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Start-Up: Episodes 11-12 Open Thread

So many feelings! It’s a real rollercoaster this week as we see Samsan Tech navigate their highest of highs, and their lowest of lows. Relationships are impacted as we watch some dreams being realized, and others cruelly crushed.

 
EPISODES 11-12 WEECAP

It’s game on for everyone at Sandbox, because after all their hard work, it’s finally demo day. This is the moment that all the teams have been working for — there can only be one winner, and the 50 million won prize means success or failure for a lot of these companies.

Even though Samsan Tech is facing quite a bit of emotional turmoil (what with the “bug” reveal and tension between Do-san and Dal-mi), the team rallies. Their group spirit is one of my favorite things about this drama, and that really came together not only during demo day, but with the other issues they run into later.

But first, it’s time for Dal-mi and Samsan to shine on stage again. They nail their presentation, and Do-san’s technology has a serious wow factor. Things have to come full circle again, of course, so once again Samsan Tech and Injae Company’s algos are made to compete against each other. And this time, it’s Samsan for the win! Their accuracy rate might be lower, but their program is smaller and more agile. Alex is blown away (as is everyone), the team WINS!

They really earned this moment of rejoicing, and it’s so fun to watch them overjoyed and on top of the world — especially because this was a test of the team’s (and especially Do-san’s) integrity. They’re tempted to inflate their accuracy number to match/exceed Injae Company’s, and this moment of will-they-won’t-they is suspended for a while. It was an agonizing few minutes. Thankfully, Do-san and Dal-mi side with honesty, and I love that this choice brought about their win. How can we not rejoice with them?

Samsan Tech might have won, but there was a judge noticeably missing from the entire event: Han Ji-pyeong. Yong-san’s accusations against him caused Ji-pyeong to do some serious navel-gazing, and he goes through a rather heartbreaking tailspin this week.

He questions what he said to Yong-san’s brother as much as he does how he’s treated Samsan Tech from the get-go. Ji-pyeong is so hard on himself, but I love that we get this look at his inner workings. The ever-wonderful Director Yoon knows exactly what Ji-pyeong is going through and tells him not to blame himself, and later, even Dal-mi tells him all his criticisms of them were necessary — but either way, Ji-pyeong removes himself during this point in the story. And it has some dire consequences.

Do-san has been courted by 2STO’s Alex for a long time now, and now that they’ve won demo day, it’s clear that the companies will now have a formal relationship of sorts. Do-san previously told Alex that any deal has to include keeping the entire Samsan team, and continuing to run their app Noongil, and Alex agreed.

So, between being high on success, and having built some level of trust with Alex (and his enthusiastic interest in their algo), the team flies into signing a contract with 2STO. And they really do fly into it. They’ve no sooner won demo day than Alex presents them with a 3 billion won acquisition deal. The overwhelming sense of having succeeded supersedes any questions or suspicions, and our team looks over the contract and signs it soon after.

It might seem like a rash move on behalf of Samsan Tech (and indeed it did to me), but I guess here we can rationalize this by their naiveté around business and their desperation to succeed. Both of these things work against them most horribly in this instance.

When Ji-pyeong finally gets wind of what’s going on and reviews the contract, it doesn’t take him long to see the truth: not only is this not an investment, but it’s not an acquisition. It’s an acquihire, where Alex is basically buying the company for its engineers. Ji-pyeong tries to warn the team, but their desire to succeed, and Yong-san’s animosity towards Ji-pyeong, means that the warning doesn’t get to Dal-mi and Do-san.

The team’s excitement over the sheer magnitude of their success doesn’t last long. Samsan Tech goes from being on the top of the world, dreaming up new ideas and imaging their lives in Silicon Valley, to being crushed — quite literally.

Alex immediately dismantles the team, dismisses Dal-mi and Sa-ha, and makes it clear he has no intention of continuing the Noongil service. Ugh, it’s one of the roughest scenes in the drama thus far, and everyone (well, everyone from Samsan Tech) is crying by the time it’s over. They’ve been played in the most humiliating way possible, and their dreams have been dismantled by the very contract they thought guaranteed them success.

It’s heartbreaking! The team has come so far that watching them become shattered like this after they landed such a huge, impressive deal is one of the worst things ever. And everything starts to crumble because of it.

Do-san (rightfully) loses it and confronts Ji-pyeong. They have a huge fist fight in the Sandbox courtyard, and sad though it is, the raw emotion in this scene was killer. Do-san’s hopes and dreams are shattered, but one of the things he seems most upset about is Noongil and halmoni. He tells Ji-pyeong the secret of halmoni’s failing eyesight, and then it’s Ji-pyeong’s turn for a heart-wrenching breakdown.

In his bloodied, beaten state, Ji-pyeong seeks out halmoni, and it’s the saddest thing in the world to see him sobbing over her, and telling her that he’s not really a “Good Boy.”

So much crying, but even more coming! The Samsan boys have to decide what they’re going to do, since the contract is impossible to back out of. Here we get some nice character development for Yong-san, and a strong sense of what that “revenge” against Ji-pyeong really means to him: it means proving him wrong, and succeeding.

It’s hard for Do-san to accept what’s going on, though, and who can blame him. He goes from being happy and successful, packing for San Francisco with his mom giving him (adorable) dating advice, to being robbed of all the things that gave that success meaning.

He and Dal-mi clearly care for each other, and despite the lies around the letters, it really looked like their closeness and affection would win out. But this second humiliation is almost too much for Dal-mi to bear, and she chooses the difficult path of letting the failure go by breaking up with Do-san to further encourage him to leave.

Interestingly, this doesn’t feel a bit like a bit of noble idiocy swooping in — sure, her denial of him breaks his heart enough to get him to go, but I also feel like Dal-mi is done. The story digs into her character a bit here, and this idea of resiliency. I have to hand it to her. She takes her loss with real grace, and after mourning, she’s back on her feet, interviewing for a position at Injae Company. The girl has gumption.

These two episodes went so much further than I expected, in terms of how broken our team would really become. I never exactly trusted Alex, but he stooped to a cruel low. Our puppies! One might want to chide them with an “act in haste repent at leisure” sort of sentiment, but really, their youthful energy and expectation of good things coming is what makes them all so wonderful. I wouldn’t take that from them.

At the close of this week’s episodes, it certainly feels like we’ve hit the climax of the drama (and possibly warrant the time jump that seems pre-built into the story). From Sandbox, to Samsan Tech, to Dal-mi’s relationship with Do-san — things have shifted irreparably. What happens next? How will our characters respond to the challenges they are facing, whether that is a different kind of success than they wanted, or having to start over from rock bottom? I know what I hope we’ll find as our story continues, but I’m sure the drama has some surprises in store for us yet.

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Before I start you all have to remember first that I watched “Start-Up” for Nam Joo Hyuk, Not Kim Seon Ho. I didn’t even know that he was going to be in it, because I didn’t watch the trailers or the teaser. So with that in mind, let’s proceed. Also remember that I’m done with the love triangle and I don’t want to speak about it here. I’m just detailing what I feel about the characters.

Let’s talk about flaws. Some people say that Ji Pyeong is not flawed or Do San is not flawed but if we really look behind what is really shown, we can indeed see that the basis of this story is about flawed characters and how they make their way through the world, fall in love, succeed, fail, fall, fight, cry and live. But flaws are a call for help. Do San’s flaws are that even if he is described as the “Living Buddha”, when his emotions take over his rational sense, he goes into a rage blackout even without thinking. We saw him calming himself down with the knitting, but we didn’t know how passionate he could be about something when his entire mind is focused on it. And so seeing his rage blackouts, I’m glad we got to see that he is not just sunshine, but a hurricane in the sunshine. Do San smashing the name plate did indeed mean that he was defending Dal Mi, but he also let his emotions run amok and then when it all calmed down he realized what he was doing. He’s passionate, yes. But sometimes, you have to tone it down to sit down and listen because there might be something important in what the other has to speak. But let’s get to that later.

Ji Pyeong on the other hand had a taste of his own flaw this week: him not trusting Samsan Tech. He didn’t trust them in their initial stage and they got hurt by the harsh truths he had to say. But Ji Pyeong made it quite clear in the beginning that he was not going to sugarcoat stuff. He’s a Taurus, and they are famous as being earth bound, introverted, stubborn and most importantly, realistic. We have seen all these attributes from Ji Pyeong. Considering his entire childhood, he was always stubborn, but that stubbornness to succeed is what made him, (a) successful (b) harsh on the world and (c) more stubborn, but with a realistic view on life. But he is also criticizing. Some people might see it as pulling them from the stove into the fire, but some might look at it a new way: constructive criticism. And as someone who went through a similar story, I have to say even if criticism is not really good, constructive criticism is something that could hone you and prepare you for the real impending doom. But without knowing someone’s sensibility to the harsh truth one shouldn’t just shove it down their throat; as seen through Yong San’s brother. Ji Pyeong didn’t know how his words could affect someone fragile and even is Yong San’s brother believed that someone else’s thoughts and words shouldn’t bother him, that was what drove him to take his own life. Words can have an effect on people in a way some might take lightly...

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And when Ji Pyeong cried on Halmoni’s shoulder saying that he is not “Good Boy” because what he had done is nothing good, we know that his redemption arc has started. Ji Pyeong tasted his own medicine, now it’s his time to change it. But criticism is a two sided coin. While it could literally drive someone down to never stand up, it could also help someone to look past the mistakes, take them into yourself and stand up. Such as Dal Mi’s plight here. She listens to him and she does everything he asked her to do because he is experienced and he knows what he’s doing. He saved Samsan Tech and brought it to the successful status we all know and love.

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He said that’s ya because he was not aware of grandmas vision issues , that is all. He has not done anything bad by being honest and truthful, if people Cannot take it they are not
Fit for the cut throat world Of business.
SST is where it is now because of addition dalmi to thier team and HJP mentoring of dalmi . But alas SST guys let it all go because of their jealousy and insecurity.

Those three were ultimate beneficiaries of all work done by dalmi and HJP . Dalmi came out to be the most impacted after the hard work she put in.

She knows HJP has not done anything wrong that is why again she goes to him for advice.

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After all, the 460 questions explains it all. Dal Mi learned from HJP. Even Do San did. Everyone learned from him. But by the end of the day, he’s the bad guy. I agree with what you said, if you can’t take creative criticism into your system and learn from it rather than hate the messenger then you’re not ready to the business world.

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I think the OTP for this drama is actually halomni/JP. She is his only true "family" and I think we are seeing him come to regard her in that way instead of just someone whom he owes a lot. So either he is going to become her grandson-in-law or just a more official honorary grandson who helps take care of her. JP might like DM, but the only person I think he really needs (and actually loves as we see when he learns about her vision loss) is halmoni.

That being said, I think NDS is a much more relatable character than JP. JP has a more interesting character and backstory, but it's a very kdrama backstory. I think NDS's boring backstory is much more realistic. I know this isn't from this weekend, but I really felt for him when he cheated on that test. Yes, it was his own fault, but he wasn't trying to cheat. The answer literally fell next to him and once he saw it, was he going to write the wrong answer? Would you have written the wrong answer? Especially considering his age at the time. But then of course he felt awful about it afterwards (I know I would have if it were me) and that guilt and feeling of inadequacy stayed with him until now, especially because of the expectations his dad put on him. It's a very mundane, but also a more relatable story to me. Also his struggles with connecting to and understanding people emotionally definitely kept him from telling his family or anyone how he really felt.

I see a lot of people saying they don't really like NDS, but I can't help but feel deeply for him, even with all the frustrating mistakes he has made. (Though the fight this weekend seemed out of character to me. He's just so gentle otherwise.) However, I am more interested in JP's story than NDS, maybe because JP is still more of a mystery, maybe just because he's a less mundane more interesting character, probably both those things.

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I agree with most people that watching the episodes this week was a chore. I mean the whole point of Sandbox being established was to help start ups from hurting themselves when they fall but here it's just useless. The poor newbies are exploited and no one can do anything for them. What's the point of Sandbox then? Just to provide rent- free office and snacks?
Secondly I personally never liked the time lapse in any dramas. The whole point is to see how are characters progress throughout the journey but here it just jumps time to sought out all issues and make them all goodie goodie.

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On a brighter note, its nice that both actors are both fond of one another in rl :)
https://www.cosmo.ph/entertainment/nam-joo-hyuk-kim-seon-ho-rivalry-start-up-a483-20201122

"Nam Joo Hyuk on breaking out of character in some ~tense~ scenes with Kim Seon Ho":

"Do San and Ji Pyeong have a difficult relationship, [especially] if it were something [going on] in real life. Do San is not someone you see every day. As I did my lines, sometimes I, myself, came out. There [were] some times when I felt sorry toward Ji Pyeong for saying these lines as Do San. Those were times we had to film again because it was so funny and we broke out into laughter."

"Kim Seon Ho on his newfound chemistry with Nam Joo Hyuk":

"I met Joo Hyuk through this series. He's sincere and real about everything. Everything he does feels so real. I would just follow along with that energy and it was really fun. For chemistry, mutual trust is really important. Sometimes he would improvise and it would be Do San himself. It was amazing."

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Some thoughts: 

- I often tried to pretend to sleep in front of my friends and end up putting an awkward face. I can't even imagine if I need to pretend to sleep in front of my crush like Dalmi especially when Dosan caresses her face gently. It's feels like I pretend to sleep when my parent comes to my room, and they stroking my hair, it's so comforting yet heart-pounding moment 

-Found a post on Tumblr Nam Joo Hyuk in a flannel shirt, from The Light in Your Eyes and Weight-Lifting Bok Joo, each character is so different. For me Joohyuk is the actor that gives us boyfriend vibes, I don't know why, he's not even my favorite actor (I love Park Bogum but I have a hard time finishing Record of Youth). Both of the drama are focused on youthful dreams, family, and stuff but why it gives us a totally different impression. 

-  Dalmi's desperate "Yaaa!" to Dosan feels so real. The girlfriend demands her boyfriend to listen to her but he keeps avoiding her. 

- I can relate to Dosan when he can't let Namsan Dalmi and Saha getting dismissed. I once built a studio together with my friends, we love to share our dream, what will we do in the future together, how we plan out a project just like when Namsan Team spent a hopeful night together brainstorming about their upcoming business, yet it doesn't end up as they thought, a separation comes. For Namsan Tech it's because of a third party, while I decided by myself to leave from the studio. It feels bitter when we know we've shared the same dream with a friend that no longer our friends. 

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"Please know that I never condone violence, but that fist fight scene was awesomely choreographed. I haven't watched a fight scene like that in a drama like this. They were kinda hot. *Fans self*. (I get excited about good fight scenes in movies and dramas."

Ooh glad you pointed it out and wrote it out so well lol! Ngl, how hot were seeing both NJH/KSH duke it out? Although, the more I think of that scene, the more I laugh lol. Esp. since NDS was landing more punches on HJP's face. Altho NJH is more buff than KSH, KSH put up a good fight!!

Still though, both men were super hot in that scene. Particularly Mr. Han, I mean when he landed one on NDS, I was like "Go get him!" How does KSH still look hot even bruised??! It's unfair tbh. P.S: He really looks like an anime character all bruised up. Now I want KSH to do action!!

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Imagine KSH as Healer—

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Someone posted a video of him boxing in preparation for his role in Catch the Ghost, and he looked really into it :D I think he packed on a bit more muscle, and decided to do an action drama, he would kill it!! Healer 2 perhaps ;)

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Im cruel to say this but c´est la vie.

honestly, by now I myself don´t have the slightest trust that life is ever fair

but we can only move forward, what else? just keep moving.

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This must be weakest Park Hye Ryun drama. Started so promising but became melodrama from ep 6, where all the leads do nothing but sit and cry most of the time

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I underestimated and misjudged Nam JK ability to flesh out his character as a techie and awkward nerd to a sensitive,considerate and principled young man.
I retract my earlier assessment of him and look forward to his future projects.

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I have something on my wall that hopefully helps understand what the writer is trying to show. https://www.dramabeans.com/members/amy1009/activity/1170491/

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I read your analysis and I’m with you on all the points. I wrote a very brief comment a while ago, very very brief indeed. But it does connect with your long detailed analysis that I enjoyed.
Stay safe :)

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I read your analysis and I’m with you on all the points. I wrote a very brief comment a while ago, very very brief indeed. But it does connect with your long detailed analysis that I enjoyed.
Stay safe :)

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Um it's not mine. Just thought I'd share :)

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After hearing all the criticism for this drama I want to go back and watch School Nurse Files to get back my Nam Joo Hyuk love.

Please, we all know Halmoni/HJP is endgame. But I’m hoping they would give a twist and bring out the gays by making DS-JP a thing.

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Well, thanks for sharing :)

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Okay. Wow. I'm not even going to go into the acquisition and its aftermath, including (and especially) the fistfight. I think we can all agree that was trash on the trio's part.

Instead, can we just discuss the fact that JiDal is probably not endgame, and I don't even want it to be at this point? That means this drama is literally the SML grooming the ML to be a suitable romantic partner for the FML, who he loves. I have never been so insulted on behalf of a character IN MY LIFE! At this point, Do San and Dal Mi can have each other. I don't care. Just give our good boi some genuine happiness, please!

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JP was an 18 year old pretending to be 13 when he sent the letters to the 13 year old DM. If he actually had romantic interest in her time that would be truly be grooming in the most disgusting way.

JP didn't even introduce DS to DM, DM found him on her own. Beyond that, DS has rejected everything that JP told him to do in regards to Dalmi, and that is what made DS love him.

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I haven't been over here for awhile because I haven't been watching many new dramas. However, Start-Up is one that has really drawn my interest. The thing that amazes me the most about it is all the comments it's drawing everywhere on the net. At Asianwiki there 1,236 comments and one of the commenters said they thought that was a record. A lot of the comments are negative about the writing and the characters. Some think Do San cries too much, he's too dumb, and he's hostile. I think this is funny because after I started watching Start-Up, I began watching, Padam Padam and by the time I finished it I realized that the male lead in it was older than Do San, but very much like him. Kang Cheol was culturally illiterate and immature; he was involved in a love triangle in which he was totally besot by Ji Na; he fought with his male rival with his fists for Ji Na; he would do almost anything to please, and stand up for her; he felt guilty about things he'd done in his past; AND he cried a lot. This seems to be a pattern in Kdramas that occurs occasionally, and I don't dislike men that cry and cry often--in fact I think men crying makes them look more human. But I am really getting tired of love triangles. I'm beginning to think that from now on I'll stop watching a drama if it has a love triangle. So if any of you can recommend Kdamas that don't have them and that are worth watching, pass them on to me, please.

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I'm like 12 episodes late to this thread but I managed to catch up. Am I the only one who thinks that Do-San is unbelievably selfish? I get that this is the typical Kdrama storyline where it is imperative the first male lead gets the girl. I kinda just wished Start-up would have a refreshing take on this considering how they built up Ji Pyeong's character. But yeah, I honestly want to be convinced about Do-San being the white knight in the story but fast track to episode 12, it just felt so underwhelming. Maybe his character wasn't as strongly portrayed as it should've been (no offense to NJH), however, the story wasn't dragging to begin with. I'd expect it to flat line by episode 6 but I kept on watching. Episode 9 was well put as most Kdrama's would've opted to keep the story expanding till episode 12 but we got a dose of truth in episode 9 that made the storyline albeit, predicatble but still managed to keep it intriguing. I like the support cast, they make a HUUUUGE difference in really providing the support arc this show needed. Nothing to me can break the realtionship Halmoni and Ji Pyeong has built - the writer should ensure this be well played out till the finale because this story arc was the very foundation of my viewing retention. It would be a travesty if the writers would just throw Ji Pyeong's character under the bus. Gosh, I hope this doesn't happen. I have high hopes that Ji Pyeong will receive the redemption his character deserves. I don't mind if he doesn't get the girl, but the writers should at least give his character enough reprieve to find that silver lining. Bae Suzy in some scenes had the splitting image of Park Shin-hye, I swear. Her acting still needs improvement, but it's nice that she's not always the damsel in distress in every single episode.
I was really hesitant to watch this show, but quarantine had me Netflix'n again. So here I am back to this site and sharing my thoughts. Episode 12 was a doozy because it felt like they had to give Do-san's character a time to pathetically suffer, I'm biased because I've seen this scene in one too many kdramas and I guess I know what to expect in the upcoming episodes. But for what it's worth, Do-san deserves some life lessons. He's been really lucky with almost everything and I honestly don't care if he was guilt tripping the entire time because it serves him right. To begin with, he never got the karma he deserved. He's still a blessed little nerd who gets what he wants even at another's expense. And some people think Ji Pyeong was the insensitive pine nut in this story. Again, I'm just biased. Blame it on the crying dimples.

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Kim Sun Ho - you had me at "Welcome to Waikiki 2" and while that show will never be in par with its predecessor, you made me stick around and deal with all the cringing moments of Mun Ka-Young's acting. (ok, I admit, I watched you first in Strongest Deliveryman, but that wasn't your best role)
And now here you are in Start-Up, a second male lead with a well written backstory that for a moment, we forgot about Nam Joo-Hyuk. How dare you make us cry in the first episode, the second, the 9th, the 11th and 12th. You like putting us through that and knowing how we'll anticipate your character being thrown under the bus makes it unbearable for me to wait for the last few episodes. But, I'll stick around because you made this show likeable for me and I enjoyed every second you come up on the screen and making the writer and casting director regret their decision of hiring you only as a second male lead. I'll love you long time my little weepy corndog.

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