Have you watched him in Twelve Nights?

@ndlessjoie

I forgot that he was in AGE of YOUTH.
I haven't seen "Twelve Nights" but I will check it out.
Thank you!

And another thing I just remembered is that DY always consider the public interest before his own. I think VP Lee saw this, so he said something like 'an orange seed, only with good environment, can grow and become an orange tree. An orange tree, however, will always be an orange tree regardless of where it is planted' in some earlier episode. The king is also of this view; so perhaps they are really the father and the son.

@mmmmm,

We are all distorting history at this point so anything is possible :).
I feel the same about Dae-yeop being more than his sister's son (if he is indeed hers). Both VP Lee and aunt don't treat the older brother the same way as they do with Dae-yeop.

Gisaeng culture is fascinating. It's always intrigued me how so many deeply patriarchal cultures that generally forbid women to obtain an education carve out an exception for courtesans. It's so obvious that cultured, educated men simultaneously want to spend time with (and sleep with) highly cultured, educated women, but are also deathly afraid of them, so they create social structures that confine such women to the lowest rungs of society (it's very similar to the restrictions/taboos so many cultures place on actors).

@wonhwa

Yes I totally agree. They are fascinating! They live and breathe their culture more than any class. They were loyal to their king and country more than the likes of Court Lady Kim Gae-si and these so-called ministers.

Most remained anonymous when it comes to their work (poetry and novels) for fear of being traced back to them. Writing was their way of expressing their true feelings and opinions since they had no voice.

A sageuk is incomplete without a gibang and I liked our hero's give and take relationship with the gisaengs.

Have you seen "HWANG JINI?" It's a beautiful drama about one of Joseon's famous gisaeng.

@kiara yes, I have seen Hwang Jini and I loved how it used dance, music and poetry (not to mention the gorgeous costumes and accessories), as well as the way it presented women as major creators in so many of these art forms.

Gosh I want you all to write just that. How fun would a sageuk from the POV of entertainers be? I'm thinking of the first few eps of Crowned Clown when it was all about the performance troupe. Add in the observations of gisaeng and it would be cracktastic. Oh but the dear boys might be offended. Sigh

@jossie4cheryl Joseon-era performance troupes were really interesting (and quite bawdy/NSFW). For awhile there were state-sponsored troupes in Hanyang who existed primarily to mock/shame corrupt government officials, and then when the royal performance office was closed due to funding issues, many performers began touring or created regional troupes. There are several masked drama traditions that are still practiced today, as well as traveling Namsadang troupes similar to the one that Ba Wu tried to sell the princess to. Popular skits featured corrupt monks, a yangban-eating monster and a naked anatomically correct puppet rigged to literally pee on the nobility.

The writer of Bossam must have been familiar with these novels. What a clever way to introduce us to actual Korean literature from the time period! I am very impressed with the way the historical details are incorporated in the drama.

@kiara @wonwha I'm still obsessed with this story. Here's a nice summary: thttps://library.ltikorea.or.kr/originalworks/102154

I don't think Soo-kyung's drawings were originally intended for the book - she was just doing her best to portray "erotic" love. Being on horseback with Ba-woo or being carried by Ba-woo was the closest she could get to that. I wonder if she realized that or it was a subconscious thing?

@wishfultoki The summary is really interesting and helpful - I found this excerpt from the English translation and accompanying background info and now I want to pick up a copy: https://ieas.directfrompublisher.com/sites/ieas.directfrompublisher.com/files/previews/KRM33%20Unyong%20jon_excerpt.pdf. I do hope at some point, the princess will acquire some more "specific" info about romantic relationships,, since marrying a dead guy definitely doesn't help much in that department.

@wonhwa
Thank you! The footnotes and introduction seem really useful. I'm so glad I ordered it... I was on Amazon today and spent a mini fortune on history and literature books. Sageuks have ruined me. 😂
(I also got myself a translation of Peach Blossom Fan - hopefully it's a good one).

@snowflower,

This is what I've been looking for from writers when it comes to sageuks.
 I am completely  overwhelmed by the wealth of information these writers are incorporating in the drama.
I can't keep up. I'd still be reading up on it even after the drama is over. It's "Fascinating" to me.

@wishfultoki and @wonhwa,

Thank you for sharing! I read a little bit and nodded my head along with it. I can't wait to read the rest of it.
This cleared up my confusion earlier. Viki's subs say "West palace" but here it says "west of" and Prince Anpyeong was living at Susong Palace.
I thought it didn't make any sense because only the crown prince would reside inside the West palace with the king and queen etc.

I've been ranting about Confucianism throughout this whole drama (scroll up lol).
Our 2 male leads may appear unlikable to us at times but they are written from the lens of a Confucian society.
I appreciate honest writings and that's part of the reason why Dae-yeop's character can be understood.

Anyway, thank you again! I'm not done with this @wishfultoki. I'm as obsessed with it as you are.

@wishfultoki Yay Peach Blossom Fan! I believe the only English translation is the Birch/Acton one, and it's a little stilted in places but generally fine. Virtually all the characters are real, historical figures although the show obviously takes some license with things. As a theatre person, I love that one of the main villains is a playwright (who was truly a terrible person in real life, although a noted writer) and that theatrical performance plays a major role in the story. I did mean to ask you which kun operas/arias you had studied/learned.

@wonhwa Yes, I got the Acton translation. 😄 It arrives on Wednesday (with my Tale of Unyeong and Baekje annals of the Samguk Sagi - @pakalanapikake where are you? You'd be proud of me)

My only knowledge of kunqu is from an online course I did on Coursera. The lectures were good but I was left hungry for more. They went into some depth about the performance of the PEONY PAVILION and THE JADE HAIRPIN mainly. Both remind me a lot of the story in Bossam.

@kiara Yes, it was also helpful to know that Grand Prince Anpyeong was only 13 at the time and chose court ladies to accompany him when he moved to his private palace.

@wishfultoki Your Amazon purchasing spree sounds lovely and I will have to check out Coursera. I haven't read The Jade Hairpin (not sure there's an English translation) but Peony Pavilion is great (and really, really weird - one of my students called it Ming-dynasty Twilight and she wasn't wrong).

@wishfultoki,

You are on a roll👍🏽 . Hail to the Baekje princess!
I'll just be salty over there at the Goguryeo corner 😢.

If @pakalanapikake was here we'd be talking "King and the Clown" in the very 1st episode.
It would've been great if they did more than just the tightrobe walking performance. You know, roast the king or the Northerners.

@kiara In the East Asian Theatre class that I teach, we read "Yi", the play King and the Clown was based on, and I show clips from the film. The satirical skits are my personal favorite as well, although the tightrope walking, acrobatics and sieve-spinning are cool too!

@wonhwa,

I love musicals and while I'm watching K-dramas I also keep track of the stage shows in Korea.
I'm a fan of Oh Man-seok who played the main character in "YI."

"King and the Clown" was my very first film sageuk. I learned about the life of a performer and why they would cast a pretty boy like Lee Junki as part of the group.
They were so poor they couldn't afford to get married and the biri of the group was sort of beautiful and feminine.
Roasting the notorious Yeonsan was my favorite.

@kiara as a fellow musical theatre lover, one of my life goals is to go to Seoul some day and watch a ton of musicals. I think it's awesome just how dynamic the musical theatre scene is there. Maybe post-covid . . .

@wonhwa,

Same here. I have a list of shows I want to watch live.
Most of my favorite actors have musical background.

@kiara - yeah, I just want to see Jo Seung Woo as the lead in a musical before I die.

I'm definitely on team Ba-woo but I hope they'll all be on the same side at some point and be awkward together lol.

Dae-yeop isn't over Soo-kyung yet so he is going to be annoying for a while.

@kiara yes same here. Ba Wu and Princess have more than enough enemies already so I really dont want another one hurting them.
and true.. DY is still not able to come to terms how she can choose BW over him but i hope DY and BW patch things up to conclude they both want princess to be happy n sound with the person of her choice. And their Bromace can make thing little light (we hv seen glimpse of it already.. )

@kdramaswimmer,

Is it possible that the arrest was planned by Ba-woo and Dae-yeop since they both want to protect Soo-kyung?

This wasn’t the first time they’ve worked together to protect her.

I think DY's motivation was always to take out Ba Woo. If he is gone, then the princess will have to seek safety from him.

@welh,

Of course. He was probably more than happy to throw him in jail and hope he stays there.

@Welh

Even if he succeeded in getting Ba Wu out of the way and even if she did have to turn to him Cha Dol and her are inseparable. Only one of the many things DY doesn’t realize and has not thought through I’m sure

On the other hand, I’m giving Dae-yeop the benefit of the doubt. His first priority is keeping Soo-kyung safe. He doesn’t care about anyone else. If he wanted to get rid of Ba-woo, he would have done it already.

Mama Kim seems to be a proud lady. I'm more nervous than relieved for our couple's future with her as the matriarch.

Looks like he is showing good sword-fighting and sharp-shooting abilities. Can't say the same about archery though...
And yes, Mama Kim is a force to be reckoned with. Her last name is probably not Kim, but I like the sound of Mama Kim better than, say, Mama Jeong or Mama Hwang.

You are correct. She would be Lady Jeong :).

I haven't seen Episode 12 yet but I'll savor it later.
I'm gone for the day but I'll finish up our historical references for eps 11 tomorrow.

@wishfultoki, what is the Episode 12 kiss rule?

This was my first guess but Imhae's wife didn't match Lady Haeindang so I deleted my comment.

Prince Imhae was killed by VP Lee in 1609., one year after Gwanghae ascended the throne. Imhae was the oldest son of the late king. He was incompetent but still a threat based on the succession order.

If his sister had a son with him, it would explain why he would adopt their child and why his sister is living in the Lee family estate as a widow.

I don't know about you, but I went LOL that the first time we hear about Injo it's because he read a naughty romance novel. 😂

More seriously, the pen is mightier than the sword. The book is shaking up the political scene.

Re. Dae-yeop: My birth secret theory is looking weaker now... if he's not Injo and marries Lord Nae Am's daughter, he is not going to make it. Aigoo Young Master!

@wishfultoki,

That was one hell of an introduction 😆. The future of Joseon is as good as dog poop.

If Dae-yeop is Imhae’s boy he will definitely make it.