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Nevertheless: Episode 9 Open Thread

Our heroine might have thought she was suffering enough already, but it turns out untangling yourself from a complicated relationship is a complicated process. Between trying to understand her own heart, dealing with her two suitors, and wrestling with her art, it seems our butterfly might have just hit her nadir.

 
EPISODE 9 WEECAP

Is it wrong to say that I want this drama to end badly? After Na-bi and Jae-un first acted on their impulses, there’s been nothing but uneasiness and opacity between them. We have had an entire drama of them dancing around each other — Na-bi delicately refusing him, and Jae-un persisting. Na-bi struggles to subdue her attraction to The Wrong Guy, and we’ve gone along with her for the ride. Some have enjoyed it; some have not. But now, in our penultimate episode, we might finally be leaning into something decisive.

We may never know what Jae-un truly meant by his butterfly one-liner to Na-bi because when Episode 9 opens, we have shifted to the next scene. The two are inside sitting at the bar where they first met, and we have an excruciatingly long scene of listening to them talk while we look at their backs. It’s meant to help us feel the coldness and disconnect between them (and contrast with their first encounter there). It does that, but it also removes us emotionally to the point where it almost feels like we’re just hearing them read off lines. It’s the opposite approach to the scene we’ll get at the episode’s end (more on that later), which goes 10/10 on emotions and drama.

As Do-hyuk continues to keep up his relationship with Na-bi, Jae-un starts to feel threatened. Whether this is because he truly cares for her, or just because he knows he’s losing his grip on her — well, we may never know that either, because we so rarely see inside Jae-un.

But this week’s episode just might be the exception. I noted two specific moments where we heard from Jae-un via the authenticity of his inner monologue. Once when he was telling himself that Na-bi was lying about something; the other was the closing line of the episode where he tells himself, “I lost Na-bi for good.”

I was so pleased to get some insight on Jae-un that I might have gotten a little too excited about it. We still know so little. Are these thoughts of his a part of his gameplay, or are they the genuine words of his heart? Does he truly want Na-bi, or is this just the first time his master plan is falling apart around him?

A threatened Jae-un means he must turn on the charm again, and for every centimeter that Do-hyuk moves forward, Jae-un feels he has to take a mile. In the landmark scene of the episode, Jae-un is clinging around Na-bi with this promise to collect his stuff from her apartment. He’s content to wait at the door for her to bring it down to him — until he sees Do-hyuk around the corner. He makes an excuse to go in with her, just for the pleasure of torturing Do-hyuk. Ugh, Potato Boy’s face when they disappear behind the door.

That scene might have made me loathe Jae-un all over again, but really, the bulk of this episode did a great job of making us think that maybe, just maybe he’s changing his ways. Jae-un is always watching Na-bi, lingering around her, absorbing her disappointments, witnessing her lowpoints, and the intensity on his face does give us reason for pause. He seems to be feeling for her — or, at the very least, he’s conscious of her emotional state. When he tries to get sexy with her again in her apartment and asks her to date him, it feels like he might be turning the corner.

This brings me back to my opening point: I really, truly want an unhappy ending for this story. I do not want this to be a story about the goody two-shoes that transformed the heart of the bad boy. I do not even want them to part ways amicably. I kinda want some serious mayhem and crimes of passion — but perhaps where we land at the end of the episode is the best we are going to get.

Jae-un is sitting in the pouring rain waiting for Na-bi to get home. Their exchange quickly turns combative, and as ugly as it is, it’s refreshing in that it’s one of the few times they’ve actually communicated. Jae-un admits he went into her apartment that night because he saw Do-hyuk. Jae-un also admits that he asked Na-bi to date because he thought that’s what she wanted to hear. It’s ugly and it’s revealing. Na-bi leaves in tears; Jae-un stands unhappily (and photogenically) in the rain. It’s their final interaction of the episode.

With all that drama out of the way, our other couples fare far better this week. The cohabitation hijinks between our T.A.s continues, and these two are so wholesome and adorable. I expect them to be a couple by the end of the show next week. Similarly, Sol and Ji-wan embark on the new phase of their relationship. A heart-to-heart between Na-bi and Ji-wan finally gives Ji-wan the confidence she needs to move forward, and when she confesses to Sol, it’s like Sol has transformed into a new woman.

Finally, there’s Bit-na and Kyu-hyun, the couple that’s long been a foil for Na-bi and Jae-un. Despite more awkward editing and camera angles, I was pretty satisfied with the cuteness of their re-coupling. I don’t like Bit-na anymore than I did before, but I believe that Kyu-hyun does, so that works for me. Again, I wish his presence was permitted in the drama a bit more; his conversions with Jae-un provide an insight we need on Jae-un that we don’t get elsewhere. Even though the lines were still being delivered, it’s remarkably hard to get behind them when they’re coming from a blurry shape in the foreground.

A few final thoughts as we head into the drama’s final week. As much as I’m ready to pick up this drama and chuck it out the window, the most gratifying moment for me was where Nabi admits that she’s in the position she’s in because of a choice that she made. Telling Jae-un point blank that she regrets their relationship might have been the stronger moment for the plot, but the fact that she is taking ownership for her actions made me like her more than I thought I could. She’s seemed so constantly overcome and swept away by circumstances that this was a refreshingly grounding moment for her.

Also, I’m glad to see a little more focus on Na-bi’s art this week. Her stalemate is meant to translate into her personal life and be a metaphor for that, but really, I’m just glad to see these art students doing art! We haven’t seen them in the studio for a while, and I’m beginning to wonder why they’re spending all that tuition money. What does Jae-un make (besides tacky butterfly bracelets) that earns him so many raving reviews? What is Bit-na doing with all those high heels? What about Sol, Ji-wan, Kyu-hyun, and the rest? I would like to see everyone’s final projects lined up next week for a full critique. Please and thank you.

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Everyone treats this a Na-bi's story but the more interesting story arc is Jae-un. The popular smooth talking player who discovered his peers secretly mock and ridicule him behind his back for being a horn dog, who doesn't know how to articulate genuine emotion so is dismissed as 'frivolous' by the person he has growing feelings for. Jae-un is much more isolate and unsure himself in episode 9 than he was in episode 1. This series has been a tale of his undoing.

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Would be interesting if we got to see his POV in a second season, though I know this is not possible.

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I don't like any couple in this drama. But I'm happy if Sol and Kyu-Hyun are happy.

For Na-Bi and Jae-Un, the only scene I liked with them was the last one. They were finally honest with each other.

I think Nabi should end up alone at the end of the drama, not to punish her, but it looks like she needs some time to find what she wants.

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The series transition from 19 rating to 15 rating has been precipitous. Even Na-bi's (rather bad) nude sculpture has been desexualized. Na-bi's and Jae-un's relationship has grown stale because its 15 rated now. Her relationship with potato boy is entirely chaste. I'm frankly a bit worried about Sol and Ji-wan. I'm not entirely sure Ji-wan has thought through the relationship progressing beyond its 15 rating.

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Thanks @missvictrix! Yes, for me the final scene was the bit I had loooooooong been waiting for (and had almost given up on): actual communication. Each week of this drama, I have been increasingly frustrated that not a single character really knows how to say what they're thinking openly. Our main pair are a disaster, but everyone else is hardly putting them to shame. Even our co-habiting grads keep dancing round the issue of actually *saying* what they want. Grrrrrrr. So, a moment's ugly honesty and straightforwardness from Na-bi actually felt cathartic (although I'm still in the dark about what Jae-eon really wants). In it to see how it ends now, but these characters are not ones that I wish to remember.

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I expect a parting of ways. They'll meet ten years later at an art museum, he'll say, eyes glassy, as always, "Do you want to go and see the butterflies?"

She stares at him for a long, long beat, then, she'll ask, "Why?"

He smirks. "Just because."

She'll think and think and think, and finally she'll say, "Yes."

The rain starts to fall as they step onto the sidewalk, he'll offer her a herbal satchet, she'll say, "Nice. Where did you get it from?"

"America," he answers, after staring at her silently for twenty seconds.

The rain starts to fall, and a flock of butterflies come flying up to him, and say, "Hey, you're back. Where have you been?"

"America," he says, after staring blankly into space for about thirty seconds.

The end.

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LOL. Yes. That's perfect. I actually forgot to watch this episode. I'm now wondering if I'm missing anything except the irritation, having read the recap and comments. But I've been trained to be diligent, so after Devil Judge, Nevertheless, here I come. Yuk.

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I have no tolerance for creepy right now so I skipped this one even though I'd like to it for the novelty.

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I watched 17 mins last night and had to go to bed. It wasn't grabbing me, and it was starting to sound and feel like Waiting for Godot.

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LT could teach Na bi a thing or two. Indifference is the best weapon when it comes to unwanted admirers. Right, @leetennant?

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She should launch herself at him with enthusiasm.

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@leetennant I like how easily you slip into these comments, LT. It's a gift.

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irresistibly

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Herbal satchet from America. Rofl.

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LOL. Perfect.

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The fact that some people online are still trying to paint Jae-eon in a positive light after the end of this episode is mind-boggling lol. What a manipulative creep. He creeps me out even more than webtoon Jae-eon. I always thought his apartment looked weirdly like a murder cellar and I'm not convinced that he's not capable of murder after this episode, ha. Dude needs major psychological help.

But anyway, SOLJIWAN! This drama treats this couple so naturally that I think people don't realize HOLY CRAP WE HAVE A CANON HAPPY LESBIAN COUPLE IN A MAINSTREAM KDRAMA HOLY CRAP. This is SUCH a huge deal. 2021: Year of the Lesbians! I said it before and I'm saying it again!

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No he is not like that... He is a simple guy who is not good at expressing himself.

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I can't wait for this drama to end. Everyone is a walking red flag even potato boy. I guess he gets away with all his lies and manipulation because he is the sweet second lead.

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This week is the dismantling of Jae-un, he looks very lonely now. His inability to really open himself up to other people and feelings leaves him stranded alone on his little island. He is falling short again in his attempt to regain Na-bi and just cannot bring himself to say what needs to be said, that he likes her and that Seol-A is not his girlfriend. Even worse, Na-bi is horrified by his manipulative cowardice.

In contrast, Do-hyuk really shines for me in this episode. Last week I did not have much hope for him, but it looks different now. I am impressed with the direct and open way he explained to Na-bi that he was jealous seeing her with Jae-un. He does not play games with her and has a lot of inner strength. Na-bi is clearly drawn to this strength, clarity and openness, she shares her worries with him and admits to being dropped from the exchange program (not shared with Jae-un). The umbrella metaphor says it all, she walks home all safe and dry, protected by Do-hyuk's umbrella. Once she meets Jae-un, the umbrella is knocked to the ground and she gets horribly wet.
Will there be a happy ending with Na-bi and Do-hyuk? Well, not sure about this (sadly). I am glad there is only one more episode, the drama really needs to come to an end now!

I really wish that Kyu-hyun had not been edited out so much. He is an important character in the drama and it only looks weird.

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"The umbrella metaphor says it all, she walks home all safe and dry, protected by Do-hyuk's umbrella. Once she meets Jae-un, the umbrella is knocked to the ground and she gets horribly wet."

I'm not so sure. Flowers need rain to grow, assuming she's the flower, and JaeEun is the butterfly. Also, the umbrella might be the protection she needed from being exposed, but without it she's forced to reveal her thoughts / emotions.

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Nice interpretation. Both Na-bi and Jae-un need to grow emotionally. If rain is the metaphor here, I am all for it.

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Not surprised that Nabi didn't tell Jae Eon about her not being accepted into the exchange program. They're not exactly on good terms and she's trying to distance herself from him.

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That rain scene. Oofff. So finally we see Jae Un’s facade cracking. He is frustrated. His charm is failing. I liked this episode. I like that Nabi is seeing things more clearly.
But please, ep 10 better end well. By well, I mean Nabi is single and working on her career :)

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Initially this drama reminded me of Ariana Grande's Side to Side. Now it reminds me of Selena Gonez's Same Old Love.

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I love Han So-Hee. She’s rocking this role. Loved her lip colors: Very alluring. With a less talented cast, the show would have been a big flop. Kudos to everyone involved. For me, this is a masterpiece.

Again, as some comments above have already mentioned, the main couple’s relationship is indeed dysfunctional.

Loved Sol and Jiwan’s couple. They’re natural and highlights the fact that love has no boundary. If the love brings out the best in you and in the other person, go for it.

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I agree regarding Han so Hee's acting chops. So different from TWOTM.

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She was so good in the rain scene.

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I thoroughly enjoyed this episode. How many people need to point out to NaBi and JaeEun, particularly NaBi, that being honest, forthright, revealing your emotions, are all integral to a healthy relationship? The art professor's scolding of NaBi about hoarding her emotions to the detriment of her artwork was 'spot on'. There was a real contrast there between JaeEun and NaBI .... JaeEun hoards his emotions but at least reveals them in his artwork, hence all his 'awards', whereas NaBi is closed-off altogether.

Ugh, ... I had to stop watching though and take a break when JaeEun grabbed NaBi's wrist and made her drop her umbrella. I thought the writers were going in the 'JaeEun's an agressive, manipulative a-hole' direction. I then watched the remainder, and realized JaeEun is just really immature. He put DoHyeok in the same position JaeEun had been in ... jealous over NaBi with another guy. I also appreciated JaeEun pointing out to NaBi that their physical relationship should not be 'news' to anyone, not even DoHeyok. And finally, when NaBi shares her 'regrets', she forces JaeEun to realize that a solely physical relationship is not necessarily worthwhile.

Perhaps the series will do a 3 yr time jump like some others have done, and JaeEun and NaBi will meet again when JaeEun and NaBi have both matured emotionally.

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Yes, the scene with the art teacher was very interesting. Na-bi is easily scared and indecisive, considering her reputation. I would like to see her becoming more confident. It was regretful that she mainly saw the teachers advise as a 'telling off'.
Jae-un has never been bothered much about what others think of him, because he keeps an emotional distance to avoid getting hurt. It gives him security and control. He does not need to keep that distance to his artwork (where he is in full control, also).

There is very little humour in the drama, but I had to laugh when Na-bi gave relationship advise to Sol. At least she had the insight to admit that she is not good at relationships herself.

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That scene with the professor was pretty interesting, especially when she said that she thought Jae Eon and Nabi would be able to create something amazing together. He did motivate her last time though...I was hoping that motivation would continue once they were on better terms but...alas.....

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Also, super-frustrated that the entire emphasis seems to be on JaeEun changing his ways, but I think NaBi needs to change as well. She has never once told JaeEun exactly what she wants. His response, 'I thought that's what you wanted!' in the final scene was perfect.

NaBi seems more often like the 'coward' than JaeEun. She seems to still be 'ashamed' and 'humiliated' so much by her ex-lover's art exhibit regarding her sexuality that she can't disconnect from that in order to connect emotionally with JaeEun.

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My half-joking comment through the series recaps has been "Na-bi is the worst." At least this episode she acknowledges it. Her greatest concern about Do-hyuk is that he will realize she's not as nice a person as he believes she is.

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I always look forward to your comment thinking that it might change along the way. LOL.

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This goes back to the lack of communication and both of them just assuming that both were OK with their "relationship." Nabi did practically say that she wanted more when she broke it off with him in ep 5...but they're both so thick that it went over his head...and then when Jae Eon was basically confessing to her that he fell for her at the museum...that completely went over her head too. lol sigh.

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I also can’t understand why NaBi doesn’t realize how JaeEun feels about her. Is this why JaeEun laughed at NaBi’s comment about him selling the piece, saying it was “funny“ when she says it? Clearly, JaeEun is an award-winning metal sculptor, and he’s given NaBi two beautiful pieces of his artwork. It’s also clear he puts a lot of emotion into his artwork, and giving those pieces to NaBi speaks volumes, at least for me, particularly when you could see he was so happy when making the last piece for NaBi.

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He's never said it. He knows what she wants to hear, he doesn't say anything about SA and he doesn't say he has romantic feelings about Na-Bi. The pieces he gave her could have meant anything as far as she knows.

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In one of the first episodes, Bit-na told NaBi that JaeEun doesn't 'do extra things' like remembering she likes the lime drink. If NaBi has no idea what his gifts mean, she could ask JaeEun, or even Bit-na.

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Yeah, if only! Lol. This is drama world where logic does not exist because then we would not have a drama to watch 🤣

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@mom2kidsdog
For every little thing he did that could mean romantic feelings, he did many others that meant he wanted to remain casual. She never asked how he felt but she did break up for this reason and he knows it. They made a game of not giving the other what the other wanted but they always knew. Jae-Un wanted the unconditional devotion he got from the other women and NB wanted conventional romance, both knew it was a gamble.

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@lixie

Yeah that was the issue with Jae Eon, it was always one step forward and two steps back. I don't know if it's because he just doesn't know how to have a real relationship because he's never had one or what.

I also don't think he anticipated actually feeling something more for Nabi so he doesn't know how to deal with it

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In the instances you mentioned about giving her gifts, I can see why Nabi wouldn't think much of them because how is she to know he doesn't give gifts to others? He is known to be super flirty and friendly with girls so I understand her skepticism in that aspect, but like when he practically confesses to you??? How can she not realize he is talking about her especially when he says it right after she mentions how she doesn't have good memories of that art museum or whatever. He said it was snowing, that it was a private exhibition for some artist, and a girl was standing in front of a piece for a long time. I guess she just entirely blocked out that memory since it was so traumatic to her...or she just completely tuned him out when he was saying that to her idk. I guess she could think it was just a coincidence, but I would still pause and wonder and read into the situation...as we know Nabi has been known to do before and has even said to herself when sharing her inner thoughts with the viewer. I guess at that point she was just done with Jae Eon and didn't care and no longer trusts anything he says to her

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Why would that be romantic? I thought it was very creepy. A complete stranger likes the appearance of someone so much that he calls that love, how creepy is that? Even more because said stranger was very upset when he felt so attracted to her, which makes me wonder if her sadness wasn't part of the attraction, which makes it creepier.

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@lixie
Well, I don't know if it's romantic or not, but people do use that praise a lot -- "fell in love at first sight." Whether he really meant it or not, I don't know, but I just took it as he was attracted/mesmerized/intrigued by her and later develop feelings for her as he spent more time with him. And I can see why you think it is creepy, but if you think about it, it's only creepy if it's someone you don't feel the same way about or are attracted to. It's less creepy after the fact when you're in an actual relationship with that person. I think there are some people who do think it is romantic, though, like after the fact lol

He probably noticed her at first because of her emotional state, yeah.

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Has Na-bi done anything good for Jae-on or even Do-Hyeok or Sol for that matter? Jae-on spent his time with Na-bi on her birthday and bought her something (Na-bi didnt even wish him on his because she was busy running away without notice). Jae-on called the police when he was worried for her safety and regularly creates gifts for her or remembers what she likes to drink. Has Na-bi shown any affection towards him, done anything kind towards him or towards Do-Hyeok who keeps coming to the city and bringing her food, making her a cake. She is just busy playing both victim as well as 'oh I am not good enough' all the time. She is really frustrating. She wants the whole world to guess her innermost workings even when she has the least idea of it. I do not know why anyone would like her or root for her except that she is pretty and that she is the narrator of this show.

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but that line is so weird..

what you are telling her is that you saw her naked body art.. and you saw her disheveled

The way nabi is, if she heard and digested that information, she would instantly think he wanted to sleep with her.. and she did let him sleep with her.. after all she does have a good body worthy of being someone's muse

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But how does Jae-un feel about Na-bi? Even the audience doesn't know. The show deliberately makes Jae-un a shadowy figure whose actions are ambiguous.

Jae-un stepping up his game this episode, saying "let's date" and making that bracelet for her, seems much more motivated by Do-hyuk's presence/threat, rather than Jae-un's feelings for Na-bi.

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"... [JaeEun is] motivated by Do-hyuk's presence/threat, rather than Jae-un's feelings for Na-bi".

Is that true? I feel like JaeEun's actions throughout have shown his consideration / feelings for NaBi: 1) remembering the lime drink; 2) concern for her / calling police for her safety; 3) staying with her while sick; 4) staring at NaBi / EunHan while with ex Seol-a; admitting jealousy of EunHan; 5) making sun-catcher; 6) wearing his hair down even though 'uncomfortable'; 7) turning down numerous girls at flea market when asked for his number / while watching NaBi; 8) kissing NaBi at school bc he wants everyone to know (?); 9) volunteering as her asst; 10) trying to be friends / help NaBi with her art exhibition with metal work; 11) working with her aunt's pottery per their prior discussion about the glazing being 'unpredictable', but leaving @ NaBi's urging; 12) trying though not directly or 'artfully' to tell NaBi he's in love with her / fell in love with her @ first sight; and 13) making the beautiful bracelet.

It's clear to me at least that JaeEun has been pretty consistent in his pursuit of NaBi, and while Do-Hyeok verbalizes AND shows it, unfortunately JaeEun seems to rely on his actions to show he can't give up on NaBi.

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I agree that a great deal of JE's actions, especially in the beginning, were very ambiguous, but somewhere along the way, I would say after Nabi broke it off with him, he and we started to feel that he was starting to show sincerity towards Nabi. I mean, his last line and forlorn look in ep 9 made it pretty clear to us..."I've completely lost Nabi."

I don't agree with all of @mom2kidsdog 's examples below, but a few of them do indicate that JE has/had feelings for Nabi. The calling the police and taking care of her while she's sick (even though this was kind of early on), putting his hair down, helping her with her sculpture, driving all the way to her hometown to see her again, the looks of longing when she disappeared, and even asking her if she wanted to continue kissing when they were at the MT, the not so subtle confession, etc. etc.

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@mom2kidsdog, I totally agree that he is attracted to Na-bi, and those actions are of him pursuing her. He definitely wants her, but I don't see him necessarily wanting a long-term relationship with Na-bi. In healthy relationships, one usually never has to wonder "does he/she like me, or is it just about sex"? In my opinion, Jae-un enjoys the thrill of flirting/pursuing girls, but "is not the relationship type" as Bit-na or someone else said early on in the series.

@Anna, Jae-un is clearly developing some sort of feelings, but are those feelings strong enough to maintain a stable relationship with Na-bi? And perhaps more importantly, is their relationship already sabotaged beyond repair?

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I totally agree with you. They both are in love with each other but they are immature. If he is not good at expressing, she should have proposed him. And why the makers trying to potray that cook as a good guy...and Jae on as a bad guy. Jae on was always there for Nabi whenever she felt lonely. On her birthday, when she was unwell. He is not a bad guy my friend.

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Nabi's too busy talking to her inner voice to even bother to hear/see/analyze Jae-eon.

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That's why the only solution I could think of for them is just to go to bed. They communicate there better. Words always lost their translation to them.

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Jae Eon also is just handling his situation and feelings for Nabi all wrong. He doesn't know what the right way of approaching it is, which is why we got that hot mess at the end of this episode. It seems he was motivated by the wrong things, although I believe the intentions were sincere.

He was lashing out at the end because Nabi was not responding to his actions in the way that he expected, but he doesn't know it's because his methods are wrong... because he's never been in this type of situation before of having feelings for someone, being jealous, and so in turn, he did not know how to deal with that jealousy and lashed out.

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I want an ending seeing her doing therapy. Na-bi reminds me of the "Crazy Ex-Girlfriend" series lead character Rebecca Bunch. She needs to know herself first before getting into a relationship with anyone.

1. She wanted the verbal affirmation, but when he did several times, She doesn't believe it.

2. Give her several handmade gifts to convey his feelings. I'm also an artist. When a fellow artist made a gift for me, I know what I am to that person without asking it. It's clear.

3. Na-bi is the one who requested to keep their relationship a secret also the same person who wants to have him as a boyfriend. when Jae-eon asks her out, she was surprised. Question herself again, if he really means what he said about going out.

Jae-eon on the other hand was not only broken but shattered all over the place. He also needs therapy. He knows what he wants, but has zero idea how to get it properly and gently.

Potato guy, He needs to chill and give Na-bi a space to figure out what she really wants first instead of pushing his personal agenda. Go get yourself a bowl of potato soup and enjoy the rain in the meantime. :)

I’m tired of them both (Na-bi & Jae-eon) and it’s not even real. (-_Q)

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The drama is a small-scale tragedy. The side characters around them are there to represent how the story *could* have gone if the leads weren't so busy self-sabotaging, second-guessing, and listening to the monologue in their head all the time.

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lol yess self-sabotaging. JE screwed himself over this episode. His methods were wrong wrong wrong and he didn't even realize until it was too late. It's like he was like "it doesn't matter HOW I do it as long as it gets me the results I want." Umm no.

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Well said.

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Na Bi truly needs to learn how to comunicate if she wants a relationship,she needs to start from there...I,as a viewer 'em quite frustrated seeing her lack of words,of any mind me,imagine being the other part...
The forever monologue in your head is not comunication nor does the other one read minds to figure out stuff...

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Nailed it. What happens in your head is not what the other person is hearing.

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Very true.

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Which makes me wonder if Jae-on simply is the wrong match for Na-bi. She seems to have no problem communicating her feelings with people she feels close to, like Sol-A and Do-hyuk. The sense of unease she feels with Jae-un however, is preventing her from truly speaking her mind, because she's always hyper-aware around him, and second-guessing his words, actions and intentions.

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In episode 4, there's a scene where Jae-eon is sleeping and Na-bi is doing her assignment. Her inner dialogue is " I can't tell if he's warm or cold, serious or joking," then the next inner dialogue is " We're much compatible than I thought. "

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Haha, I guess I wasnt paying close enough attention in episode 4.
That inner dialogue is is pretty ironic and reinforcing the attachment theory in romantic relationships. From what the show has shown us, it seems that Na-bi is subconsciously attracted to hot/cold men, even if they make her feel miserable. I wonder if that's a pattern she will be able to break.

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The more and more i watch im starting to think that Na Bi is Jae-eon's Love Calamity(like c-dramas Xianxia's call them),when he aks her questions she either gives one,a vague answer,evades or get's mad at it,when he asked her to date the same,she never says anything,the good,the bad and in between and when she doesn't get what she expects she is getting mad,karma comes at u boy as u got your hands onto a poisonous butterfly so it should be a blessing in disguise if u never get it back...Would feel bad for Potato Boy if she marks him in the end i guess...Asked this before but it's beyond me why everyone likes Na Bi so much aside from her looks...
This drama is almost full of toxic unlikable people aside from Sol and Kyu-Hyun.

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I noticed last episode when Jae-un pretty much confessed to her Na-bi didn't even hear him talking because she was listening to the monologue in her head at the time.

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Yep that was a frustrating scene. Um, girl, HELLO he practically just confessed to you, but you were distracted with your own thoughts to really register what he was saying.

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She's always mad at him just like what Jae-eon told her.

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YES! I was cheering when Na-bi finally stood up to Jae-un and gave him that scolding. (As unrealistic as it is that Jae-un pretty much monologued his evil intentions).

Love the umbrella/rain analogy in the final scene. I think the narrative is pretty cleear about which guy we should not root for. That said, this drama constantly keeps me on edge. I'm still not quite sure what's going to happen in the last episode!

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That monologue from Jae Eon was so...OOC to me. He was saying all these ridiculous things and I was just like WHERE IS THIS COMING FROM? Maybe it is because we haven't heard him voice his real feelings before, but I just thought that monologue there was so weird and not very in character.

I am also unsure of how the last episode will go! Just when I thought I had a good grasp on the direction it was heading, the drama throws a new metaphor at me and I'm just like WHAT DOES THIS MEANNNN. For instance, Sol's advice about "maybe the issue is that you're trying to look for an answer" or whatever.

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I was also confused about that advice from Sol. What does it mean??

For Jae-un, I partially thought his honesty came from drunkenness. But my favorite line is when they are talking about him asking her to date, and he says, ‘ohhh, so that’s not what you wanted from me’—implying she was using him for sex. He totally turned it around on her! His ability to manipulate is so under the radar and real.

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Yesss and even kyuhyun's advice to Jae Eon about things not working out when you get greedy...but then he counters that with "just work harder and it'll be fine" so I am just utterly confused.

Yeah, I hated how he tried to play the victim. He doesn't realize that he's in the wrong even though his feelings may have been sincere. The way he went about it makes him seem insincere, but he doesn't seem to realize this or he has now, actually, but the damage had already been done

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The “maybe the problem is that you’re trying to find one” means that you keep on avoiding working on the problem itself and instead looking for ways to cut corners to avoid the whole process.

Instead of avoiding the offer of Jae-eon to go out with him and asking herself again and again if he is sincere, why not do the lift of faith and discover it along the way. What’s there to fear? The answer is yet to be discover when she decided to step forward.

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Most hilarious moment- Na bi giving relationship advice.

Most cathartic moment- Jae un finally being less than perfect

Most heartwarming moment- the smile on Sol's face at the confession

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When Jae-eon asked, "Why did you say that to Seol-ah?" I thought the drama was pulling the webtoon twist where Jae-eon seduced Na-bi out of revenge, which would've been so forced after the writer changed his character 180 degrees. I think we're definitely getting an unhappy ending (which frankly would be a happy ending) because Na-bi seems to be over him, but Jae-eon was sincere when he asked her out. If Bit-na and Kyu-hyun is the parallel of their relationship, then the message of this show is bad girls/bad boys can be tamed.

Na-bi fakes happiness with Do-hyuk like in her overly cheery texts. Even when she told him about the bad critique, instead of sharing her feelings, Na-bi just put on a happy face. Their conversations are painful to watch because they have nothing to talk about.

While our heterosexual couples had bed scenes, our lesbian confession had no kiss and only two hugs. I want to see the reactions of Sol and Ji-wan's friends to their relationship especially Se-hun. Thank goodness Bit-na and Kyu-hyun are back together so we can be done with their story. Editing out Kim Min-gwi was beyond distracting in how Bit-na and Jae-eon often looked like they were talking to themselves.

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That mention of Seol-A was so random. I was like why bring that up now unless you were going to finally tell her that you and Seol-A were not a thing. He was trying to play the victim, I guess. Ugh.

I was like if Bitna can change her ways and communicate, so can you, Jae Eon!! Ughhhh.

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I was scratching my head and trying to recall what he was referring to. I forgot the hair tied up parting shot. Communication course would be a good idea.

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I think JaeEun wanted NaBi to admit she was jealous of Seoul-a’s ‘relationship’ with JaeEun.

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Ohh yess. That could be it

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yes. He wanted Na-bi to admit that she was jealous of Seoul-a the way he admitted to her that he is jealous of the freshman.

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I rewatched the fight scene and I think I understand the comment about Seol-a finally. Na-bi asks why Jae-un didn’t tell her about Do-hyuk being there that night. Jae-un basically says he wanted Do-hyuk to know what kind of relationship they had. Na-bi asks if he lost his mind. Jae-un says ‘I’m just telling the truth like you did’. —right there, he’s talking about Na-bi’s comment to Seol-a that let Seol-a know they were sleeping together.

The scene then moves to Na-bi asking if that’s why he asked her to date and him saying, ‘isn’t that what you wanted? Oh, I guess that’s not what you wanted from me’ (implying she just wanted to sleep with him). Na-bi tries to turn it around on him by asking how he can say he likes her. And he turns it back around and says ‘what about you? why did you say that to Seol-a?’ —He’s referring back to the comment he just made about Na-bi making it known they were sleeping together. If she didn’t want to date him, why did she say it? Just to screw him over?, he asks. And Na-bi says, yes, she did it to screw him over with his ‘girlfriend’ (i.e., not because she was trying to date him).

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Thanks for this breakdown! I definitely didn't understand some parts when I first watched...and even during my second watch I had to pause and think about what they were talking about.

While reading your breakdown, it made me think of that one scene when Nabi confronts Jae Eon about not contacting her after their first kiss and he says "you didn't contact me either." So many parallels in this drama!

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Totally!
Glad my breakdown was helpful. Afterward I thought I might have made things more confusing 😅

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Basically, they mocking each other to admit what they both want with each other, but it turned out differently.

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Yep. That's how I took it.

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Thank you! This is what I came to this thread for. Couldn’t for the life of me understand what they were both saying/implying even after rewatching a couple or times *facepalm*

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Actually, this episode is when I stopped cheering for Jae-un to become a better person that can become a partner for Nabi. He knew that somehow her self respect was connected to Do-Hyuk at least thinking she was a decent person and that it would hurt her to take that away..robbing her the chance to come clean. Oddly, I have no problem with friends with benefits it it suits both. But it makes Nabi feel cheap and dirty so obviously it is not a good fit..and Jae-un knows it too. This showed he still wasn't ready to really care about someone else. Let's face it, Nabi is in relationships too soon as well after major damage to what I gather is already a low self-esteem issue. Now she has had two and is looking for the 3rd relationship make everything okay? Good luck with that, honey. The two leads both need major reflection time.

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Sigh. Where to even begin? This episode was FRUSTRATING and that last scene was INFURIATING. Jae Eon and his lack of communication was FRUSTRATING. I don’t understand why he still did not tell Nabi that he and Seol-A were just friends. Why does he like to have people misunderstand him?

All his actions throughout this episode clearly indicated that he has feelings for Nabi. Why go through all that if he didn’t like her? Why make that bracelet. Why study glass making to help her with her sculpture. Why can’t he just TALK TO HER. I realize that he is a flawed character and that the drama has been trying to communicate to us that he probably had a broken childhood, which is why he has communication issues and doesn’t know how to form real relationships, etc. etc but ughhhhhhhhhhh so frustrating. Also, maybe instead of studying glass making, Jae Eon should take a course on COMMUNICATIONS instead. If Bitna can learn to communicate and redeem herself, SO CAN YOU.

That rain scene was NOT what I was expecting at all. He was being such a jerk and said such ridiculous things trying to make it seem like it was HER fault that she didn’t know that he has feelings for her. Granted, neither of them have been completely honest with each other about how they feel (Nabi has more than Jae Eon, of course), but Jae Eon was infuriating. His accusations were so ridiculous and I hate that he grabbed her arm to the point where he was really hurting her. Why did he even bring up the Seol-A situation again? He didn’t seem to care before but now he’s trying to use that against Nabi and accuse her of trying to screw his relationship with Seol-A over with her comment? Excuse me? What in the gaslighting hell….yes, Nabi did not have good intentions when she said that to Seol-A, but Seol-A also wasn’t innocent either. He was basically trying to justify his actions and wanted to make her feel guilty for hanging out with another guy…umm you guys are not in a relationship because YOU don’t want to commit. You expect Nabi to keep pining for you forever? Please.

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All hope that they would reconcile has gone out the window. When Jae Eon shed that tear, I was like UM TOO LATE????? You brought that upon yourself. You lost her because of what you just said and what you didn’t do aka tell her how you feel instead of trying to manipulate her and her feelings for you. I hate that Nabi thinks that the sole reason Jae Eon suggested that they date is because he was jealous and saw Do Hyeok standing outside her place. Yes, it is a major contributing factor, but I don’t think it was done with ill intent and do think that he has true feelings for her and would have suggested that they date eventually. He was motivated by the WRONG reasons and does not realize this.

Jae Eon played Nabi, us, and himself. That being said, do I regret watching this drama? For the most part, no. Am I kind of biased? Yes lol, but overall, I like the fact that this drama did not shy away from showing us the not so pretty parts of relationships and how complicated they can be. It’s definitely different than your typical dramas and I feel like it was a great representation of what real relationships can be like. It’s pretty realistic and raw. Feelings and emotions are complicated. It’s easy to get caught up in them and make mistakes. Attraction is one hell of a drug. This drama is one hell of a drug and ride. Hahah. It felt like a roller-coaster ride and every time I thought I had an idea of what direction it was going, I ended up being thrown into another.

I've said this before, but I'd rather Nabi not end up with either if she and Jae Eon aren't going to be endgame. I'm thinking maybe Jae Eon will go to the states since he was being scouted. Maybe Nabi will still go to France on her own accord. For once, I am seriously not sure how this last episode is going to end or what to expect.

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Wondering about how realistic it really is - how many people, having slept together so often, would still nt be able to have one decent conversation with each other until they finally fling mutual accusations at each other. How much have they discovered about each other? We still know so little about JE and we've seen so much of the action through Na-bi's eyes. How could she not have wanted to know more about him. Instead all her energy has gone into second guessing his feelings for her. I really really hope this is not realistic.

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I think the realistic part is the whole FWB and thinking you're OK with the setup and ending up wanting more. And then just in general -- getting caught up in emotions/attraction and diving head first into something too quickly...only to realize too late that it might not have been that great of an idea.

Nabi did want to learn more about him, but every time she tried doing so, he would change the subject or give one word answers. As she's said many times, he was always the one to draw the line with what personal information he shared with her. Perhaps he is ashamed of his not so perfect childhood and afraid it would affect the perfect image everyone has of him? Shrug. Insecurities!!

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I think in a FWB relationship, poor communication is pretty realistic. It is after all, a relationship based on sex, not on getting to know each other better as individuals.

This only gets exacerbated when one party wants more (Na-bi) and the other partner is happy with the FWB arrangement (Jae-un).

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But whether or not it's FWB, isn't it normal to talk to people and ask them about themselves and tell them about yourselves? Isn't that the "friends" bit??

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It depends... on whether they were actually friends in the first place. With some FWB, the emphasis is completely on the "Benefits", with hardly any trace of what most people would recognise as "Friendship". In Na-bi and Jae-un's case, the sexual tension at their very first meeting likely prevented any chance of being regular "friends".

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Yeah, really depends. Like Nabi has narrated to us many times, it's Jae Eon who does not like sharing about himself and always draws the line. As to why, we can trace that back to his own narration about keeping a certain distance so that you can't hurt one another, but that doesn't to have worked in this case with Nabi...and he doesn't know how to deal with that, hence the unfortunate mess he made and said at the end of ep 9. 😠😭

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I like the drama, because it is not simply black and white, there are no evil villains and heroes battling against the odds.
I do have a lot of sympathy for all of the characters and feel very sorry for them, even Jae-un, he can be so nice. I really wish them all the best and that they come through it all a littler wiser and more mature.

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Same. We just have broken people trying to figure out life. Some more dysfunctional and broken than others. Hope everyone heals and learns from their experiences and become better people because of it...although it is heartbreaking to see them unintentionally hurt and break each other's hearts in the process 😭😭😭

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Also, one last thing. Like Nabi, we knew what we were getting into starting this drama, so we have no one else to blame but ourselves lol! Sigh.

Really have felt like I've been on this personal journey with her and at this point, really just hoping for the best for her!

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I've run the gamut from wanting to shake her, to wanting to provide counseling for her, to feeling sorry for her. Not really a healthy spectrum of emotions. I said in an earlier week, she feels so unformed, as a person. The thing that bothers me most now is how bad she feels about herself.

I'm starting to wonder why it gets me so worked up. Mmmm, maybe I'm the one I should feel sorry for???? If so, has this been a personal psychological journey for us all? You've got me thinking.

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I get your frustration. For me, I see in Na-bi a lot of parallels with myself at my own worst moments. I think that's why I'm always sympathetic towards her, even when she's frustrating and not acting rationally/maturely/healthily.

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@sweetestbliss yes we knew what we were getting into that's why we should blame the whole nevertheless community. LOL.

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Hahaha sigh.

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🤣🤣🤣 I find it disturbing how mired in depression the whole lot of them are. I diagnose narcissism and delayed adolescence. The tolerance of the Nevertheless community for this state of affairs shows a general loss of perspective. First world problems.
This monologue
"Does he like me?"
"Let's go to bed."
"What?"
"But does he really like me?"
"Do you want to date?"
"What?"
"Does he like me?"

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LOL

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I'm glad I watched this episode. It's relieved some of my frustrations: that conversation in the rain was cathartic (for me at least). They admitted to each other that they were (at times) manipulating each other. As he said, they were both jerks. The saddest thing is how Na-bi feels about herself. She started from a low point at the beginning of the drama and things have not improved since . She was objectified in the beginning: spread out in the exhibition like a receptive butterfly, publicly exposed. She fled into the arms of someone she could not trust to be careful of her emotions. Now she regrets everything and blames herself. She did not have the resources to establish a healthy relationship with him, and from what we can tell he is not that sort of material anyway. (BTW he is equally objectified)

The most revealing part for me was the point she gets to after the teacher's criticism. She is struggling to find out how she can portray her emotions in her art. It's not at all surprising that she has this dilemma because never at any stage has she been able to articulate her emotions. In fact, she barely knows what she really feels or even wants. She has known one thing: she has been drawn and irresistibly attracted to JE, but even then she was constantly pushing him away and then helplessly falling for him, again and again, like she was hypnotized. She has seemed zombie-like, under a spell, without agency, scrambling to re-gather control; and losing it again and again and again. It's not surprising that she is blocked in her artistic expression - she doesn't know what she feels and what she wants and she blames herself. (If I have to look at those empty and fragmented bodies another moment, I'm going to throw up.) It all goes back to that initial betrayal, the reduction of her to a sexual object. It's interesting that both men have wanted her since they saw her at the exhibition. I hope in the next episode she finds a way, perhaps through her art, to like herself again by taking more control over her life.

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She did have one moment where she was motivated and inspired to work on her art again...when her and Jae Eon were on better terms after they started working together at his workshop, but that didn't last long, unfortunately.

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Yes and she was happy then too, It didn't last for long once the jealousy set in.

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Yeah, that was unfortunate. It seems in the last episode, it's going to be him who encourages and gives her the drive to start over on her piece.

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May I asked does anyone knows the timeline of their "undated relationship"? It feels like just a month or less?

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I noticed during my rewatch that during some scenes, they did deliberately show us the date on their phone. If you count from their first kiss to when they broke up, it was a little over a month. So, I'd say from when they first slept with each other, a month. From when they first met at the bar (mid March) till they broke up (mid May), two months or so. So, in total, they've know each other for about three months or so?

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Thank you @sweetestbliss I'll be rewatching and look for these details.

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I wish they had lead the last 3 episodes or so with Nabi's internal process and conflict instead of giving us sly Jaeun over and over and over again. The last few seconds of Nabi finally speaking out and crying by herself is such a fresh and satisfying scene, but you do wonder why the hell hasn't she done that? If only we were guided through her conflict more by actually showing what's in her mind instead of what's in her mind IN RESPONSE to what Jaeun did.

And yes, I also want this to end badly BADLY without any time jump or anything to get them back together. It's even much better if we ended up on a more positive note with Nabi being alone and dealing with herself more.

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Am I the only one who was annoyes by the fact that she didn't pick up the umbrella at the end??? For so many reasons deeper than the fact that IT WAS RAINING but still....that one fact bothered me so much I was distracted after she walked away.

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Annoyed*

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YES, I was so peeved. I didn't even care about her crying and Jae-un looking sad and mopey. All I could think about was: what about Do-hyuk's umbrella?!

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Lol you guys are so silly

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Perhaps there some significance that she abandoned a thoughtful gift from potato boy without even thinking about it.

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Like how she fell asleep in the car when he was talking because he is dead boring. Hahah I kid, I kid.

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I thought the same.

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me too. Potato guy becomes potato soup in the rain. LOL

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Hahaha

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I loved the fight scene at the end so much. I went back to loving to hate Jae-un, like I did in the first 4 episodes, and still really liking Na-bi.

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I was frankly surprised she didn't get in the Paris exchange program. That was the prefect setup for a classic K-drama 'forced separation' just before the finale. Where is my forced separation?

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I have a feeling that it's gonna be JE who is going to the States.

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I was surprised as well since they had that earlier seen with Jae Eon asking his mom about Paris. Thought there was going to be a separation and then reunion in Paris. This drama is playing us left and right lol. Especially with all the analogies and metaphors.

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@sweetestbliss yes playing with our hearts, but we're still here. (-_Q)

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Lol we love to be tortured. 💔💔💔

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The oddest thing is that when they showed the close-up of the list (and her rejection), the university she applied to is in Germany.

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Lol fail!

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I've been watching Nevertheless since it came out and I can't help but think it's losing some of it's moment. Yes it's still interesting but there's something that has definitely changed in terms of the ambiance. Maybe it's because things seem to be going at a snails pace in terms of story line progression within the episode? I'm not sure but if you want to know my thoughts on the characters check it out here: https://youtu.be/GTrU8A2waps

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I feel the same about the drama losing its moment. it totally lost the charm for me and I´m a huge fan of slice of life, realistic drama, especially ones set in college. I think my main problem is song kang tbh. he´s just not working nas this character for me.

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I'm also a huge fan so I'm feeling a bit sad by this. I'm actually not a big fan of Song Kang but the first few episodes won me over, I think on my side more than anything it's the character he's playing has no depth.

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The studio said they were going to cut Kim Min-Gwi's air time and write him out of the story because of his 'ex-girlfriend scandal'. But it appears they haven't. I guess that announcement was meant to sooth the fans for the 15 minutes that the 'scandal' lasted online. Then its back to business again.

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Yeah, I was surprised to see him in scenes, but I guess he was kind of essential to Jae Eon's character "progression" so they couldn't really cut him out.

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good for that american friend saying goodbye to Jae-un too. I'm not sure if it was the exact translation but vague kindness is low key savage and true with all his actions. I like the changes a lot compared to the webtoon also, fleshes out th Jae-un character by hearing his backstory. And now Na-bi is way more likeable. I also want to see these students do some actual ART! Maybe this is the catalyst for Na-bi to have actual emotion in her work.

Also I don't care what happens to anyone in the show lol just glad SOLJIWAN is working out!

This is show is so pretty though, the set - art class, Na-bi's room. They're almost another character in the show. Even Jae-un studio gives insight in his personality.

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The moth to the flame syndrome 🤷‍♀️

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