Rebel: Thief Who Stole the People: Episode 25
by dramallama
Get ready to feel tons of gratification at once, because Team Gil-dong is finally taking some major steps forward. While every move is being carefully and strategically planned, the king is making things quite easy by creating his own demons, and with those demons becoming Gil-dong’s allies, the tide turns drastically as Gil-hyun finally makes the checkmate move he’s been planning for a long time now.
EPISODE 25 RECAP
The king’s banquet is interrupted by silhouettes lining the rooftop in plain sight. It’s Joseon Batman Gil-dong and his Hong bandits, there to seek revenge. Gil-dong calls out to Yeonsangun with his given name, Lee Yung, and smoke bombs go off as Gil-dong majestically flies down with his cape flowing in the wind (lol).
The king is urgently escorted away as the Hong bandits fight off the guards and ministers in hazy visibility. Gil-hyun hears the commotion inside the palace and orders his guards to protect the king. After closing the gates, he stops and shows the slightest of smiles.
As the king is carried away by his loyal eunuchs, another smoke bomb goes off in his way. Gil-dong swiftly fights off the guards and eunuchs in the smoke, leaving the king completely exposed. The smoke clears, and Gil-dong smirks at the scared king before riding off on his horse. The disdain provokes the king to jump on a horse to chase Gil-dong, and he vows to capture the bandit with his own hands.
Gil-hyun orders his disguised guards to divide into two teams and meet back up at the north gate. Gil-hyun’s team frees the rebellious descendants, and the other team frees the imprisoned musician mothers, whose children have been safely taken care of under Gil-dong’s care. They come to rescue the prisoners while Ga-ryung is visiting Ok-ran, and she can barely believe it when the guards announce that they are the Hong Hero’s people.
She convinces Ok-ran to join them, and as they run away, she remembers Sang-hwa. She tells the guard that she will join them after finding Sang-hwa, and he warns her that she must meet them at the north gate within the hour. She promises to be there and searches the palace for Sang-hwa, who we now know to be the real Eorini.
The guards enter the palace to find the ministers passed out on the ground with signs around their necks labeling their crimes. They are accused of irresponsible flattery and for selling out their friends, all of which have turned the king into a tyrant. The guilty ministers are all sprawled out on the palace grounds, and it’s an amusing sight.
Yeonsangun chases Gil-dong on horseback onto a hill and confronts him about his true identity (finally, the intro scene of the first episode!). He asks if Gil-dong is a son of a royal family of Goryeo (the previous ruling dynasty) or an indignant son of a concubine. Gil-dong laughs and clarifies that he’s simply the son of his father, Amogae, a slave who was in the lowest class in Joseon.
At this, Yeonsangun laughs and says that this is impossible — there is no way for Gil-dong to have come from such a lowly person. Gil-dong reciprocates the doubt and asks how the son of heaven could become such an ignoble person.
A disguised guard leads the palace maids through the palace toward the north gate, but Ok-ran hesitates because Ga-ryung has not returned. She tries to delay the guard, but he says that they’re out of time. The guard surreptitiously bows to Gil-hyun as he leaves to carry out their mission.
Back on the hill, Gil-dong tells Yeonsangun that his parents gave birth to him, but he was made to be like this because of someone else: the king. He lived and died as a merchant, “Footstool,” and a thug. It was a boring and simple life, but he says, “The day you broke my body, the tears of the people flowed over me — realigning my bones and sewing together my ripped skin. So if you want to stop me, you need to stop. If you stop, I could return to my ‘Footstool’ life.”
Gil-dong smirks and rides off again, and Yeonsangun chases after him into a trap. He’s faced with a line of archers with their bows drawn and arrows pointed right at him. He takes out his sword to intimidate his enemies, but they remain unfazed. Then, from behind, a person comes to defend the king. It’s Gil-hyun, and he plays the role of a loyal servant as he tells the enemies to kill him off first.
It’s all a part of the plan, as we see Gil-dong and Gil-hyun mirroring each other’s slight smiles at this plot. Gil-dong praises the loyal servant and tells the king that they will meet again. Gil-dong and his rebels leave, and the king’s body goes limp on his horse. Gil-hyun rushes to his side to fulfill his role as the “loyal servant.”
The king returns to the palace with Gil-hyun’s support and looks peeved when he sees Scholar Song there to greet him. Scholar Song asks the king why he was not notified about Gil-dong’s escape, and the king erupts that he’s not obligated to report all of the royal issues to Scholar Song. The king adds that only Gil-hyun — not Scholar Song or anyone else — was there to protect him today.
Scholar Song then gets to the real issue of how Gil-dong was able to infiltrate the palace. He suspects that there must be a traitor inside the palace walls — someone close the king, someone the king trusts. Gil-hyun looks worried that he’s been caught, but Scholar Song targets another person: Nok-soo.
When Nok-soo tries to enter the king’s quarters later that night, Eunuch Kim blocks her way, saying that the king wants to be alone. She returns to her room and wonders why she’s no longer welcomed at the king’s bedside. The king manically thinks back to Nok-soo’s suggestions about keeping Gil-dong alive, and the seed of doubt begins to grow. He refuses to believe that Gil-dong is the son of a lowly slave and that Nok-soo would try to save such an unworthy person, and he can only laugh hysterically in disbelief.
Led by the Hong bandits, the prisoners arrive at the underground alcove, and the leader of Hong’s Descendants walks up to Gil-dong in disbelief. He’s relieved to see Gil-dong alive and cheers that they’re all safe now. The ladies of the alcove bring the babies to the musician prisoners, who emotionally reunite with their young children.
Back at the palace, Ga-ryung and the rest of the musicians return to their cluttered room, and Ga-ryung proudly thinks to herself that while her husband is not alive, there are people carrying out his will. She promises to take Sang-hwa out to join his people. Her thoughts are interrupted by Ok-ran, who enters the room and explains that she couldn’t leave without Ga-ryung. Ok-ran says that she will beg Nok-soo for forgiveness and seems to trust that Nok-soo will be merciful, but Ga-ryung is doubtful.
Sang-hwa returns to the room, and Ga-ryung immediately approaches her with affection. Sang-hwa finds Ga-ryung’s sudden change of heart strange and turns to Ok-ran. She offers to beg Nok-soo with her, and they leave together under Ga-ryung’s warm gaze. Outside, Sang-hwa overhears the maids and the eunuchs gossiping about the infiltration and seems to be keeping note of their words.
Still in his frantic state, Yeonsangun asks Eunuch Kim if the palace servants all saw him flee from Gil-dong. Eunuch Kim tries to convince the king that there are more important issues at hand, like fortifying the security of the palace, but the king is fixated on keeping a tight lid on what rumors escape the palace walls.
In the king’s court the next day, the king provides the ministers with a necklace of secrecy that reads: “The mouth is the door to disaster. The tongue is the blade that will cut the body. If you close your mouth and keep your tongue deep inside, then the body will be comfortable and become stronger.” He tells the ministers to always keep these words in mind.
To prove his commitment to secrecy, the king orders a disloyal eunuch to be beheaded in front of the ministers and other guards. They look away before the beheading, but the king says that anyone who looks away will also be subject to the same punishment. In their downtime, the guards complain about carrying out the king’s cruel murders. They’re tired of it, they claim, adding that they think they’ll go crazy if they continue on like this.
Gil-hyun writes to Gil-dong about the exhausted guards who do not want to kill any more people. Following the king’s orders, they’ve been forced to hit, cut, and crush hundreds of people. They’re human too, so they can only withstand so much cruelty. Gil-dong crumples the letter and addresses the king, “If you don’t stop, then my powers will only grow.”
Nok-soo tells Ok-ran that she did not intend to let her die, since Ok-ran has loyally served her up until now. She simply wanted to remind them of who holds the power to decide whether they live or die. Both Ok-ran and Sang-hwa thank Nok-soo and acknowledge her authority. They’re interrupted by a message that the king has summoned Nok-soo, so she heads off to prepare.
Nok-soo gets pampered by a bath, and the king silently enters the room. As he dries her hair, he asks to confirm that Nok-soo knew Gil-dong before she entered the palace. She opens her eyes at this, and he looks at her accusingly.
Lying prostrate in front of the king, Nok-soo insists that she only knew of Gil-dong when he visited the gibang as a merchant. He doubts that this is the extent of their relationship, since she tried on multiple occasions to save his life. He suspects that Gil-dong is the man that she gave her heart to. She remains silent as her eyes fill with tears, and his sad eyes fill with tears of betrayal. Upon leaving the room, Nok-soo collapses into Wolhaemae’s arms, still shivering in fear.
Ga-ryung enters the musicians’ quarters to find a sleeping Sang-hwa, and she confirms that she’s Eorini after seeing her sleep with the purple cloth in hand. She tells sleeping Eorini that she reminds her of her husband and that she’ll get her out of the palace.
Gil-hyun flagellates himself in front of the king by slapping himself and asking the king to punish him for letting the bandits into the palace under his watch. The king tells him to stop punishing himself, adding that Gil-hyun is the only person he can trust. He concludes that only Gil-hyun is capable of loyalty, seeing that he willingly shielded the king against the enemy.
The king decides to give Gil-hyun one more chance and offers to give him an army to capture Gil-dong. Gil-hyun thanks the king for this opportunity before asking for the authority to choose his army, since loyalty matters more than numbers. The king agrees and grants this power to Gil-hyun.
Scholar Song scolds Gil-hyun for not disclosing Gil-dong’s escape to him, and Gil-hyun acts like he was just a scared loyal servant who feared for his life if he disobeyed the king. He’s still on Scholar Song’s good side though, since defending the king in front of his enemies gives him extra brownie points.
Gil-hyun suggests that in order to defeat Gil-dong this time, they must plant one of their own in their enemy’s forces. He requests to use a Geoin from the Sugwidan for this, and he vows to uproot the traitor in the palace and kill Gil-dong. Scholar Song asks who would be suitable for such a task, and Gil-hyun suggests an unsuspected traitor, like a young lady.
Scholar Song suggests this to the king, and the king follows along with the plan. He announces to the lowest ranked musicians that he’s heard about their gossip and their yearning to go outside the palace walls. Sang-hwa gets targeted for always visiting her mother, and the king decides to kick her out of the palace. Seeing Sang-hwa in danger, Ga-ryung also admits to the crime of wanting to go outside the palace, but the king justifies her innocence by praising her open confession. So Sang-hwa is dragged out on her own.
Ga-ryung worries about Sang-hwa, but it appears that she’s not locked up in the prison. She’s released from the palace, and as she walks out, we get a quick flashback of her conversation with Scholar Song. He explained that she would be kicked out of the palace for a trivial matter and that someone from the enemy’s side would approach her. If she completes her duties, then he promised to grant her wish of living quietly outside the palace.
Sang-hwa gets on her way, and sure enough, a guard whispers that he’ll follow her. She does, and he leads her to a figure with his back to her. It’s Gil-dong, and he turns around to greet her. She only recognizes him as the battered prisoner she gave water to, and not as her older brother. Gil-dong speaks to her formally, which creates a distance between the supposed sister and brother. He approaches her and takes her hand, vowing to protect her now. Hmm, curious.
Gil-hyun walks in on the complaining guards, who all fall to their knees to beg him not to report their dissatisfaction with the king. But Gil-hyun is there to introduce someone who’s been wanting to meet them: It’s Gil-dong, and the guards marvel at the appearance of the legend himself.
Gil-dong sits down and explains that the underground citizens are those who have been abandoned by the nation and need protection. He knows that these guards have beaten and killed countless people, and he asks if they will continue to do so or choose to protect the people instead. He also knows that joining his side is an irreversible act, but he says that this is the last chance for them to live like humans. If they don’t join, they will have to continue killing innocent people. At that, the guards stand up one by one to join Team Gil-dong.
Jeong-hak continues his investigation on Park Ha-sung, and he speaks with a local in the hills where Park Ha-sung lived. While the local doesn’t know the names, he knows that a grandfather lived with his grandson years ago. Jeong-hak asks when the grandson left, and the local tells him that the grandson died. The illegible grave belongs to that very same grandson, Park Ha-sung.
Gil-hyun brings his Team Gil-dong army to the king as his selection of loyal servants. The king looks confident in Gil-hyun’s choice, and the army takes a knee to proclaim good fortune and a long life for the king. The king buys it all.
Jeong-hak walks urgently, telling his minion that they must notify the king immediately about Park Ha-sung. But then he wonders… if he’s not Park Ha-sung, then who is he?
To answer that question, Gil-hyun visits Jeong-hak’s home, and Madam Jo greets him as Park Ha-sung. He says that he wanted to see his friend before embarking on his long mission, but Jeong-hak is not home. Madam Jo welcomes him inside the home anyway, treating him to tea and once again asking that he remain close with her son.
Gil-hyun interrupts her and delivers a gift, a switch created by a branch that his younger brother retrieved in their youth. He says that he was reminded of it when Jeong-hak talked about his slaves. He admits that he also whipped with a switch many times in his youth in place of someone else. He gets up and addresses her as Madam (or literally “Wife”), wishing her a long life so that she can witness what happens in the world. With that, he bows and leaves her in confusion.
As Gil-hyun leaves, Choongwongoon enters the home. Gil-hyun bows with familiarity, but Choongwongoon doesn’t remember him. Gil-hyun says that they’ve met in close proximity before — in a cold, dark, and scary place. Gil-hyun tells him to think about it carefully before leaving. Choongwongoon thinks he’s crazy, but then he remembers when Gil-hyun wished him to the depths of hell before he went off to exile.
Madam Jo opens up the gift and finds a branch from an apricot tree. It’s a strange gift, but the white dots on the branch remind her of the errand she tasked Gil-dong with in his youth. She had sent him on a death mission to bring back a branch from a very specific apricot tree while carrying meat through a tiger-infested forest, but he had actually returned with the branch. She finds the coincidence unsettling.
Gil-hyun prepares to leave the palace with his troops, and the king watches them leave with pride and confidence. Just as they leave, Jeong-hak reaches the palace to find his mother and Choongwongoon waiting for him. They tell him that Gil-hyun came to visit, and Choongwongoon says that he remembers Gil-hyun showing contempt for him when he was imprisoned for exile. Then, Madam Jo shows her son the branch and says that Gil-dong was the only person she ever ordered to retrieve an apricot tree branch.
All the pieces come together, and Jeong-hak realizes that Park Ha-sung is Gil-dong’s older brother, Gil-hyun. Madam Jo seethes with anger and screams upon this frightening realization.
Jeong-hak rushes to the king and begs that he withdraw the troops, since Park Ha-sung is Gil-dong’s older brother. The king doesn’t seem to believe him, and they’re suddenly interrupted by an arrow that flies right past the king and into a pillar. It has a note attached, and it’s from Gil-dong: “Did you think I was talking nonsense? I told you that if you don’t stop, I will become stronger and more powerful. The time I needed to turn your soldiers into my warriors was one hour. One hour. Thanks to you, I gained faithful warriors.”
The king rips up the letter with his teeth, making him look like a madman. With his bloody mouth, he orders Jeong-hak to capture his army before they leave Hanyang. They deploy the troops to chase the rogue army, but it’s too late. Jeong-hak reports that they sent his soldiers, but Gil-don’g soldiers had already disappeared.
Gil-hyun arrives at the underground hideout, and he’s welcomed by Gil-dong and his beloved hyung-nims, who embrace him and celebrate his long-awaited return. They turn to the soldiers who then bow to Gil-dong, and Gil-dong welcomes the soldiers into the brotherhood. The hyung-nims also welcome them with hugs, and Gil-hyun tells his brother that these people came because they put their trust in him. Gil-dong looks at their new crowd and nods.
At the palace, the king throws a fit and convulses in anger. He’s baffled that Park Ha-sung is actually Gil-dong’s older brother, and Jeong-hak doesn’t seem to be over that realization either.
Gil-hyun looks around at their new underground home and spots Sang-hwa. He tears up and approaches her, calling her Eorini. She doesn’t respond to that name and tries to explain that she’s been kicked out of the palace, but he doesn’t care and hugs her. She claims that she’s not Eorini, but he ignores her claims and takes her hands, asking how lonely she must have been. Gil-dong watches this from afar with sorrowful eyes.
COMMENTS
Wait, so is she Eorini or not? I think I’m convinced that Sang-hwa is Eorini, especially with that purple ribbon confirmation. And I do like the idea of Eorini having more of a complex character arc. Like Gil-hyun, she’s been brainwashed by Scholar Song, but she’s been fully and properly brainwashed to the point that she doesn’t recognize her brothers. Is it the childhood trauma that induced this memory loss? Or maybe she believed that she was abandoned? Gil-dong seems to understand that he needs to be gentle in coaxing her memories to return, and I wonder how he’s keeping it all together. Eorini has always been his Achilles heel, and I’m a little surprised that he didn’t completely break down at the sight of his sister. Either he’s matured, orrrr it’s not his sister. Okay, I have to stop.
Beyond the sister identity confusion, this was a fun and rewarding episode. I do enjoy watching Yeonsangun suffer from all the karma that comes from killing innocent people. But at the same time, as much I love to hate Yeonsangun, I actually feel bad for him. Even with his extreme cruelty, Kim Ji-suk’s portrayal of Yeonsangun’s loneliness evokes sympathy. That’s been the underlying theme in the king’s character — his crippling loneliness that partially explains his erratic behavior. More than ruling his nation, he’s concerned with interpersonal trust with those closest to him. The necklace of secrecy he gave to the ministers like some chastity ring is just an illusion of trust. His pathetic desperation to have people respect him makes his such a sad and tragic character. On top of that, his rage and cruelty alienate his followers, which makes everything seem like low-hanging fruit. It’s almost too easy for Gil-dong to steal the people from him.
I loved that Gil-hyun was the star of this episode. Having mastered the art of hiding his identity, he was at the heart of all the gratification I felt while watching. His chilling and subtle reveal of his true identity to Madam Jo has to be my favorite part of this whole episode. I was half-scared and half-hoping that she would realize his real identity during their conversation, but I think I like how they were left a few steps behind. And by the time they put the pieces together, Gil-hyun didn’t care about preserving his identity anymore.
With the siblings supposedly reunited, we’ve only got one person left to save. Based on the first episode, we already know how Ga-ryung will be used as bait, but I wonder if she’ll be able to navigate her way around the palace to be more than a damsel in distress. Her character always had so much potential, and it’d be a waste if we don’t seem more of her fierce side in these last few weeks. This show has been giving us a lot of delayed gratification, and I hope that applies to Ga-ryung too. Instant gratification is great, but delayed gratification almost tastes like sweet revenge. You can just tell that Gil-hyun is getting a taste of it right now.
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Tags: Chae Soo-bin, Episode 25, Honey Lee, Kim Ji-suk, Rebel: Thief Who Stole the People, Yoon Kyun-sang
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1 spazmo
April 25, 2017 at 8:15 PM
i'm hoping Sang-hwa isn't Eorini......
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outofthisworld 不愧是我 🏍
April 25, 2017 at 8:26 PM
I'm the opposite. Ok Ran is too much of a doormat to me. Sang Hwa if guided correctly can be of more use to Hong family.
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latteholic
April 25, 2017 at 9:23 PM
I like that Sang Hwa is Eorini as well, but my heart went to Ok Ran that moment she stayed behind for GaRyung even though it meant she would still be executed.
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cloveredlioness
April 26, 2017 at 2:50 PM
I agree. When I heard Ok-ran was Eorini based on reporting from websites, I was disappointed because Sang-hwa was so much more intriguing and I liked her spunk. Plus she LOOKED like the younger actress and Ok-ran didn't lol.
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pogo - sailing HMS Queen of Tears and HMS Sailboat Lovely Runner🍉
April 26, 2017 at 10:33 AM
I have to agree, Ok-ran is pretty much a template sageuk heroine in training (of the non-cross-dressing kind) but Sang-hwa is far more interesting and has a spine of steel, even if she's currently on a collision course with her brothers, agenda-wise.
Come to think of it, each of the Hong siblings would make a fantastic drama lead in their own right - Gil-dong already is, but Gil-hyun and grownup Eorini would be interesting central figures for a drama too.
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mongjin8
April 25, 2017 at 9:31 PM
At first I really thought it was OkRan because of the clues that was thrown to distract us but I was drawn to SangHwa even though she was mean. She grew up to be a fierce young lady instead of becoming someone delicate like OkRan. There's still similarities between the old and new Eorini.
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⭐ Sera The Ms Temper ⭐
April 25, 2017 at 10:41 PM
I hoped so too.. but maybe no more.
Sang Hwa physically looks much more like Uhrini. I guessed Ok Ran is the real Uhrini since Jung Da Bin is more experienced actress, so she will have more important role. How to say, it gives a feeling like a newbie and less talented actress stole the role from the experienced actress lol.
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Night Elf
April 29, 2017 at 6:58 PM
I think it's a bit discriminatory to say that the actress portraying Sanghwa is "less talented" just because Jung Da Bin is a more experienced actress. Lee Su Min is doing amazingly well on her role so it doesn't feel "not right" to me that she gets to play Eorini.
There are certain orders in this world that are followed and I understand that seniority is one of them. But to uphold these set-ups (seniority, age, etc.) to the point that it limits us of the possibilities is not helpful. It's like agreeing that the words of an irresponsible older sibling hold more weight than her/his mature younger sibling just because s/he is older. Or like how a talented employee is not allowed to share her/his ideas because s/he is new to the company. It rubs off the wrong way, doesn't it?
Now that I think, Lee Su Min getting the role of Eorini instead of Jung Da Bin is an application of the lesson Rebel is telling us in the first place: that what greatness is not measured by class, wealth, or what-have. What makes a person great is not what they are born in or born from, it is on their will to be great, itself.
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lush
April 25, 2017 at 11:52 PM
geoins were clearly brainwashed before becoming tools used by the sugwidan. okran is too upright and doesn't act like someone that could be of any use by them
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pogo - sailing HMS Queen of Tears and HMS Sailboat Lovely Runner🍉
April 26, 2017 at 12:12 PM
nah, she's Eorini all right. Gil-dong was just trying to not spook her since he knows by now she has no memory of her brothers, but Gil-hyun's reaction (since her presence in the cave is completely unexpected to him) seals the deal - this is their Eorini. Brainwashed and possibly about to betray them all, but most definitely their sister.
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spazmo
April 26, 2017 at 2:45 PM
she sure turned around fast... wish they played it out a little longer, to make her at least more conflicted because she really WAS so mean...
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latteholic
April 26, 2017 at 3:53 PM
I'm just glad they didn't drag it even longer. I was ready to have them reunited 10 eps ago.
I personally can't really complain much about the writer though, because even though I agree that she did drag this part for unnecessary long time, I found the payoff to be worth it and every thing made sense in the end. I guess this has always been the case with other revelations as well... (at least for me)
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2 buttercup
April 25, 2017 at 8:22 PM
Comment was deleted
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buttercup
April 25, 2017 at 8:30 PM
Argh! having probs commenting.
Anyways, I totally loved this episode! Mainly bcuz I enjoyed watching the king suffer. Ha, the time when the king and madam Jo realized the truth abt Gil Hyun was awesome! It was too funny lol..
The brothers reunion with their sis was great! I hope Eorini remembers who she truly is!
And can someone plz tell Ga ryung that gil dong is alive? Poor girl still thinks her husbands dead.
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3 cloveredlioness
April 25, 2017 at 8:26 PM
HOLY CRAP! Gil-hyun, you are a STONE COLD MOFO! DAYUM SON! When Jeong-hak found out who he was, I was so freaked out for Gil-hyun, but Gil-hyun was like, ‘Chil, girl, I got this.’ And then he straight up went and TOLD his enemies who he was. It was DELICIOUS. ILU Gil-hyun. He was the MVP this episode.
Seriously, every time Gil-hyun had to act and pretend he was Team Yeonsangun, I cackled. It was just so satisfying to be like, ‘Oh, you think you know Park Ha-sung, do you now, Yi Yung? Just you wait!’ And then the snark of Gil-dong saying ‘It appears that you have at least one loyal subject.’ Oh snap! When Song Sabu told the king that there was a mole close to him and that mole was Nok-soo, the look on Gil-hyun’s face was just classic. Like “WHAT?” but okay…
It’s also endlessly entertaining that after every confrontation with Gil-dong, from which he ends up unharmed, Yeonsangun still somehow requires assistance. Like Gil-hyun had to support him. Seriously, bro, who are you kidding? I know it would shatter your world view, but yes, a SERVANT got one up on you. Multiple times lol.
I love how Gil-dong is winning people simply because of his actions in contrast to the king’s. He wins and steals people, whether they be broken out prisoners or soldiers because of the king’s cruelty and crueler the king is, the more he wins in this manner. And when he sent that arrow to the king on the note just when everyone figured out who Gil-hyun was…it was just so badass. Both brothers were just so badass this episode.
If they had microphones, they would be dropping. Those two had so many mic drop moments.
Talking about the ladies next lol...
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Dramakichi
April 26, 2017 at 12:38 AM
Sorry - I didn't mean to hit the thumbs down! I meant to hit "read more" but my aim was off. It's getting late - I think I need to go to bed cuz I can't see straight... ?
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ObsessedMuch
April 26, 2017 at 12:42 AM
Hi I randomly saw your comment in the 'recent comment' section.. You can change your downvote by clicking on the upvote (thumbs up) icon..
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Dramakichi
April 26, 2017 at 5:43 PM
Thanks for telling me! I just fixed it!
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merin
April 26, 2017 at 6:33 AM
If there was an Oscar award inside the world of Gil Dong, Gil-hyun should certainly win it. Slapping yourself silly to win the trust of the king? Easy. Acting like a loyal puppy when inside he's mad. Easy breezy. I like how he's one of the good guys but is capable of deceit. Usually, "good" guys are portrayed as people who are pure as snow and can never do anything remotely gray. But humans are humans afterall, plagued with humanly faults. He is really a hero I can root for.
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cloveredlioness
April 26, 2017 at 2:54 PM
They need the Joseon acting category just for Gil-hyun. He was really great every single time he has to deceive someone. Those Hong siblings are really great at creating personas to deceive people. Gil-dong has Footstool, Gil-hyun has Park Ha-sung and Eorini became Sang-hwa.
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pogo - sailing HMS Queen of Tears and HMS Sailboat Lovely Runner🍉
April 26, 2017 at 9:49 AM
yeah, Gil-hyun had me wanting to break out all the flags and start cheering because BOSS doesn't even begin to cover how beautifully he manouevred his way through everything, and it was some beautiful payoff because normally, characters running a game as long as the one he was don't get their intended results, and certainly don't get to enjoy the fruits of their success - especially not with a mortal enemy thisclose to bringing the entire thing crumbling down.
But instead of getting caught and tortured, we get Gil-hyun triumphantly badass, wrapping up the tail end of his Oscar-worthy (ever since he realised the King was a selfish crazy a-hole and the actual worst) performance as the King's ost loyal servant, by OUTING HIMSELF to his worst enemy (boo for you, Soo-hak!) and riding off into the sunset with a small army that he tricked the King into giving him!
Now that's what I call style.
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cloveredlioness
April 26, 2017 at 2:56 PM
DEFINITELY got style! Like, I still can't believe he just decided to leave in a blaze of glory and stick up his middle finger to literally EVERYONE.
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latteholic
April 26, 2017 at 4:40 PM
Orabeoni Boss Style.
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4 cloveredlioness
April 25, 2017 at 8:30 PM
I know Ga-ryung has no reason to believe Gil-dong is still alive but it kills me that she just assumed that it was someone continuing her husband’s work. Girl won’t let her heart break again. T_T. And then for her to be so close to meeting Gil-dong if only Yeonsangun had let her go with Eorini. NOOOO. Like, how good would it have been for them to be reunited right then and there?
I just love Ga-ryung. She will help the Eorini girls regardless of who they are. It really sets her aside from Nok-soo. And even though she’s acting counter to what the others may expect from a gisaeng, it’s interesting that her positive character traits are the ones that engender her to Yeonsangun. I’m also enjoying how these character traits have made Ok-ran loyal to her. She shows her care and compassion for Ok-ran, so Ok-ran returns it to her by staying.
I think Eorini will have an interesting dilemma and I think Gil-dong and Gil-hyun are going to try to see if they can get her to remember them…and if not, hope that the power of their love/influence will cause her to change her mind since these guys really are fighting for the good of the country and tattling on them to Song Sabu will only benefit Yeonsangun, a man that she’s afraid of. This also works if Ok-ran is the real Eorini and Sang-hwa isn’t. I think the parallel is that we will see how another Nok-soo could be made with Sang-hwa, but how she ultimately didn’t and overcame.
Yeonsangun may be paranoid af, but he certainly is not dumb. He saw through Nok-soo’s lies pretty damn quickly. Woman is going to be on thin ice. I can see her betraying Ga-ryung pretty quickly if she finds out who she married to Yeonsangun to get back in his good graces and secure her position. I think that’s how Ga-ryung will get on that stake. But I’m still holding out hope that she’ll meet Gil-dong before then.
Nok-soo's two-facedness is also annoying me…in a good way, obviously. But the way she forced Ok-ran to be faced with death just for stepping on her skirt was crazy. However, instead of letting her words dictate her actions, she backs off her words, which shows her duplicity. She lets Ok-ran live and says that I was going to be nice anyway! Whatever. It’s going to cause others to distrust her and betray her.
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keiru
April 25, 2017 at 8:45 PM
ikr ! Why in the world did Gil Dong announce his return as Hong Chum Ji and not Hong Gil Dong? He wants Ga Ryung to hear about it but anyone can be Hong Chum Ji so she won't even consider it as her husband !
And why did Sang Hwa has to disappear only to come back knowing nothing about the chaos in the palace? She might be at Song Sabu's place at that time but.. but.. sigh.. talking about lost opportunity.. if only Ga Ryung could take Ok Ran and Sang Hwa with her..
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latteholic
April 25, 2017 at 8:55 PM
I know! So many missed opportunities for them to be reunited.
lol. Sang Hwa and Ok Ran, it's like a buy one get one free package for GaRyung :D
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cloveredlioness
April 26, 2017 at 2:58 PM
The only thing that would have made it worse is the coincidentally in the same place/shot but we walk past each other thing they kept doing with the siblings in the middle episodes...Ugh.
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mongjin8
April 25, 2017 at 9:34 PM
Their had always been too many missed opportunities when it comes to this drama that it breaks my heart.
I hope NokSu will tell GaRyung that GilDong is very much alive TT GaRyung has shed enough tears already. ~ TT
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cloveredlioness
April 26, 2017 at 2:57 PM
I can't see Nok-soo doing that unless it's to spite and taunt Ga-ryung at this point.
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5 cloveredlioness
April 25, 2017 at 8:34 PM
How great is it to finally have scenes from the first episode? That quick cut to the hill on the hunting ground to the first episode’s scene was kinda LOL…but it’s still great. Gil-dong sure knows how to get under Yeonsangun’s skin.
That line “How is it that you the king, born of heaven, has become so lowly?” I LOVE IT. SO MUCH. It shows such a great reversal for Gil-dong and Yeonsangun. Gil-dong has snatched that crown and taken the king’s position while the king has become lower than even a servant due to the way he treats people. I also love how Gil-dong keeps pushing the king’s buttons, calling him by his given name and taunting him all the while giving demands.
It’s so fascinating how it’s the tears and suffering of the people that healed and created Gil-dong, the hero, and made him reborn. And then I was like “Who cried on him? …GA-RYUNG!” OMG! She’s like a unicorn. You created a hero, girl! And other people, too, but it’s significant that Ga-ryung did it since it goes along with the image of her as a healer. Plus, Gil-dong’s monologue also stated that Ga-ryung’s tears had always moved him. So it will be interesting to see if Ga-ryung ultimately creates the hero that will save her from Yeonsangun.
I would prefer for her to get out of his clutches by herself...but yeah, it would be interesting if that happened too. I think of all people, Ga-ryung could sneak out of a palace. She did, after all, live with gangsters for 4/5 years.
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6 latteholic
April 25, 2017 at 8:41 PM
Thanks for the recap dramallama!
This episode was one gratifying moment after another! GilHyun is truly the MVP here and that scene with Madam Jo was also one of my favorite scenes from this episode. I bit my nails throughout it all though esp after Soo-hak finally realized that GilHyun is faking his identity. Thank goodness, everyone is finally safe now. Well, except for GaRyung.
Meanwhile, it must be suck to be Yeonsangun in this episode. Every single person that he thinks is his turned out to be related one way or another to GilDong, and his remaining loyal servant turned out to be GilDong's brother. Pfffft... Super Ultra Mega Burn!
Omg. I was convinced last week that Eorini is Sang Hwa, but then Gil Dong's reactions made me doubting everything that I thought. I eventdreamt last night that the writer pulled another trick. I'm honestly developing a severe trust issue with the writer now. lol. But still loved how much she cares for Ok Ran!
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cloveredlioness
April 25, 2017 at 8:45 PM
Right? I'm getting whiplash. I NEED Eorini 100% confirmation, not the 90-95% range we've been getting so far. Are the brothers differing on who they think is Eorini? Ugh.
How funny is it that there's even MORE people in the palace who are loyal to Gil-dong...like Ga-ryung. And maybe, if it's a good day, Nok-soo lol.
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latteholic
April 25, 2017 at 8:52 PM
And Eunuch Kim... I mean, at least he was rooting for GilDong and I hope still, secretly... :D
My brain was telling me that it must be Sang Hwa if GilHyun's reaction was like that (also she does have a bad sleeping habit. lol) but why must GilDong be like that? Like I don't know what to believe in anymore. lol.
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outofthisworld 不愧是我 🏍
April 25, 2017 at 8:53 PM
Was Gil Dong's reactions so confusing?
If Sang Hwa isn't Eorini, why would Gil Dong let Gil Hyun react to her in such emotional manner? More than trust issue with writer, I am having problem with the writing i.e. on the Gil Dong's thinking and behavior. When Gil Dong first approached Sang Hwa, his reaction is too mild compared to how important Eorini is to him. But if Sang Hwa isn't Eorini, then what is with that look on his face?
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latteholic
April 25, 2017 at 9:05 PM
Exactly, that is why it's confusing. He's a bit too distant and at the end of episode, he looked like he's trying to stop GilHyun?
I guess it's back to my trust issue again. The writer has been throwing so many twists and red herrings in this show related to Eorini's identity that even with that small reaction I immediately thought that she has another twist coming.
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cloveredlioness
April 25, 2017 at 9:09 PM
Since she didn't recognize him or Gil-hyun from before, I think Gil-dong didn't want to overwhelm her or force his memories of her on her before she was ready. I think during their initial scene, he's testing Eorini's reaction to see if she really knows and then he adjusts his reactions from that.
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beansoverflowers
April 25, 2017 at 9:10 PM
Oh, I agree. His expression was inscrutable at the end of the episode. That was definitely a move by the director and writer to make people tune in for the next episode. An obvious and cruel tactic, but it works. It really is reminiscent of Reply 1988 when Hyeri just watches Ryu Joon Yeol confess to her with a half smile and knowing look.
It's pretty hilarious how most of the articles in real-time were about Sanghwa, her reveals were the ones most watched, and most of the live comments were hating on the writer for it. Any news is good news etc etc. There was one particular person who was naming the writer and being like 'I AM NEVER WATCHING ANY OF YOUR DRAMAS AGAIN ... but I'll watch this one of loyalty'. (The other half were in tears about Garyung.)
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latteholic
April 25, 2017 at 9:14 PM
OMG. The Ryu Joon Yeol's confession scene. My Jung-hwan-shaped-heart is still not healed from that one!
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keiru
April 25, 2017 at 9:35 PM
Wow.. I really am curious about k-netz's reaction for this drama. I'm shock to see Tuesday's ratings though.. what happened to other Mon-Tue dramas?
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⭐ Sera The Ms Temper ⭐
April 25, 2017 at 10:57 PM
I see not much difference for Rebel and Perfect Wife for Mon&Tues slot. Rebel epi 25 :12.1% and epi 26 : 12.4 but dropped from last week. Whisper on the other hand decreased a lot from 15.5 to 11.9.
outofthisworld 不愧是我 🏍
April 25, 2017 at 11:05 PM
Wow! What happened to Whisper? That's a very strange drop. I'm not watching the drama but I thought it would have gotten a fairly consistent rating by now.
liina
April 26, 2017 at 12:23 AM
There are the upcoming elections and a general drop in drama ratings might be related to that.
esj000
April 26, 2017 at 6:38 AM
Yeah it seems like Whisper watchers flocked to jtbc for the presidential debate, while Rebel and Ms Perfect viewers remained almost the same.
keiru
April 25, 2017 at 9:13 PM
He's got teary eyed.. I think Gil Dong was being (so much) gentle to Eorini and let her take her own time. Eorini might be avoiding him if he acts too aggressive plus he doesn't want her to be like ; "what's wrong with this weird guy?"
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mongjin8
April 25, 2017 at 9:37 PM
I thought his reaction was weird too but I just thought that he reacted that way because he was sad that Eorini did not recognize them and that will also break GilHyun's heart. TT
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Rachel
April 26, 2017 at 3:52 AM
I think Gil Dong recognised that Eorini might have suffered memory loss since Gil Dong himself suffered it. So he didnt want to be aggressive and just waited for her memories to return.
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7 outofthisworld 不愧是我 🏍
April 25, 2017 at 8:42 PM
When I saw Gil Dong fly down in cape and eye mask, I lost it. Pwaaaah...I hope the show intended to convey how ridiculous and funny the situation was because there was nothing cool about it. On the other hand, I find scenes involving King Yeonsangun, Nok Su and Gil Hyun to be bristling with intensity and imminent danger.
I really hope Ga Ryung will be more than just a bait. I was so ready for her to be badass and get revenge(although it's for naught).
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cloveredlioness
April 25, 2017 at 8:47 PM
I love superheroes, but that was HILARIOUS. I also thought it was funny that he did his dramatic entrance, changed out of his costume and went to battle the king's elite guard. Because their confrontation had to match the original from episode 1 lol. (Or maybe because Gil-dong himself knew how ridiculous it was)
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pogo - sailing HMS Queen of Tears and HMS Sailboat Lovely Runner🍉
April 26, 2017 at 12:21 PM
well, I suppose he wanted to make the king look stupid. And what better way to do it than by charging him in a Zorro costume and making him look like a coward? lol.
I know it's absurd but I rather enjoy that this drama isn't too up itself to have some fun, even if it fillets our hearts next week.
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cloveredlioness
April 26, 2017 at 3:02 PM
The funny moments are so funny, but the sad moments take you by the heart and just rip it out. They really know how to pull on your emotions.
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8 mk
April 25, 2017 at 8:44 PM
I LOVE that Gil Hyun no longer needs to hide his true heart and loyalties to his brother and to the people. And Sang Hwa is definitely Eorini (it's way too late to pull another twist with that), I think she lost her memory from trauma.
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9 beansoverflowers
April 25, 2017 at 9:06 PM
YAY! Thanks for the recap. This week has been sweet gratification. Gilhyun had so many chances to smirk, and I liked how they didn't draw the tension out by having him stay in the palace any longer. People were going to find out anyway, and Gilhyun left with him in control.
& I was actually in tears last night watching a part of it, even whilst knowing the contrasts were too obvious and there were probably obvious plot holes. There's nothing better than an underdog, and one who started the whole business unwillingly.
It's been a long time since I was obsessed enough with a drama to read the live comments on naver, as well as continuously refreshing the site to watch the videos being uploaded in real time :3
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10 Anything Chewy
April 25, 2017 at 9:27 PM
Kim Ji Suk's acting was impressive... Especially the part when he confronted Lee Ha Nui on her relationship with Gil-Dong... The look of rage, angst and betrayal left me a really deep impression. He made the king's character truly his own. I hope he wins an award for this!
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mongjin8
April 25, 2017 at 9:39 PM
I hate the King but everytime he makes a look like that, it breaks my heart. He may be ruthless, but he's very fragile. And foolish too. Aigo
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Anything Chewy
April 26, 2017 at 3:55 AM
Initially I thought he didn't look like a King... But now I'm totally bought over by the King portrayed by him. The whole insecurity, paranoia and crazy acts were such highlights for me, and my heart totally breaks at those looks too! Its tragic that he makes those desperate attempts to solidify his grounds, only to realise that not even a single person he cared and trusted was on his side.
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⭐ Sera The Ms Temper ⭐
April 25, 2017 at 10:48 PM
True. He almost made us disbelief that he was Eric's friend in Oh Hae Young lol. Kim Ji Suk is always a good actor, hope he will win something. Same goes to Honey Lee.
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outofthisworld 不愧是我 🏍
April 25, 2017 at 11:07 PM
I've noticed Kim Ji Suk for a long time, since Personal Taste. He has got that ability to get you notice him even though he's always playing secondary roles.
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Anything Chewy
April 26, 2017 at 3:29 AM
Totally! I hope he does a leading role soon.
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cloveredlioness
April 25, 2017 at 11:50 PM
When Mr. Rooftop Party and Yeonsangun became one in my eyes lol...
https://www.instagram.com/p/BTVC_YOARjb/
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keiru
April 26, 2017 at 5:07 AM
And here I am musing to myself that Yoon Kyun Sang got to work together with two actors from OHY in a row
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pogo - sailing HMS Queen of Tears and HMS Sailboat Lovely Runner🍉
April 26, 2017 at 12:16 PM
yeah, Kim Ji-suk doesn't even seem like the same person who played sweet teacher Yang in Sassy Go Go. Same with Chae Soo-bin, they both did a total 180 from their roles there.
Rebel isn't doing too badly ratings-wise and even clocked the top spot a couple of times so MBC better honour its cast at the end of the year (since the ratings argument comes ahead of the quality one)
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cloveredlioness
April 26, 2017 at 3:07 PM
This drama is too writerly for it not to...plus it has amazing performances turned in the actors and a production crew that went ALL OUT.
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keiru
April 26, 2017 at 10:44 PM
Idk.. but I'm afraid that another dramas will be stealing the spotlight at the end of the year awards, because Rebel's casts (YKS, CSB) are relatively much more unpopular compare to other actors/actresses (say, YSH and KSH, or Siwan and Yoona pairing)
I really am curious about how viewers' (and especially beanies) reaction will be towards upcoming dramas.. but for now I'll just enjoy the last two weeks of Rebel with all my heart
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11 chasen8888
April 25, 2017 at 11:00 PM
I am glad this episode focused on the rescues and mostly Gil Hyun as it shows him giving closure to Park Ha Sung, and his fingers to the king, Scholar Song and the Jos. He fully returned to the Hong fold and was warmly welcomed as he did exactly all that he needed to do helping his brother at the same time. One thing about the brothers is that they are very smart, strategic & cunning especially with their planning. They executed a safe plan that had everyone out of the palace (excluding Ga Ryung) before the king and others found out their true identities. It is important to note that the show in episode 24 showed the real Eorini's identity before the full reveal it was when we saw Gil Hyun trying to meet her and looked directly at Sang Hwa, I don't recall if Ok Ran was there.
Its not surprising that Ga Ryung does not believe that her husband is alive but is of the belief that people are carrying out his legacy because when she last saw Gil Dong he was near death, in addition there was the notice of Gil Dong's death & no other reports to change her mind. When these people announce themselves they say Hong Chum Ji not Hong Gil Dong.
This episode was fun in seeing the beyond arrogant people finding out who Gil Hyun is and how he dealt with them over the years with them not knowing who he was. Gil Hyun regain his full identity when he first saw his brother Gil Dong and after the king prove to be a tyrant he had had enough. So based on the king's actions it was very easy for the loyalties to leave him. I like how Gil Hyun chose to leave on his own terms at the same time telling the world who he is. What I would have liked to have seen is the ministers' reactions to Gil Hyun's identity what would they think of him now. Gil Hyun prepared a nice resignation letter by creating an army of people who would be loyal only to him & Gil Dong; telling the baddies who he is with subtle messages, walking away and finally the message from Gil Dong to the king saying how easy it is for him to take things from him.
It is important to note that although Eorini's name was written in the book, Scholar Song and others do not know her true identity maybe the Song bodyguard. Sang Hwa does not have an identity to them she is a spy for them alone and must serve the king for their benefit. This is interesting when you think about as it is only one time that Mori mentions Eorini when he was giving a background to Scholar Song etc.
Episode 26 was also good and I am so looking forward to the preview for 27.
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12 enkeys
April 25, 2017 at 11:01 PM
Yes, Gil-hyun is the MVP in this episode. I can't help smirking at the scene with Madam Jo. It was super satisfying. Actor Shim Hee-seob's dimples are so charming. I swear half of this episode is just him flaunting his cute dimples and I couldn't ask for more XD
I still have my doubts on who the real Eorini is until last week, but Gil-hyun's reaction at the end of this episode pretty much confirmed it. I get some you here still doubting because of Gil-dong's cold reaction to Eorini, but it's also a fact that both brothers knew that their sister lost her memories AND is a member of the Geoins. Hence, I understand why Gil-dong is being cautious around her.
As for me, I feel cheated because in the drama's naver site they said Jung Da-bin is Eorini, there were even articles released when Jung Da-bin is casted as adult Eorini. Well, at least we FINALLY got the Eorini arc out of the way, I think it's been dragged for too long.
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cloveredlioness
April 26, 2017 at 7:23 AM
I never give sources too much credit for things like that because TV shows are aware of that being potential spoiler information. /jilted Lost viewer
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cloveredlioness
April 26, 2017 at 3:10 PM
I definitely think knowing that his sister was a geoin/spy played into his reaction towards her because he had to know that she had the potential to turn against him if she didn't have memories of him.
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13 ⭐ Sera The Ms Temper ⭐
April 25, 2017 at 11:07 PM
I am no longer interested with Eorini especially after the revelation. I still perplexed how the writer/production played with audiences so we got confused but the brothers already recognized her from the first instance. The long game of Who is Uhrini has no big purpose, and looks like more on marketing purpose for that actress (she is still rookie actress so she needs something more memorable to garner more attention). LOL ok maybe I am talking nonsense but who knows, right?
OK so who saved the babies? Maybe I overlooked something, but is it means Mori could be on their side too? I am still hoping for my bad boy to change side.
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buttercup
April 25, 2017 at 11:27 PM
Nope it wasn't Mori.. Gil dong's men saved those babies.
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kiara
April 26, 2017 at 5:07 AM
The Hong clan and their smoke bombs did the rescue. Ilchung is quite the mad scientist lol.
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enkeys
April 26, 2017 at 7:35 AM
and a good makeup artist as well XD
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14 happiness
April 25, 2017 at 11:33 PM
i think gildong didn't react much when he saw uhrini because he knew she had forgotten him.. i mean when he first saw her and called out to her in the woods she didn't recognise him so he probably knew from then so he didn't make much of a scene like gilhyun did because she'd be confused idk if this makes sense
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15 itsmediji
April 26, 2017 at 12:10 AM
Gil Hyun has been my most favorite character in this drama, so this episode is gold for me.
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16 liina
April 26, 2017 at 12:17 AM
The Story of Hong Gil-dong - Chapter 4 - Gil-dong And the Robbers: Part 1 Gil-dong Becomes Leader Of a Band Of Robbers
After Gil-dong was allowed to call his father father and his brother brother, his anger against his family had vanished, but he still felt the anger at the world, that didn't allow him to use his talents, to live his dreams, to feel human inside him. He wandered aimlessly through the country.
One day he came upon a stone door in a mountain and went through and directly into a band of robbers that had a gathering (a party) there. The robbers were talking about their problem to find a leader for their gang (the robbers just wanted to rob Gil-dong). Gil-dong said he would become their leader, but the robbers (threw him out. Then Gil-dong wrote a poem in which he made a comparison between him and a tiger and a bear. As both were wild animals that were lonely even between other wild animals. The poem moved the robbers so they started to consider him seriously) wanted him to prove their strength to him (in the variants where the robbers didn't actively search for a leader they just wanted to make fun of him) and gave him one (two) tasks. They wanted him to lift a huge rock (called "Little Man", weighing ca. 6000 kg).
Gil-dong called upon the powers of the heavens and lifted the big rock. The robbers were mighty impressed and made Gil-dong their leader (gave him the second task: Liina: the second task would be the same as what is described in the other versions as Gil-dong's first criminal action as head of the robbers: the robbing of Hae-in temple).
After Gil-dong became head of the robbers, he started to train his robbers in martial arts and tactics and made a plan how to rob Hae-in temple.
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kiara
April 26, 2017 at 5:38 AM
I like the tiger and bear comparison in every Hong Gil Dong adaptation. It's what makes him stand out from every Robin Hood like story, his tiger/bear like strength.
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liina
April 26, 2017 at 11:57 AM
I like the tiger and the bear comparisons as well. It also gives the story a distinct Korean feeling, despite being heavily influenced from Chinese literature.
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17 liina
April 26, 2017 at 1:18 AM
@cloveredlioness April 25, 2017 at 1:26 PM: I think what the writer did to the Hong Gil-dong tale is really great. She gave thought to every little detail in the novel(s), the meaning of it, the overall context of it and how she would use it in the drama. It's totally great, I'm dumbstruck every episode. I have seldomly seen such a careful TV adaption of a novel! Usually TV and movie adaptions take away from the written sources. But this one might even enhance it.
My favourite changes from the parts I have already written about (I made the chapters up. The tale is not really sorted into chapters. But it was easier for me to write it in chapters and I thought it would be easier for us to talk about it) are in chapter 3, the turning of the physical confinement through the father into a psychological confinement. And then of course the whole Madam Jo character.
Also from chapter 4, the one to two tasks that (that end up to be three :)) Gil-dong has to perform to become the real leader of the robbers, the leader they trust in, not only the appointed leader. A task of strength, a task of brain, a task of heart. In the drama, the arm wrestling, the revenge plan, and the whole part where Amogae tells Gil-dong not to be the idiot that just leads his people into the next thorn bush or over the cliffs (I forgot the correct words Amogae used).
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liina
April 26, 2017 at 1:33 AM
And of course I loved that Gil-dong's family issues in the novel were solved with Gil-dong finally calling his dad dad, but in the drama his daddy issues are solved with Gil-dong calling his dad not dad but keun eoreushin :). Both scenes are acceptance scenes. No matter what you are, you are my son and I'm your dad. No matter what you are, you are my dad and I'm you son.
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enkeys
April 26, 2017 at 3:58 AM
I'm so jealous you had the chance to study the Tale of Hong Gil-dong in great details, hence you find joy in comparing this drama with the novel. Wish mum let me study literature/history in college when I asked her a few years back....anyhow, thanks for always sharing your insights :)
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kiara
April 26, 2017 at 5:41 AM
Thanks liina! I got the history down but started on the novel because of you :).
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liina
April 26, 2017 at 12:01 PM
I hope you won't be too disappointed! When I talk about the story I unintentionally make it sound like the Holy Bible. It's just a little fantasy tale though.
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kiara
April 26, 2017 at 2:41 PM
Not at all. I'm enjoying it not only as a fantasy tale but it's root in Korean culture.
I also enjoyed Arang and Chunhyangga.
It took me this long to get into Hong Gil Dong. The other two were more appealing to me because they were based on women.
cloveredlioness
April 26, 2017 at 3:16 PM
Thanks for the info liina! It was so emotional to see Gil-dong finally get onside with his dad and accept the family business/call his dad keun eoreushin (elder/master?) and later his position as the leader of Ikhwari/the merry men.
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18 reggie12
April 26, 2017 at 1:43 AM
is sang-hwa really the eorini that they are looking for cos the last part really made me doubt her.... and as for the king he might as well pee in his pants hahahahaha....
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Kendi
April 26, 2017 at 5:37 AM
I will flip a table if they make another Eorini's twist.
That isn't smart, that is trying too hard and failing miserably.
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19 liina
April 26, 2017 at 2:42 AM
The Story of Hong Gil-dong - Things I left out
The boy playing a flute while sitting on a donkey
This is from Gil-dong's fight with the assassin. In some old text versions during the fight a strange mist occurs and transports the assassin to another realm where he meets a boy that is sitting on a donkey playing a flute. The boy is Gil-dong.
I left that out, because I think this part is so deeply taoistic that it's not easily to understand especially for westerners like myself. I still think it would be interesting for the drama. I honestly never found a meaning for a boy+donkey+flute. I personally think, that it is supposed to be a mixture of two of the eight taoist immortals. Zhang Guolao and Han Xiangzi. Han Xiangzi is the patron of musicians and he usually is depicted playing the flute, his music is soothing and peacing, calming down even wild animals. Zhang Guolao is the chaotic, eccentric and impish immortal, that loves to drink and can transform himself into a BAT (!!!). He is depicted riding a donkey (often he is riding it while sitting backwards ;)).
I think the writer of the drama has the same interpretation for the donkey flute boy. And I think she used the Han Xiangzi - Longnu love story as model for the Gil-dong Gong-hwa love story. Especially because that love story ended with Longnu leaving and getting locked up in the palace by the Dragon King of the Sea, while Han Xiangzi was left heartbroken (and then getting married and ignoring his wife for ages - at least Gil-dong married Ga-ryung when he had stopped ignoring her...)
The other things I left out are a) Gil-dong summoning a spirit animal while fighting the assassin. b) Gil-dong going through a mountain tigers but not being harmed by the tigers. I left them out - even though - this parts were used in the drama - because I don't recall them from the old manuscripts, but from children book adaptions and so I can't be hundred percent sure, if they really are from the old manuscripts.
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liina
April 26, 2017 at 2:44 AM
a mountain WITH tigers, not a mountain tigers...
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latteholic
April 26, 2017 at 3:34 AM
Thanks so much for this @liina! Can't wait to read this and your Hong Gil Dong cliffsnotes in the last episode recap after dealing with RL today.
re:Movie/TV Drama adaptation, even with The Lord Of The Rings trilogy which I think was a great movie, I still felt a bit disappointed because they cut some of my favorite parts from the novels (which makes sense because otherwise that movie adaptation would have made Gone With The Wind seems like a trailer), so I'm glad to read that you think that this drama version actually enhance what you have read :)
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liina
April 26, 2017 at 2:19 PM
The boy playing the flute while sitting on a donkey is also featured in this episode. The smoke bombs are the mist and Yeonsan is suddenly alone (o.k., he is not really alone but everybody else is on the ground) with Gil-dong who aproaches him on a don... horse. The scenery changes to a vast landscape. And then he has a serious talk with the king.
These mist, donkey flute scenes they are often used when Gil-dong warns his adversaries. He usually also gives them a chance to change their ways. They are also used when he is scolding somebody for not taking his advice and when he announces a verdict.
Regarding Han Xiangzi and Longnu. He is the only human that has ever seen her true form. That would also feature into a Gil-dong-Gong-hwa parallel.
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cloveredlioness
April 26, 2017 at 3:25 PM
When I was watching the behind the scenes videos, I couldn't help but think that Yoon Kyun-sang is too tall for his horse...which made it look donkey-ish, I suppose lol. They could have gotten him a taller/bigger horse, or maybe stuck him on a big draft horse (workhorse).
Oooh. It's so true that Gil-dong is the only one that ever saw the real Gong-hwa and she puts up airs for everyone else. And now it's too late for her to show any vulnerability to anyone.
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cloveredlioness
April 26, 2017 at 3:21 PM
Bat LOL! Bats are lucky in Asian culture. You'll actually find bats decorated in the walls of the Forbidden City palace in Beijing. That's because bat in Chinese sounds like/is a homonym for the word fortune. So bats are a symbol of good fortune.
Strange mist and assassins huh? Sounds like the mist/smoke they used to steal the babies and cause chaos at the palace.
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liina
April 27, 2017 at 12:41 AM
The Hong robbers also occasionally take on the forms of the Eight Happy Taoist Immortals - They are signs for good fortune as well.
I think it is fun, because that contemporary Shadow organisation that is interwoven in the decription of Scholar Song is named "Eight Fairies". So in the drama it's Eight Happy Immortals vs Eight fairies. :)
Ga-ryung would be He Xian'gu. The female immortal.
Amogae would be Li Tieguai. The one with the messy hair, the crutch and the gourd. The fighter for the poor and oppressed.
Eobsan as Lan Caihe. The androgynous immortal.
I'm not quite sure but I think Segeol is presenting Lü Dongbin. Because of that episode where Gil-dong and friends drag him out of the Gibang.
Ilchun as Zhongli Quan. The alchemistic immortal with a fan, that can turn stones into silver and resurrect the dead.
Yeonggae as Cao Guojiu. The fearful immortal that overcame cowardness. and returned to the group of immortals.
Seoboori as Zhang Guolao. The patron of the newlyweds. The elder immortal of wisdom.
That would leave Han Xiangzi for Kkeutswe. Which would make sense considering the fact that Han Xiangzi was a rather peaceful happy immortal.
Gil-dong of course is Sun Wukong, the monkey king, the one that helped the Eight Taoists to reach immortality.
I also think Cao Guojiu was further used for the story of Mori. Since the story of Cao Guojiu has resemblance to the second assassin character in the Hong Gil-dong tale. And there already are resemblances in the Drama. But I think I will just have to wait and see, what will happen.
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cloveredlioness
April 27, 2017 at 1:07 AM
OOOOOH. Thanks for that. I've actually been thinking Gil-dong is Sun Wukong for awhile...but it was solidified for me in the next episode...(to be discussed over there lol)
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liina
April 27, 2017 at 3:08 AM
Sigh, I had been so happy that Sun Wukong was left out and now he is in again... The thing is Sun Wukong's powers are so incredibly powerful. I liked that the drama felt so real despite the supernatural aspect of the Mighty child. It felt a lot more real Joseon to me than some "real" sageuks of recent date. With the arriving of batman superpowers and Sun Wukong that feeling is gone. :(
I'll just have to embrace Taoism and Shamanism then. At the moment I'm in the process of getting used to it. It has some nice aspects as well.
cloveredlioness
April 27, 2017 at 2:04 PM
@liina I think the Sun Wukong/Journey to the West stuff is more metaphorical...it's like a thread for Gil-dong's journey more than him actually being Sun Wukong in terms of his powers. I really want to get into it, but I think it's better served in the next recap lol.
kiara
April 28, 2017 at 7:45 AM
@liina
I don't have a problem with the mighty child and the superhuman aspect behind Gil Dong's strength. Even Im Kkeok Jeong is said to have a bearlike strength so it felt real.
I was a bit disappointed when they added more mighty children to the story. It kind of take away from Gil Dong's unique abilities. There was already rules to keep it under control and I felt like that there was no need for another to level the battle field.
liina
April 28, 2017 at 9:12 AM
@cloveredlioness
You are right. There were no Sun Wukong powers used in episode 26 despite some certain Sun Wukong symbols being shown. Just the Mighty Child powers. This most unpatient person has again worried much to early... :( - I'm looking forward to your episode 26 comments!
@kiara
You have a good point! Since the "strong like a bear and fast like a tiger" (haha, it sounds like Brave Star" ;)) comes from the spirit animals of the clan times and is related to shamanism and since shamanism still had a place in the world of Joseon's peasants and animal spirits feature in Joseon tales and legends (and in older ones of course), the Mighty Child actually does add to the atmosphere. Like the scenes from events a peasants life would center around: funeral, birth, wedding; and the wistful feeling of Han that was especially strong in some of the early episodes.
cloveredlioness
April 28, 2017 at 12:29 PM
@kiara I always thought it was kind of inevitable that Mori was a Mighty Child once it was revealed his father tried to kill him when he was six years old.
Also, it's kind of a classic trope that you have to balance out the powers between your hero and antagonist, so by that framing it makes sense that Mori is on the other side for now. Gil-dong would be too overpowered otherwise. (On a more cheap note, the production probably wanted to have epic mighty children throw down battles lol)
I do however, think that Mori also provides a valuable foil to Gil-dong. He's what Gil-dong could have been had he taken different paths, if his circumstances had been different. Instead of finding his own path, he could be a pawn under the thumb of others, having his powers serve the highest bidder.
I mean, I think we all want Gil-dong to be special and the ONLY mighty child, but I think it's more valuable to the story that he's not because then we can explore the choices that others make.
kiara
April 28, 2017 at 4:27 PM
@liina, @cloveredlioness
Thanks for the explanation! I think I'm trying to deny the fact that this is a fusion sageuk :).
cloveredlioness
April 27, 2017 at 2:15 AM
I also want to talk about Ga-ryung as He Xian gu...but again, it involves stuff from the next episode.
LOL for Soboori being Zhang Guolao because he LITERALLY married Gil-ryung. Hopefully that means he'll keep them together.
Ilchung as the alchemist is interesting because he's also a monk and I can see him metaphorically resurrecting the dead as a monk by helping people find inner peace.
Yong-gae's immortal is also just perfect.
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liina
April 27, 2017 at 3:00 AM
If Mori really should partially resemble Cao Guojiu it would have made sense to call Ga-ryung a young widow in the character description, because the first scene we see Ga-ryung in would from Cao Guojiu's story point of view be the part where he "kills" the young widow.
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latteholic
April 27, 2017 at 3:35 AM
LOL! He is the prettiest cross-dresser out of them all...
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20 applecrumble
April 26, 2017 at 2:54 AM
This episode is so awesome!
I was really nervous when the terrible trio realized who Gilhyun really was! So happy when Gilhyun made it safely to the hide-out and reunited with his "family"!
I recalled somewhere in ep 7 or 8 when Gilhyun was at Park Hasung's dead grandfather's house, he read the grandpa's will, which asked for any passerby to fulfill his wishes. Now I wonder, what did the will ask him to do?
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kiara
April 26, 2017 at 6:31 AM
Grandfather Park did not support King Sejo's coup that led to the dethronement of his young nephew so he left his government post and live in the mountain.
Yeonsan is King Sejo's grandson. It must have something to do with him or Scholar Song and his followers.
Maybe Gil Hyun knew what he was supposed to do with Scholar Song from the beginning. He is going to ruin him and whatever plan he was making.
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cloveredlioness
April 26, 2017 at 3:27 PM
That's probably one of the last mysteries of this series since we now know about who all the missing people/servants were...the geoin. But it would be interesting if that's what Grandpa Park wanted...because if so, Gil-hyun did it was aplomb!
I also think Gil-hyun didn't initially set out to make Grandpa Park's wishes come true. He'd always wanted to be a scholar, rise up the ranks and serve the king. And he got that. He was good at it. But he wasn't about to lose his soul...and eventually, he had to ride his own path.
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kiara
April 28, 2017 at 7:54 AM
It is a mystery alright. I can't for the life of me figure out what a retired scholar with a grudge would want a stranger to do for him.
Did someone kill his son, the real Park Ha-sun? Obviously grandpa buried his own son and Gil Hyung buried grandpa Park.
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PakalanaPikake
April 28, 2017 at 5:50 PM
@kiara April 28, 2017 at 7:54 AM
"Obviously grandpa buried his own son and Gil Hyung buried grandpa Park."
Grandpa Park also had a daughter-in-law who died, but there were only three graves. Shouldn't there have been four? Or did I miss one?
pogo - sailing HMS Queen of Tears and HMS Sailboat Lovely Runner🍉
April 28, 2017 at 3:16 PM
WHOA if that was what Grandpa Park wanted. I really hope we get to see the contents of that letter!
Both Gil-hyun and Gil-dong started out believing in the system for the most part, which is why they both were initially supporters of the king. And Gil-dong is right when he says Yeonsangun is the one who made him what he is - if he wasn't a crazy piece of work, Gil-hyun and Gil-dong wouldn't have turned against him.
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21 liina
April 26, 2017 at 3:06 AM
@Flowers and trees and paintings
In last episode recaps cloveredlioness brought up the irworobongdo, the Sun-Moon-Five-Peaks painting from Korea's throne rooms, when we were talking about Yin and Yang. I couldn't help but noticing all the other folding screens in the palace (I blame you cloveredlioness! - Just kidding ;)). Yeonsan has a shipjangsaeng, a 10 symbol of longvity painting, in his more private chamber. It's really pretty, I want to steal it! :)
But Nok-soo's folding screen is one of a cherry tree with cherry blossoms. It's pretty too. But it's painted on a black background. It's elegant, but not natural. Which would add to Cloveredlioness's, PakalanaPikake's and Latteholic's observation that Nok-soo in the drama is pictured surrounded by artificial flowers.
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cloveredlioness
April 26, 2017 at 7:19 AM
Everything around Nok-soo has become more and more deathly and ominous as time goes on. In the last few episodes, she's starting to look more worn down. (But you never know if the actor is just tired lol or if it's intentional. ) I think her consort hairstyle also starts to get more of these smaller braids in the front which just makes it look like she's being held out weighed down.
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pogo - sailing HMS Queen of Tears and HMS Sailboat Lovely Runner🍉
April 26, 2017 at 11:03 AM
I never noticed that point about all the artificial flower objects/imagery around her (hairpins, screens, clothing) but that is a pretty genius observation - the palace has sapped her vitality in more ways than one, and the strain of survival is telling (works equally well if it's the effect of the live shoot that makes Honey Lee look so strained).
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cloveredlioness
April 26, 2017 at 3:49 PM
Nok-soo is basically the only woman who is consistently portrayed with flowers that are only made of jewels/rocks etc, every other woman is usually portrayed wearing live flowers or around live flowers. So it's a very interesting contrast.
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22 Kendi
April 26, 2017 at 5:32 AM
I can't stand Gil Dong's smirk tbh. I think I can feel Yoon Kyun Sang weakness as an actor here. His approach feels methodic. Dunno whether it's the lack of intensity or his poker face. I hate when his almost constipated face shows up which is almost all the time (if you know what I mean lol).
Acting wise, almost everyone else killed it here, especially the mad king. I love that he isn't as cartoonish as advertised and to nod the previous comment, Gil Hyun is the MVP in this episode.
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kiara
April 26, 2017 at 6:10 AM
He is good when he imitate Kim Sang-joong's Amogae. It's like what he did with Jo Jin-Woong's Moo-hyul in SFD.
I think he is best in action scenes but there is a lack of well choreograph fights scenes here unlike SFD.
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pogo - sailing HMS Queen of Tears and HMS Sailboat Lovely Runner🍉
April 26, 2017 at 10:41 AM
yeah, I feel like Amogae's whimsicality comes to him more naturally than the gravitas so he does that well. And I do think YKS is good when he actually gets to express emotion or play off someone and not just give orders/make plans (which is something he has to do a lot as this particular character) - I've liked every interaction he's had with a character one-on-one, from Gil-hyun and his father, down to Ga-ryung.
I like the fight scenes here but I suspect that may just be because of their soundtracks lol. The music of this drama really is A++++++, and hands down the best sageuk soundtrack I've ever heard in all my years of watching dramas.
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kiara
April 26, 2017 at 2:58 PM
If that was a substitute for the excellent soundtrack then it was worth it.
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lush
April 26, 2017 at 4:32 PM
ahn yeeun is the future of sageuk soundtracks man. incredible artist
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keiru
April 26, 2017 at 6:39 PM
I'm waiting for any future dramas to be able to beat Rebel's awesome OSTs (!) on my top favorite playlist. It's like replacing Dae Janggeum's OSTs by Hwang Ji Ni's then QSD took over and the last one was SFD..
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cloveredlioness
April 26, 2017 at 9:04 PM
I don't think it's possible. Rebel just has a KILLER OST/incidental music (score) combo punch. I think Legend of the Blue Sea had great incidental music, but the OST was kinda just typical OST stuff. But I also LOVE the Oh Hae-young OST along with Touch Love from Master's Sun where I felt I was literally watching an episode just to hear that song get played lol.
pogo - sailing HMS Queen of Tears and HMS Sailboat Lovely Runner🍉
April 27, 2017 at 10:49 AM
@cloveredlioness - yeah, Rebel is that rare drama where the OSTs AND the background scores are flawless, and by goodness does the director know how and when to use them! (also agreed on Master's Sun, that was another drama with great background scores/ending theme+Touch Love, Oh Joon-sung s one of the best drama composers around)
Another thing I have to applaud the production for is keeping the music era-appropriate, at least in feel - I love that we've had so many traditional performances, but the PD is still wise enough to not undermine that with too-modern sounding OSTs like most sageuks do.
cloveredlioness
April 27, 2017 at 2:09 PM
@pogo1 I think Oh Joon-sung's score/music has grown A LOT. Like I love City Hunter, but the score there is either awesome...or it's kinda lacklustre and sticks out too much.
The feel of the score/OST in this drama is just perfect. I love how they used sort of a cowboy/western feel for some tracks, wuxia style songs and then just full on traditional music with electric guitar. And when the play 'If Spring Comes' it's just rousing every single time.
Apart from Oh Hae-young, I've never felt such perfection from a drama in terms of the music/OST combo.
keiru
April 28, 2017 at 3:50 AM
Ie'm waiting for any future dramas to be able to beat Rebel's awesome OSTs (!) on my top favorite playlist
enkeys
April 26, 2017 at 9:53 PM
Having a good soundtrack is one, but more importantly is having a good sense of WHEN to use the soundtracks. For this I applaud the director.
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pogo - sailing HMS Queen of Tears and HMS Sailboat Lovely Runner🍉
April 26, 2017 at 11:45 AM
yeah, Yoon Kyun-sang trips up a bit on the sitting-around-and-planning-things/giving orders part, which is a bit troublesome here because it's a big chunk of his role. And the choice to make Gil-dong so inscrutable at times didn't help - I've said it before, he's far more interesting in one-on-one interactions or when allowed to express emotion, than as the clan head/rebellion figurehead (though it worked for me at first, since YKS's slight stiffness made sense for someone who was effectively thrust into a role he never anticipated and had no preparation for).
Gil-hyun was such an MVP this episode, I actually want to bow down in awe.
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nico8
April 26, 2017 at 11:19 PM
+1
He's really good at expressing emotions but doesn't really have enough charisma to get him through the leader part of his character.
(tho for me, it's totally negligible. he makes up for it anyway haha)
((this is also the reason why i want to see him in a different genre. YKS said it himself: time to give sageuks a rest))
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pogo - sailing HMS Queen of Tears and HMS Sailboat Lovely Runner🍉
April 27, 2017 at 9:15 AM
I think I'm probably being a little too harsh on YKS - I really do love him in the role and he has great chemistry with everyone, I really can't imagine anyone else pulling off Gil-dong the way he has (plus his height and build are assets that he uses very well to make Gil-dong's strength believable).
And yeah, I don't really mind the things I complained about either. He's taken on a lot of Amogae's mannerisms, but in a way that's believable on a young man.
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lush
April 26, 2017 at 4:30 PM
haha, i think kyunsang's doing an alright job, but he does kind of lack the charisma to pull off that 'tough and confident' image. nothing that bothers me too much though
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pogo - sailing HMS Queen of Tears and HMS Sailboat Lovely Runner🍉
April 27, 2017 at 9:23 AM
yeah, at this point the drama is p much going with people outside the Hong family following Gil-dong not because he's a super charismatic leader, but because of what he's actually done to oppose the unjust system - which is smart on multiple levels.
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cloveredlioness
April 27, 2017 at 9:38 PM
I agree and I think the lack of charisma in his leadership is also because Gil-dong is/was pretty new at being a leader, much less a leader of a criminal enterprise that he never wanted to be in. But I think now that he's started to feel compassion for others and become more open and vulnerable to others, he shows more authenticity than before.
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23 esj000
April 26, 2017 at 6:53 AM
The 'who is Eorini' game didn't really bother me because I was fine with either girl anyway but if it were up to me I would've made the reveal much sooner, and given Eorini/Sang Hwa an arc similar in complexity to Gil Hyun's. Actually, like Gil Hyun had Soo Hak, Sang Hwa had Ok Ran (except she's not evil) so that could have been explored too. I'm not going to spoil the next episode but her story as had enough material to do it.
Really loved Gil Hyun in this episode, agree with everyone else that Lady Jo's reaction when she learned the truth was immensely satisfying. Can't wait to read everyone's comments in the next recap.
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24 esj000
April 26, 2017 at 7:14 AM
I came across this write-up on class and nobility in sageuk, specifically this drama, it makes some interesting points. http://swordsandparasols.tumblr.com/post/159887600235/rebel-saimdang-and-the-romanticization-of-class
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cloveredlioness
April 26, 2017 at 3:32 PM
Thanks for that! That tumblr is also worth checking out for other posts/analysis on the drama!
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25 pogo - sailing HMS Queen of Tears and HMS Sailboat Lovely Runner🍉
April 26, 2017 at 11:12 AM
(this is going to be long so I might break it up)
I'm glad we finally have an answer to the who's-the-Eorini question, but what annoys me most isn't even anything they did onscreen with it, but the fact that this drama chose to do the usual dumb kdrama thing of spoiling key plot/character turns through its publicity material (sure we all know Gil-dong will become a hero and history is enough of a spoiler on other things, but there was zero reason to tell us Ga-ryung would end up in the palace) and trying to use offscreen news surrounding the casting of Jung Da-bin to pull one over on the viewer. This drama only gets away with it because it has a fair bit of suspense to spare, and I enjoy that.
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Chandler
April 26, 2017 at 11:44 AM
I haven't caught up with this episode yet, but saw your comment on the Beanies page and had to come over just to agree with it. I was literally going to write this post, but unfortunately I'm quite late to the recaps these days.
Why, oh why would they give away story turns saved for past the 10-episode mark and in the character descriptions of all things? Makes no sense whatsoever.
I ultimately ended up somewhat satisfied with the Eorini question, because, well, I was right about it. But it was still pretty manipulative on the show's part. And it was never an interesting enough mystery to justify that kind of writing. Especially since we were so aware of the narrative hand jerking us around.
I'd really much rather we got to the much more emotionally-involving ramifications of the siblings' reunion sooner, rather then spending so much time on this.
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pogo - sailing HMS Queen of Tears and HMS Sailboat Lovely Runner🍉
April 26, 2017 at 11:52 AM
My sentiments exactly - when you've engineered a situation where you have effectively told your viewer major plot points well in advance (and not even the way the episode 1 flash-forward did it, but in the clumsiest way possible) and then resort to more offscreen shenanigans to try to generate interest around a completely pointless side plot of who's-the-Eorini, you're doing something wrong.
Like you, I'm happy with the revelation that Eorini is the girl with some backbone to her, but I never saw the point in the 'is she played by the more famous actress or the one that looks more like her?' question. - it's pointless and, like you said, this is where we feel the narrative hand jerking us around - which I haven't with any other part of the story.
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⭐ Sera The Ms Temper ⭐
April 28, 2017 at 3:30 PM
I feel betrayed with the writer, and this plot is quite useless. I wont be that frustrated on which girl if they didnt spent so many episode on this plot. Because we all thought, the brothers will get confused (at least it serves the purpose there) but it was like to troll audiences since brothers recognized her right away. lol.
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26 pogo - sailing HMS Queen of Tears and HMS Sailboat Lovely Runner🍉
April 26, 2017 at 11:29 AM
Also, re: Gil-hyun, that was absolutely fantastic and a brilliant way to wrap up his time at the palace. I knew he'd survive for a while yet, given his presence at Gil-dong's side in that ep 1 flash-forward scene - yay for getting to see the Gil-dong/Yeonsangun confrontation here! - but the way it concluded totally bucked convention on how this normally goes. Gil-hyun outing himself, tricking the King into handing over soldiers who were sick of him, and departing his 'loyal subject' pantomine on his own terms is absolutely brilliant.
And that goes double, not least because he started out sincerely believing that the people he'd come to serve were on the good side - his performance as Park Ha-sung was one hundred percent genuine at first because he believed so hard in his job. It wasn't until after the scales fell from his eyes that he turned against Song Sabu and the King, and that's what makes him doubly dangerous to them, because he's turned right under their noses but had the presence of mind to keep it silent and never let anyone suspect (he suited that undercover job better than he ever knew lol). Plus he's double the badass because for years, he was completely alone in the world, as far as he knew (the vision of Amogae appearing to Gil-hyun on his death made me a little weepy), and still managed to survive the strain of bearing a false identity and making it through the viper's nest that is the palace without compromising himself.
I didn't think at the start of this drama that Gil-hyun would have such a major role, but he's one of the unexpected gems of this drama to me and I'm really glad we're getting 30 episodes, not least because it allowed Gil-hyun this level of fleshing out.
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cloveredlioness
April 26, 2017 at 3:37 PM
The reversal of expectation, that Gil-hyun would be caught was just so endlessly satisfying. You go from that fear of him being caught to just WANTING Gil-hyun to out himself to Madame Jo and he does. Then, when she and Pedo Prince (plus everyone else) finally figure out his double cross, it's just incredible.
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pogo - sailing HMS Queen of Tears and HMS Sailboat Lovely Runner🍉
April 26, 2017 at 7:56 PM
yeah, it's absolutely beautiful, and double the thrill to see Gil-hyun getting away with it.
Also one brother has already been caught and tortured, I think that's enough from one family lol.
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cloveredlioness
April 26, 2017 at 9:00 PM
I will be pissed if they pull a JK Rowling and kill off one of the siblings.
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27 pogo - sailing HMS Queen of Tears and HMS Sailboat Lovely Runner🍉
April 26, 2017 at 11:37 AM
Oh, and last but not least - Yeonsangun himself. There's a common saying in comic book movie circles that your story is only as good as ts villain, and the King is a FANTASTIC villain. A character like Gil-dong needs a worthy villain to make the conflict compelling, and the king - in all his selfishness, paranoia and pettiness, makes for a perfect foil to Gil-dong (Kim Ji-suk is really killing it, which is amazing)
In the best tradition of drama villains, he's almost sympathetic, which is what makes him doubly awful and compelling at the same time - it's impossible to look away from a character who's so utterly warped but vulnerable, even as I want to snap his neck.
(oh and it is a MASSIVE trip to see him and Chae Soo-bin in this drama, it's like a reversal in every way of their roles from Sassy Go Go)
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kiara
April 26, 2017 at 3:22 PM
There is a lot to work with when it comes to Yeonsangun. He topped Joseon's worst king list which make him one of the best villain lol.
I think those historiographers were more than happy to expose him in great details. He forced them to handover the official records even though he wasn't allowed to read them.
I haven't seen an actor who portrayed Yeonsan that I didn't like. Jung Jin-young, Jin Tae-hyun, Kim Ji-suk, Ahn Jae-mo <3, Kim Kang-woo etc.
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⭐ Sera The Ms Temper ⭐
April 28, 2017 at 3:35 PM
The next version of Yeonsan will be Lee Dong Gun in Seven Days Queen. I dont know if I will be excited to see the idea to see Yeonsan twice in a year,lol.
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kiara
April 28, 2017 at 4:44 PM
Same. Sadly I'm not a fan of the actor and I've been disappointed with KBS's sageuks lately.
Maybe he'd surprise me although I doubt he'd do better than Kim Ji-suk.
I'd be more excited about it if it's a MBC sageuk. KBS used to be really good. I'm not sure what the heck they are doing with their sageuk writers.
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⭐ Sera The Ms Temper ⭐
April 29, 2017 at 6:11 AM
Lee Dong Gun is just an Ok/ mediocre actor that I have no reason to watch his drama except I really like his co-star. I will probably watch Seven Days Queen for a few first epi since I love Yeon Woo Jin and see how it goes. I doubt he will be as good as Kim Ji Suk, but who knows.
28 liina
April 26, 2017 at 2:50 PM
The Story of Hong Gil-dong - Things I left out 2
Bloodbrothers
I left this out, because it's also something I wanted to explain a little bit further. But it is also used in the drama (luckily without the horse).
Gil-dong, after becoming the leader of the robbers, he and the robbers slaughter a white horse and they use the blood of the horse to swear that they will be loyal to each other until the day they die.
That scene is a really, really famous scene from the Chinese classic Sanguozhi yanyi (Romance of the Three Kingdoms), which is called "Oath of the Peach Garden". Liu Bei, Guan Yu and Zhang Fei swore their loyality to each other with the famous words (freely expressed): "Although we are not born on the same day, same month, same year, we seek to die on the same day, same month, same year. May heaven and earth be witness for the truths in our hearts. May heaven and earth strike us down, if we ever betray our frienship" It's the East Asian oath of all oathes when it comes to brotherhood (and Triad movies ;)) and it's foreboding for Hong Gil-dong because Liu Bei, Guan Yu and Zhang Fei in addition swore that they want to to help the people in need and work for the good of the nation.
Another thing I wanted to add about the "Hong Gil-dong and the robbers" part: that's the part of the tale that is inspired by Im Kkeokjeong. The organisation of the robbers, the hideout, etc..
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cloveredlioness
April 26, 2017 at 3:44 PM
OOOH. So the Ikhwari oath with Amogae and the 7 dwarfs before they became the Hongvengers! (I'm glad no horse had to die.)
I also feel like there's a pretty big Romance of the Three Kingdoms influence in this drama because of all the clever ways Gil-dong will go about getting his wins, since so much of Romance of the Three Kingdoms is about using your brains to decimate your enemy like the alcohol sales, stealing weapons from the Royal Armoury (that's very Borrowing arrows from straw boats).
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29 liina
April 26, 2017 at 3:57 PM
There are some things from the novel that I wanted to tell in regards to Teacher Song, Ga-ryung, Eorini and Ok-ran.
As I have said once before. Originally Gil-dong has two to three wives. As this adaption will most likely let him have only one wife, there is a possibility that the other one to two wives would be the sister(s). In that case the who is Eorini game wouldn't be without a sense and wouldn't be meant for us as a guessing game but as a possibility for us to develop the same feeling for both girls. There is another reason why I think there were some thoughts behind the Eorini game, but that's something for next episodes recap.
In the novel the two to three girls get abducted by the euldong king. The euldongs are shapeshifters. They take on the form of humans but they are monsters inside.
Before this episode I thought the euldong King would be Yeonsan, since he is a king and the girls are in the palace, but now I think the euldong King is teacher Song and the other euldongs his underlings + Prince Choongwon, because Eorini got abducted by that group and Ga-ryung later is in Mo-ri's hands.
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cloveredlioness
April 26, 2017 at 5:36 PM
If that's the case, then I guess that's where Gil-dong's 'sisterly connection' comes from initially towards Ga-ryung.
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liina
April 26, 2017 at 7:01 PM
I don't know. I thought she just was very young back then. He was already 22.
I also think that both girls, Ga-ryung and Eorini, are a little nod to Heo Gyun. Since Heo Gyun had a brother and a sister as well and he and his brother wholeheartedly supported the sisters writing ambitions.
And I do think Eorini, Ok-ran and Ga-ryung might present the trinity of the great mother godess Mago. Or in other words: Mago and her two daughters. Since Ga-ryung is always feeding porridge to people. Mago is the protector of women. She is also the one that heales, gives life and creates a nourishing environment for mankind. She became a taoist goddess when she started feeding porridge to ill people despite the fact that she was forbidden to do so.
And Gil-dong and the shaman at the moment play yin and yang as guardian spirits. He as the great general of the heavens and she as the female great general of underground. - I'm only speculating. Mago too - just a speculation. Very far fetched speculations.
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kiara
April 26, 2017 at 8:55 PM
Heo Gyun needs his story told in his own sageuk like Jo Gwang-jo. I'd watch the heck out of it.
He is the real life nobel/scholar rebel of his time to me.
A top scholar who wrote a story of an illegitimate child as the hero? How dare he.
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liina
April 27, 2017 at 2:20 AM
I honestly wonder where Jo Gwang-jo is hiding in this drama. Don't they need him soon? - They can't use Jungjong as a symbol for the ideal confucian nation! I have objections against that! - I honestly have no clue how they will bring the historical part of the drama to a satisfying end.
latteholic
April 27, 2017 at 4:00 AM
@liina: I wonder if the scholar whom he worked with to frame Choongwongoon will finally play a part in this. Since I think he's a student of Kim Jong Jik's disciples.
Or someone who is sympathizing with his cause as well. Something that the next episode is hinting to that.
Keeping my fingers crossed that the historical part of the drama will have a satisfying end as well.
kiara
April 27, 2017 at 6:12 AM
@liina
Historically, Jo Gwang-jo should be in exile. If he is going to make an appearance then it would be after Yeonsan's dethronement.
If we go with the drama @latteholic has a point. He might be scholar Song's pretend follower. (he's too quiet and mellow to be the historical Jo Gwang-jo though).
Maybe they are not going to include him this late. Park Won-jong who led the coup is not even in the drama so maybe Gil Hyun/Park Ha-sun will take Park's place?
latteholic
April 27, 2017 at 6:51 AM
@kiara there's also that scholar who Gil Dong helped while he was still in Hanyang. There has been too many flashbacks of him every time he showed up in recent episodes so he might be relevant as well? I complained a lot about those overused flashbacks back then, but now I'm starting to think that they're trying to tell us that these people are going to play an important roles later. Cue next episode's character.
liina
April 27, 2017 at 7:22 AM
@kiara: yup, that's what I want him for. For an outlook in the future for after the dethronement. But he isn't mentioned and I don't see anybody connected. O.k., it's probably too early. Gil-dong is just starting to collect people and he hasn't even planned on ousting the king. I have always this "don't mess up in the end, drama!" panic (burned child...). I want the Hong thieves to be able to retire to the countryside...
Who is scholar Song's pretend follower?
The guy who took young Eorini to scholar Song?
@latteholic: I think you have a point as well. I have to have more patience. (Patience is no friend of mine...)
kiara
April 28, 2017 at 8:05 AM
@liina
Yes, that scholar who took Eorini but didn't tell scholar Song that she is Gil Dong's sister. I think he was the one who changed her name too.
@latteholic
I remember him but not his name :(.
PakalanaPikake
April 28, 2017 at 5:30 PM
@liina April 27, 2017 at 2:20 AM:
"They can't use Jungjong as a symbol for the ideal confucian nation! I have objections against that! "
Considering how Jungjong is being portrayed in SAIMDANG, I can understand your objection. ;-)
cloveredlioness
April 26, 2017 at 8:59 PM
True. I always for some reason think of Ga-ryung as being around 16ish when they first meet. (Even though we have no evidence of that whatsoever)
OMG...Ga-ryung LITERALLY fed at least two people porridge she was forbidden to, Amogae when he was injured (trying to be helpful and Gil-dong was all BAAACK OFFFFFF! She was the primary one who nursed him back to health) and Ok-ran while she was in jail.
I can also see Ga-ryung as a mother figure to both Sang-hwa/Eorini and Ok-ran in the palace.
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pogo - sailing HMS Queen of Tears and HMS Sailboat Lovely Runner🍉
April 27, 2017 at 8:21 AM
well, Eorini is 13 around the time Gil-dong and Ga-ryung first meet (he leaves the gibang to give his sister her birthday present before all hell breaks loose) and Ga-ryung looks a few years older than that, so 16 is a good guess. Also Gil-dong is at least 6-7 years older than Eorini based on the age of the child actor, so that would make him around 20 at the time?
Also, Ga-ryung is a former gibang maid - she knows a fair bit about taking care of people to begin with, so I can certainly see her moving with great ease into a mother figure role, especially towards Gil-dong's baby sister.
liina
April 27, 2017 at 9:28 AM
@pogo Eobsan said he is a year older than Gil-dong and Eobsan was 10 at the time of Eorini's birth. That means Gil-dong was 22 years old.
liina
April 27, 2017 at 9:59 AM
@pogo sry, just forget what I said, my mistake! He ist just saying that he is older than Gil-dong not one year older.
pogo - sailing HMS Queen of Tears and HMS Sailboat Lovely Runner🍉
April 27, 2017 at 11:03 AM
@liina - no worries! iirc Eob-san was the same age as Gil-hyun, which makes sense since they're friends.
I do, however, seem to have lost track of how old Gil-dong is now - I can't remember how many years have passed, only that we're now in the year before Yeonsangun is overthrown (and I'm honestly worried Gil-dong and the Hongs aren't going to survive it).
cloveredlioness
April 27, 2017 at 9:59 PM
@liina @pogo1 I think Eop-san is a little older than Gil-hyun because if I remember correctly, he was everyone's hyung back on the Jos' property.
It's really hard to keep track of the ages, since they never give us hard, specific dates, but Gil-dong must be close to 30...around 28 to 30. There's that four year time jump, but it feels like the events that happen onscreen really take place over years since they make references to 'Back in 1498...' or things like that. Like, we have Yeonsangun's second purge in 1504, but we're now we must be in 1505. Plus, after the time jump, I swear we must have been in 1502, since the first purge was in 1498, but then when we got the second one, I was like...I guess it's 1504 now lol.
30 annerl
April 26, 2017 at 5:05 PM
OOOOHHHHH!!! Gil-hyun you're a bloody good double agent! Even Scholar Song that rat-sniffing bloodhound did not at all doubt Gil-hyun's involvement in all of this, but actually doubted Nok-soo instead. Bloody brilliant!
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31 cloveredlioness
April 26, 2017 at 7:48 PM
Random Thoughts:
1. I mentioned this earlier, but bats in Chinese culture are lucky because the word for bat sounds the same as/is a homonym for fortune or luck. So I think when Gil-dong is soaring down to Yeonsangun like an epically cheesy bat, it's symbolic of Gil-dong have fortune/luck on his side.
2. Their smoke bombs have definitely become a signature move and it was totally why I thought that the Hongvengers had rescued the babies on their escape from prison.
3. I find it hilarious that Yeonsangun plays into Gil-dong's hands every single time. He reacts emotionally, eschews logic and just goes barrelling after Gil-dong ALONE. It's also amusing that his horse just appears, saddled and ready to take him after Gil-dong. (He's a man with a plan lol)
4. I think Ga-ryung showing her caring for the other gisaengs, staying to potentially rescue Sang-hwa and trying to save Ok-ran, is eventually going to help her if/when Nok-soo betrays her. She will have been able to build a coterie of loyal friends/subjects because she is the true queen due to her queenly/motherly actions. She has always tried her best to defend the weak when she could. Therefore, Ok-ran repays her actions by staying and waiting for Ga-ryung which is a BIG effing deal because it means she has to face possible execution. This is the level of loyalty Ga-ryung has nurtured, all because she took care with Ok-ran and risked a little jewellery to be able to feed her. Also find it interesting that unlike Nok-soo, who we see all the time with fake jewelled flowers, we never see Ga-ryung handle the jewellery to give to the guards.
5. I liked how the Hongvengers chastised the complicit ministers in one of the worst Asian punishments, public shame, by way of announcing their crimes via signs.
6. It's fascinating that Yeonsangun's cruelty causes him to create his own worst enemy in Gil-dong and he tells the king as much. The more cruel Yeonsangun is, the more it empowers Gil-dong because the more people come to his side. It's like a cosmic yin-yang of balance. And when it comes down to it, all the main leads are foils of each other. They have similar backgrounds of tragedy, but it's the choices they make that make all the difference. Yeonsangun loses his mother, so does Gil-dong...this primary event in their lives set off a chain of events in their lives which irreversibly influences their lives. Nok-soo and Ga-ryung both have to turn to the gisaeng business, but it turns Nok-soo bitter where it seems like an escape for Ga-ryung.
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32 cloveredlioness
April 26, 2017 at 8:05 PM
More Random Thoughts:
7. Gil-dong is truly the people's hero in that they are the ones who have created him to be their champion. It's their pain, tears and suffering that causes Gil-dong to rise again and have new purpose in his life. It's so interesting that Gil-dong wasn't meant to live more than a Footstool life, but the king turned him into an actual king.
8. I LOVED when everyone raised their bows to Yeonsangun. Given that the bow is a signifier/symbol of the king, it's like Gil-dong has empowered everyone to be a king...ie. their own ruler.
9. It's interesting to see Song Sabu on the back foot since he fashions himself to be the chessmaster, plotting all the moves and the real ruler behind the throne...only he's not the one with the crown, so when he is faced with his lack of power in face of the king, he's taken aback. He's a person who forgets his place, despite harping about the natural Confucian order all the time. He also shows that he's not as good a player as he thinks simply because he picks the wrong mole, Nok-soo. I mean, sure, Nok-soo holds a LOT of influence, but the things the mole has done and is able to do objectively doesn't make a lot of sense coming from a consort. It's clear that the mole knows the inner workings of the government and palace more intimately than a consort/gisaeng would...Particularly since they're sequestered to the female quarters and only brought out to entertain the men. But basically, Gil-hyun is just Joseon Oscar ACTOR.
10. Yeonsangun's manic paranoia is really starting to creep in, particularly when he thinks about Nok-soo being in love with Gil-dong. Yeonsangun is just completely unable to think of slaves or people below him outside a preconceived construct his mind has created for them.
11. What are the chances that the baby that woman held up was really that gisaeng's the first try? lol.
12. The way Sang-hwa treats Ga-ryung's sudden affection is kinda hilarious but given how antagonistic they've been to each other, not surprising. I think Song Sabu's teaching/influence of her is responsible for a lot of the attitude towards Ga-ryung since she usurped the natural order of gisaengs in the palace.
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pogo - sailing HMS Queen of Tears and HMS Sailboat Lovely Runner🍉
April 27, 2017 at 1:11 PM
yeah, Gil-dong being the People's Hero is what really makes this drama stand out - I love that not a single one of the main protagonists is of noble blood/origin in any way, which was made clear right from the very first scene of this drama when Gil-dong shot down the theories that he was the descendant of Goryeo royals or an aristocrat.
And it actually works really nicely with Yoon Kyun-sang's performance - he isn't the most charismatic leader, especially in the wake of Amogae, but the loyalty of the gang is real - and it's the knowledge of their deeds that draws people to their side, not Gil-dong's personality. (which also works well to avoid the cult of personality aspect of things - and Hong Chum-ji is a collective name to begin with). And it's also interesting to note how many times Gil-dong's been helped and defended by the public already, especially a couple of times when he'd have been toast if it wasn't for people covering for him.
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cloveredlioness
April 27, 2017 at 9:47 PM
I really like how you tied Gil-dong's sort of lack of personality to being that he's the people's hero...therefore he's just one of them. He may be stronger and he may be a mighty child and that may set him apart, but at the core, he is like everyone else. And your point that it's not his personality that attracts people, but his actions, is spot on! It's how he's relatable and becomes a hero of the people and why people are willing to put their life on the line for him.
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PakalanaPikake
April 28, 2017 at 6:57 AM
@pogo April 27, 2017 at 1:11 PM
The non-charismatic Gil-dong and his Hong associates as Everyman give all people, including even women and those of humble origins and status, a shot at being a hero. You don't have to be a spellbinding orator. You don't have to have the strength to move mountains. You don't have to be educated. You don't have to be rich, powerful, or well-connected. You just have to have eyes capable of seeing injustice, and willingness to do something about it.
For a while now, I've been thinking that "Liberté, égalité, fraternité" (liberty, equality, brotherhood) could easily be the Hong motto. Freedom of thought, freedom from persecution, freedom from want and exploitation. Equality between men and women as human beings. (Thanks, Amogae!) Brotherhood and sisterhood.
I, too, am glad to avoid the whole cult of personality trope for Gil-dong because it confuses the messenger with the message.
Plus, if anything happens to the figurehead, all the eggs in the basket are lost. By going the collective route, Hong Chum-ji continues as before, and even inspires the independent Descendants Of group. (It makes me think of all those "Son of" horror movies. LOL.)
By having all the Hongs tell their stories, including their fear of going up against the king, they inspire solidarity and trust -- which can only be earned, not commanded.
Yeonsangun is doing his darnedest to establish a cult centered on the king's dignity -- but his actual personality (the bloodthirsty tyrant, not the whimpering child curled up in a fetal position) is nothing a sane person would aspire to.
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cloveredlioness
April 28, 2017 at 12:35 PM
Totally! That's what makes it so hard for Yeonsangun to stomp out the support for Hong Chum Ji. And the very way he can stomp out Hong Chum Ji is just the complete antithesis of everything he is. He absolutely cannot stop where he's going to give dignity to common people. He believes violence and strength will knock everything out...but it's not possible with the Hong Chum Ji movement. The only way to kill the movement is to change his own behaviour and he's incapable. That's such another way that Gil-dong is sticking it to him.
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nico8
April 28, 2017 at 8:38 AM
As Gil Dong said himself, he isn't anyone noteworthy. He'd be completely fine with going back to being Stepstool the procurer.
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pogo - sailing HMS Queen of Tears and HMS Sailboat Lovely Runner🍉
April 28, 2017 at 3:09 PM
@cloveredlioness @pakalanapikake @nico8 -
This drama has done a great job of reinforcing the idea that you don't have to be of 'special' origin to be a hero. And the careful development of Gil-hyun's arc shows that in this story, it isn't superpowers that make the hero, because Gil-hyun has pulled off the mother of all hoodwinks without a whit of berserker strength.
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33 cloveredlioness
April 26, 2017 at 8:32 PM
Even More Random Thoughts:
13. It's interesting to see Yeonsangun so fixated on his image and appearing strong above all else that practical concerns of safety are eschewed for more impractical ways to preserve his image of strength. He definitely reacts emotionally rather than logically which is folly for any leader, much less the leader of a country. Making people wear tags to remind them of their silence only shows how weak he is. If he were strong, he wouldn't care what people say about him. Plus, he's also silencing the ministers, who are supposed to balance his power, which means he's nothing more than a despot dictator. It's this cruelty, causing death to those that talk, and others, that causes his soldiers to join Gil-dong so they can truly protect the people of the nation.
14. Nok-soo using her power to threaten Ok-ran with death to show who has power over her life is no different from all the cruelty Yeonsangun has shown up until this point. She has adapted all of the cruel traits Yeonsangun uses to control his subjects in her quest to retain her position. She's become a monster.
15. In the bath scene from the first episode, the king grabs and twists Nok-soo's hair around his hands like a rope...or rather a noose. I think she's hanging herself by staying in bed with the king (literally and metaphorically lol) and throwing her lot in with him. Her quest for security and power has only thrown her into more precarious positions. I also find it fascinating that the person she wanted to see after earning favour from the king wasn't Gil-dong, but the minister who had abused her. She eschewed love for revenge.
16. I just want Eorini to know who Ga-ryung is to her. That scene where she promises to save Eorini is just so painful because of Eorini's lack of knowledge of her relationship to Ga-ryung and Ga-ryung's lack of knowledge about Gil-dong being alive. Ugh. And then she says she feels like she's with him again because Eorini's there...T_T
17. The look on the king's face when Gil-hyun is slapping himself is HILARIOUS. He's just like FFS man, get a hold of yourself! Yeonsangun is also incapable of seeing what people think of him because he doesn't see the subtext behind their actions when he's being propped up. Gil-hyun's flagellation elevates, legitimizes and signifies Yeonsangun's status as king, so he has no reason to doubt his motives. And I love how Gil-hyun wants to pick soldiers based on loyalty...or lack thereof to Yeonsangun. The above is the same for Gil-hyun's interaction with Song Sabu. Both the king and Song Sabu are blinded by someone who so excellently upholds what they see as the natural social order and is willing to elevate and signify their status through his actions.
18. It's so interesting the way Gil-hyun and Gil-dong sneak Eorini out of the palace. It's like some MAJOR spy games going on. We're going to need this particular spy that we're going to implant into our...
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34 nico8
April 26, 2017 at 8:37 PM
Re: that scene with the ministers and the signs put on them
As a Filipino, this scene really resonated with me, especially with the issue of extra-judicial killings happening in President Duterte's drug war, which used the same method but with opposite intentions (dead bodies with the sign "I'm a drug pusher" placed over them).
Was this on purpose....? Like how in the previous episodes, the ministers complained that the king was listening to people who really shouldn't be meddling in politics -> Former President Park Geun Hye's impeachment.
It may just be me, but I like how Rebel is trying to be politically relevant.
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pogo - sailing HMS Queen of Tears and HMS Sailboat Lovely Runner🍉
April 27, 2017 at 10:57 AM
I rather love that a sageuk has this degree of present-day political relatability - though I don't know if it's the drama itself or just a sign of the times, but this is the first time in all my years on db that I'm actually seeing people talk about politics (real-world kind) in a drama recap thread, however obliquely/in passing.
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kiara
April 27, 2017 at 1:52 PM
Sageuk is no stranger to hidden propagandas. That is why sometimes there would be 2 or more back to back sageuks about the same political theme or timeline.
"Jeong Do-jeon" followed by "SFD" about the establishment of Joseon. The comment section and news articles in Korea created by both shows was pretty interesting.
Here is one from Korea Times on Rebel and some of the current dramas.
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/art/2017/02/688_224230.html
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pogo - sailing HMS Queen of Tears and HMS Sailboat Lovely Runner🍉
April 28, 2017 at 11:10 AM
@kiaraa - I should have been clearer - of course sageuks can and do relate to modern-day events in Korean politics, and beanies have discussed that before.
But with Rebel, I'm seeing the odd comment in the recap relating the drama to non-Korean contemporary politics - and that's a first here, as far as I know.
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kiara
April 28, 2017 at 3:11 PM
My bad pogo. Reading comprehension is not my friend lol.
I'm feeling really burnt out with heavy dramas. I think need a funny rom.com in my life lol.
"Rebel" and "Whisper" in one go is so not a good combo.
pogo - sailing HMS Queen of Tears and HMS Sailboat Lovely Runner🍉
April 28, 2017 at 3:24 PM
@kiara - Rebel is the only drama I'm following currently, but every few weeks I binge-watch episodes of Father Is Strange, for some laughs. It's perfect if light and funny is what you want, albeit in family drama form.
PakalanaPikake
April 28, 2017 at 5:14 PM
@kiara April 28, 2017 at 3:11 PM:
"I'm feeling really burnt out with heavy dramas. I think need a funny rom.com in my life lol."
I know what you mean. I watched VOICE and TOMORROW WITH YOU (with its wack-o timelines), and now am in the home stretch with SAIMDANG. Last week I started MY SECRET ROMANCE for an eye candy fix and to turn my brain off, and it's just what the doctor ordered. No deep, allegorical hidden meanings within 100 miles.
For another diversion, I watched the first two episodes of ANGEL EYES to catch Kang Ha-neul's adorkable character, and ended up marathoning the whole series earlier this week. Normally I don't like melodramas. It was fine up until about the last five episodes, during which the female lead went off the deep end -- but the alternate reality segment was good and almost made up for the angst. Plus there were to cute child actors who stole the show.
Today I checked out the first episode of MAN TO MAN, and it was a romp. It kind of reminded me of YONG-PAL in intensity, but then the comic-book hero spoofery commenced. It looks promising. ;-)
35 cloveredlioness
April 26, 2017 at 8:41 PM
STILL More Random: I got cut off...soo...
18. It's so interesting the way Gil-hyun and Gil-dong sneak Eorini out of the palace. It's like some MAJOR spy games going on. We're going to need this particular spy that we're going to implant into our people, knowing that she's our sister, but also knowing she could at any time betray us. I think if Eorini doesn't remember, they're hoping that their actions will prevent her from going back to Song Sabu. Either way, they can still use her as a double agent and Song Sabu will have to undergo the DOUBLE HONG DOUBLECROSS!
19. Yeonsangun throws out Eorini for the crime of wanting to be outside the palace and being away often, but retaining Ga-ryung despite her admitting to it. He shows that he's willing to overlook Ga-ryung's actions simply because he likes her. But it also shows his whims and follys. It's interesting that even without trying Ga-ryung gets on his good side/curries his favour. And it's simply because she's honest. I wonder what Sang-hwa thought of that ploy lol.
20. I think someone mentioned this on the Soompi boards but Eorini went missing when she went to get water for Gil-dong, so the fact that she was the one who gave Gil-dong water at the gates was a HUGE hint that she was the real Eorini lol. I think Gil-dong is really restraining himself because again, I think he knows about the spy games and he doesn't want to overwhelm Eorini.
21. I love the thinly veiled way in which Gil-hyun reveals himself to Madame Jo and Pedo Prince. It's so good and satisfying because we the audience know exactly what he's getting at, while it takes the two onscreen more time. Gil-hyun just earned the badass mofo title in those scenes lol.
22. I LOVED the way Gil-dong taunted the king with the way he stole his warriors. Yeonsangun really became a rabid dog with that news trying to rip up the letter...but if Gil-dong stabbed the king with a knife, Gil-hyun twists it and pours salt in his wounds when he is revealed to be an even bigger mole. (And he's still not the last one in the palace lol.)
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36 cloveredlioness
April 26, 2017 at 8:48 PM
Final Random:
23. After the more restrained reunion Gil-hyun had with the Hongvengers last episode, it was so great to see him fully reunited with them in a proper way. I love that even though they haven't been interacting the way they used to, they still pulled off another classic Hong caper...one for the aaaages. I look forward to seeing Gil-hyun back in the Hongveger fold. And that reunion is in contrast to his reunion with Eorini...He is the one brimming with emotion when Gil-dong wasn't. I think it's because Gil-dong has had his Hongvenger family for the last 4-7 or more years and he hasn't. He's been alone and when he sees Eorini, even though he knows she doesn't remember, he just can't help himself. I think finally leaving a place where he always had to pretend took off all his walls and filters and he was finally able to be Gil-hyun again. So the first thing he does is be emotional seeing his sister again.
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pogo - sailing HMS Queen of Tears and HMS Sailboat Lovely Runner🍉
April 27, 2017 at 8:11 AM
I love all your random thoughts!
The one about Gil-hyun is especially spot-on - he's spent a very long time under what can only have been immense strain (first from having to hide his real identity and then from becoming a double agent once he knows Gil-dong is alive and the king is awful), and the sight of Eorini really did take him unawares - he lost it the last time he saw her, too, she's a fairly obvious Achilles heel for both her brothers.
Also the point about Gil-hyun being alone all these years is an important one. It's sad that all the Hong siblings have lost so much in their separation - Gil-dong at least got to keep his dad and their Ikhwari fam, but Gil-hyun had to give up his identity to survive, while in Eorini's case she lost her family AND every trace of her past memories and identity.
But I do love that despite that, all three of them grew up to become legitimate forces to reckon with - even amnesiac Eorini, the former pampered and adored baby sister, is now a spy with the potential to bring the whole Hong operation crashing down if her brothers aren't careful.
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cloveredlioness
April 27, 2017 at 9:54 PM
This family sure doesn't have a slouch in it lol. Amogae basically got his wish for all his kids, a scholar, a general...and a spy lol. He just didn't get his wishes exactly.
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latteholic
April 28, 2017 at 6:54 AM
They are truly Amogae's children and the best siblings trio I've seen in sageuk. (Ok Ran, I like you, but this is exactly why I think Sang Hwa would fit much better with her orabeonies and Hongvengers).
Can we now please have Eorini's badass moment, similar to Gil Hyun's arch? Where she takes down the Sugwidan and frees the geoins (with hope that Song Sabu spy will never say a peep about her identity)? I know it's much to ask for the remaining 4 episodes, but it would be so satisfying to watch.
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cloveredlioness
April 28, 2017 at 12:41 PM
I WOULD LOVE if she traps the Suwigdans and tricks them into their own demise! Like a Trojan horse. Song Sabu, Yeonsangun, Pedo Prince and the Jos would lose their shit if Hong Gil-dong's brother AND sister screwed them over. It would be amazing to watch. If you thought the Park Ha-sung reveal was bad lol...
I wonder why Song Sabu's man has never said a word about Sang-hwa being Eorini, Gil-dong's sister. Unless he has and we've not seen it onscreen and Song Sabu will try to use that knowledge to hurt the Hongvengers and hold Eorini hostage if she tries to go back to him and trap them all. Or...the man's a double agent.
I mean, what's interesting about that guy is that he's never said a word, I don't think, but clearly, he knows stuff. But I also think a later reveal may show Song Sabu's miscalculation about him and his motives a la betrayal like Park Ha-sung.
pogo - sailing HMS Queen of Tears and HMS Sailboat Lovely Runner🍉
April 28, 2017 at 2:48 PM
@cloveredlioness - Song Sabu, Yeonsangun, Pedo Prince and the Jos would lose their shit if Hong Gil-dong's brother AND sister screwed them over.
make that Gil-dong's brother, sister AND wife!
I just realised that Gil-hyun's burnt-bridges departure from the palace reminds me a lot in spirit of certain sections of Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix - specifically the chapter named Careers Advice. (the literal thumping on my desk and cheering were the same in both cases).
37 PakalanaPikake
April 27, 2017 at 11:46 AM
Thanks, dramallama, for your recap and commentary. ;-)
This episode has been so monumentally satisfying, I don't know where to begin. Gil-hyun's elegant presentation of the apricot switch middle finger to Madam Jo -- and her reaction to it -- might just be my favorite caper.
But it's up against stiff competition from the inspired "Hong Chum Ji Wants YOU!" recruiting drive among the king's demoralized soldiers.
Jo Jeong-hak's frenzied investigation of Grandpa Park's humble abode -- leading to discovery of the final resting place of the real Park Ha-sung -- ratcheted up the mystery of his scholarly colleague's true identity. When Madam Jo broke the news to her son, I was half-expecting to see heads exploding a la MARS ATTACKS. Young master, bested academically and professionally by a mere slave, was trounced yet again. He couldn't get his head around it any more than the king could fathom how Gil-dong could challenge the son of heaven.
Gil-hyun's "rescue" of Yeonsangun from the Hong bowmen provided an exquisite buildup to the detonation of his loyal persona.
Rescuing Eorini by maneuvering Song Sabu into extracting the geoin spy from the music bureau was like something out of ALIAS or BURN NOTICE.
That deferred group Hong Hyung Hug when Gil-hyun returned at last to the bosom of his family in the cave was a long time coming, and warmed the cockles of my heart. His emotional reaction to meeting Eorini while a subdued Gil-dong looked on struck me as a good lead-in to disclosure of her experiences in the intervening years.
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pogo - sailing HMS Queen of Tears and HMS Sailboat Lovely Runner🍉
April 27, 2017 at 12:41 PM
In most other dramas, Eorini would have died at the same time as their mother, and likely so would Gil-hyun, once they were older or in the course of his long con at the palace.
But most other dramas are not Rebel, which is why Gil-hyun gets to deliver the world's most elegant eff-you to Madam Jo, hoodwink the king one last time, and ride off into the sunset to reclaim his true identity without breaking a sweat - the entire episode is basically Gil-hyun going 'I got this', and, well, he DOES!
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cloveredlioness
April 27, 2017 at 10:05 PM
I really love how unfathomable it is for the upper class that former slaves like Gil-dong, Gil-hyun et al could best them. It really shows their world view and their biases. But the way the Hongs beat them is just so satisfying because they literally take EVERYTHING from under their noses and then rub salt and twist the knife in even harder. Like I'm better than you, academically, professionally and intellectually. And I was YOUR slave. The women you like, loved me; the people that were loyal to you, are loyal to me; your most trusted advisor is my brother; the more cruel you are, the more I WIN.
And then the spy games, the spy games!
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38 pogo - sailing HMS Queen of Tears and HMS Sailboat Lovely Runner🍉
April 27, 2017 at 1:33 PM
One last note - I feel like names hold a lot of significance in this drama, in ways big and small.
Right from our first sight of a baby Gil-dong, when we're told Amogae can't just name him without approval from their master (and Amogae's name itself, with that meaning), to the Hong clan finally acquiring a surname, to Nok-soo changing hers, to Gil-hyun and Eorini being forced by circumstance to change theirs.
And I love that Gil-dong flat-out calls the king by his given name - an act that's flat-out treasonous by the standards of the time.
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cloveredlioness
April 27, 2017 at 3:27 PM
Sooooo true. They are usually incredibly laced with meaning. Like Amogae meaning anyone and the insult and demeaning quality of it. Nok-soo's name is also fascinating because it's about her embracing deep pain and sadness even though it's a reference to a happy time she spent with Gil-dong. I can't totally remember the hanja for Park Ha-sung but the sung part is 成 which had the meaning to make, become/turn into, complete or win...so it is apropos. I'm definitely going to look up that other hanja lol to find total meaning... Even the newts names of places like the gibang have been important. Also need to deconstruct geoin next recap.
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cloveredlioness
April 27, 2017 at 10:34 PM
So I went back to episode 11 to look up what Park Ha-sung's name is in hanja. I was like WTF? That is not a character I've seen before...is confused. Attempted to look it up on google/other dictionaries using IME pad to write the Chinese characters (in Japanese lol). Did not find them. Went to consult mom...she goes, that does not exist...So yes, the Chinese characters used for Ha-sung does not actually exist. The sung character I mentioned before actually has the day radical with it. LOL. Talk about a major clue...Park Ha-sung does not exist. You can see the hanja for Jo Jeong-hak and Park Ha-sung from about 26 minutes into episode 11 when they look up their exam results.
Names are what causes a lot of the mistaken identity and missing connections in this drama. Park Ha-sung helps out Gil-dong, but because he's Park Ha-sung, we miss a chance for an early reunion. Gong-hwa becomes Nok-soo so there's no Gong-hwa at the palace and no reunion between Nok-soo and Gil-dong. Jo Soo-hak becomes Jo Jeong-hak and is able to be friends with Gil-hyun for a short while. Eorini becomes Sang-hwa and misses her brothers at the palace. Gil-dong becomes Footstool and pulls the wool over Pedo Prince's eyes.
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liina
April 28, 2017 at 2:43 AM
I have looked up possible Hanja combinations for Mo-ri and Scholar Song's given name some days ago. Just for fun. One actually shouldn't do such a thing, when one doesn't know the Hanja, because as I said before, there are often xxx possibilities, so there is no use in it. So don't take the following too serious. The writer probably meant some totally different characters.
The characters that made most sense to me for Scholar Song were: religiously cultivated money exchange
lol
For Mo-ri there are two. Actually mori, if you take it as one word, in Korea is a still used sinokorean word that derived from two chinese characters. It means "profiteer", "making profit". I don't know if that word is supposed to have any realtion to mori. Though in the moment mo-ri is in a way similar to a mercenary. Only I think money isn't exactly his motivation. By the way, the assassins name in the novel means something similar to "natural born killer". The meaning that made the most sense to me when trying out a big number of Hanja for mo and ri, was "semifinished (raw, young, unthinking) somebody". That reminded me of Mo-ri's Mighty Child state.
I think, the changing of names of Eorini and Gil-hyun is their figuratively death. Eorini died when she became Sang-hwa. Gil-hyun died when he became Park Ha-sung. Gil-dong "died" in front of the city gate. So the Mighty Child story that Amogae told Gil-dong - that the mighty child's parents, siblings and the mighty child will all die - became quite profetic. It's good that the siblings were all able to ressurect! Now Ga-ryung is the only one left that has to die and resurrect.
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PakalanaPikake
April 28, 2017 at 5:05 AM
@liina April 28, 2017 at 2:43 AM:
Thanks for looking those up, even if there's no way to know exactly why Writer-nim used those names.
I really like your idea that loss of birth name is a symbolic death and resurrection under a new identity.
Merely changing a name doesn't necessarily change the essence of the person who bears it, especially if the name never reflected the inner reality of the person to begin with. This is why Amogae wanted his sons to have better names than his own. It gave them something to be proud of, and ideally, something to aspire to and grow into.
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cloveredlioness
April 28, 2017 at 1:10 PM
And then there's Gong-hwa who chose to completely embrace the inner reality of her heart/mind by choosing Nok-soo. It's interesting how choosing that name has taken her to such dark places. She made her mind a reality.
latteholic
April 28, 2017 at 7:06 AM
I like the idea that changing their names represent their "death and resurrection". Garyung never had any other names so I hope that means she will go through the same arch as Gil Dong, where she survive that arrow wound... Actually comes to think of it, her stakes scene kind of mirror GilDong's stake/pole scene in front of the palace.
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cloveredlioness
April 28, 2017 at 1:12 PM
Oooh. Thanks for bringing that up! That brings the tally of evidence that Ga-ryung will survive up. We've got the novel narration from the future and the Gil-dong stake parallel... (I'll get to the third next recap. ;))
cloveredlioness
April 28, 2017 at 1:08 PM
I don't think this has anything to do with it...but Mori is a common Japanese surname that means forest, 森. It can also mean protect 守り, leakage 漏り or lance 銛. And searching for meaning in Chinese is going to be waaaaay too hard because we'd probably find anything and everything.
I find it interesting that all the Hong siblings have undergone a death and resurrection. Hopefully Ga-ryung is able to do it too! But we still suspect her to be one of Mori's sisters, maybe...so as a sibling of a mighty child, it's possible. (Maybe Ok-ran and Ga-ryung are Mori's sisters?)
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liina
April 28, 2017 at 2:54 AM
I think the name changing of Gil-hyun and Eorini symbols their figuratively death. Like Gil-dong "died" at the pole in front of the city gate. Thus making the Mighty Child story Amogae told little Gil-dong, that the mighty child's parents, siblings, loved ones and the mighty child itself will all die, quite profetic. Luckily they were all able to resurrect. Now it's Ga-ryung's turn to die and resurrect.
I looked up possible Hanja combinations for Scholar Song's given name and for Mo-ri some days ago. It's waht one shouldn't do, because it's just guessing. But since I did it only for myself... I'll share the one that made the most sense to me for Scholar Song though, because t would be quite adequate:
morally/religiously cultivated money exchange
Lol
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liina
April 28, 2017 at 2:59 AM
ARGH, sorry for posting two comments with the same content!
Does anybody else have these commenting problems? - I sometimes sent my comments but they don't appear at all. Or like now - I send them and even with a couple of reloads they don't appear, but 15 minutes later they are suddenly there.
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pogo - sailing HMS Queen of Tears and HMS Sailboat Lovely Runner🍉
April 28, 2017 at 10:56 AM
I've been having problems posting comments too, but I thought that was just because the new site design is hell on my browser and can't handle two db tabs being open at the same time.
Great observation about the name changes being a figurative death though, especially for characters who had to live under assumed identities/sever all ties with their past (Gil-dong's siblings, Nok-soo).
PakalanaPikake
April 28, 2017 at 4:55 AM
@liina April 28, 2017 at 2:54 AM
"morally/religiously cultivated money exchange"
This is exactly the kind of double meaning I meant. Who's to know what Writer-nim intended? But the shoe certainly fits in this case. Thanks!
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PakalanaPikake
April 28, 2017 at 5:23 AM
@cloveredlioness April 27, 2017 at 10:34 PM
Hmm. Park Ha-sung sounds like Nowhere Man. LOL! *tips hat to the Beatles*
Thanks for investigating the names. This is exactly the kind of thing that has been bugging me. So much gets lost in translation.
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pogo - sailing HMS Queen of Tears and HMS Sailboat Lovely Runner🍉
April 28, 2017 at 11:02 AM
@cloveredlioness - wait, so the hanja for Park Ha-sung's name is one that doesn't exist?!
I really want to bow down to the genius of this drama, now. (I would also like to see what was in Dead Grandpa Park's last letter that Gil-hyun read, even if we can guess at its contents meaning that he gave the ok to any passerby assuming his grandson's name and identity).
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cloveredlioness
April 28, 2017 at 1:20 PM
Yes. This will be interesting to describe since these words don't exist. Obviously Park does since it's a surname. Ha is 門 with 可 inside. It's the 可 part inside 門 that gives the sound 'ha'. While sung is 成 with the radical 日on the left. In this case, it's the 成 part that gives the sung sound. Now, this is not to say that people don't make their own Chinese characters for names all the time, they do...but the point is, that for people who study and know Chinese characters...they would not know Ha-sung's hanja.
We know that Grandpa Park gave his permission for anyone to assume his grandson's identity...probably to continue his life's goals/mission...but WHAT was the mission? Did Gil-hyun fulfill it through his epic caper?
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liina
April 28, 2017 at 6:44 PM
Hm, do you mean 閜 하/ha and 晠 성/seong?
閜 in Korea would be used for "bright", "brilliant".
晠 would be used for "greatly openminded", and also for "very torn", "badly ripped apart". Sometimes just for "big", "high extend".
cloveredlioness
April 28, 2017 at 9:37 PM
@liina Yes! Those are the ones. I looked it up in a Chinese/Japanese dictionary and couldn't find it. But of course, I didn't think to look in a Korean one!
liina
April 29, 2017 at 1:51 AM
@cloveredlioness:
We made good teamwork then! I couldn't have find those words without your description! :)
Ha, "great unity leads to great results" ;)
PakalanaPikake
April 28, 2017 at 4:42 PM
@pogo April 28, 2017 at 11:02 AM:
"I would also like to see what was in Dead Grandpa Park's last letter that Gil-hyun read"
I'm still wondering about that myself. Who knows -- maybe we'll hear an explanation from Song Sabu. Or it's possible that one of the Hong brethren will ask Gil-hyun how he ended up working at court.
@cloveredlioness April 28, 2017 at 1:20 PM:
Thanks for explaining how the radicals are combined to form characters, convey phonemes, and express ideas.
I had assumed that Grandpa Park wanted his family line to continue, maybe so ancestral rites would be performed. I hadn't considered the possibility that he might have a political reason for wanting the persona to continue to exist. I wonder if it could be something to do with inheritance or seniority within the clan.
It just occurred to me that the real Park Ha-sung mirrored Gil-dong, but with a tragic outcome. The Mighty Child survived his encounter with a tiger as he traversed the mountain. Young Park Ha-sung was killed by a wild animal. Gil-hyun therefore actually got two symbolic deaths for the price of one: rebirth via adopting a new identity that had belonged to a dead person.
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cloveredlioness
April 28, 2017 at 9:39 PM
Whoa....That's crazy. I didn't really catch onto that, but that's nuts that both brothers 'died' by wild beasts lol.
39 cutie
April 27, 2017 at 10:59 PM
Why do i think the two brothers may die or one out of them?
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40 PakalanaPikake
April 28, 2017 at 4:51 AM
As if Yeonsangun doesn't already have enough grounds for his inferiority complex, he confirms that Nok-soo knew his nemesis in the biblical sense before she came to the palace. It's as if his concubine is wearing a big "Kilroy was here" sign.
(An invisible parallel to the signs on the ministers.)
And since his rival had no wealth, power, nor fame back then, it must have been Something Else that attracted her. Hehehe.
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pogo - sailing HMS Queen of Tears and HMS Sailboat Lovely Runner🍉
April 28, 2017 at 10:51 AM
yeah, and that's without him even figuring out yet that his new crush is none other than Gil-dong's wife, who's only in the palace in the first place because she's trying to end him for killing her husband.
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cloveredlioness
April 28, 2017 at 1:23 PM
If you thought Yeonsangun had an inferiority complex before...I mean think about it...Gil-dong's wife is LOYAL/CONFUCIAN LOYAL enough to want to go kill the man who killed her husband, who happens to be the king. It kinda made my head spin that Gil-dong and Yeonsangun liked the same women, but they both only have Gil-dong in their hearts.
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41 pogo - sailing HMS Queen of Tears and HMS Sailboat Lovely Runner🍉
April 28, 2017 at 11:07 AM
Comment was deleted
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42 jlfc.21
December 25, 2017 at 4:31 AM
I must keep my sanity for this Sang hwa girl haha she keeps making my blood boil a little but I like it. Adding more emotions to the story especially that I really want the three siblings to be reunited. But Ga-ryung! Huhu what will happen to you? Nok-soo as well I am scared of what’s going to happen. Excited and scared at the same time! Woooh! This sageuk is really something.
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43 jlfc.21
December 25, 2017 at 5:07 AM
Come to think of it, Uh Ri Ni always bring her the purple tie she always had with Gil-dong. Please, let that be the way. Any other way just to tame that Uh Ri Ni haha before I go crazy with her attitude. I will understand if she forgots her tragic life before she got kidnapped but please let there be a wag for her to remember and be good again haha
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44 Sara
September 16, 2020 at 12:36 AM
Gil Hyun is my love he is for sure one of my fav characters on TV <3 and my fav in this drama LOOOOVE him <3
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