Branding in Seongsu: Episodes 1-12 (Drama Hangout)
by DB Staff
Welcome to the Drama Hangout for U+ Mobile TV’s rom-com Branding in Seongsu, where Kim Ji-eun and Park Solomon have an office body-swap altercation.
This is your place to chat about the drama as it airs. You can also check out our First Impressions review.
Beware of spoilers! This thread is for discussing the entire series.
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Tags: Branding in Seongsu, Drama Hangout
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1 Reply1988 -❣️Mother Bean❣️
February 7, 2024 at 9:53 PM
Can someone who is watching this give an indication of the level of tension around the mystery/stalker levels. Compared to I can hear your voice and the drama I can’t remember its title but was about a tv anchor who can’t forget anything he experiences. I would class them as the far edge of my very limited tolerance levels
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hacja
February 7, 2024 at 10:27 PM
@reply1988 I watched the first 4 episodes tonight. There are 2 incidents which might push to your tolerance, one that is imagined, and the other with the killer bunny, wearing a pretty scary bunny mask. But both those could be fast forwarded through. But let me describe the show a little more in my next comment to see whether you'd think it worth your time.
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Reply1988 -❣️Mother Bean❣️
February 7, 2024 at 10:35 PM
Thanks for speedy response. Do you know the drama title with the anchor with the memory issues? The leads did a hilarious cameo In Shooting stars as the female lead from that show was linked to a dating scandal with the male lead in Shooting stars.
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hacja
February 7, 2024 at 10:46 PM
Was that "Find me in your Memory?" with Kim Dong Wook? I never saw the actual show, just the cameo.
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Reply1988 -❣️Mother Bean❣️
February 7, 2024 at 11:02 PM
Yes thank you, that’s the one,
2 hacja
February 7, 2024 at 10:44 PM
I wonder any who was watching had the same reaction I did after the first 4 episodes. Pre-body swap it was setting up as a pretty interesting business ethics scenario-the woman as the ruthless marketer, the eager intern as an animal rights activist who was impressed by the woman and thought he could turn marketing into a positive force. Her fall as a result of the expose of the cosmetics firm could have set up an interesting body swap because he would realize that another side of business practice was not just her unethical drive to succeed BUT also, the harassment and belittling of her work as a successful woman.
BUT I was completely thrown by the ending of episode 4. Why the kiss? The talk of wanting her and her soul seemed to suggest that he was a devil, or something, but that was preceded by him waking up in her body screaming, so he obviously didn't know what was going to happen. Anyway, I must admit I was a little disappointed, because I thought the first episodes were pretty intriguing, and even with the supernatural angle and the killer bunny I knew was coming it would still have made some interesting points. I'm going to keep watching it just to see what the story was, but the story could be wasted potential.
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Reply1988 -❣️Mother Bean❣️
February 7, 2024 at 11:07 PM
Thank you, that’s really helpful. It sounds like it’s going to be a drama of two halves serious part one, rom com and thriller part two. I will await feedback re the thriller element in the second half as it’s bound to step up.
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Grand Sophy
February 8, 2024 at 9:54 AM
His sister(?) is a shaman, might run in the family. My interpretation is that it was the FL waking up in his body, since that's the body reflected in the mirror. Does that mean they're going to be acting as their true selves, while everyone reacts to their presumed selves?
The ML looked pretty determined getting dressed (also, nice abs!) and at the party, I'm going to assume the kiss was a way to seal their deal, i.e. the soul exchange. He did state his intention clearly, she implicitly agreed, not every deal has to be signed in blood.
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hacja
February 8, 2024 at 11:25 AM
Yes, you are right--she was waking up in his body--I didn't think through what the mirror signified.
But then was the rabbit mask guy trying to kill him? Was it the kiss that resulted in the soul exchange? Anyway, clearly I wasn't quite following that entire sequence.
One really silly thing that bothered me a little bit, was that, given his concern about the rabbits used for testing, he would defend the shoemakers, and wouldn't artisan shoemakers be using leather, unless there was something about them being vegan that I missed.
Also, I found it a little difficult to appreciate his crusade, since even prior to the kiss, he was engaged in low key sexual harassment of his boss, by continually claiming that she was so impressed by his good looks that she was harassing him. That was a lot more obnoxious to me, at least, than her willingness to overlook the cosmetic firms lies in order to get a big contract.
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DK-Drama ❤️🎄 Giffing n Space Cadetting 👼🏻🌟
March 4, 2024 at 5:26 AM
I am not sure he is not a rabbit ... or a rabbit god? Maybe?
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DK-Drama ❤️🎄 Giffing n Space Cadetting 👼🏻🌟
March 5, 2024 at 2:58 AM
I think a good deal of people who use leather (and eat meat) are against testing on animals, considering it to be unnecessary cruelty.
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LT is Irresistibly Indifferent and reminded of the slow march of death
March 1, 2024 at 8:57 PM
I was also expecting a body swap, as in hijinks of some kind. With him being in a coma, it gives the whole thing more of a body jack vibe.
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3 Kurama
February 8, 2024 at 10:28 AM
First, the short episodes don't work with this story.
Secondly, I didn't like the leads. Whatever happened in her life, she deserved to be fired, she knew about the researches on animals and burried it, used the intern to expel the people, etc. She doesn't have morals, she just wants to succeed. You can be good at your job and still have morals. The intern was boring and naive pretty much everytime and using his good looks to get excused was tiring.
I didn't understand the last scene. It was weird he would like to kiss her after everything she did. So if he knew what will happen, why was he so surprised at the hospital?
Until now, everything was meh...
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4 hacja
February 22, 2024 at 10:18 PM
I'm posting on what seems to be an already archived page to say that I've now watched half of this, and its not half bad! Although the mystery is half baked, and the business side has a several cliched characters, the gender swap is not overdone for overly broad comedy so far, and the connection between marketing, "framing,"and the way gender is portrayed in society is actually relatively thoughtfull. There are some episodes that will offend the culturally conservative, so that's something to keep in mind, but so far I'm enjoying it. I'll post a final assessment on a couple of weeks.
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parkchuna 🍉
February 24, 2024 at 8:14 AM
I’m not even watching this but just came here after your comment in WWW to check the hangout 😄
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i see castles
February 26, 2024 at 10:25 PM
I appreciated your pov in the first impressions post. One of my girl friends is watching this and has enjoyed it. I watched 3 episodes tonight and like it well enough. I’m curious how the body swap will go.
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i see castles
February 28, 2024 at 9:22 PM
Coming back here to say THANK YOU again! I am cruising through these episodes and loving every second! This show is fun and light and hitting all the right notes for me right now. I can’t believe so few folks connected with it. Bummer.
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hacja
February 28, 2024 at 9:46 PM
I'm waiting until tomorrow to watch the next 4 episodes, and then I'm going to post another comment but I also wonder why it was so completely rejected right away. I'm glad you are liking it as I did. But of course, sometimes there are a small group of people who help change tastes. "Influencers" I believe they are called. We'll just have to work one viewer at a time!
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DK-Drama ❤️🎄 Giffing n Space Cadetting 👼🏻🌟
March 4, 2024 at 5:30 AM
I like this show, too. There might be things that it could do but doesn't, and most often, shows that make a complicated and intriguing finale possible, still end up with some half-baked solution, but as for now, I still love the show. Even if I had the Kinky Boots solution ready at the first mention of "handmade shoes don't sell".
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DK-Drama ❤️🎄 Giffing n Space Cadetting 👼🏻🌟
March 5, 2024 at 3:10 AM
(Kinky Boots PS: Especially as the Drag Queen of the team is actually so good-looking. I even think they could have done a lot better, with better, less messy pictures of him. There should have been long shots caressing the shoes and sliiiiiding up along his legs, cutting to his face and some hair that didn't have light from the back to make every loose hair look prominent.
And the scene at his performance: Maybe the simple stage on the floor made it look underground and cool, but since a lot of Drag Queen performance is about glamour, or even glamourissimo, I think it would have been possible and better had the stage been elevated so the shoes were in eye's height, a bit like a catwalk stage.
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5 hacja
March 1, 2024 at 10:58 AM
–I’ll make a few general comments about what I’ve seen so far, and then some thoughts about episodes 13-16.
I can say this show really is something of a cliched story—a female lead (Kang Na-eon) who is flying high, but then crashes and needs her comeuppance; a ragtag team, the lowest of the low coming together to make good; an evil male CEO who manipulates the jealous woman assistant by promising her that she will be the boss, and then the whole body swap fantasy with the naïve, and somewhat simple-minded male intern (So Eun-ho) as a conceit as a way to pull two opposites together.
But that last is really a joke, because I actually haven’t seen many body swap shows. Still, I imagine that the woman in the man’s body and vice versa has some really commonplace scenes.
Depending on the frankness of the drama, I think menstruation most be one. However, even though I doubt this is original, I liked that though that it wasn’t just played for laughs—it really was somewhat eye-opening to Eun-ho in Na-eon’s body, Also, I thought it was fine to link the issue to sex toys and the way women’s issues are slighted. It is true even in the U.S. that sanitary pads are often hidden away on shelves, as if this natural, commonplace process was shameful. And it is definitely true that condoms are more widely available in stores than sex toys. Of course, the comparison isn’t exactly one to one, but it was an okay point.
Referring to an earlier marketing case, I also liked the use of drag queens—talented men who act as women, both because of its reference to the body swap, but also because it highlighted the gay team member’s singing ability. I think that redeemed what is a stereotyped portrayal in this character, although I certainly know gay men who behave like that, but also many who don’t, which is the whole trouble with stereotyping!
However, the stereotyped character that I enjoy without reservation is Jenny, the parody of the young woman social media influencer. That character is very funny. In fact, I loved the last marketing case in episode 16, the caustic exchange of hip on-line lingo with the hostile daughter of the owner.
One final general thought—both actors, Park Solomon and Kim Ji Eun are great playing Kang Na Eon in whatever body she is residing. But I’ ve noticed that I only like Kim Ji Eun playing the character So Eun Ho—she is able to balancing his identities general good heartedness, with his vanity, his simplemindedness, and his occasional flashes of insight. So there could be several things:
1. its just easier to play a ruthless, hard-driving executive either man or woman
2. Kim Ji Eun might be a better actor than Lomon
OR 3. My bias prefers a woman playing a more stereotyped feminine role. That would be a little depressing!
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6 hacja
March 1, 2024 at 11:27 AM
Comments on 13-16 : I’m treating this drama as a conventional 12 episode one, with two episodes a week that I watch back to back. As a result, how the episodes are divided doesn’t make an impact on my viewing and I’m not really paying too much attention to how each episode ends except for every 4th one.
That means that the one weeklong cliffhanger for me was in episode 12 —will the woman in the man’s body kiss another woman; and the man in a woman’s body kiss another man. I figured that they wouldn’t, but I found it interesting that in both cases, it was the woman who repulsed the kiss, suggesting that the Na-eon in the man’s body would have had no trouble going through with the kiss, even though her identity is heterosexual. Perhaps the male body she was in shaped Na-eon’s desires? Or Na-eon is so driven to discover her attempted murderer that she was willing to sleep with anyone?
Speaking of kissing, the kiss that occurred between the two leads still in swapped bodies raised the interesting issue about kissing yourself, or at least kissing a physical image of yourself. The difficulty of doing so was apparent in their first kiss in swapped bodies, as they were attempting to reverse the body swap. This 2nd body swap kiss didn’t have the same disturbing impact on the leads, although that one seemed to result in temporarily switching bodies back to normal. This was actually not a bad way of showing the characters were falling for each other—they were able to see passed appearances and were attracted to the person within. Or, they just really loved themselves and wanted to kiss themselves!
The character I dislike the most in this drama are not the villains, but the presumed second male lead, who not only tried to kiss Eun-ho in Na-eon’s body, but also barged into her apartment and intended to spend the night there, even though he witnessed Eun-ho kissing Na-eon. But as with most things gendered in this show, we are supposed to see this character embodying not just unrequited love as part of a love triangle, but also male privilege with his assumptions about her needing him.
The switch back to their respective bodies was well handled, I thought, although again, I don’t like the way the Lomon plays the male Eun-ho. Also, just speaking in terms of the story, I was disappointed that Na-eon went back to her old cold and ruthless self, not rewarding the underdog team with a decent marketing assignment. It could be she actually knew that they would do well in this assignment, and she was pretending to go back to her old ways for the sake of catching the evil CEO.
Still, maybe the fact that they switched yet again shows that she has to learn her lesson, be more compassionate to those employees who are loyal to her before she gets to remain in her own body.
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hacja
March 1, 2024 at 11:47 AM
Finally, in the 8 episodes/two weeks remaining in this drama, there are a few things that the show needs to wrap up, WITHOUT GOING BACK TO THE JOSEON ERA which is my perpetual fear in these fantasy romances. At least the time slip usually only go back a decade or so!
1. Obviously, the role and motive of the shaman woman has to be explained, since she clearly is the source of the swap. Since the shaman was talking with the bunny in one of those episodes, I assume it goes back to marketing businesses that use unethical practices, but maybe not.
2. There has to be a good explanation of the ghostly black smoke tendrils that wrap around Na-eon's neck. Do they represent the her unrestrained ambition that she must somehow bring into check?
3. While it seems the evil male CEO is the attempted bunny mask murderer and the source of the fall of Na-eon, since he did the same thing with the former woman CEO, it would be good to explain his motive for sabotaging the marketing attempts of the firm beyond just his own personal ambition. I assume that will come out when he exposes the real soju/alcohol free drink swap and the reason he wants the auto deal to fail.
As far as the romance--I think before I really get behind it, I like for the ML to acquire some maturity, and stop talking about how good looking he is. But I'm not sure we'll get that.
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hacja
March 1, 2024 at 11:50 AM
To the 2 people who will read this--as usual, I apologize for all the typos in my comments. I always type in haste, and it is difficult to fully review my comments because the windows are short and my comments are too long. I would love to see an edit function! Either that, or I should switch bodies with a skilled typist.
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DancingEmma
March 6, 2024 at 1:50 AM
You have been feeling lonesome I see. We have to find a drama where more of us can hang out!
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DK-Drama ❤️🎄 Giffing n Space Cadetting 👼🏻🌟
March 4, 2024 at 6:32 AM
Maybe he talks about how good-looking he is because his body from the outset is acquired.
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DK-Drama ❤️🎄 Giffing n Space Cadetting 👼🏻🌟
March 4, 2024 at 6:35 AM
I mean, I think there's at least one more involved in all this, and if there is a rabbit spirit somewhere in the calculations, it might not be quite up to date as to have humans normally talk about their own bodies.
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DK-Drama ❤️🎄 Giffing n Space Cadetting 👼🏻🌟
March 4, 2024 at 6:37 AM
As you can see, Hacja, you are definitely not the only one who occasionally posts typos in haste. The problem is that it is so impossible to go back and correct. 😢
hacja
March 4, 2024 at 8:55 AM
Yes, it could go that total fantasy route, rather than just the mystical powers of the shaman which even a lot of realistic kdramas include, and that would be very wacky and could be funny. But I think it more likely that it makes a semi-serious point about abuse of bunnies as a business practice that should not be lied about through marketing.
DK-Drama ❤️🎄 Giffing n Space Cadetting 👼🏻🌟
March 4, 2024 at 6:57 AM
Another idea I have is for them to end in opposite bodies and stay together. She likes his body ... but really more as a thing to have than a thing to, - you know. But not because she is transgender, as I see it, but because the kind of person she is gets more respect if they are taller, fit's a suit without drowning in it (as her female form is doing in these latest episodes) and can go to the men's room to grunt jovially between meetings.
And he really loves his own body and wants it in the way he imagines everyone else does.
So they could live as a body-swapped couple.
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Elinor, Team Glasses team co-captain
March 4, 2024 at 9:09 AM
😮👏🏼 Wow! This comment and line of thinking actually make me want to watch this show. (Not that I have time.)
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hacja
March 4, 2024 at 9:17 AM
That would really be great. If you think about it, the female body in this one offers the woman no advantages whatsoever, since the greater toughness and longevity of women won't be coming into play in this show. Plus, Na-on doesn't have the more wise and balanced perspective common to her gender. Of course she has experienced the discrimination that comes with being a woman, but in response she has adopted the ruthless methods of male executives. And finally, she obviously isn't interested in motherhood, so she would not want to go through the struggle and sacrifice of some of her own career ambitions that being a mother would require.
Whereas, the male lead, although he isn't that thoughtful, has shown some compassion, and could benefit from inhabiting a woman's body, in terms of society's expectations and his own.
This show could make a good argument for transgender people! Do you think it would go this far? No. Sadly, I don't think so. This is a fantasy Korean drama we are talking about.
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DK-Drama ❤️🎄 Giffing n Space Cadetting 👼🏻🌟
March 4, 2024 at 9:34 AM
She did say directly at one point that she could easier achieve a higher position in a male body.
What I am talking about is not really the transgender experience, because it is rarely about just wanting to behave counter-stereotypically to your gender. It is that *plus* feeling a stranger to your own body. Since a lot of cis-women feel trapped, not in their body, but in expectations to their body-type (I really mean genitalia-type etc) , some feel that transgender people are attacking their right to be, e.g., a woman and a beer-drinking, much-swearing mechanic. But while it is true that people who do not conform to gender norms are harrassed often and a lot, being transgender is beyond that.
It took me some time to understand, but some transgender people I know online have been so kind as to explain it or send me links several times. (Thank you, kind transgender people).
One transgender woman (that I don't know personally) described for an audience who recognized the situation, how she woke up with a morning ... well, a seemingly for men recognizable story about the technical everyday hurdles of having a penis that has two uses, so to speak. And when everybody (a lot of cis-men) was laughing sympathetically (sym- path as in feel with her and also know the feeling) about the scenario, she said: "The difference is that all the time while this happens, I am crying."
So, not the same.
But still - the moment you let people be a little different from the gender norm, you are already helping all the people who long to be different without being hated.
hacja
March 4, 2024 at 9:51 AM
Good point about real life transgender people being uncomfortable in the body they were born with--I wasn't trying to oversimplify the real life transgender experience.
Nonetheless, the transgender people I have known really do exhibit some classically male/female gendered behaviors that are not the ones "expected" by their birth body type. So at least one part of their discomfort--certainly not all!--consciousness of self is complex!-- has to do with social expectations of gender.
Kurama
March 4, 2024 at 11:33 AM
But if she finds easier to in the body of a man with her ambition, it would be sad that the message is that you need to be a man to be successful...
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hacja
March 4, 2024 at 11:47 AM
That is very true! They would have to make it so that "success" was defined as "happiness." But, you know, I think we are asking too much of this show...
DK-Drama ❤️🎄 Giffing n Space Cadetting 👼🏻🌟
March 4, 2024 at 3:16 PM
It's because it is possible! We can see it, only just beyond our reach, and we always end up hoping that this time, this drama will actually go there. Something controversial, fun, and fantastic will happen!
But no: The gift was that we could be allowed to imagine that, but the PPL paying the wages demands something that doesn't make people with money and power angry.
DK-Drama ❤️🎄 Giffing n Space Cadetting 👼🏻🌟
March 6, 2024 at 8:53 AM
She was fairly succesful already. But it is easier as a man. You are forgiven more, and being aggressive is seen as attractive in a man, and embarrassing for a woman. And like that, a lot of other things are interpreted differently in a man and in a woman. I mean, alone "being strong". It is often interpreted negatively in a woman.
Within limits, of course, but lots of research and instances supports this.
DancingEmma
March 6, 2024 at 1:53 AM
How amazing it could have been if we all had the ability to swap genders back and forth if we wished. I don’t like it being imposed or the unpredictability but your idea is generally amazing.
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DK-Drama ❤️🎄 Giffing n Space Cadetting 👼🏻🌟
March 4, 2024 at 6:51 AM
hacja, I am thoroughly enjoying reading your comments because I agree with a lot of it and am curious about other things ... and not many seem to find this show as intriguing as us few fans here.
I also want to know more about Na-eon ... has some traumatic experience shaped her fears and also her inhumanity? And yes, it was very surprising that she went all the way back after having been part of a team - why is she so ice-cold?
But almost even more with the ML ... what's his real agenda? Is he a rabbit spirit, as I theorized? But where is the real person's spirit, then?
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hacja
March 4, 2024 at 9:37 AM
@ceciliedk Thanks! I appreciate that you are watching this one. The problem with this drama is that it just isn't good enough to take advantage of some of the submerged themes it has. If it took either of your suggestions above--going full fantasy with a rabbit spirit, it could be a strong critique of corporate abuse of animal rights. OR if it would go the permanent gender swap route, it could be a defense of transgenderism. I just can't see either happening, however.
In fact, it struck me that the bunny mask murderer will not even turn out to be the CEO, but rather the second male lead, who will turn out to be a obsessed stalker-so that even the critique of corrupt business executives and deceptive marketing will be muted. I don't think this will happen, but it could.
In a way, this show reminds me of a much better acted and higher production rom-com Her Private Life, where Park Min Young played an art museum curator who was also led a kpop idol fan group. It made some great points about how idol fans collected associated objects, and curated their idol's experience to make it personally meaningful, drawing direct parallels with museums and exhibits of artists. But then it dropped the whole theme to focus in on the Male lead's trauma! The show just wasn't thoughtful enough to carry off the balancing of a light rom-com with an interesting cultural commentary, and that's true, even more so, of this one.
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DK-Drama ❤️🎄 Giffing n Space Cadetting 👼🏻🌟
March 4, 2024 at 3:11 PM
You'll probably be right - K-dramas are almost always huge treasure chests of unfulfilled potential.
Her Private Life was so disappointing - even without deep commentary, it could have had an ending where the FL didn't gravitate from almost superpowers to deadly boring normalcy.
Even while fixing male trauma there should be room for not losing what made her special.
The most exciting social and/or anti-andro-centric commentary will probably not be made here, alas, you are probably right.
During K-dramas that take up fantastic elements and/or controversial themes, we are so many who imagine interesting and complicated points made in exciting and entertaining ways that fit with the criteria presented in the first half of the show. And then it is all rolled up and ended in some very much not exciting way, again and again.
Less meta:
I hope the SML does not turn out to be the rabbit murderer. But it could be anyone who had their body stolen at that moment, and that means it can also be our ML without being our ML. There can be a triangle or a quartet of body swaps.
Clearly, the evil CEO knows something, and also clearly, that shaman had a talk with a rabbit.
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LT is Irresistibly Indifferent and reminded of the slow march of death
March 4, 2024 at 3:41 PM
Having for some reason now watched all the episodes aired to date (and for clearer reasons now conclusively dropping it), I have to confess that I think this drama you're all talking about is a significantly better drama than the one we're actually getting.
I'm afraid I'm not really seeing what you're seeing in a drama that, to me, is a bit of a mess. And yes I'm saying that after having seen this week's episodes (despite declaring that I wouldn't). It would be kind of great if a drama did exist that explored gender, identity and sexuality in this way but I don't really think this is it.
It's sparked some interesting discussions though.
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hacja
March 4, 2024 at 7:48 PM
Sometimes you work with the drama you have, sometimes with the drama you imagine!
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LT is Irresistibly Indifferent and reminded of the slow march of death
March 4, 2024 at 9:38 PM
To be honest, after having seen particularly 18, I'm left scratching my head about... almost every decision this drama has made.
Apart from the Donnie Darko references. I'm always here for Donnie Darko references.
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hacja
March 4, 2024 at 10:07 PM
16 was the last I watched. But I wouldn't be surprised if it had totally fallen apart. I'll check in on Thursday.
From your references to Donnie Darko, I assume the bunnies (or at least one of them) made a reappearance. That's exciting, at least!
LT is Irresistibly Indifferent and reminded of the slow march of death
March 4, 2024 at 10:38 PM
Oh no, the bunnies have not reappeared. I was referring unfortunately to the show as a whole - or rather the earlier episodes.
No bunnies, no rabbit masks. Just a whole lot of nonsense.
DK-Drama ❤️🎄 Giffing n Space Cadetting 👼🏻🌟
March 6, 2024 at 11:19 AM
@hacja , When you post your comment about episode 17 through 20, will you tag me?
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7 DK-Drama ❤️🎄 Giffing n Space Cadetting 👼🏻🌟
March 5, 2024 at 3:27 AM
I think we deserve a link to the original story about a struggling shoes factory saved by drag queens and transwomen.
https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-22940451
I have looked to see if I could find some of their advertising material but with no luck. If anyone finds it, please show me. :-)
Though of course, having your story made into a succesful film and an even more succesful musical ... franchise, even, is more advertisement than you could actually pay for.
Also, it's moving to read here that several people actually contacted this man to offer their support after having heard of the crisis of his business. One of these people were Sue Sheppard who specialised in "transgender specialist glamour wear".
(Though being a drag queen and a transwomen is not the same, I remember once seeing a transwomen in a café, dressed so elegantly I really wanted to tell her. She was in a fourties' kind of jacket and pencil skirt, ... just think of a beautifully filmed BBC WW2 film heroine and add a foot in height, that was how she looked. I see it so clearly in my head how she sat there, radiating vaseline-on-the-lens melancholy dreaminess.
I wanted to say how much I admired it, but was nervous I would say something wrong. With my present knowledge, I KNOW I would have said something wrong, but also that I could have done it better today, paying a compliment ("A pleasure to see so much beauty and style ...") without actually going faux pas (like " ... for a man") and ruin it.
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DancingEmma
March 6, 2024 at 1:56 AM
Oh, oh. Kinky Boots, the film! I adored Chiwetel Ejiofor as Lola/Simon.
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DK-Drama ❤️🎄 Giffing n Space Cadetting 👼🏻🌟
March 6, 2024 at 8:54 AM
Kinky Boots, the reality! AN actual shoe factory in ... Northampton I think.
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8 hacja
March 8, 2024 at 10:03 AM
I’ve now watched episodes 17-20. Although @ceciliedk suggested a couple of interesting ways the plot could turn, bringing out some of the admittedly submerged implications of the show, instead the story took a dramatic, and unfortunate turn, with the Male Lead out of nowhere revealing himself to be an enraged revenge seeker, determined to make the female lead “suffer for what she had done.” Now, of course there are other absurdities (which were always there) of what is causing the body swaps (the spirit of the dead woman, I suppose) and the readiness of the rival woman executive after overhearing a conversation between the leads--“oh that explains everything- they are body swapping!” But there are even bigger problems with the revealed revenge motive as far as I’m concerned.
1. First, it wasn’t at all clear why the FL was to blame for what happened to the ML’s friend. The FL apparently claimed a business idea of the ML disabled friend for a larger candle firm. But in the end, the FL is a marketer, not a candle maker. It’s the larger candle firm that is responsible for this business claim, isn’t it? Is there a suggestion here that businesses are just passive instruments in the hands of marketing consultants? That is not the way corporate capitalism works in my experience!
2. That leads to the latest case, which, according to the now revealed as vicious revenge seeking ML, is exactly parallel to the one for which he is punishing the FL. And yet this one seems like a simpler tech stealing case, which again, has very little to do with the marketing firm. Besides, have any of these small companies heard of patent infringement lawsuits? Sure, maybe a kind hearted disabled woman didn’t have the legal resources to protect her ideas, but certainly even a small tech company would.
3. Finally, as far as the business side of things, if the revenge seeking ML really wanted revenge, why would he single out one woman executive? Why not the whole firm, or why not the male CEO? Doesn’t he understand by now how the business operates? He’s seen the FL brought down with deception by the male CEO, and yet he still assumes that SHE needs to be punished.
And that brings up the truly unfortunate gender implications of this narrative turn...
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hacja
March 8, 2024 at 10:13 AM
The transformation of a goofy, nice guy, who wanted “sunbae” to reform her methods, into a somewhat deranged revenge seeker who might in fact be the bunny killer, and who has vowed to destroy the FL, was particularly jarring because of the fact that he learned nothing from the gender swap. So even though he experienced the ML experience time as a woman, he still is working with other men, to bring down her down. The FL executive certainly lacked compassion, but her main sin is her ambition and drive.
Yet the show seemed to suggest he was justified in his vow for revenge, and should be pitied as a victim of a woman. I'm sure it will come out in the end, that he'll understand that the FL wasn't really to blame for the accidental death of his disabled friend, but it still leaves the story partially justifying the ML's anger at the FL--when in fact, the only reason he's singled her out is because she is a woman.
The second male lead, who again popped up in the FL apartment without warning—why? What a stalker! I had originally pegged him to be the bunny killer! becomes a decent guy, because he treats the FL as the subject of his romantic/sexual interest—so he can see her as a woman with feminine emotions. He doesn’t respect her as an executive, but treats her as someone who needs protection. But even, let's say, that he does turn out to be the bunny killer who is doing it out of jealousy--the FL is still being singled out because she is a woman who isn't feminine enough.
I’ll watch the last episodes next week, and maybe the moral will be something different, but right now, with this latest plot twist, any criticism of gender stereotypes and sexism in business that was there in this show, (again, I know that this criticism was submerged, because this show is not the greatest) has been thrown out the window.
In fact, all that’s left is the idea that successful female executives either are jealous rivals of other female executives, who slept their way to their positions, or they are unethical, driven women who have forgotten their place, and need to be brought down by male victims. I’m especially dismayed, because this show was written by two women--though who knows what happened in between the script and the production. But unless there is some other dramatic plot twist that totally alters the current narrative trajectory, right now its regressive in its message.
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DK-Drama ❤️🎄 Giffing n Space Cadetting 👼🏻🌟
March 8, 2024 at 12:11 PM
I have been waiting for your comments!
I was just about to pout and stomp, but then they where here.
I didn't sleep very much last night, so I am not smart today. So disclaimer for saying stupid things today.
It was very sad to se our ML being so mean and revengeful.
He blames her of course because he knows that she was the one who (by mistake) ended up with those papers.
But she did that by his mistake. He was the one who was making a mess in the entrance hall (or what would that big glasswalled front room be called?) It was his bad that they ended up mixing papers. Of course he doesn't know how much it took for her to not let that ruin her whole day, her whole career, and as I understand, even the career of her senior friend.
But it's even more his fault, because his ... sister? ... didn't really want to become an international brand. She wanted to make those scented candles herself, enjoying her work and having enough customers to make a living that way. She didn't put her foot down to stop him, though, and he didn't listen to her enough to actually hear what she wanted and needed. The accident is not his fault either, but he needs to blame the FL loudly to avoid hearing his own voice blaming himself.
I think that when we were back ... was that only two years ago? the woman were all super supportive of each other. Something went all wrong, and I am guessing it was not just ambition that made them enemies. I think something connected to the magic, utilising the hierarchy, ruined the nice, supportive team of woman that was there not so long ago.
I hope - that crying ghost hopes it, and so do I, also because I like their strange kabedon chemistry - that they will find some of those nice people so many of them were a few years ago.
***
The leader of that small company that made that tech thing seems to have gone a little gaga, or is that just me?
***
I noticed one time that the rabbit hat exactly the same posture (head slightly tilted) as our ML, and he can very well have been one of the wearers of that mask. But as I said, even when someone has been wearing the mask, we do not know that it was really them who wore it.
Even if the ML thinks that this has happened because he prayed for it, it is obvious that the ... shaman ghost? ... does not want them to be as mean as possible to each other.
Will they end up being the small firm know for creating miracles for small, ethically superior companies?
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DK-Drama ❤️🎄 Giffing n Space Cadetting 👼🏻🌟
March 8, 2024 at 12:22 PM
I have a kind of sceptical attitude towards scented candles, because I was at a party once with some very nice people and sat in a chair enjoying the company (I get all wistfull). Anyway, suddenly my breathing gets caught, I can't, I try to like breath, or to cough or to but it's like there's a lock on my throat. Some one helps me to another chair and I catch my breath again, and the hostess comes in that moment and asks what was wrong, and I say it was like I suddenly couldn't breath.
Oh! She says. Luckily, she had just lit some air-cleaning sent candles a few minutes ago.
"Hm." I thought. And caught the eye of one other guest, whose eyes were clearly saying "Hm, indeed."
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DK-Drama ❤️🎄 Giffing n Space Cadetting 👼🏻🌟
March 8, 2024 at 12:24 PM
Scent candles, irrespective of their import/export status. Not "sent candles". 🙄
hacja
March 8, 2024 at 12:52 PM
I'm a fan of scented candles either, because depending on the scent it can just totally dominate the room. Even a food scent, like vanilla or cinnamon is so intense that its unpleasant when its put into a candle. Maybe if they had kimchi or bulgogi scented candles I'd like it better.
hacja
March 8, 2024 at 12:53 PM
Oops, I meant I'm NOT a fan of scented candles!
hacja
March 8, 2024 at 12:44 PM
Well, again, everything you say is true, and the ending you propose would be about the best we can hope for right now, in my opinion.
But I'm still a little upset at the way the narrative just ignored every meaningful message available to it. Really, would it have hurt the writers or the show to have the shaman represent a bunny spirit, who was trying to teach the FL a gentle lesson about caring about what she was marketing, and meanwhile teach the ML that he sometimes had to be pragmatic and shrewd about fighting for his principles, and that his boss was really a marketing genius who fully deserved her position, especially as a woman working for a hostile male ceo? No, it would have not have weakened the show in the slightest!
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DK-Drama ❤️🎄 Giffing n Space Cadetting 👼🏻🌟
March 8, 2024 at 2:20 PM
Tuesday I went to a museum and spent maybe half an hour in the exhibition about censored and self-censored satire.
There was this illustration that showed my idea of what some of those K-dramas do, and I was going to write about it here, but then I decided to make a post on my Fan Wall for later reference. Here goes:
https://www.dramabeans.com/activity/p/1547165/
DK-Drama ❤️🎄 Giffing n Space Cadetting 👼🏻🌟
March 8, 2024 at 5:57 PM
It is not a weakened show, it runs Mondays through Thursdays! 🙄😉
🤭🤭🤭🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣📅📺🐰👨🏻🦱👻👩🏻🧝🏻♀️🎐
Seon-ha
March 8, 2024 at 5:07 PM
A propos of nothing, @hacja, do you know who else made just one little mistake but then got all accused of murdering his MIL? Oh Min-seok, playing the most handsome villain of all, all, all.
Seriously, you trip one old lady and she accidentally hurts herself, and suddenly you're a villain and no one will ever forgive you. It could happen to anyone.
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hacja
March 8, 2024 at 8:24 PM
Oh no, don't go trying to exonerate a good looking guy when a spectacularly beautiful so called "older" woman gets blamed for something which any loving mother would do! As a defender of family and motherhood, I completely reject your presupposition!
DK-Drama ❤️🎄 Giffing n Space Cadetting 👼🏻🌟
March 14, 2024 at 1:00 AM
So, uhm, hacja ... waiting for your Finals comment. Just saying.
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9 Kurama
March 15, 2024 at 1:03 AM
I have no idea what story this drama wanted to tell :
- Grief : but it was absent during the most part of it ;
- Revenge : again the ML forgot it during the whole part of the drama ;
- Genres male and female : the body swap was barely brought in this terms, they had no issue to swap their bodies. The only thing they brought was the periods and it's all. There wasn't any comedy with it.
- Ecology : the ML started as very opiniated about animals rights, ecology, etc but completely forgot about it after.
- Romance : I have no idea how the leads fell in love with each other because they were very different.
- Fantasy : there were magic elements like the ghost part in the darkness that brought nothing to the story.
- Thriller : who tried to kill the FL? I didn't care at all. at the beginning, she was awful and didn't care about anything or anybody except that.
- David vs Goliath : the employees on the bottom of the scale who fight against the villain directors (It was not really a surprise that the woman was the villain, it's always the nicest ones who stabs in the back)
At the end, it tried a lot of things and failed pretty much everything.
The acting wasn't bad but neither super good and the style of the characters was pretty weird between the panda eye make-up and the weird choice of clothes like the final scene.
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10 hacja
March 15, 2024 at 9:42 AM
Before I begin, I’d like to thank @ceciliedk for her willingness to watch this show and comment with me, while also acknowledging @kurama as the other person who stuck this show out. My comments show the danger of Dramabeans opening a hangout space in which I could give free rein to my admittedly always lengthy comments, which I know frequently get this response from other commentators: https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/1070005-reaction-images
(For anyone who isn’t familiar with the Golden book series, this is NOT an actual children’s book, although I would have much rather have read this book to my kids than “The Roly Poly Puppy)
But, back to the show: it of course turned out that the FL was NOT guilty of the brand-stealing crime that the ML had plotted for 6 years to get revenge for, and furthermore his girlfriend had actually been killed by the real culprit of the whole thing, the highest ranking female executive, who was always the sinister power behind the throne. The bunny mask attempted murderer was indeed the 2ML as I had suspected almost from the beginning-- whose motive for the two attempts on the FL life was he liked her, and he was talked into doing it by the female executive, who apparently won him over with the argument “when she is dead, she’ll finally love you” which is good reasoning to a crazed serial murder, but since he was presumably a competent colleague with a crush did not make much sense. And while I’m on the topic of the murderous 2ML, he apparently got out of jail in less than a year for his two attempts at murder, suggesting that Korea has an incredibly lax justice system for men who don bunny masks and try to kill someone.
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DK-Drama ❤️🎄 Giffing n Space Cadetting 👼🏻🌟
March 15, 2024 at 2:10 PM
Cannot but agree. That explanation for all the problems made so much sense and it is a bit like pulling a girls pigtails to get her attention if you throw her out over the banister to fall many meters into a thin plastic sheet with water in it, because if she happens to survive, she will, after a month or so in coma, totally fall in love with you. It makes so much sense and is a legit expression of love to try to kill someone.
The ONLY surprising thing about that was that ML didn't fall in love with 2ML after that experience.
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Seon-ha
March 16, 2024 at 4:22 AM
OMG WAS THAT A MEME FROM @hacja??
Not only that, I am so totally going to encourage this ajusshi. Your choice was fucking hilarious in style and tone. I may or may not agree with it from time to time, but today--I laughed real hard.
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hacja
March 16, 2024 at 8:11 AM
I thought the bunny was appropriate for this show.
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11 hacja
March 15, 2024 at 9:43 AM
As far as the business lesson—the FL does learn to be kinder to her colleagues, and her ambition to become CEO is therefore realized. Apparently part of this kindness is to adopt an open floor plan, which I guess symbolizes a more democratic organizational structure, but would, I imagine be really distracting to most employees. She also changes the orientation of this branch of the firm to representing small business. Again, this reorientation is supposed to symbolize a more humane marketing model, although to me, it doesn’t necessarily follow that small businesses are more ethical than large ones. But, of course, despite its early hints, the show pretty quickly pulled back from any serious critique of marketing or business practices. The fact that the ML at the end opened a sustainable, no animals harmed business of his own I guess could be taken as a positive view of this type of business, but large cosmetic firms escaped the show unscathed, despite the show’s opening.
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DK-Drama ❤️🎄 Giffing n Space Cadetting 👼🏻🌟
March 15, 2024 at 2:14 PM
I assume that was because those rabbits were evil rabbits who used that makeup to Joan Collins their way up in the world, exploiting the poor makeup brand owner.
Otherwise it would make no sense they got away with lying like that.
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12 hacja
March 15, 2024 at 9:44 AM
As for the romance, it ended with a kiss, so that’s something, I guess. But interestingly, it was the least passion filled kiss of the three romantic kisses shown. (There were several others--I do give this show credit for having kissing as the mechanism for body swapping, since unlike many DB commentators, I prefer kissing to hand holding as a way of expressing romantic affection.) The reason is that the late reveal of the Ml’s vengeful motive sapped all the romance and sexual tension from the body swap. It would have been good for the show to reveal that early, with the ML being shown as pulled toward a greater understanding of the FL by inhabiting her body, rather than him telling her at the end that was what happened. But also, despite evidence that she was not evil, it took extraordinary amounts of evidence—first a video where the FL was explaining what happened, then the admission of the evil Female executive—before the ML truly believed in the innocence of the FL, despite inhabiting her body. He never really deeply apologized for his assumptions and his attempt to bring her down, and then after saying “I’ll be by your side” he left her for a year, and she was pretty much fine with that. So a last scene kiss didn’t feel like a culmination the way it should. So, while the concept might have sounded good—lets have the revenger and the person he’s trying to get revenge on swap bodies so they can understand each other—the execution was off.
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13 hacja
March 15, 2024 at 9:47 AM
So, if anyone is still reading this comment, here is my final verdict. I remain convinced that this show had the germ of a good idea: the body swap of a man and a woman, in the context of a marketing firm which deals in images, and with an ambitious female executive as the FL. It could have used this fantasy to critique our stereotyped images of gender, and especially our view of ambitious career women as being somehow unethical because they deviate from traditional “feminine” standards. Instead, it made the villain an unethical female executive. Or, it could have taken its initial critique of marketing as a way corporations whitewash, or greenwash, their worst practices, and amplify that, Instead it ended up with the argument that marketing is fine as long as it pays more attention to small businesses. Or, in terms of human/romantic relationships, it could have illustrated the adage, “to understand someone, you should try to walk in their shoes” rather than have a late melodramatic plot twist that undermined the growing attraction that was the premise of several of the episodes.
But at no point did it fulfill my hopes for it. Was it therefore a truly awful show? No, it was actually pretty watchable, and you can easily zip through it, although fast-forwarding is tough -- once they start switching bodies, you need to know who is in what body to follow it. Would I recommend it? Not really.
The real question: was it worth the amount of verbiage I uploaded to this site? The answer to this is unequivocal: DEFINITELY NOT!
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DK-Drama ❤️🎄 Giffing n Space Cadetting 👼🏻🌟
March 16, 2024 at 6:57 AM
I have to disagree on your last point here, hacja.
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