip (or their breakup) to be really about their families or any of that at all. I felt that the both of them needed at least a few months--if not a few years--on their own to develop at least a modicum of a "sense of self not dissolved into the needs of others."

This is so that they would even have the merest chance at an emotionally differentiated relationship. They both only saw themselves through other people's eyes--a catastrophe in the making for intimacy.

I was looking for this comment!! So many of the Japanese mangas in the 80s and 90s had time skip.

@midnight that's how the trope migrated to dramas - through the adaptations of these mangas. And then it flourished there even more...

It would be really interesting to know where these tropes actually originated. While I'll be first to confess that tropes are the reason these dramas are "comfort watch" but obviously they would have started somewhere and then developed along the way. Makes me wonder how many tropes fell away by the wayside and were abandoned as the simply didn't work anymore.

@Seeker tropes evolve with the society. In the past, there were more "violence" in the couple like forced kiss. It was one of the reason I wasn't a big fan of thai dramas (in addition to how the language sounds).

@Kurama I remember that. Also the MLs were "colder" and the forced kisses were quite the norm. Thankfully not anymore. Small mercies.

@seeker lol, every single one ML being a rich raging tsundere with a "childhood trauma"))) Ah, the good old times...

It would be a rare day in dramaland for uri MLs to get some therapy.

And I'm sure many (read all) Beanies will happily offer free live advice to the MLs.

* urgh ... life advice

Also live, if we could. If, that is, we could trust him to not beat us up for having the audacity to be wiser than him.

@seeker I still can't believe that some of them actually did! It just feels surreal - wait, is almighty Power Of Love not enough anymore then?! Mind blowing.

And that is why we all love Ji Sung (and all his personas).

@CecilieDK I do think FLs of the yore were more assertive and not struck with Hong-jo-itis of falling in every plot hole possible. But yes even today in our world many many girls and women are reluctant to offer "life" or "live" advice to their male counterparts as they are not taken seriously.

*smh* Sigh. Not happening.

And I have never seen it used in something dark and/or realistic-ish.
Would be quite fun if it happened in Taxi Driver! I'd love to see that!

It doesn't change the fact it's a trope too. There are different tropes for different genres.

I don't think the time skip ruins a drama. It's often useless and the story could still happen without it, but except in DDSSLS where the reason was really bad, they're frustrating because I would have prefered to see the leads together but it's all.

🤣🤣🤣 Gosh that is such a *drama* thing. Cracks me up every single time. Also that falling in his arms. Heh.

Fallen kiss in Taxi Driver. 😳

@claire2009 Ottoke

@Kurama Omo ... this is such a light bulb moment. I never thought of it quite like that! Indeed different tropes for different genres makes a lot of sense.

@seeker Should it happen in Taxi Driver, I guess it would be between 2 male characters 😅

@claire2009 A trope is a trope ... what has gender got to do with it. 😂

@seeker yes, no gender bias here! 😅 I just tried to fit it into Taxi Driver and that’s the only possible way imho 😂

@claire2009 I'm all for this unique take (fan-fic) on Taxi Driver 2. Don't know how the production/ actors would react.

@Seeker, the season 2 is already out :P

It could happen with Choi Kyung-Koo and Park Jin-Eon duo 😂

If I hated tropes, I wouldn't be watching K-dramas. But I don't like tropes mostly does more harm than good. And that's how I feel about those "Now all those obstacles are gone, so let make up a new one and say "one year later", to be sure they can be together also when there are no excitement left.
If they need to grow ... honestly, it's normal to grow together!
That's how you know whether it works out or not.

Most definitely. I'm always rooting for a HEA and if we get a time skip to *skip* over seemingly insurmountable problems in the present I'm fine. I appreciate your earlier comment about this trope being used to add depth and intriguing but I can seem to recall a single drama where it was done so well. 😊

It was just to rub it in that they were destined together. 😛

Well they definitely had unique taste. 😅

As an actor I'm amazed at how well he pulls off both OBY and DS. As a character it is Lee Hwan all the way. For me at least. 🙌

As an actor I'm amazed at how well he pulls off both OBY and DS.

@seeker It's incredibly stark isn't it? I have been hollering about this for a year now. I am being constantly surprised. After watching DS honestly I thought I had seen it all, then the re-watching reminded me there is really very little similarity between the two and we are probably scratching the proverbial surface of his talent here.

If we are seriously comparing his filmography then infact NONE of his characters have anything in common. 😂 He is perhaps the antithesis of being a typecast actor but as wonderfully expressed by you earlier his work in say Bong Soon has been such a global phenomenon that automatically one would think he's great in romance. But again his romance in Bong Soon, Soundtrack #1, Happiness, OBY and DS are like different people all together.

Also maybe because Lee Hwan was initially so still (not just keeping his right hand still but holding his whole body stiffly) I found his handsomeness more overpowering. I felt somewhat pressured (also tad distracted) by that paint-worthy face. He was literally not just poetry but a painting in motion.

So sorry that you did not have a good impression of the drama. The fact is that it was NOT supposed to be a romance per se. The promotional material and our K-drama expectations made us automatically want a romance especially since the OTP's chemistry was chemistying!! For me even a no-kiss would have worked. That chair scene which sonai has helpfully put up on their wall today really made my heart bloom - just like the flowers atop that bare tree. 😊

@Seeker They promoted it as a romance too.

What's the point to get tropes like cross-dressing, ennemy-lover and cohabitation if you won't actually use them?

The title was really weirdly chosen too.

I think there were several little misteps with this drama.

I do agree about Tae Kang, he was quite underwhelming for such an important role (I remember wishing someone like the guy who was in King's Affection had played this part). Bada showed how you can be a rookie without being a rookie haha!

@minniegupta1

The issue is even without the acting, the actor looked very young. So Park Hyun-Sik looked more credible as a good fighter than him 😅

All your points are valid and the mis-steps perhaps occurred in trying to disassociate themselves from the original. Unfortunately lack of time and suddenly shortened timelines did no one any favors. The promotion of the drama was a tragic faux pas which perhaps sealed the fate if the drama then and there.

So you’re saying, fraidy-cat me has to watch HAPPINESS for the romance?

*screams into the void of “global phenomenon” vs. “horror”*
😭😅😂

@sonai while HAPPINESS is scary to a degree (more in a "humans are worse than zombies" social commentary suspense/thriller way than pure gory horror), it's a really well made drama overall - directing is fantastic, action is great, performances are really memorable and yes, romance there beats many romcoms/melos in their field without breaking a sweat. It wasn't just woven surprisingly organic into other genres script-wise - chemistry was also through the roof even with all setup limitations. The literal golden standard of battle couple trope. Honestly, kdramas are yet to give me an OTP even closely as good since then...

@sonai This was the only horror I have watched in a very long time. I waited months before I could muster courage to watch it. I had been giving it a pass for at least two years, before being a PHS fan, and for months after that. But then I watched it, and I have rewatched it. Many times.
It's not the kind of horror that induces jump scares and cheap thrills. It's one of the most thoughtfully crafted dramas I have watched - something I do not give many dramas, Korean or otherwise, credit for. But even with my uber critical eye I could not find much fault (well, I do have some, and I have raved and ranted enough, but my complaint is of a more personal nature and not reflective of the quality of this drama). Go for it. In fact this could be another happy community watch after Signal.

Wait the next community watch is Signal??? How did I not know this😆😆

@gikata @minniegupta1 Sounds very promising, thank you for your replies! I steered clear of this drama despite its cast because of the genre (same with Kingdom *cries for Ju Jihoon*), but might give it a try. Guess I can still opt out if it’s too scary or even action-y for me after all. 😆

@minniegupta1 if HAPPINESS gets a community (re)watch, count me in - I kept delaying another round for ages and now would be a perfect time!

@sonai KINGDOM is FAR more gory and bloody than HAPPINESS - I'd say that while in the former horror element was THE main thing (zombies! in Joseon! chomp-chomp-chomp!), in the latter it was mostly a narrative tool which writing easily put aside for a while when possible. It's not a zombie drama - it's a very obvious covid metaphor human drama with "zombies". HAPPINESS is still rather action-y though, but it's a very nicely done action - neither gratuitous violence for the sake of violence nor lazy fake fighting many dramas with not trained enough leads go for. PHS was freshly out of real life elite army squad and both his physique and martial arts skills were at their peak there. And HHJ was shockingly great too - I only knew her as a romcom/dramatic actress before, so all that ass kicking was a pleasant surprise.

Oh, forgot to add - it's a VERY claustrophobic show. Like super intense. For anyone who carries severe pandemic lockdown trauma it may very well be too much.

@gikata 🫰👏 I guess that sold it to me. Will definitely give it try, and join the community watch once you start!

Yes, KINGDOM seemed quite gory. I needed to jump dive for the remote when Netflix once started to play the trailer on its own when that show was newly added 😂 As much as I regret it, the level of zombie-chomp seems to outweigh the pleasant sight of Ju Jihoon in Joseon King‘s attire… 😂 Pass!

@Sonai @gikata Done! Let's do Happiness Community rewatch after Signal. Signal is I think 12 episodes, and OBY finishes end of April, so six month of Signal, which would put us in mid June for Happiness community watch.
@midnight @seeker @koalatown @nefret @isagc @bebeswtz @claire2009 @skiee @23new2kdrama @jls943 @mmmmm

Correction: so six weeks of Signal.

Green light from me. Ah! I'm all set for this!!

@minniegupta1 excuse my question but according to what I saw on @claire2009 post, don't we finish OBY May 18?
I'm happy to finally have found signal to watch in my FL USA zone- on Paramount plus of all places. Have wanted to watch for awhile so I'm excited

You are right. We have six more weeks of Our Blooming Youth to go and will start Signal from May 23-24, 2024 onwards.

@23new2kdrama Oops, you are correct. Thanks! I did miscalculate. It is indeed May 18th. So that would place us mid July for Happiness Community watch.
We are going to be busy :D

Minnie, Signal is 16 episodes. In any case, I'm in!! I'm already so excited, as I've been trying to find a reason to re-watch Happiness for a while now. Of course the motivation is PHS, but I'm not a fan of bloody zombies (or rabies for that matter), that's why I kept delaying it.

Just a quick note: Chief Inspector 1958 starring Lee Je-hoon is starting on April 18. I'll be live-watching that one. If you guys don't want to be watching 2 LJH's shows at the same time, we may consider swapping Signal with Happiness? I'm ok either way ^^

@claire2009 Let's keep the schedule as is. I plan to watch 1958 too, I really like the premise. An actor who can act and is also easy on the eyes? I can do 2X of him :-)

@minniegupta1 I never got your tag! Came across it accidentally just now!

I guess I shall opt out of being tagged this time. 😅😅 I regret it a lot because group watching is so much fun, but Signal once was enough for me, and I can never watch a zombie show.

Oh no! @midnight *sigh* both dramas are such I can't even request you to watch it for the fun chats. Let us chat in other threads till we get to a Community Watch that you would like.

@seeker Thank you! Have fun! I do check the fanwall regularly so I will still enjoy your chats!

@midnight We still have 6 weeks of OBY and I also need to respond in the previous posts. 😊

@bebeswtz and @marcusnyc20 very kindly helped me understand the reasons behind the wobbly OBY. So many people across both countries had to suffer because of one person.

https://www.dramabeans.com/members/bebeswtz/activity/1547560/

It was supposed to be a completely different story. I do think the script writer is not the best one for historicals might have added to the woes (her Romance Is A Bonus Book was also a much loved but flawed to a fault drama).

@seeker Thanks for sharing this, it's so sad how the act of one person can have such damning repercussions for so many.

@minniegupta1 It is thanks to the knowledgeable Beanies who kindly shared their knowledge and helped us understand the context better. Perhaps a direct adaptation would have been better - considering she wrote such wonderful dialogues. But apparently tweaking the story and making it cohesive was out of her depth. So poor viewers were left with a inconsistent story which could not be saved by the wonderful scenery, direction or acting.

Fair point))) I still prefer live discussions during ongoings though, it's just not as fun otherwise.

When I binge, I'm less attentive to details. When I watch in live, I rewatch the episodes waiting for the next one.

Two whole days...how did he survive!! (by following her around like a duckling of course....hehe!)

I think we have overtaken the Open thread (*looks around sheepishly*). This needs to go on @sonai's wall.

Pressed sent before completing my thought - however, the first two times wrist grabs were beautiful because both the times JW does it to show his support, to tell her he is there for her. Their relationship starts with that first wrist grab. And solidifies with the second.
What's not to love....

Equal opportunity grabs ... who doesn't want to grab Park Hyung-sik.

But of course I NEVER told him how much that affected me but he know better than to lay a finger on any other woman now. 😛😂

😂

😂😂😂😂 No less than Hae-in I hope. My hubby is also forbidden from acting cute in public. While he was recently trying out a Dockers white shirt with a mandarin collar the sales girl suddenly and strangely started fangirling over him. With sparkling eyes she told him how amazing he looked and that not just *anyone* can carry off a basic white shirt quite that well. (Now really Sister!) Even my stink-eye had no affect on her but apparently caught the attention of two male staff. It was weird to an extent that the girl had to be told to restrain her comments by her colleagues. Like any self-respecting 2FL she retorted back saying "Why ... but he is looking really good so what's wrong in saying so." Meanwhile, hubby pleased as a punch thanked her gracefully and promptly purchased the shirt. While I was left punching air. He of course treated me to a spur of the moment candle light dinner, no less as he laughed off the comments of the "kid". That was just another day in our dramaland.