Secret Garden and Coffee Prince are the classic K-dramas which cannot be recommended. I love the FLs and ❤ the MLs in both these dramas ... but 🤷‍♀️ what to say.

I mean I would happily recommend Goblin (to a person who understands fairy tales) or even K2 to a JCW blinded newbie but not Secret Garden or Coffee Prince.

Does SG not hold up? Everyone in it is great! Almost all of Ha JiWon's early stuff is classic.

@celebith you're absolutely right! Ha Ji-won is the reason to recommend Secret Garden. Even my mother had an unprecedented case of SLS for Oska!! It is the ML's character (not Hyun Bin's acting) which can be disorienting for a K-drama newbie.

My Name is Kim Sam Soon is a treasure indeed.

You're so right, Spain is unbelievably beautiful.

Hyun Bin's cheesy aegyo is also not corny but cool!! ♥️😍

💯♥️😂

Spain is unbelievably beautiful and has a very cinematic quality. Which area are you from? I've had the chance to travel around there during Easter many years ago when I was a young nanny. I hope I can bring my family to Spain one day so they can see how gorgeous it is. I miss queso de burgos so much! You can't really find it outside Spain...

Usually I roll my eyes at actors in Korean dramas doing crazy things in overseas location and acting all cool (lol) but if it's Hyun Bin doing crazy things in Spain, it's OK ^^ I don't know why but he's not as corny as some other actors and he makes it believable.

Isa hope you enjoy Granada. Post some MoA filming location pictures if possible.

@ahjummaaa

I'm from the SE of Spain. I live in a Mediterranean coastal city :)

You know what? The "queso de Burgos" (Burgos cheese) pairs really well with kimchi.

Hehehe... after watching K-dramas anything pairs well with kimchi. 😍

@seeker

You can count on it! 😉

After watching Jinny's Kitchen it was fun to pretend that my rameyon had been prepared by Park Seo-joon. 😍😂

KING THE LAND is an excellent "Starter" drama.

I found Matchmakers hard going. Parts of it were OK, but I was glad when it was over. Sacrilege I know, but there it is. I only watched it because so many people raved over it, but I was glad when it ended.

Skewed Expectations indeed, it could be harmful to any future sageuk watching !

Old school sageuk. Torches , have to have plenty of torch lit scenes. Scheming ministers, sneaky eunuchs, bloody battles.

New fusion sageuks, no torchlit scenes, overload of pastel colors, FL that has a side gig , no bloody battle scenes.

Choooooonaaaaaaaaaaaa

They like to sing this song in the throne room, and I absolutely despise that because whenever they cry this word, there is going to be a tragedy around the corner.

@mmmmm

Jeooonnn-ha!!! Humor from Matchmakers itself: https://i.imgur.com/kcn1TV7.mp4

Seems like a fun drama. @attiton Extremely self-aware and likes poking fun at itself.

That was in this post 😉 https://www.dramabeans.com/2024/02/drama-chat-if-you-had-to-recommend-one-drama-to-a-newbie/

Yes, Bossam is very much like the older sageuks in that it has the ep count and the more realistic setting to get into explaining things.

Bad Guy was the first drama I witnessed the outrage on DB for its ending 😄 It was a bit shocking and very entertaining to read all the comments on it.

Terrible, and yet.

As you wish.

Yep - it's just not as compelling when the driving plot question is "what will study abroad do to my three-week-old relationship with this cute guy?" or "how will I balance work with dating?".

Let me just reply because I find sageuks for the most part, as trivial as any slice of life drama if not more so. This is where we differ. I find it more compelling to think of young people today dealing with jobs, money, and relationship issues, because I have children in their twenties, and I know many of them, whereas when I'm watching a show and I see, that "Oh no! An obscure crown prince is about to be poisoned by the left minister!!!!" I yawn.

Sageuks do NOT deal with the suffering of ordinary people. In fact, that's why I dislike them, as a historian. The vast majority of sageuks treat history as a history of the elites, as if that was the only thing, or even the most important thing that mattered. But even though many tell history as a history of politics, in the end, that is only a very small part of history. Despite Korean political history, the kings and male political elites were not more important to history than the women, farmers, merchants, slaves, concubines, etc. that made up the bulk of society. Or to jump to the present, the chaebols are not more important to Korea than the 30 something struggling with relationship issues.

But of course, do the stories of ordinary people make for an interesting drama? Not for all of us ordinary people who are trying to avoid considering the tedium of our lives. So even though, as a historian it is very hard for me to take sageuks seriously, still I know that those who like sageuks like them because everyone likes shows about wealthy and elites, as a form of escapism. This has always been true of popular culture!

Still, does that mean I'd recommend a sageuk to a kdrama neophyte--I guess if they loved the Crown, or maybe Succession, to pick two U.S. popular shows.
But otherwise, for most, I would recommend a superhero show, like Moving, or a revenge drama, like Taxi-Driver, or a rom-com, like King the Land.

@hacja you're right about sageuks being rather classist - it's almost always royals/nobles/secret royals/fallen nobles/half-nobles at most as leads, which is quite limited in terms of perspective indeed. It is related to escapism probably, but also likely to the fact that commoners lives at the time were largely uneventful - in a positive sense of a word. Grand things worthy of a drama coverage could happen to them too ofc - but these things would be wars, uprisings, plagues, natural disasters etc. Aka not the stuff you can easily add a swoony romance between pretty leads and possibly HE to.

I disagree with the claim that sageuks don't deal with realities of lower classes though. That's just not true, esp if you watch enough sageuks and not only those that are all about fights for the throne. Granted, sageuks where non-royals/commoners take important part of the narrative are more rare, but they exist. And you can still find a lot of servants/peasants/merchants/slaves/gisaengs even in those snobbish sageuks too - them and their troubles aren't always treated with enough attention and care, but they are not THAT invisible. In fact, it's those dramas and their small bits about low-class folks precisely that often left me thinking about the issue deeper compared to in-your-face "horrors of peasant life" dramas. Maybe because I posses a bad habit called critical thinking)))

Also, is there a thing as "anti-escapism"? I mean, when I watch scheming ministers of Joseon scheming against innocent virtuous leads, what I think the most often is not "I want to be part of that!" (heavens forbid!), but "my life royally sucks, but at least not this much!". Questionable thesis as of lately ofc, but it used to be like that for a while. Does that make me a bad person who finds solace in misery of others? *scratches head*

@hacja there are definitely lots of a badly written, formulaic period shows out there (as there are with any genre), and I would love to see the focus move beyond the rich and powerful more frequently. That being said, I do find shows that delve intelligently into how political and social systems work (or don't) quite interesting as these are things that do have a massive effect on ordinary people's lives. I also watch tons of contemporary shows as well, but for me if I want pure, glorious, escapist entertainment, I'd love for it to come with beautiful people beautifully wielding swords.

Sageuks do NOT deal with the suffering of ordinary people. In fact, that's why I dislike them, as a historian. The vast majority of sageuks treat history as a history of the elites, as if that was the only thing, or even the most important thing that mattered.

@hacja I completely agree. I'm not a professional historian but I love history and have a good working knowledge of European history in general, and English in particular. There are so many eras, subjects, themes. A historical drama set in the UK can be about absolutely anything, in any period, about any class. It isn't just the same palace intrigue rehashed over and over again.

I'm trying not to miss the point, as I understand what identifies Korean dramas from those of other countries, so I accept there will be a cliff of doom, thwarted love, evil stepmothers, politics, poisonings, etc, but I do so wish these elements could be presented in a more inventive way instead of served up stale, time and time again.

I keep trying another (against my better judgement) and keep coming away with the same disappointment. If we must be in the palace, why not a k-Upstairs Downstairs, a wider view instead of the same narrow one? Let's take good look at everyone (not just the eunuchs and sourfaced court ladies) and the impact their various conflicts have on each other?

I'd certainly give something like that a go, but please - no jokes and trivial characters. Then I might recommend this to a first time k-drama viewer.

@kaddicted one of my favorite sageuks that is very much not a "palace" drama is Nokdu Flower about the Donghak Peasant Revolt. It's not always an easy watch, but it definitely focuses on the people at the bottom of the Joseon caste system and their push to change it.

@wonhwa, @hacja, @kaddicted

Seems like we've come to the root of problem here - the so-called relatability/representation vs entertainment debacle, which has been rather heated in cinema lovers circles lately. I never fully understood why this was even a question because, let's face it, both sides have a point and you cannot really make a great story with just one of these elements without another.

Also, personally I do not consume fiction mainly for any of these, but because I want to broaden my horizons and understand (at least try to!) logically and empathetically things I wouldn't likely experience otherwise. Sageuks with all their dusty palace intrigue tropes and suffocating class system can give me that - I've already learned A LOT from them - but modern shows about familiar normal problems of regular people EXACTLY like me? Hardly. If I ever craved some normalcy, I'd want more of it in my own daily life - not in dramas which have already been lacking big time being engaging one way or another lately...

P.S. @wonhwa don't forget REBEL! They even make fun of other sageuks with ML's identity)))

@gitaka yes, Rebel is another good example of a lead from the lower classes, although the plot structure issues in that one drove me a bit nuts. Like My Dearest I appreciated the social commentary - the storytelling logistics, less so.

@hacja
"The vast majority of sageuks treat history as a history of the elites, as if that was the only thing, or even the most important thing that mattered."

If I had a Bean of a Week for comments, I'd give it to you. So, so, so MANY people do not realize that what we generally know about history is actually a history of elites. That's why I'm so addicted to those history YouTube shows that ask pretty hilarious questions (like, did ancient Romans wear underpants) and three videos down I find out that one of the most common illnesses of Romans were eye infections because the city was so polluted with dust and other matter. Neat, isn't it?! History is FASCINATING when told from perspective of ordinary people, and I fail to see over and over why there is not more fiction written about the common folk from past era.

Ah ha ha! Okay gotcha. 😂

But it was bad from the beginning... The ML ran away and lied during the whole show, not only the end.

And while she wasn't aware of it, the FL was in a romance with a high school student. Ick.

Great explanation of how I feel. I know age gap is a sensitive subject to many. When I watch a drama I want a main couple I can watch intently, focusing on the story. My mind, unfortunately, sometimes gets caught up in the couples looks, chemistry, past shows ect. It creates an issue for me. This is my problem, not the shows, but if I'm not going to enjoy the 16-20 hour experience, it's better to move to the next show on my list. That being said, because I watched Goblin years after it was made, it was easier to focus on the big picture.

I actually loved it despite the lame ending.

It was a very realistic drama in the sense love didn't resolve everything, characters didn't really change, the world was still unfair. It showed how it's difficult to get out from our habits and the societal norms.

I know I sometimes feel like that about something other Beanies hate, @Kurama (E.g. I to me, Castaway Diva was a super relevant drama about abusive parents, the importance of civil rights and data privacy, an also about PTSD and feeling lost in your life, while for others, it was a badly executed Robinson Crusoe rom com drama interrupted by much too much stalker parent).
And obviously, I was not introduced very positively to this noona drama. Reading it, it just seemed like a lot of unnecessary back and forth.

It's better to make your opinion.

Korean society can be very frustrating for international viewers but I think it's important to be open when you watch this drama.

I found SYJ very brave to take this role.

It’s like moving in circles when you were promised progress. At the end of the day you found out that after 16 row you’re right where, or even worse, further back than when you started. It left bitter taste in my mouth.

But you could say that Some K-dramas expose that. Or, they leave the field open, sketching something that could be, like this satire illustration https://www.dramabeans.com/activity/p/1547165/

Disclaimer: It was an early watch for me, and I was gulping dramas during this phase, so for many dramas I just remember the feels than the actual story. It's never been on my re-watch list but I didn't know it was so widely disliked, I would have given it a closer watch lol.

Tbh, Minnie, it’s ok if you like it. Everyone of us here is different and we have different preferences. I’m happy that some like it though I don’t think I will understand.