Destined With You: Episodes 13-14
by Unit
Who’s ready for some noble idiocy? Not me. Our penultimate week ushers us into the OTP’s angst era, where self-sacrifice and tears come out to play. Our resident stalker also ramps up his craziness, and the full story of our destined lovers’ past life is revealed.
EPISODES 13-14
This week begins in Joseon, and here, we see that Aeng-cho basically had no choice but to become a shaman. According to an older shaman who saved her life back when she was a child, if Aeng-cho didn’t become a shaman, she was going to die from an illness caused by the spirits.
In the present, while spells and curses no longer matter to Shin-yu, they matter to Hong-jo. And since she’s the one who put the curse on him, she can’t face him with her guilty conscience. Poor Shin-yu tries to gaslight Hong-jo into believing that she’s imagining her visions of the past, but she clearly remembers the moment she was stabbed. Instead of going for couples therapy or something, Hong-jo asks Shin-yu to give her some time. “The memory is so vivid that I cannot see your face anymore,” she says, and I smell something. Ah! It’s the familiar scent of noble idiocy.
Left to Hong-jo, she’d rather disregard the past and live happily with Shin-yu. If she can’t do that, at least she should be able to break the curse since she placed it on him. But according to shaman Eun-wol, only death can break the curse. Hence, Hong-jo’s decision to let go of Shin-yu. And for Shin-yu, being let go of means mindless stares out the window, and brooding shower scenes. There are some benefits to noble idiocy after all! *wink*
An ill-fated relationship? Death? Shin-yu doesn’t care. After all, all men must die at some point. Shin-yu being reckless in love? I love it! But Hong-jo doesn’t feel the same way. “Are you telling me to watch you die?” she retorts. She’d rather they stay apart for a while, and maybe he’ll get better. “If it’s still the same will you stay by my side then?” Shin-yu asks, but Hong-jo has no reply.
What Hong-jo does have is a shoulder to cry on in Jae-kyung. “Why are you pushing him away when you like him this much?” Jae-kyung asks, speaking on behalf of all of us. “If I were Shin-yu and even if [I was sick because of you], I would want you to stay by my side,” he continues. But of course, Jae-kyung is only advising her in a neighborly capacity. “As a man, I want to stop you from going to him,” he says, and he no longer speaks for us!
Our OTP barely gets a breather from their breakup when new problems crop up. The spell items in Shin-yu’s potted plant are discovered, and all roads lead to Na-yeon. Na-yeon tries to deny her involvement at first, but she comes semi-clean in the end.
Na-yeon claims that Garden Man approached her with the anonymous pictures since she was Shin-yu’s girlfriend, and he threatened her into helping him. But Shin-yu isn’t buying her innocent act. “Should I report you two for theft, defamation, and stalking?” he seethes. Please, do! But he doesn’t. Pfft. Instead, he gives her a stern warning not to forget that she’s the mayor’s daughter, and that her actions can affect her father’s position.
At home, Hong-jo does some PPL vacuuming to get her mind off Shin-yu, but the sound drowns out Shin-yu and Jae-kyung’s calls to alert her that their CCTV has caught Garden Man outside the house. Oh dear! When Hong-jo eventually answers the phone, she panics, and begins to lock her windows. She’s about to lock the last one when Garden Man grabs her through the security bars. And though I totally saw it coming, I still screamed! “If I were young and handsome you would’ve opened the door,” Garden Man sneers, and sir, if you don’t step away from that window!
Shin-yu rushes over to Hong-jo’s like a mad man, and thankfully, the cops are already around by the time he arrives. “Are you her family?” an officer asks, and Shin-yu replies with, “I’m her boyfriend.” I know the situation is tense, but Shin-yu dropping the B-word got me blushing and curling my toes. Hong-jo begins to protest when Shin-yu tells her to stay over at his place, but he cuts her short. “I can’t give you more time. Today’s the last day that we stay separated,” he says. And it’s official, Jang Shin-yu is the paragon of swoon-ness.
I cannot believe this man’s rizz made me temporarily forget that we’re sitting on the time bomb that is Garden Man. And you know, it’s not just empty words — it’s in Shin-yu’s little gestures to reassure Hong-jo that she’s safe with him — whether it’s covering her hands with his in the car, or drawing her close when he suspected something fishy in the parking lot. Ugh! Be still, my heart.
But despite all the swoony reassurances, Hong-jo insists that she’s only staying over for one night. “I don’t plan to make you stay only tonight,” Shin-yu reminds her, and I’m blushing again. He excuses himself to buy some nerve calming pills, but Hong-jo doesn’t want to be left alone. “Don’t worry. I’ll be with you all night,” Shin-yu says. All night doing what, sir? Doing what?? Sigh. That’s it @Unit. You’re going straight to the perverted thoughts jail. Do not pass Go, do not collect $200.
When I said I loved Shin-yu being reckless in love, I meant him fighting against destiny and his ill-fated relationship with Hong-jo. I certainly did not mean leaving Hong-jo alone at home to inspect the suspicious vehicle in the parking lot under the guise of buying pills! Sure enough, it was Garden Man’s car, and Garden Man is now in the elevator and headed to Shin-yu’s house. Hong-jo, as well, doesn’t pick Shin-yu’s calls and now she’s going to answer the doorbell. Sigh. Every week, we go through this. Are safety precautions a joke to these people?
This whole scene had me screaming at my laptop like a mom yelling at her toddler to put down a pair of scissors. My goodness! I love our OTP to pieces, but they seriously stress me out. Luckily, Shin-yu gets to his door before Hong-jo opens to let in the big bad wolf Garden Man. Unfortunately, that crazy man grabs Shin-yu, stabs him, and shoves him into the stairway. OMG!
To prevent Garden Man from going back out to meet Hong-jo, Shin-yu holds on to him and informs him that the cops are on their way. By the time Hong-jo bursts into the stairway, Garden Man has escaped leaving a bleeding out Shin-yu behind. It’s the reverse scene of Aeng-cho’s death in Joseon. This time, Shin-yu is the one stabbed and holding his bloodied hand to her face. “Aeng-cho, I’m sorry,” he whispers, before slipping into unconsciousness.
Returning to Joseon, we see that Mu-jin (Joseon Shin-yu) asked Aeng-cho to elope with him, but she refused. These days, all it takes is water to the face and an envelope of money to get a couple to split up. But back then, Mu-jin’s father had people torture the older shaman to pressure Aeng-cho into rejecting Mu-jin.
The star-crossed lovers meet again when Aeng-cho gets a rude invitation to the palace by a concubine who is desperate for a son. When Mu-jin — who’s now a palace guard — sees Aeng-cho, he chases after her and they patch things up. (By the way, did anyone else get a flashback to that historical site scene in week three where Shin-yu ran after a woman in hanbok?)
The sweet relationship continues until the concubine gives birth to a son, and tells Aeng-cho to curse the crown prince. Aeng-cho informs her that anyone who casts a black magic spell will pay the price in blood. And the concubine — who already knows about Aeng-cho and Mu-jin’s relationship — tells her to make a choice between paying the price herself, or making the person she loves pay the price. Damn.
The crown prince is cursed, and the king orders for Aeng-cho’s capture, and for her spell books to be burnt. Aeng-cho denies cursing the crown prince, and warns that whoever kills her will die, and their generation will face early deaths until they all perish. Her cold gaze doesn’t waver, and the king trembles. Nevertheless, he orders Aeng-cho to be locked in a well.
Unsurprisingly, the officer entrusted with this task is a Jae-kyung lookalike. Tsk. This man is always siding with the evil people in authority. He sided with the mayor in the case of Haum construction’s Mount Onju development project, and now this? Yeah, I know Joseon Jae-kyung is just a doppelgänger, but my point still stands. And speaking of doppelgängers on the side of evil, we also have Garden Man — who looks even more sinister with his Joseon beards. Aigoo.
Aeng-cho in the well reminded me of Hong-jo in last week’s pit, and as always, Mu-jin is the one to rescue her. He tells her that the concubine promised to spare her life if she hands over the last surviving spell book. And while Aeng-cho doesn’t trust the concubine, Mu-jin pleads with her to trust him. But when she wakes up the following morning, Mu-jin is gone and so is the wooden box containing the spell book.
On Mu-jin’s way to deliver the spell book, he gets ambushed by Jae-kyung’s lookalike. Officer Lookalike doesn’t give a rat’s ass about Aeng-cho’s curse, after all, what good is a curse if the one who casts it gets dismembered? Gosh! I hate that smug look on his face. It’s Mu-jin vs. a dozen of Lookalike’s men, and try as Mu-jin might, the numbers ultimately win. As Mu-jin takes a slash to his back, Aeng-cho feels it from her shrine. And with the knowledge that Mu-jin is in danger, she makes her escape.
Unfortunately, Officer Lookalike and his men catch up to Aeng-cho as she staggers along the snowy plains, and now we see the all too familiar killing scene in its entirety. Officer Lookalike gives the order to shoot Aeng-cho down, and Mr. Sinister Beards is only too happy to handle the killing. Tsk. “I will do it,” a voice interrupts from behind them, and it’s Mu-jin, looking the saddest we have ever seen him.
A tearful Mu-jin falls into Aeng-cho’s embrace as he stabs her. Why would he kill her when he knows about her curse? There was no way out. Aeng-cho was going to die, and he’d rather kill her like this than allow her to be dismembered. Oh dear! This is some next level kinda love. Mu-jin says he’ll accept her curse gladly. “If there is a next life, let us be happy,” he sobs, as Aeng-cho dies in his arms. Oh, Show, drive the pain further into our hearts with the OST, will you? *Sniffs*
Aeng-cho’s death leads us back to the present where Shin-yu is in critical condition. Naturally, Hong-jo blames herself for the situation and she can neither face his parents, nor stay by his side. Speaking of apportioning blame, Mr. Mayor scolds Na-yeon for getting involved with Garden Man. “I didn’t know he was a freak,” Na-yeon replies, and I can’t even. At the point where he requested the OTP’s clothing items to cast a spell, she didn’t think he was unhinged? I mean, what did she think he was going to do with the clothes? Sell them at a flea market? Smh.
The first thing Shin-yu does when he finally wakes up is to ask for Hong-jo. Screw disappearing from his life in order to protect him. I’m all for putting Shin-yu out of his misery and telling him where Hong-jo is hiding. Then again, maybe that isn’t the best idea since Garden Man is also tracking her down. Garden Man leaves Hong-jo a voicemail to meet him one last time else she’ll never be able to see Shin-yu again, and Hong-jo takes off from her hideout location.
I’m all “here we go again” as a car trails after her cab, but Hong-jo is smart enough to activate a smart watch given to her by the cops. It turns out that the occupants of the car are bodyguards hired by Shin-yu, and I have never been so relieved to see Shin-yu waiting for her. Finally, someone takes their safety seriously!
To Shin-yu’s question about why Hong-jo came out alone, she replies that she thought Garden Man would harm him if she didn’t come. “If I’m so precious to you, why did you want to leave me?” he asks. “Because you’re so precious,” she replies. Shin-yu says there’s no such thing as a curse now since death was supposed to end it all, and he “died.” Yunno, after the stabbing and whatnot. “In this life and in the last life, I love you,” Shin-yu declares, placing Hong-jo’s hand on his cheeks. And I’m not chopping onions, so why am I tearing up?
Jang Shin-yu, the man that you are! Dying to end noble idiocy? That’s a first. And at this point I have to mention how much I love Shin-yu’s hugs. The way he fully leans into Hong-jo’s embrace and pulls her into himself, gives me the butterflies — like he has been doing all week. Anyway, now that we’re done with the angst, I want to see nothing but cute moments as we head into the finale. Our OTP deserves it, and I most definetly deserve it. You hear me, Show? Good! I’ll see you next week.
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Tags: Destined With You, Ha Joon, Jo Boa, Kim Ro-woon, Lee Pil-mo, Yura
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1 lapislazulii
October 6, 2023 at 10:09 PM
I think this might be my favourite week so far, largely because of the past life storyline. Up until this point for me, chemistry between Rowoon & Bo-ah was carrying the love-line more than the actual plot was; I was doing a bit of mental gymnastics through episodes to fill in gaps, read between lines and read into expressions and dialogue. Which isn’t to say I felt like there was nothing before, but previous weeks didn’t feel as palpable as this week did. The full past life story did wonders to make the love between Shin-yu and Hong-jo feel really real. It was shot, directed and acted so beautifully, I had my bets placed on Mu-jin being under a spell but it was even more tragic that he did it because they’d both been backed into a corner. Having the full reveal of the past-life plot also really helped bring the pain and desperation Shin-yu and Hon-jo felt too. I was kind of waiting to see how well (or not well) they’d carry out the past life stuff, because that’d be the make or break point for how well the star-crossed lovers trope would end up translating into the modern setting. Suffice to say, I had my doubts, but they did spledidly 👏
Was the noble idiocy idiotic? Were there about a dozen plot holes, including to do with the gardener-stalker-killer being able to roam around to commit crimes & evade the police so easily? Yes and yes and there’s a bit more left to be said about how supporting characters have been written, including Jae-kyung, as well as how the plot has been structured so far. But this story has always been about Shin-yu and Hong-jo for me, and a drama that’s much more about feeling than thinking, so on those fronts I’m very much satisfied and entertained. I will say on the point of noble idiocy, it was kind of stupid but I totally understood Hong-jo’s flawed logic and honestly I’d have done the same so for once the trope didn’t annoy me as much as it usually does.
Will be interesting to see how all of this wraps up next week! I, like you @unit, am also hoping for nothing but OTP cuteness (or at least a good serving of cuteness to make up for lost time) in our final two episodes!!
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lapislazulii
October 6, 2023 at 10:16 PM
OH & yes the chase through the palace in the past life also immediately made me think that scene a few eps back when Shin-yu chases Aeng-cho/Hong-jo vision through the palace!!
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DancingEmma
October 6, 2023 at 11:09 PM
@lapislazulii: I’m not in the mood to do a long comment so particularly appreciate your points as they resonated with me.
Just one gripe and one query. I wish Hangjo wasn’t such a damsel in distress as it became tedious after a while. I’m careful not to even come close to victim-blaming but I didn’t want her to be constantly be saved by men.
And, @unit, did you use ‘rizz’ as a shortened version of charisma or you meant his flirting game?
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lapislazulii
October 6, 2023 at 11:24 PM
I'm not going to lie, I've been lukewarm about Hong-jo from start till this point (I think the most invested I was in her character alone was when Shin-yu was being a jerk and I felt very sympathetic for Hong-jo's predicament) so the damsel in distress thing didn't even register till you pointed out but I totally agree there. Felt like this week finally showed us a bit more of her actually doing something though rather than just reacting - i.e. when she decided to go MIA and then decided to go to the park to confront killer gardener by herself (yeah ironic that this little bit of stupidity is where I was like 'yeah go girl! you're doing something at least!!').
And also your question on the word rizz has actually put me into a bit of a tailspin because I've used the word a lot to refer to flirting/being charming but never thought about what it actually means or it's origin -apparently it is a shortening of the word charisma! The more you know!! 🤯
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lapislazulii
October 6, 2023 at 11:26 PM
I think I'm interestingly like yes 😍 for Hong-jo and Shin-yu but only when they're together - I'm way more invested in the couple than I am in them as individuals 😬
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Unit
October 7, 2023 at 12:44 AM
The rizz is and all encompassing one. Charisma, charm, swoon, flirting game... 🫣
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DancingEmma
October 7, 2023 at 2:09 AM
Thank you @unit!
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Seon-ha
October 7, 2023 at 5:06 AM
I remain lukewarm about Hong-jo, but have deep affection and admiration for Aengcho.
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lapislazulii
October 7, 2023 at 5:11 AM
Same! Honestly maybe they did a little too well with the past-life story because I desperately want to see the full drama version of it now....
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Enigmah
October 7, 2023 at 8:46 AM
She is not damsel in distress, she doesn’t need saving by men as she was able to survive alone for many years….she would hav been safer in her house than shinyu house, the new environment is reason she was confused what to do..also she alerted police when she had to go meet, she is brave enough to fight for her love and doesn’t mind to sacrifice herself if that means safety of others..
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Saerintz
October 8, 2023 at 7:49 AM
Totally with you.
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vienibenmio
October 7, 2023 at 7:16 PM
Well said, I totally agree
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🌸 Seeker 🌸
October 10, 2023 at 6:03 AM
"The full past life story did wonders to make the love between Shin-yu and Hong-jo feel really real."
So true. Very beautifully expressed. The past life story indeed made the present day otp relationship do much more meaningful.
Hoping for a happy 😊 ending with smiles all around.
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2 Elinor, Team Glasses team co-captain
October 6, 2023 at 11:05 PM
Once past-Jae-kyung showed up with the hard eyes and the armor and the headband, I couldn’t really see anything else, so it’s a good thing I took these notes first:
I think the central mystery of this show is: Why is Hong-jo so stupid? Was she dropped on her head? Also, CALL 911 FIRST, YOU IDIOT!
Even though HJ has repeatedly shown us how gobsmackingly dumb she is when it comes to personal safety - I mean, 'foolhardy' would be a big step up - I still didn’t believe she had gone to meet the murderous Garden Creep alone, in the dark, in an isolated area after all she’d been through. I expected the police to show up and for her to help try to capture him, but nooooo. I’m not convinced she actually used the smartwatch to summon the police to meet her there - it looked to me like she just checked it - but even if she did, she’s still alone in the dark, presumably with a guy who could stab her in a split second lurking nearby. She admits to SY that she *went there alone because she thought Garden Creep would be there.* I guess I’m the dumb one for thinking there is any bottom to the pit of the character’s stupidity. Come on, writers, do better by your FLs.
As @vienibenmio has pointed out, HJ was smarter in her past life, and far more appealing as well. Her character has really taken a nosedive in the past few episodes, from babytalking and cutesiness to an extreme lack of common sense. I would have been yelling at the screen if I cared enough about this show, but as it was, I was muttering and hitting pause a lot. The past life is written so much better - but only for the leads, and not for past-Jae-kyung. It's grating to see him smirking at the prospect of seeing Aeng-cho torn to pieces, although that's possibly more Joseon-accurate. The other past people are just stock characters. It’s beautifully filmed, though, and the story finally fills in lots of gaps and brings in some emotional resonance.
Is Garden Creep using a Tracking Spell? It was obvious from the camera angles when HJ was sitting outside at the country house that someone was watching her, but was it only Shin-yu who found her (how?), or did Garden Creep, too? He’s too competent to be real. I’m guessing Na-yeon helped him get into SY’s apartment building, though.
As for hugs, I think I’ve identified the problem: Jo Bo-ah is doing it wrong. She needs to adjust her posture, reach up to him, put her arms around his shoulders instead of his waist, and lean her torso backwards a little to acccommodate his height, instead of standing perfectly straight and making him hunch over her. That would be a natural reaction even if she wasn’t participating very much in the hug. Rowoon is the one who ends up looking awkward but she’s not giving him anything to work with. Also, my autocorrect wants to call him Wowoon.
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lapislazulii
October 6, 2023 at 11:17 PM
Wowoon sounds unbearably baby-talk cute omg 😂
That's also very true about past life Hong-jo being more interesting than present life version - yet another modern drama (and the second Rowoon drama lol) where I'm like, high-key I'm more invested in the past-life Joseon era story so why couldn't we get more of that or a whole drama just of that hahaha
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lapislazulii
October 6, 2023 at 11:36 PM
*like unbearably cute baby-talk (brain is not functioning today eek)
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lapislazulii
October 7, 2023 at 12:19 AM
also that's a lie, technically this is a third Rowoon drama where a past-life storyline was more interesting than present because technically in Extraordinary You both timelines were interesting but past was more engaging by a touch.
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indyfan
October 6, 2023 at 11:25 PM
LOL. *Wowoon* That's how I see him at times. 😍 Perfect!
I like your posture suggestion. Another one from experience: He has to hold JB so her head is tucked under his chin. When they kiss, JB gets on her toes and tilts her chin up. That also deals with consent. (You don't get on your tippy toes for a man you don't wanna kiss.) Rowoon, don't rely on your PDs henceforth. You're so damn tall and your leading ladies so tiny, keep Beanie tips in your pocket.
I liked child Aeng-cho the best, then the adult AC, followed by the pre-love Hong-jo (who had a few good moments), and last, last, last, the current HJ, for whom love has erased all strength and smarts. I am assuming/hoping she'll get some of this back in the finale.
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Seon-ha
October 7, 2023 at 5:13 AM
When Aengcho threatened the King (in such a marvelous cameo by Park Byung-eun), I was transfixed by the power of her convictions and her voice. I wanted SO MUCH of that for Hong-jo. I don’t see it coming though, and find that deeply frustrating.
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Semma Vetti
October 7, 2023 at 7:12 AM
And we got the full benefit of Jo Bo Ah's large beautiful eyes in that shot (cgi bloodshot, but still beautiful)
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KdramaKdrama
October 8, 2023 at 6:45 PM
I've always had a problem with their hugs! I agree, Sin yu should be standing up straight, hugging Hong Jo's head to his chest, with his chin somewhere above her head. Their current hugs with SY bent over even leaves some space between them
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sonai
October 6, 2023 at 11:35 PM
I agree about how the past storyline has brought the show back on track! Finally we got to see the original connection between Hongjo and Shinyu, and lots of what had been hinted at throughout the last episode finally fell into place. Since @unit already pointed out the parallels between both timelines (the reverse stabbing situation; the pit/well where she had to be saved from), I also have to comment on the sad past life that was given to Jaekyung. 😬 Sure, I agree he looked badass in his soldier/guard getup, but did they have to make him flat out „evil“? There is literal backstabbing, self satisfaction when thinking about dismembering someone using bulls (lest ye be cursed), all motivated by a monetary reward (or land)… Huh. There seems to be no other connection between past Jk and the leads than this. This really felt a little lazy… While I also think it was presented like this for shocks and awe, and to draw a sharp line between how kind and sweet he was towards Hongjo in the present timeline.
He made up a bit for that very first encounter with Hongjo there, which I couldn’t get over for a long time. And I suspected him being fishy, suspiciously moving into her place etc etc etc. Now I hope all of this is resolved with the past timeline’s evil twin, and present Jaekyung won’t go on taking bribes and being pulled deeper into the shady business that is the mayor’s political career.
Other than that I also agree on the tiring nobel idiocy plot and lack of sensible decisions considering self preservation by Hongjo. *hard eye roll* I sure hope she will channel more Aengcho energy from now on.
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indyfan
October 6, 2023 at 11:46 PM
Yeah, I wished they'd left JK out of the flashback. Why the need to villainize him further? We get it, he's 2ML. We love SH already. I agree it might be to make us believe he's going to work with the mayor for a bribe because he did something similar in his past life. But it wouldn't fit in with JK's characterization in the present life so I expect this is a misdirect. (Do I expect too much?)
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Seon-ha
October 7, 2023 at 5:15 AM
Could you elaborate on the work the word “further” is doing here in this sentence for me, Indy? 🥹
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hacja
October 7, 2023 at 7:14 AM
Re: Rowoon's hugging awkwardness. As I've said, I'm exactly Rowoon's (listed) height and my wife is exactly Jo Bo-ah's height, probably a little shorter. And @elinor, you are unfairly blaming Jo Bo-ah for Rowoon's persistence in defining hugs as being cheek to cheek.
Now, I know everyone has their hugging preferences, but I have never felt compelled to put my cheek next to my wife's when we do a standing hug. In fact, hugging her with her head to my brawny chest allows the full body contact that in my personal opinion, is the appealing thing about a romantic hug. Also, heads can still touch, even though my eyes are not level with hers, because I can incline my head without hunching over like an orangutan.
Now, it could be that Jo Bo-ah is to blame because she did not want full body contact with Rowoon, but that's a different matter!
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Elinor, Team Glasses team co-captain
October 7, 2023 at 7:56 AM
Excellent point - but I'm still gonna say they both fail at geometry.
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mom2kidsdog
October 7, 2023 at 12:13 PM
' ... not want full body contact with Rowoon'?!?! Don't be ridiculous!
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JillofAllTrades
October 10, 2023 at 4:30 PM
" Re: Rowoon's hugging awkwardness. As I've said, I'm exactly Rowoon's (listed) height and my wife is exactly Jo Bo-ah's height, probably a little shorter. " - I am more than a foot shorter than my husband. And this weird thing about making hug a cheek to cheek affair every time is not something most couples with height differences work with. And when you are shorter you get to hear his heart when you hug him (K-drama writers, are you reading this?)
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Seon-ha
October 10, 2023 at 6:46 PM
Wow! Swoon. I’m tall enough that the other person would have to be close to seven feet tall for this geometry to work out for me. I’m officially now sort of bummed about that!!!
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Kurama
October 10, 2023 at 11:34 PM
Actually, Won Ji-Ah said Rowoon's heart was making a lot of noises and Park Eun-Bin said she could hear his heart very strongly and she could feel the sincerity of his character for a sad scene.
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mom2kidsdog
October 7, 2023 at 12:10 PM
I cannot agree with you more about HongJo's personal safety insanity.
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ar_arguably romantic
October 7, 2023 at 6:09 PM
Both HJ and SY were hanging in that isolated spot for waay to long after SY dismissed the bodyguards. I don't get what HJ thinks the garden man would ask for and that she could offer up to stop him from hurting SY? Garden man wants her. And if she's not willing to have sex with or marry that creepy stalker, then she should not meet him.
I have to say that Shin-yu is also a bit dumb with suspecting garden man was in his parking garage and just going around investigating.
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🌸 Seeker 🌸
October 10, 2023 at 6:05 AM
"Wowoon"
I ❤ it even better than Ro-swoon!
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3 Semma Vetti
October 6, 2023 at 11:27 PM
Loved this week, except for randomly showing JK in the past. HJ has been known to show occasional glimmers of intelligence, but mostly she falls victim to the holes in the plot. A rabbit would have a better sense of self-preservation, but well a rabbit is not a drama FL. Sigh.
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lapislazulii
October 6, 2023 at 11:35 PM
"She mostly falls victim to holes in the plot" brilliantly said, great line 😂 👏 and agreed, the JK in the past was both something I expected (because he's the SML) but didn't expect (because they didn't hint at it before at all so it felt random), but they've kind of messed up his character arc in general I think and that's something I'm like torn on delving into - one part of me is like, if I really start thinking about the flaws then that's just opens a whole floodgate but also this doesn't feel like a drama that's written to be taken super seriously so should I even bother? Will maybe have an incoherent essay incoming on this topic after the finale I guess 🤷♀️
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Semma Vetti
October 7, 2023 at 12:07 AM
Thanks, @lapislazulii 😁
I also feel somehow the editing or something is patchy... we seem to be missing coherence in parts.
But overall, it is addictive!!
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4 indyfan
October 6, 2023 at 11:41 PM
I know it wasn't the show we signed up for, but I felt the Joseon flashback could have been the better drama (like many others it seems). It was beautifully shot, with a compelling storyline with believable stakes, and characters we could truly root for. And lovestruck Rowoon in an indigo hanbok? Ah, angst never suited a man so well. It did feel choppy and rushed tho because they squeezed it in one episode while letting the present time plot drift the past several episodes. Sigh.
I continue to dislike many of the secondary characters. I hope we don't get a redemption arc (we will) for the SH's father, who added victim blaming to his long list of shortcomings. Why are JH's colleagues still allowed any screen-time? Ugh, that "housewarming" party. And what is Mr. Gong up to?
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sonai
October 6, 2023 at 11:46 PM
The shot on the bridge during the fireworks festival was surely appreciated - him in hanbok looking all flashy. Now the belted coat of present Shinyu on that same bridge during the same fireworks festival makes *even more sense*. 😆
Beautifully shot indeed!
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indyfan
October 7, 2023 at 1:09 AM
HopefulRomantic and Seon-ha called the modern version a coat-bok. So clever.
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Semma Vetti
October 7, 2023 at 12:02 AM
aww, please, can we have a general amnesty?
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indyfan
October 7, 2023 at 1:07 AM
Well, I thought lovesick Rowoon in #13 was wonderful. I also enjoyed the #14 flashbacks. I even liked JK, both supporting HJ and rolling his eyes at her self-flagellation (I’m with you brother!). Could we be coming out of the saggy middle and end on an upswing. Dare I hope?*
I must be a wee bit addicted as well cos I plan on watching next week’s episode as soon as it drops. If you plan to as well, shall we do a live(ish) watch fan wall post?
*I have a bad feeling about the gardener tho…
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Semma Vetti
October 7, 2023 at 9:10 AM
@indyfan That is a lovely idea - it drops at 11 ET (I am in the US eastern time zone) ... TTY in your fan wall then!
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indyfan
October 8, 2023 at 2:20 AM
Great! I'll create a fan-wall post a little before the episode drops, with a warning so we can feely talk and spoil away in the replies.
If anyone wants to join us, please do. And let me know if you want me to tag you. "See" you Weds!
Semma Vetti
October 10, 2023 at 8:40 AM
@indyfan Lets try both... again subject to site stability...
🌸 Seeker 🌸
October 10, 2023 at 6:14 AM
I was getting a bit of a drama freeze (cold feet basically) for this week's episodes ... I so want it to be all smiles. But if you're live watching ... I will join in after you finish. 😀
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indyfan
October 10, 2023 at 8:31 AM
Cool. Not sure how/if a live(ish) watch fan wall post will work, but 🤞🏽
@semmavetti Do you want to do both #15 and #16? Or just #16? I'm fine with either option. If the site loads better tomorrow than today, that is!
lapislazulii
October 7, 2023 at 12:22 AM
Same Indy - indigo hanbok gave black cinched waist coat a run for its money & also I've completely zoned out of caring about secondary characters so I'm not even registering them at this point 🤷♀️
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indyfan
October 7, 2023 at 12:54 AM
Yet he’s wearing mostly pastels in his next sageuk. Normally I cheer men wearing pink or whatever color they want, but dark shades are the way to go on Rowoon esp. if they keep plastering him white.
Zoning out the secondaries is a smart move. They’re even messing up the Ma-Go loveline (afaik).
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lapislazulii
October 7, 2023 at 2:35 AM
Yeah on the same page, all for pink and pastel menswear but RW's colours seem to be navy-indigo and/or rich jewel tones even
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Kurama
October 7, 2023 at 6:47 AM
I don't agree. He looked fantastic in bright colors in The King's Affection. But it was better with duo of colors.
Gikata
October 7, 2023 at 11:26 AM
To bring a bit of all the color theory talks from MY DEAREST recaps, with the way RW rocks total black he's clearly Winter - aka highest contrast color type. Which means the best color combos on him would be those with medium-to-high contrast level as well. That's why pure pastels from his new drama don't really work - there is little to no contrast, it's all equally pale. Had he wore some much richer color to liven up that blossom pink hanbok, for example, that would've been an entirely different story.
DancingEmma
October 8, 2023 at 3:18 AM
@gikata: I love your colour palette talk. Really interesting.
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DancingEmma
October 8, 2023 at 3:24 AM
@gikata: Would a fuchsia hanbok have made a difference or it should’ve been a sour cherry red?
He also looks wonderful in deep blue shades.
Semma Vetti
October 8, 2023 at 7:21 AM
Rowoon in a fuschia hanbok!! Feels!!
Gikata
October 10, 2023 at 4:16 AM
I think any of dark reds (yes to sour cherry!) or perhaps purples/chocolate browns would compliment the pastel pink well. Like it doesn't even have to be fabric detail specifically, just contrasting belt and gat beads would do. NGM sported TO DIE FOR burgundy and silver hanbok in one of MD episodes and I think RW would look fabulous in such colors as well.
Fuchsia is likely a little to cool and bright for his skin tone, but depends on lighting, makeup, filter and whatever ofc. Deep blue is much better for sure. And probably dark emerald too. Someone once described Winter people's color palette as "shades of expensive gemstones", and as a Deep Winter myself thanks to that reference I NEVER had a trouble of deciding whether a color would suit me or not again.
🌸 Seeker 🌸
October 10, 2023 at 6:24 AM
Taecyeon killed with a fuchsia overcoat in Heart ❤ Beat ... er, did I say "killed". 😭
**hides behind sofa to sob again**
indyfan
October 10, 2023 at 8:33 AM
@seeker Oh yes, Taec owned fuchsia in 2023. Just don't think about anything else with that fab memory. Keep it pure.
🌸 Seeker 🌸
October 10, 2023 at 8:53 AM
@indyfan
Good advice. 👍
There is something so pure and wholesome about Heart ❤ Beat that makes it unforgettable.
We were swooning over Taecyeon much before Rowoon.
🤣
Gikata
October 7, 2023 at 2:14 AM
I feel like RW has been long overdue for a full-time tragic romance sageuk with very little humor sugarcoat all the angst. He can emote, he looks nice in hanbok (huge understatement, I know), his sageuk speech isn't gratingly bad (at least for my ears, feel free to correct), he's a good crier and bloody heavy melo doesn't feel awkwardly too heavy on him, tho I'm struggling to properly articulate why it's like that. Just a guttural feeling, you know. And he's going to enlist soon, right? After his return all those youth fluffy sageuks would be out of the question anyway, unless his management doesn't have a clue how to built a grown ass man's portfolio.
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indyfan
October 7, 2023 at 2:54 AM
Yes...and we get him in another fluff piece next. Oof. Post enlistment, I'd vote for a full romance melo as well. But then I love that genre. When will you return My Dearest? 😂
I wouldn't mind it laced with some awkward humor tho, a la Shin-yu spelled into love. However, no laconic jerks, pls. He didn't pull that off. So maybe a ML who hides his trauma behind Joseon-era dad jokes instead of being an ass?
(And welcome back. Been a bit.)
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lapislazulii
October 7, 2023 at 3:05 AM
Building on this quasi-fanfic we're basically constructing - I know during DWY pre-release promo discussions it sounded like people didn't want to see a goofy Rowoon character again but highkey I did and now especially do post-DWY because he plays goofy really endearingly. So goofy Rowoon with Joseon-era dad jokes in a full tragic melo angst sageuk mayhaps for the manifesting circle? He can do a turn from goofy to heart-broken and sombre courtesy of the tragic melo-ness in the plot maybe (nothing crushes one's soul more than seeing the light dimmed out in the seemingly cheerful and happy go-lucky character thanks to The Real World doing its thing).
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Gikata
October 7, 2023 at 3:22 AM
I'd like to see him playing non-yangban for starters. I know that boy has looks and aura that scream EXPENSIVE, but it's getting old already. There were other classes in Joseon, you know. He won't make a very convincing starved peasant for obvious reasons, but maybe merchant or half-noble or commoner with birth secret... Something less flashy and silk-robed so his acting can be the focus instead of his looks.
Thank you. It's been only a week, but felt much longer somehow.
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DancingEmma
October 7, 2023 at 4:31 PM
Well, he is a Gangnam boy and if stereotypes prevail, we are in trouble. However, I hope he is not a jerk in RL, is compassionate and doesn’t vote for RW Governments.
Semma Vetti
October 7, 2023 at 8:30 AM
This exact ask, including the confused/love spelled Rowoon who is a walking green flag, lotsa melo with some comedy - sounds like Yeonmo/The Kings Affection to me, no, @gikata, @lapislazulii, @indyfan?
Though, ofcourse, PEB is the ML and FL there, I thought Rowoon held his own there. Lots of lovely closeups and the physicality is much better handled.
More like it? ANY time, sign me up!!
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Gikata
October 7, 2023 at 9:48 AM
I watched YEONMO and while it was kinda watchable, to me it felt like the show couldn't decide whether it was a heavy, serious sageuk about court machinations/conspiracies or very silly youth cross-dressing romcom. I've seen too many sageuks that mixed those conflicting genres better. Like the amount of times leads (both dressed as men) made out with abandon OUT IN THE OPEN IN THE FREAKING ROYAL PALACE made my suspension of disbelief cry bloody tears))) But that may be a personal thing, some people were satisfied enough with just the chemistry/acting alone.
Still prefer for him to go 100% heavy, if only to see whether he'll be able to pull it off or nah.
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Semma Vetti
October 7, 2023 at 10:57 AM
Ok, I felt like the rom and tiny bit of com is only a bit of relief for the fear and machinations... But yea, I mean it does require a huge suspension of disbelief...
And yes, Rowoon not doing even a bit of puppy might be a change... He will need to come back from enlistment to try that out, possibly.
Gikata
October 7, 2023 at 11:12 AM
@semmavetti it's always been like that with sageuks, yes, but I think older dramas knew perfectly how to lure viewers in with a false safety of fluff and humor before dropping heavy angst on our poor heads while currently made shows largely lost that sense of a balance. YEONMO would've make two pretty good separate dramas with its drastically different flavors and genres, and I've never understood why it had to be the flawed mashup of both instead. Multigenring is truly the plague of nowadays kdramas, just pick one story and develop it with care!
DancingEmma
October 8, 2023 at 2:09 AM
@Gikata: But we suspended our disbelief about so many things including a petite woman convincingly(!) passing as a man, marrying a woman and for said woman not having the slightest doubt for a while, etc so why would the kissing scenes in a supposedly secluded spot be the most implausible things? LOL
Gikata
October 8, 2023 at 2:49 AM
@dncingemma with all respect to PEB's impressive acting skills, her physical attributes (and glaring contrast with RW's in-your-face masculinity) never let me fully believe in her male disguise, but actresses RARELY succeed at it so I've gotten used to willing ignorance. The existence of a madly smitten royal wife was already pushing it, true, but that still could be explained away with a bit of mental gymnastics. The extreme lack of basic caution to avoid being caught in 4K tho? Nope, I've never seen anything of this scale in any cross-dressing romance before - and I've seen MANY! - so it was really THE sore spot for me. Sorry)))
P.S. That doesn't mean I wasn't appreciating all those brains-off kisses outside of context. Trust me, I did^^
lapislazulii
October 7, 2023 at 3:27 PM
Ngl I tried to watch King's Affection when it was airing and couldn't really get into it at the time - memories of what I did see are hazy at best. Maybe this is a sign to give it another go now!
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Gikata
October 7, 2023 at 4:11 PM
I liked the leads - separately as well, but they made a very strong OTP with a surprising lack of usual BS trope bingo. If only they didn't telegraph their forbidden romance so much... Reminds me of the quote I don't remember the source of: "It was supposed to be a huge secret, so OF COURSE everyone knew!" (c)
DancingEmma
October 7, 2023 at 4:24 PM
@lapislazulii
Please do! I loved PEB and Rowoon together and apart. The male second lead was so lovely too.
The progressive bit that I love and will not spoil for you is what I think you will like too.
I will even rewatch it along with you if and when you feel like it.
Semma Vetti
October 7, 2023 at 7:17 PM
Go for it! If only for PEB and Rowoon.
Semma Vetti
October 7, 2023 at 7:32 PM
And yea, the second leads, PEB's mixed harem, supporting characters - lots of good stuff. Worth trying.
Galakura
October 9, 2023 at 7:23 AM
It's amusing to see rw had many updated photos of him n peb in his ig for TKA filmings, and I see none between him n jba. Bts dwy shows how great their interactions were, so I do wonder why no uploaded photos with jba.
Kurama
October 9, 2023 at 7:48 AM
@galakura Rowoon doesn't upload a lot on his IG. PEB uploaded a lot, so I guess he did too. JBA doesn't upload neither. It's funny it's the PD who uploads the most pictures of the set and the actors.
Galakura
October 9, 2023 at 8:04 AM
@kurama
Im glad at least rw still updates regularly, latest one was 4 days ago. Meanwhile, jba nim.. her latest upload was a month ago. Lol.
These two have become my new interest.
I watched their bts and interviews, I like how rw complimented her for being ageless when the host showed photos of her previous drama roles.
5 Kurama
October 7, 2023 at 1:00 AM
Finally, we know what happened in the past and it was tragic. They loved each other during their whole life. Their destiny was so strong that in the present, not only them were reunited but the 2 people who got them killed and cursed too. At least, this time, it had an positive outcome because the curse disappeared when his heart stopped few seconds. The creepy Gardener is clearly a villain, for Jae-Kyung, I think he will play the Mayor and Haum Construction to make them fall with the help of Shin-Yu. The thing I like in this drama is Shin-Yu is very competent in his job and he likes it, we can see him in action during the whole drama, the same for Hong-Jo.
Hong-Jo's reaction was frustrating but again I think it was logical with her character. She felt guilty for the lost of her mother and father. She thought if she endured the bullying and didn't leave the school, her father would be still alive. So it's not surprising she had the same reaction with Shin-Yu. If she can't touch his face because everytime they are reminded how she was stabbed and how he was cursed and it makes him suffering, it's not really romantic. But in both case, she's the reason he's hurt, if she touches him or if she leaves him, he's in pain. He was so happy to see her when he was drunk 😥 But even in this moment, Shin-Yu still can make me smile, when he told her he needed her to blow on his wound to get better 😂
There were a lot of parallels :
- The chase in the palace
- The stabbing
- The hand on his face/her face
- The bridge scene
- The well/pit scene
I really liked how the scenes were filmed for the past. The snow made them so tragic and romantic. I liked their clothes too.
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Seon-ha
October 7, 2023 at 5:24 AM
There were so many parallels that the well/pit scene even had a parallel in Beyond Your Touch this past week!! 🤣
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6 jerrykuvira
October 7, 2023 at 1:01 AM
I loved this Joseon backstory more than the present time story. Aeng-cho interests me more than Hong-joo does.
If the writing likes, let them write Jae-kyung as the devil's reincarnation in the past life, I don't care. He still remains my guy to the end. I just hope they don't use this week's version of past-life Jae-kyung to portray Jae-kyung in the finale. That'll be weak and very lame. Why the need to include him in the first life either. Garden Man clearly almost remembers Hong-joo in a past life, I'm guessing that's a major reason why he's been so drawn to Hong-joo. Plus he's skilled in shamanism so I'm sure he knows the connection they share in the past. Jae-kyung remembers nothing, nada. So why? Why decide to make a baddie out of him when he clearly doesn't share a connection to the past life besides his face, unless they're is a plot twist coming that says he knew "it was Agatha all along."
Mu-jin and Aeng-cho's love is gripping, solid, everything.
Sincerely, Garden Man should be locked up somewhere as quickly as possible. Why is he so competent.
And Hong-joo's workmates. I don't know who I should be more angry at - Hong-joo for being a pushover once again, Jae-kyung for accepting their housewarming request or the ever annoying duo for being sus as usual. I'd have appreciated it if Hong-joo just barked back at them for disrespecting her in her house. This is her home, and they shouldn't bring their toxicity with them while in her premises.
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Seon-ha
October 7, 2023 at 5:26 AM
Jerry!! Team JK!! I’m with you, man, all the way.
Also, truly, why IS Garden Center Guy so competent?
I think it was @elinor who noted on the Fan Wall that the workmates are there as foils to demonstrate how Hong-jo simply must play the good girl. I gather she’s about to stand up (at least) to Na-yeon, but I think for most of us, that’s too little, too late.
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Gikata
October 7, 2023 at 9:11 AM
Forbidden black magic that is lazy writing, of course!
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ar_arguably romantic
October 7, 2023 at 6:22 PM
I'm going to be mad if we end the drama with Hong-jo finally getting to be friends with those two officemates who haven't shown any other redeeming facet of themselves.
It is so outdated to create mean girl characters just to show off how nice the heroine is.
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Kurama
October 7, 2023 at 6:44 AM
I think Jae-Kyung case is interesting. Shin-Yu and Hong-Joo's love was powerful and she was a powerful shaman. But not everything has to be about destiny. You could have been a bad guy in one past life and now you are someone else and you're a good guy.
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mom2kidsdog
October 7, 2023 at 12:23 PM
I think JK will end up being a good guy in this kdrama ... we've already seen how disgusted he is with his father's money issues, so I think anything resembling greed (by the Mayor, the Haum chaebol, et al) will be a huge turnoff for him. Also, I think he truly loves HongJo, and a man who sees HongJo's appeal can't be a villain, right?
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Kathryn51
October 7, 2023 at 2:55 PM
" I just hope they don't use this week's version of past-life Jae-kyung to portray Jae-kyung in the finale. That'll be weak and very lame. Why the need to include him in the first life either. . . . Jae-kyung remembers nothing, nada. So why? Why decide to make a baddie out of him when he clearly doesn't share a connection to the past life besides his face, unless they're is a plot twist coming that says he knew "it was Agatha all along."
Shaman Eun Wol has thrown out some hints. "He's honest and strong. He's beside you." and "There's one more person who remembers the past life" (if it was the gardener, then Eun Wol is nothing but evil for not warning them).
When Hong Jo said "please will you come" and the box unlocked, she was thinking of KJK. And then he came. When someone was stalking her at the park (pre-festival), he was there.
I still think there's a good chance that KJK's role has always been to protect HJ - something he clearly did not do in the past.
And here is the one of the biggest plot holes of all: If SY NOW remembers past life KJK, then why isn't he moving heaven and earth to separate her from him - he seems to be trusting him.
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bbstl 🧹
October 7, 2023 at 5:39 PM
You make me realize that one thing to be grateful for is that the two horrible co workers were NOT in the past life 😂
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7 Seon-ha
October 7, 2023 at 1:19 AM
C’mon DWY! Let’s do this! I’m remaining hopeful that this drama is going to end in a TSM (Totally Satisfying Manner). We have two whole episodes to go, and the only thing left to do is tie up something like 10,000 loose ends—I believe that’s only like 10,000,000 loose ends in Korean won. I won’t even start to list these dangling plot points. I bet we could all each easily name one, and still not overlap with one another. But, it’s gonna be fine!
For my money this week (whether in dollars or won), episode 13 was mainly filler—with enough Jae-kyung to hold my attention, but not much more. However (하지만), boy howdy, did my man really shine come episode 14. JK looking concerned…JK looking worried…JK looking mystified about the fact that Hong-jo is utterly needlessly behaving like a martyr…JK telling it like it f’ing is…JK looking caring…JK looking wistful…JK caring that Shin-yu is cared for…what a guy!!!
OK. OK. Focus, @attiton, focus. To the main couple. They’re in it to win it now. I felt it was a little disappointing (simplistic) that it had to be that Shin-yu “died” to shed the curse. I actually would have preferred the root cause to be the moment—marked by the visual symbolism in the stairwell when the lights flickered—when he apologized to Aengcho. He’d already clearly been stabbed in the same place he’d stabbed her, and, of course, the parallel gesture of the bloodied hand to the face was being (inversely) re-enacted. Rather than his “death,” then, I felt it was this penitence that was more affecting and effective.
I heard him apologizing for the quite insane decision Jang Mu-jin had made to take someone else’s life, presuming that one particular assumed future was set in stone—and then choosing to actually set a different future in stone but on his own terms by forcibly taking someone’s life. This is an overbearing and misguided attitude, I’m afraid, that we know contemporary Shin-yu has expressed in a past episode through a series of words that also show up in the trailer for next week—“You don’t know what’s going to happen to you…I know because I’m going to do it.”
Nope nope. It’s gonna be fine. Everything’s fine. TSM. Incoming.
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lapislazulii
October 7, 2023 at 1:30 AM
"I actually would have preferred the root cause to be the moment—marked by the visual symbolism in the stairwell when the lights flickered—when he apologized to Aengcho." -> I really, really like your version a lot!! Didn't even think of it like that but now I can unsee what could've been 😭
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sonai
October 7, 2023 at 7:01 AM
🤔 Grand. I absolutely did not notice that the breaking of the curse was based on him being “dead”. I kinda got hung up in the fact that he told Hongjo “I’ve seen it all” (while being “dead”), and thus concluded that learning about or rather accepting their past lead to the curse being lifted. Too easy, right? 😅
Seon-ha’s preferred explanation though makes more sense to me, too. Because… him “dying” and then “being alive again”… isn’t that also some kind of reincarnation, and the curse should still be going strong? But yeah. I’m not asking for logical reasoning here. 😂
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Seon-ha
October 7, 2023 at 7:13 AM
Yes, I don't need logic either--that'd be a fool's errand!!
I do truly think, though, that penitence and then forgiveness would have been a stronger, more impactful, through line here than death and rebirth. Forgiveness, to me, is the most quintessentially human and fundamentally loving of all our intentional actions.
Mu-jin made an error when he killed her. It was the wrong decision--indeed, it was a curse to take it upon himself. I can't say that I feel that Shin-yu really did ALL the work of penitence, but that scene in the stairwell was good. It was good.
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Gikata
October 7, 2023 at 3:03 AM
Uhm, no? There wasn't much to ASSUME in that particular situation - had MJ not stab AC to death himself, she'd be 100% killed by the bad guys anyway since they were surrounded and neither of OTP had the strength to keep fighting for their lives. There was no miracle to hope for either, no one was interested in helping them. And in those people's hands her death totally would've been way more horrible and humiliating, they even said as much - past!JK was actually LOOKING FORWARD to her execution by dismembering since "palace life has very little entertainment". Plus she was a defenseless beautiful young woman, so who could've guarantee that after she's captured all those men won't do more nasty things to her just because there was no one to stop them? Curse was somewhat protecting her LIFE, yes, but not her safety or dignity. What MJ chose to do was horrible indeed, but there was no better choice at a time. That's why AC wasn't angry at him, so his/SY's apology while bleeding to his clinical death on that stairwell was not really for her or HJ - it was for himself because he FELT guilty - for failing to protect his beloved better and avoiding this horrible situation altogether - not because it was his fault LOGICALLY. The only reason why AC wasn't trying to die an easy death by killing herself was because she HOPED that one of her chasers would do it and get cursed in process, girl was willing to suffer to get a bit of revenge. MJ, in other hand, had sparing her of an additional pain as his top priority. I understand that concept of mercy kill is probably a very controversial and hard to swallow for modern audience, but that was just that. Life was extra hard back then and people had to make much tough decisions on a daily basis. Do we really have moral ground to judge them for that?
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Seon-ha
October 7, 2023 at 5:04 AM
Um, yes. There were other choices, not least of which was to say something first or talk or hand HER the knife. I don’t need the plot to have gone this way, and I certainly do not require historical accuracy. He took her life because it would have made him feel bad to do otherwise.
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Kurama
October 7, 2023 at 6:40 AM
I don't think letting her stab herself or being dismembered were better choice at all.
He didn't do for himself. Any solution would have made him feel bad because he was loosing the only woman he loved.
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Seon-ha
October 7, 2023 at 6:44 AM
I think we're all going to have to agree to disagree on this one. For me, there is no world where taking it upon yourself to decide to kill someone else--that is, without them proactively asking you to do it--can be done for any reasonable reason.
I am not saying there was a way this could end in sunshine and flowers. I'm saying that there were definitely better solutions that the writers had available, allowing Aengcho her agency and Mu-jin not to be, frankly, a "noble murderer" as if there could be such a thing.
Kurama
October 7, 2023 at 7:20 AM
@attiton
I agree that letting her choose would have been nice. But the situation wasn't really ideal for it.
Stabbing herself when she didn't have strength would have ended with more suffering for her, she couldn't really ask the bad guys to get back to the shrine to hang herself neither...
So her choice would have been the torture to save Mi-Jin's from the curse, he chose a fast death for her because her death was inevitable.
Seon-ha
October 7, 2023 at 7:25 AM
@kurama To be the most clear I can be, I did not want this scene to go any other way. I don't think it probably could have.
What I am emphasizing is that he murdered her. Plain and simple. And he murdered her because of his fear of how she would feel (and how he would then feel), not because of anything she said or did.
That is why I feel that penitence and forgiveness is the more important theme here than death and rebirth.
jerrykuvira
October 7, 2023 at 11:20 AM
The writers took away Aeng-cho's agency when they invented a way to circumvent getting inflicted by her curse. I rolled my eyes immediately that statement was made, and it only made me hate the bad guys even more - the unpleasant smile and smirk that they plastered on their face as they finally got a way to have their bad intentions carried out.
Creating that clause just took away Aeng-cho's position as a powerful shaman and I'm not going to be forgiving on that. Why make her all powerful if you're going to dishonor her, in the meanest and undignified way possible - dismemberment. That immediately strips her of her agency as a powerful shaman caught in the middle of a palace political nonsense.
Gikata
October 7, 2023 at 7:46 AM
I'd LOVE to live in a simple and fluffy black and white world where death is always bad, there are no things worse than that and circumstances are always 100% clear for everyone to make the best and calmest choice possible even under life-and-death pressure, but alas...
P.S. Let's not forget that by Joseon beliefs suicide is super sinful. I've also read somewhere that death by dismembering was considered soul-killing as well (aka no rebirth whatsoever after that), so make of that what you will. I personally am in the "if there is even a tiny chance for survival, grab it" team, but that was just not the case here. Should he ask her "wanna me to stab you?" perhaps first? Maybe. But I bet she'd say no because consequences were too grave for him and she'd never allow that... And they'd just keep arguing who should sacrifice themselves for the other in circles until bad guys got bored and killed them both (or until he faints from blood loss and they'd be able to drag her away). The end.
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Kathryn51
October 7, 2023 at 2:21 PM
I DID believe (after watching earlier episodes) that it was part of THEIR plan - so I was a bit disappointed as well that they continued to show that Jang MEN as the only ones who think things thru because both Joseon and current day HJ seem to be badly lacking in smarts.
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Seon-ha
October 7, 2023 at 2:30 PM
Absolutely! This would have been an entirely different (and more satisfyingly empowering) story if they had planned this outcome together in her hut prior to going to sleep that night, for example.
Semma Vetti
October 7, 2023 at 9:05 AM
@attiton I'd like us to agree to disagree on this... I felt MuJin did the dreadful math of necessity here. Joseon-in-dramaland is a place where individualistic choices are actively (as in off with their head) discouraged. MuJin tried to do a runner with her, but he was outnumbered and cut about. If she were to be caught, and he is forced to admit he cannot save her, she would be pulled apart by bulls. If she kills herself, she would be landed with the curse. So he makes the least evil choice, which is "gladly accept the curse" and send her off himself. That way, he is tying their destinies together further.
And I think the redemption is in the MEMORY of that choice, that it was NOT a choice at all and he loved her past and present.
As to why he had to "die", well, he seems to remember the past only when he is out of it, in the hospital or sleeping. SHE seems to remember when she touches his cheek, like she did in the park-of-almost-suicide towards the end.
So now that they both know, I think the curse is done.
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Seon-ha
October 7, 2023 at 9:22 AM
Yes, we can agree to disagree.
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Gikata
October 7, 2023 at 9:22 AM
All of this. There was no good or morally right option there, unfortunately, they were backed into corner. One of them HAD to make some decision FAST and accept its dreadful consequences because otherwise they'd lose their timing and bad guys would've take away all the little agency they still had left - to make EVEN WORSE choice for both of them.
Still not sure how exactly mechanics of the curse and it being lifted work, but it makes sense that HJ doesn't need to be knocked out to see the past - after all she has some powers in this life as well while SY doesn't.
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8 Olivedreams
October 7, 2023 at 2:02 AM
I’m in the minority here…the backstory of the past life just isn’t that compelling for me and hella depressing. Now that’s over please give us 2 last episodes of couple cutesy and some real kisses please. Some passion is definitely needed to satisfactorily complete this drama.
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Dylan [JooJoo couple, fighting!]
October 7, 2023 at 8:59 AM
Fr I watched the entire flashback like, can we get back to the main story no
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9 RenOIshi
October 7, 2023 at 4:08 AM
I must admit I wasn’t looking forward to the ‘past’ storyline but now that I have seen it, I loved it. Acting wise, emotion wise, story wise. It all made sense. Rowoon did really well in the death scene, I teared up a bit :(
Now for those annoying stuff…
1. I don’t understand why the creepy garden guy was not arrested. Are the police really this bad?
2. Why would any sane person walk to a dark leafy isolated place to meet with e potential MURDERER?
3. The dad sucks.
4. The past dad sucks harder.
5. Where was the bodyguard idea before?
6. This should have been up there in the list…why did she have to stay away? Like why?
So what are we expecting in the next 2 episodes?
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Seon-ha
October 7, 2023 at 5:33 AM
1. He was arrested before. Na-yeon sprung him. Right now, he’s on the lam.
2. They wouldn’t, without an utter lack of self-worth and a persistent and real death wish.
3. Yeah.
4. At least he’s in historical character with the amount of power he had.
5. The cutting room floor.
6. Because our OTP does things “to help each other” that actually only ever “hurt each other,” because they are only ever trying to make their own selves feel good, not putting themselves in the mental headspace of their loved one.
Team JK for life. The man has freaking empathy. Sign me the hell up.
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Gikata
October 7, 2023 at 7:51 AM
All his so called empathy is reserved for a girl he wants to win over lol. When he did not like her, he was cold, patronizing and straight up RUDE. Not to mention him nastily using knowledge of SY's illness to trash talk his love rival. So much for a nice guy)))
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bbstl 🧹
October 7, 2023 at 5:54 PM
It’s been driving me nuts that no one, esp SY with all his money, has seen fit to arrange protection for HJ 🤦🏼♀️ until finally now.
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RenOIshi
October 7, 2023 at 8:25 PM
Exactly!
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Kurama
October 8, 2023 at 12:07 AM
He did before. He bought her the pepper spray, had bars installed on her windows, asked for the security camera.
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RenOIshi
October 8, 2023 at 4:25 AM
She probably didn’t have to carry around a pepper spray if she had bodyguards around 😶
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Kurama
October 8, 2023 at 5:35 AM
Yeah, but always having bodyguards following you when you're a civil servant, it's super weird.
I mean it's a pretty extrem measure to protect her from a Gardener and not an assassin...
He saw in the episode 8 or 9 that the widow didn't have bars, the next episode there were new installed ones.
The camera warned Jae-Kyung about the creepy Gardener and the bars prevented him from entering in her house.
It's not like he did nothing.
bbstl 🧹
October 8, 2023 at 8:37 AM
You’re right although that only protected her in the house (and not from her own tendencies to wander off alone into the woods, for example).
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10 missvictrix
October 7, 2023 at 6:05 AM
*Still waiting for a real kiss to occur*
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Unit
October 7, 2023 at 6:28 AM
*Waits with you*
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Kurama
October 7, 2023 at 6:36 AM
Me too!
If this continues, I will have to watch She Would Never Know again :p
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missvictrix
October 7, 2023 at 6:48 AM
not a bad solution..... mwahaha
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Gikata
October 7, 2023 at 9:26 AM
And real, non imagined night of a wild kinky femdom passion as well, just a kiss is nowhere near enough at this point!
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11 SooHa
October 7, 2023 at 6:40 AM
The paragon of swoon-ess LOL .. I can’t agree more
I’m a bit dissapointed about how they deliver the past life, it’s interisting but it feels choppy *sigh
I still thingking Hong jo is reckless about handling the garden man and that noble idiocy
That snow scene again took my breath away with amazing OST, their expresion really showing the sadness and the angst.
All we need is our cuteness couple getting their happiness to end the show.
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12 Dylan [JooJoo couple, fighting!]
October 7, 2023 at 6:42 AM
While most ppl seem to have enjoyed this week, I think ep. 14 kinda broke me. Here are the greatest hits compilation of me live-tweeting? live-blogging? through the pain:
Wow, Joseon!Dad is much worse than Present-day!Dad could ever dream of being. I thought Present-day!Dad potentially kimchi-slapping his future DIL was beyond the pale, but look at this inbred aristocrat scum casually threatening to sell his son’s lover into sexual slavery…
(I think I have an idea who Joseon!Dad is trying to marrying him off to… it’s Joseon!Nayeon, isn’t it?)
Aristocrats ☕️… If that nerd Robespierre and Danton and Hebert and Babeuf had focused more on sending these bluebooded ***** on a date with Madame de la Guillotine - instead of each other - the world would be a better place… Like?? torturing and blinding an old woman?? Just so his son marries the girl daddy thinks is best??
I do think Aeng-cho didn’t have to make too much up in her breakup speech tho. let’s be realistic, you can’t have a romantic, happy ending in the mountains while being hunted by daddy dearest.
God I hate monarchs… the king and his concubine…. Two more people who need have a 1-on-1 with the National Razor…
For a shaman that's "lowlier than an animal", she's got drip 🥶🥶💯💯🗣️🗣️ seriously that white hanbok goes hard
Imagine being so hot, swoony and romantic your crush forgets the time your dad melted her coworker's eyes into goo
They really did the Joseon version of "teach your partner how to shoot as a way to get some skinship in" trope... gotta respect it. Nancy and Jonathan did it better tho.
Mujin’s dad, this random concubine, Joseon!Jaekyoung, the king, his torturers.. actually you know what, Aeng-cho has an even sadder life than Hong-jo, no comparison.
Joseon!Ro-woon’s horse after his rider got sniped: 🐴 Wow, even Joseon!Jaekyoung is an asshole.
they could just shoot Joseon!Rowoon down at any time, but then we wouldn't get a badass fight scene. And guys, you have surrounded a wounded man… this should takes seconds…
I still don’t understand Mujin’s goal here? Is he bringing the box to the queen? Is he gonna hide it??
Jang Mujin, baby girl, you might be glad to accept the curse but your descendants may feel differently… imagine dying at the age of 35 just bc your many times great granddad was really into this pretty chick
In a drama with a sexual predator CEO, a serial killer and Jae-kyoung, Nayeon is possibly the worst of the worst…. Throughout her alliance with Stabby McPsychoface, contrary to her lies, she knew was dealing with a freak... and what was the endgame anyways? Was the plan to have him stalk and murder Hong-jo? So you can marry a man you're already cheating on?
His mom continues to be the most wholesome and most level-headed person in the entire drama, but we all expected that. Meanwhile Sinyu’s dad... bitch instead of blaming Hong-joo, ask about the involvement of the woman you were about to marry your son to... just to...
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Unit
October 7, 2023 at 7:22 AM
"...imagine dying at the age of 35 just bc your many times great granddad was really into this pretty chick"
😆😆😆😆
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ar_arguably romantic
October 7, 2023 at 6:34 PM
I feel like Jang Mu-jin could have just stayed single and not inflict this curse on his descendants. If I were him, I would have been so pissed at my dad that I would refuse to continue the bloodline. No descendants to do the ancestral rites!
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jerrykuvira
October 7, 2023 at 10:35 PM
Yeah! Just go the Duke of Hastings way.
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Dylan [JooJoo couple, fighting!]
October 7, 2023 at 9:05 AM
Rant so long, it couldn’t even fit in one comment.
But yeah Sinyu’s dad...about to marry his son off to a deranged lunatic just to make the company’s line go up 📈📈📈
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13 Miju
October 7, 2023 at 6:50 AM
This week had me trying really hard to keep this show in the switch off brain and just enjoy category because noble idiocy and angst are not what I signed up for. And it was especially hard to get through here because the reasoning was so flimsy even Jae Kyung voiced it. And had me wishing the Joseon timeline could've been longer because that was primed for angst from the beginning and it delivered. Along with wishing that Shin Yu and Hong Jo could've gotten more depth and gravitas to their relationship as much as their Joseon counterparts; and some of their personality traits. Aeng Cho was so much more spunkier and had SO SO SO MUCH MORE self preservation in her than Hong Jo, because GIRL! What were you even thinking even contemplating opening that door right after you were attacked through a window grill??!! Ugh the need to scream at her stupidity just broke me away from the dissociation that makes this drama enjoyable.
The ever bloodied winter Joseon cinematography was beautiful and I was surprised that the concubine wasnt a Na Yeon lookalike with they way they were popping up.
I too sincerely hope next week I can just mindlessly enjoy without feeling the need to write a rant on kdrama writers and their need to make us question the female lead's intellect every now and then.
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🌸 Seeker 🌸
October 10, 2023 at 4:55 AM
K-drama FL ≠ 🧠
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14 hacja
October 7, 2023 at 7:48 AM
Last week I made the obvious point that Shin-Yu's curse as represented by the bloody hand was a metaphor for sexual dysfunction, given that the bloody hand appeared when he was experiencing desire, and the curse prevented him from any sort of serious physical intimacy with Hong-Jo and required that he sleep with her wearing heavy sweaters.
Now, after these episodes, you are probably saying-"Hacja, your interpretation of Rowoon's curse was utterly convincing, but what does the bloody hand mean to Hong-jo?"
Well, I'm glad you asked! For Hong-jo, the bloody hand is the legacy of the oppression suffered by women in the Joseon era. Her several attempts to stroke Shin-yu's cheek, a common gesture of affection but certainly not one that you try more than once if your lover shied away from it, are an attempt to get Shin-yu to recognize her as an equal in the relationship. Since Shin-yu still can think of that gesture only in sexual terms, a reminder of his "curse," Hong-jo must abandon Shin-Yu.
Is this truly noble idiocy? I think not! It is Hong-jo acting in her self interest. That is why she is open to new advances from Jae-Kyung.
When, finally, the attitudes of the horrible Joseon patriarchal oppression "die" in Shin-yu, then he is open to cheek stroking from the person who is now not just a sex object but a loving equal!
I predict the concluding episodes might see Rowoon out of the heavy sweaters and into bed with Hong jo dressed a little more appropriately for certain activities, which of course in kdramas still means fully clothed, but in an athletic kit of shorts and a t-shirt.
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Seon-ha
October 7, 2023 at 8:12 AM
Nah, no shorts and a t-shirt…It’s the ever-present, effective, but tired trope of very small women wearing very large men’s oxford button-down shirts, and nothing else.
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hacja
October 7, 2023 at 8:39 AM
I stand corrected!
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Elinor, Team Glasses team co-captain
October 7, 2023 at 8:41 AM
I'd actually cheer for the button-down because it's sexier than being muffled up in his oversize sweaters and track pants, and is also a clear tell that she got completely undressed in the interim. Sadly, I predict we're in for one more round of SY telling a fully-clothed HJ she should go to sleep or else he'll Do Things.
@hacja, your interpretation of Rowoon's curse was utterly convincing, but the analysis of HJ's take on the hand may be reaching just a bit. Sometimes a bloody hand is just a bloody hand. The problem I had with the reverse-handsy-facey thing at the end of 14 is that it meant SY had to make his love declaration with two hands awkwardly placed close to his mouth. Whoever is doing the blocking for these scenes needs remedial instruction.
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Seon-ha
October 7, 2023 at 8:54 AM
"Reaching just a bit." I get it, I get it. 😏
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hacja
October 7, 2023 at 9:04 AM
It has occurred to me that Rowoon's character is bothered by the thought of sex because he doesn't really know what sex is. Maybe he imagines it involves "Doing Things" with heavy sweaters.
Certainly, the two office workers have a 12 year old's conception of sex. Meanwhile Na-yeon seems to think sex is something you do while you are trying to marry someone else. In fact, the only people in the whole drama who seem to understand what the nature of sexual relations the two older office managers. So maybe this show is a dramatic rendering of a sex education film?
As far as the hand in front of the mouth--when you have a powerful moment to convey, and the actors are fully engrossed in the emotions of the scene, then that must take precedence over cinematic considerations!
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Gikata
October 7, 2023 at 9:34 AM