OCN’s Neighborhood Hero gets called to action
by girlfriday
Trailers are out for OCN’s new spy action drama Neighborhood Hero, about an ex-secret agent who starts a quirky little ring of vigilante heroes to keep watch over their neighborhood. There must just be a lot of evil where they live. The series stars Park Shi-hoo (Alice in Cheongdam-dong) and Lee Soo-hyuk (Scholar Who Walks the Night), and judging from the teasers, it looks like a familiar blend of flashy style, action, and humor from the director of Runaway: Plan B and Chuno.
Park Shi-hoo stars as a dormant black-ops agent who’s living a quiet life as a bar owner, and Lee Soo-hyuk is a young man who dreams of becoming a police officer but keeps failing the exam. A rise in crime brings Park Shi-hoo’s character out of retirement to save the day, and he takes Lee Soo-hyuk under his wing and teaches him everything he knows.
Jo Sung-ha (Hwajeong) costars as a detective who works with them, and Girls’ Generation’s Yuri (Fashion King) is a bar employee and aspiring writer who does more neighbor-spying than writing on most days. The drama is about the makeshift vigilante crew that dons team hats and saves their local citizens, and how they become an integral part of their community in the process.
The 16-episode series will air on Saturdays and Sundays on OCN, and so far the show seems a shade lighter than the gritty thrillers that usually populate the cable network’s lineup. They’ve done lighter shows before (like Hero starring Yang Dong-geun), but they’re rarer than the dark crime procedurals. I’m still not sure I’m ready for Park Shi-hoo’s comeback to television, but I do like the overall tone in Neighborhood Hero’s teasers, especially in the big moment when the hero dons his signature hat… and has to pause to resize it because it doesn’t fit on his head. It bodes well for the show’s ability to find the comedy in this bizarre setup and not take itself too seriously, which is my hope.
Neighborhood Hero premieres January 23.
Via DongA
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Tags: Lee Soo-hyuk, Neighborhood Hero, Park Shi-hoo, Yuri
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1 Bellamafia
December 21, 2015 at 2:12 PM
I thought it was a batman symbol on the hat..lol.. very similar though.
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2 Lizzie
December 21, 2015 at 2:22 PM
aw gwi you look like you're going to be adorable in this. :)
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3 Kween Ramyeon
December 21, 2015 at 2:28 PM
Hey, it's Gwi without the blood and rock star hair....
I still haven't got around to finishing the last two episodes of Scholar, but he was definitely one of the good things in it.
I'd give this a go - it looks fun...
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redfox
December 21, 2015 at 2:31 PM
nope it is a vampire carpenter puppy.
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I don't give Six Flying Dragons
December 21, 2015 at 6:58 PM
Angry carpenter FOR THE WIN!
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Alessar
December 22, 2015 at 5:56 AM
Vampire carpenter puppy ad-executive!
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4 themugen123
December 21, 2015 at 2:37 PM
looks good.
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5 Daebakmusic
December 21, 2015 at 2:41 PM
Lee soo hyuk look so adorable with his light brown hair!!! And my oppa!!!! Gosh! I missed him since that scandal he had. Can't wait!! Looks like it's action pack and has a hint of humor! So much to look forward to in January!!!
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6 Aigoooo
December 21, 2015 at 2:50 PM
Reasons why I'd probably check out this drama:
1. To see if Yuri's acting has improved.
2. To see Lee Soo Hyuk playing an ordinary person.
3. I am willing to give Park Shi Hoo a chance. Hating and disregarding someone because of an allegation is not my style.
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liz
December 21, 2015 at 6:57 PM
You can support him all you want, your choice. But don't twist the facts.
"allegations" you say.
Police actually indicted him for rape, meaning they had enough proof to indict him, and they went to court.
If Police had no proof and they were just "allegations" the case would be dropped right away. But they indicted PSH for rape.
PSH always said he would prove his innocence, but he never did, instead he decided to drop the case when they went to court, showing he was guilty because if he was innocent, he would never drop the case and his lawsuit against the girl who he said was lying.
It is just when they went to court, PSH and his family bough off the girl to make her shut up.
Plus, there is a video that shows PSH and his friend carrying the fainted drunk girl into his house... there is no way to deny it.
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Kween Ramyeon
December 21, 2015 at 8:15 PM
Not being a fan of PBS, nor being familiar with any of his previous work - as they say, I ain't have no dog in this fight.
But I do have a legal background, so I'm just asking for clarity - what do you mean by indictment?
A simplistic definition says "An indictment (/ɪnˈdaɪtmənt/ in-dyt-mənt), in the common law system, is a formal accusation that a person has committed a crime."
However, all that means, is that the prosecution can say - these conditions a, b or c, is enough for us to proceed with a formal accusation.
It does not actually mean the accusation is proven justified. So no, an indictment is not proof.
It is also weird that you put the onus on the defendant to "prove innocence" - in most courts of law, you're innocent until you're proven guilty. This is because the burden of proof has to be on the accuser, as it is extremely hard to prove "non-guilt".
I don't know about the detail about buying people off - but are you saying, that you 're able to say that for a fact? Like you have seen documents of the gag-order, in lieu of money? Or are you repeating hearsay?
Finally, a video of two people carrying a drunk girl into the house, is not tantamount to proven conditions of rape. It just factually isn't - and no court of law would say so.
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Miranda
December 21, 2015 at 8:55 PM
I usually think the English language sites escape some of the utterly bonkers elements of Korean fan culture, but when it comes to scandals some of the frenzy bleeds through.
It feels like when a scandal gets a certain amount of momentum behind it, netziens can actually change the facts of the issue to something else. I don't think it's deliberate, really - just something about an echo chamber where if something is repeated often enough and with enough passion, it becomes fact. And at a certain point the participants in the conversation fail to be able to get the perspective to see the flaws in their passionately-held positions.
This isn't culturally specific, by the way - Americans do a fantastic job in the political fringes with similar groupthink nonsense (did you know our president is secretly Muslin, for instance?). But I do think it's particularly strong and influential in Korean web media circles.
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Kween Ramyeon
December 21, 2015 at 9:01 PM
I think you've got a good point there, about the echo chamber effect of the internet.
Already it can be shown in certain industrial cases, how citations can be falsified or references to "research" aren't valid at all, (basically an offhand comment recorded in one interview, can be made into a factual reference in a later paper and so on and so on) - how much for the internet as a space where there's still a lot of anonymity and little censorship, for rumours to proliferate and gain enough traction to feel like truth?
I don't advocate censorship at all - but being on a thread on a site like this, has a strange effect of thinking you were seated in a virtual cafe indulging on a viewing hobby, to suddenly be surrounded by a mob cacophony. Like whoa, where did all these nutter butters come from?
Miranda
December 21, 2015 at 9:15 PM
I find it kind of entertaining that on this thread, of all places, we've formed a vigilante band of defenders of due process and the legal system.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion! Everyone is NOT entitled to their own facts!
(Bit wordy as a rallying cry. I'll work on it.)
Kween Ramyeon
December 21, 2015 at 9:19 PM
ahahaha.... your intentions are nobler than mine...
I'm still chuckling hard at one of the eggs thrown wildly below...
"Delusional old ladies who drool over rapists!"
Oh man, a bit wordy for a picket sign too, yes?
Kween Ramyeon
December 21, 2015 at 9:43 PM
Actually, what would be really interesting, if one is truly bored with time on one's hards - is to see how the comments fare on the recaps for the first few episodes for Remember.
Would the cries be similar, echoing the sentiments of the mob neighbours? Or would they sing a different tune?
liz
December 22, 2015 at 12:37 AM
Maybe because of my limited english I couldn't express myself right, sorry about this.
I followed eveything about PSH case, and it was a mess.
1) PSH said he was sober, and said the girl was a bit drunk, but okay to give consentment, so they slept together. (Later a video showing the girl was not in conditions to give consentment at all, since she wasn't awake and couldn't walk straight, and had to be carried by PSH and his friend. By her state it was clear the girl was not sober enough to give consent like PSH claimed. He was sober, she was very drunk to give consent = rape in my opinion.
2) The prosecution charged PSH for rape, and in Korea even if they are in court, the parts can drop the case if they make an agreement, this happened when PSH saw the evidences were against him and he would not win the case he decided to shut off the girl, he even dropped his lawsuit against her, something he would never do if he was innocent.
3)PSH also avoided to go to police every time they asked him to, they almost had to bring him by force using the law. He and his friend both failed 2 times the The lie Detector , while Miss Choi (the victim) didn't, she passed on first try (though the police couldn't really use it on court)
4) PSH and his family started to media play about the girl life, her info, her family everything they exposed, trying to make it look like she was after his money and he was a victim. They were pretty shady.
5) PSH also said he would never drop the case and the lawsuit and would prove his innocence, but he didn't, he dropped eveything, dropped the lawsuit against the girl that ruined his image and went to hide.
Imo, all this shows to me he was not innocent but guilty.
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Kween Ramyeon
December 22, 2015 at 9:54 AM
Thank you for taking the time to explain better what you meant. Your English is fine, but your reasoning is not.
> 1) PSH said he was sober, and said the girl was a bit drunk, but okay to give consentment, so they slept together. (Later a video showing the girl was not in conditions to give consentment at all, since she wasn’t awake and couldn’t walk straight, and had to be carried by PSH and his friend. By her state it was clear the girl was not sober enough to give consent like PSH claimed. He was sober, she was very drunk to give consent = rape in my opinion.
The thing is, it was also reported that she threw up and then sobered up enough later. The point is - your eyes extend no further than the front door. What happened after that, you have no factual idea. I've known people who have passed out from being drunk, but do wake up in a bit and regain consciousness. I'm not saying that is what happened, because I don't know, but I am saying nothing in your statement shows you do, either.
>2) The prosecution charged PSH for rape, and in Korea even if they are in court, the parts can drop the case if they make an agreement, this happened when PSH saw the evidences were against him and he would not win the case he decided to shut off the girl, he even dropped his lawsuit against her, something he would never do if he was innocent.
Yes this is called "settlement" and it exists outside of Korea too. But choosing to settle, is not the same as admitting guilt. For example, the girl may realise she had ambivalent feelings but did not say anything enough to show it was guilt - but then decided to settle as it is too complicated to prove. Or the accused - the guy, in the case, might have been advised by lawyers that rape case draw media frenzy, so even if he's innocent, if the trial will be long and ambiguous - settling is the faster, wiser thing to do.
>3)PSH also avoided to go to police every time they asked him to, they almost had to bring him by force using the law. He and his friend both failed 2 times the The lie Detector , while Miss Choi (the victim) didn’t, she passed on first try (though the police couldn’t really use it on court)
I don't know why he avoided going to the police, but perhaps a lot of people are scared of the police. The police isn't always known for treating accused well, either, so he might be afraid of some kind of entrapment. As for lie detectors - a lot also depends on what you believe is true. For example, if you believe you saw a dog, when really it was a fox - you will pass a lie detector test saying you saw a dog. But if you saw a dog, but think - wait, I could have been confused and maybe i didn't see a dog - your test results will fluctuate more. In the case of drunkenness and rape (whereby it's easy to misread what the other party is doing or meaning) - there is more room for misunderstanding. Lie detector tests are not foolproof either.
>4) PSH and his family started to media play...
Kween Ramyeon
December 22, 2015 at 9:54 AM
>4) PSH and his family started to media play about the girl life, her info, her family everything they exposed, trying to make it look like she was after his money and he was a victim. They were pretty shady.
I am not sure what you mean by this. What if that was what they truly believed was happening? If he was innocent, they would think that, would they not? Sounds like it was a free for all media frenzy anyway, with both sides coming off pretty badly.
>5) PSH also said he would never drop the case and the lawsuit and would prove his innocence, but he didn’t, he dropped eveything, dropped the lawsuit against the girl that ruined his image and went to hide.
Actually, I can imagine a scenario where legal advice is given to him to drop the case. Not because he's guilty, but because in cases of rape - it is extremely hard to prove innocence. Because what happens between two people intimately, and is interpreted by two people - it is very difficult to show the subtle nuances. So legal counsel would say to such a client - it is no point dragging this out much longer as everyone will be hurt more. It's better to move on.
>Imo, all this shows to me he was not innocent but guilty.
I can see why you would draw those sort of ideas from assembling those interpretations - but they are insufficient to actually prove guilt. You can only say you "think" so, because this is how you interpret what you have read. But you don't really know, and what you have written - doesn't prove it at all.
ko
December 22, 2015 at 11:31 AM
Sorry DramaPanda, but even with all the legal talk, I think you are just rying to defend him - PSH media play was shady and even the public could see it. Everything he said, the police came and showed it wasn't like this. He tried to manipulate the public but they didn't feel for it, just his fans.
Kween Ramyeon
December 22, 2015 at 11:41 AM
Sorry, Ko - what you type looks like English, but doesn't actually make any sense.
getsomelearningon
December 22, 2015 at 2:12 PM
Loved dramapanda's response^^. +1
sogazelle
December 22, 2015 at 4:16 PM
@ Dramapanda and @Miranda
Thank you so much for your comments.
I'm not even a fan of PSH but I feel sorry for the guy..
For the fact that people are crucifying the guy without facts but just from hearsay.
I think someone said it already.
If I was raped, I'll never take money from the rapist and settle out of court...
That would be like degrading myself twice.
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deebs
December 22, 2015 at 10:07 PM
"If I was raped". Come on, that's not an easy statement to make now is it. Like plenty has said, we don't know the actual situation, so all we can do is assume and have opinions, but we don't know the facts. It could be rape, she could have been going for his money, or it could be a whole different story for all we know. So for now and maybe forever we don't know who's guilty and who's not.
BUT if it indeed was rape, I don't think we can judge her by saying that you'll never do this or that if you were the victim. I'm not entirely sure about how the law works but it seems like rape is a difficult case, especially with the whole were-you-sober-or-not fiasco. Going forward with the case can end up with serious consequences on both sides. I think people may not even report rape in the first place because of that fear itself. You talk about degrading herself twice, but there could be something worse than degrading herself, she could have her whole life ruined. It takes money to go on with the case, she may have to keep getting questioned over and over again about what really happened, she will be blamed for not taking better care of herself etc. I mean he already started digging dirt on her, it may end up being more than just about her and it may even harm those around her. If her identity gets revealed it will become troublesome and people may never look at her the same again. It's a tiring and emotionally exhausting procedure even if she ends up winning the case. Yes, it's not ideal to settle it outside court, but sometimes people have other considerations in mind and many people try and convince themselves if they just swallow it this one time; they may then go on to live a normal life. Some people make decisions because they feel it may bring more good than harm. We are not in her position, so we don't know. There are so many other possible factors that could push her to settling.
I respect people saying that it's unfair to judge PSH for smth uncertain, so I think it's also very unfair if we end up judging her by saying what a rape victim would never do. Rape is a disgusting thing, and I hope no woman ever have to go through such thing, but IF they did - least we could do is not judge the way they handle the situation.
Kween Ramyeon
December 23, 2015 at 3:31 PM
Very good reply, Deebs.
Miranda
December 21, 2015 at 8:49 PM
1) Indictment means that a prosecutor has enough to go to court. Not enough to convict, or even "proof" since sometimes it's circumstantial; just enough to think that it's worth bringing to court.
2) If the police work like you've just outlined, there would be no need for courts at all, since the police would just decide cases. The structure is that police dig up evidence, the prosecutor weighs whether it's solid enough to merit a court case, and then the court is the one that actually decides whether the evidence is "proof" or not.
3) I genuinely have no idea how he would prove his innocence in a he said/she said situation involving an event that was either consensual or nonconsensual. This is why rape cases can get really tricky, especially if both parties agree that intercourse happened but differ on the circumstances - it means most "evidence" supports both theories. As for dropping the case - there are a lot of very good reasons for dropping cases. They're not necessarily the most just or ethical or righteous reasons, but they're there.
4) citation needed
5) From what I understand, this is a video of the friend piggybacking the girl into the house. That's it. That is not proof of rape. It's stringing together two vaguely sequential things and claiming a pattern. There's no blood alcohol record, and there's no record from inside the house. It's not proof.
Look, I do get why people are upset by this and why they might not want to watch anything with PSH in it. That's valid. But exaggeration NEVER helps when discussing rape. Stick to the facts.
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LillyLee
December 23, 2015 at 12:09 AM
You do not get to decide to drop your own criminal indictment.
It was dropped by the state because it was a cooked up scam.
Look at what you wrote.
It never went to trial because it was a scam.
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ji sung
December 23, 2015 at 7:23 AM
get a life its over....forgive and forget...let he who is without sin cast the first stone..........................
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Cafe
December 21, 2015 at 7:07 PM
I guess your style is to cheer over a RAPIST.
And, no, it wasn't an "allegation" it was a full case.
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Miranda
December 21, 2015 at 8:23 PM
Look, I get it - but unless he was convicted in a court of law or admitted responsibility in a statement, it's an allegation.
I have absolutely no stake in this, but there are a lot of reasons cases are dropped. We also have a very strange, stilted understanding of the facts in this case, released through the media. If the prosecution ended, even considering the different ways laws are applied in different countries, then he's not been found culpable for rape.
Sometimes being overly emphatic can be damaging. He was accused of rape. He was not tried, not convicted and didn't admit to it. Those distinctions are important.
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Aigoooo
December 21, 2015 at 8:31 PM
Quite your mob mentality and stop twisting my statement. I never said I would cheer for him. I get it, you hate him to the core because, in your eyes, he is a rapist and nothing will change that. Me calling his case an allegation is the best description I can make because something is an allegation if it was not proven to be fact and there was no conviction involved. It's that simple, so don't paint me as some rapist lover. I expected more intelligence from people who visit this site.
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mira
December 22, 2015 at 9:12 AM
I personally have hard time looking at him after the incident however mob mentality is a very scary thing to watch.
It's reminding me of Tablo's case where despite the allegations being insane and providing enough proof, the mob won't back down.
When I read about Tablo's case I wondered even after all the proofs how was it possible that people were still attacking the family on the street ?
In this thread though, I can see an example of how the person who simply provided technical facts got attacked lol...
I read somewhere that if you keep repeating a lie enough times it will become the truth.
That's why "Innocent until proven guilty" is the right philosophy to stick to.
Want to hate him and not support him ? That's what you should be doing.
Pushing your theories on everyone and attacking people for not agreeing with you with the correct technical terms? That's not a good thing to do.
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kalel92
December 23, 2015 at 6:43 AM
I don't want to get involved in PSH's case; I have a very rough idea about it and a personal point of view as well. Tablo's case, however, is one of the most frightening things I've ever read about in my whole life. "Scandals" in a country like SK are beyond imagination; truth and lies usually get mixed together and the result is ALWAYS a monstrous case on social media.
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Kween Ramyeon
December 23, 2015 at 3:32 PM
I only just heard about the "Tablo" case. It's quite a story!
Miranda
December 23, 2015 at 9:34 PM
The Tablo case is completely heartbreaking, and an enraging case of the mob managing to totally silence any opposition:
https://alumni.stanford.edu/get/page/magazine/article/?article_id=40913
Just thinking that Tablo's life was derailed and his sense of safety (and to a certain extent reality) was changed forever is heartbreaking. All because people were so wildly jealous that they tried to MAKE his accomplishments go away through threats and screaming, but pretended it was a quest for truth.
I'm not sure PSH fits in the same miscarriage-of-justice category, but it's certainly an excellent reminder that evidence is not necessarily proof, and being loud does not mean you are right.
Kween Ramyeon
December 23, 2015 at 10:55 PM
Thanks for the link, Miranda. That's quite a horrific story. It astounds me how poisonously persistent the witch hunt was - it would not stop even when the Stanford registrar vouched for his qualifications, or when proof of his certificate was provided, or even when his ex-classmates came forward to defend him. They had a foregone verdict and no amount of truth or reason could stop the madness.
I'm not sure what's the simmering pot under a society that allows this to happen. It makes me think of The Crucible, but I guess, with the simultaneous reach and anonymity of the internet, the witch hunt spreads in a way that is hard to counter.
It's also painfully ironic - a lot of people who are innocent and who find accusations too bizarre, normally wouldn't deign to reply to them. They would just consider them absurd, but in this scenario - it's as if not replying means an admission of guilt.
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getsomelearningon
December 22, 2015 at 2:10 PM
What does this even mean? A full case doesn't mean the government proved he was guilty.
I do this for a living. Don't make legal conclusions when you have no idea what you're talking about.
But do feel free to THINK he did it and not watch his show. I just felt the need to say something because some of these comments with their conclusions are ridiculous.
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LillyLee
December 23, 2015 at 12:11 AM
It was not a full case. There was no trial.
All charges dropped.
The end.
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deebs
December 21, 2015 at 8:43 PM
Personally I think I would check out this drama for no. 1 and 2 but I'll have to see if I can continue watching it because that guy is the freaking male lead after all.
Sigh, it just seemed to obvious that he was indeed guilty and he decided to sweep it under a rug and the thing I hate most in this world even above murder is a rapist. It's such a pity they had to cast him in this drama since the show seems like it has good potential of being a fun one. And from the teasers LSH and Yuri's characters seem adorable and interesting. I just don't know if I can swallow watching PSH walking around as a supposed neighborhood hero when there's this huge probability (yes, for all we know he may be innocent after all) that he is a rapist. Maybe if the other characters will be interesting enough for the first time I can try watching a drama while skipping scenes of the first male lead.
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Trinity 🍆
December 22, 2015 at 9:39 AM
It's definitely up to people if they wish to support PSH or not. It doesn't make anyone any less or better for boycotting or watching this show. I personally think he raped the girl but unless there is true proof of this, it's only my judgement and opinion. The only people who really know what happened were the people in that room. I wont see this show but I have no problem with other people watching this show.
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7 Purple
December 21, 2015 at 2:58 PM
Park Is Hoo + Lee Soo Hyuk= must watch for me.
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8 shin rae mi
December 21, 2015 at 3:01 PM
I'll be watching this...
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9 Mr.Revenge
December 21, 2015 at 3:16 PM
ohhhh that piece of trash, he's so disgusting. Fucking rapist
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lemondoodle
December 21, 2015 at 3:24 PM
+1
I appreciate your bluntness
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hello
December 21, 2015 at 4:15 PM
mte, I'm so confused by all of the comments praising him.
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Destiny
December 21, 2015 at 7:00 PM
I definitely will not watch this drama because of him!
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Cafe
December 21, 2015 at 7:02 PM
MTE, it seems that a pretty face can erase the rape case, and all the DELUSIONAL OLD WOMEN who are loving him, I don't know... do they have someting in their heads??? Because, you are drooling over a RAPIST.
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Cafe
December 21, 2015 at 7:05 PM
They should change the name to "Neighborhood RAPIST- kinda hero11!!!"
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skelly
December 22, 2015 at 7:33 AM
I have to admit, there are a lot of dramas out there, and "Neighborhood Rapist" will be a good shorthand reminder of why I don't want to watch this particular one.
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zia
December 22, 2015 at 10:33 AM
If you don't want to watch this drama, then don't. You can't do anything if we want to watch it. Delusional old women? How is that being delusional? Okay, you hate him. But you don't have to be rude. Calling PSH a rapist doesn't make you a good person.
P.S.
If I were a victim of rape, I will never agree on a settlement.
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fab
December 23, 2015 at 2:49 PM
Your "P.S." is disgusting. You can love or hate him all you want but refrain from victim-blaming a woman you don't know.
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Kween Ramyeon
December 23, 2015 at 3:34 PM
Looks like all sorts of tempers are up, as there's quite a bit of trolling. I can't take anyone who shouts "Neighbourhood Rapist" seriously - the Sesame Street song keeps coming into my head.
But to be fair, Zia merely said that's what she would not do herself.
Miranda
December 23, 2015 at 9:36 PM
"P.S.
If I were a victim of rape, I will never agree on a settlement."
Honestly, you can't know until you're in that situation. And you shouldn't judge a woman for making whatever choice she needs to to get herself back to feeling safe and normal(ish) again.
You think you'd never agree on a settlement, and that's fine, but don't judge other women against that ideal - you really and truly don't know how you'd react, only how you hope how you would react.
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les
December 22, 2015 at 1:46 PM
I see you have begun the mature part of the conversation!
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themugen123
December 31, 2015 at 7:52 PM
Well you're a rude one. I'm a guy. His pretty face doesn't sway me. It was never proven that he raped her. Bye.
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10 Miky
December 21, 2015 at 4:56 PM
Damn Lee Soo Hyuk looks smoking hot,not gonna lie,gonna give this a try mainly for him,hope the story will be good
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11 spazmo
December 21, 2015 at 5:12 PM
yeah, i don't know that i'm ready to see park shi hoo on tv again either (residue pain)... but i might have to check this out for lee soo hyuk - really liked him in Valid Love and as Gwi...
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12 Kat w
December 21, 2015 at 5:21 PM
Will check it out solely for Lee Soo Hyuk, that hottie <3
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13 xxna
December 21, 2015 at 5:21 PM
Excited for only kwon yuri
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14 Lechatbeige
December 21, 2015 at 5:26 PM
Will pull me in for Gwi! ;-)
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15 liz
December 21, 2015 at 7:01 PM
If people want to watch or support him, fine.
But please stop trying to deny facts, the police indicted him, meaning they had proofs, evidences.
PSH did so many shady and dirty media play too, and when the case went to court, he decided to drop it and drop his lawsuit against the girl who he said ruined his image? No way an innocent person would never let go.
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Miranda
December 21, 2015 at 8:35 PM
I genuinely have no attachment to PSH here, but... no. Indictment is not proof of guilt, it's just saying that the prosecutor has collected enough information to be confident in going to trial. Not winning - confident to trial.
As for the dropping of the lawsuits? There are a lot of reasons that might happen, especially in scandal-fixated Korea. The girl is a trainee who wants to be an actress, and PSH surely didn't want to ruin his entire career. PSH's story was always that it was consensual anyhow, which alone was a black mark against him - exactly how much did he have to gain from dragging that out?
There was no trial, the only "facts" are those that got randomly and disturbingly leaked to the media. For any netzien to claim they have the line on some sort of truth in all of this is just bull - it's personal opinion blended with suspicion, and it's just crap.
I am not saying he did or didn't, I'm just saying he was not found legally responsible and did not make any statement that raped her. Because of this, it's irresponsible to insist that he's a rapist - it's fine to believe he is, but not okay to correct others who think otherwise, because no one knows what actually went down.
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Kween Ramyeon
December 21, 2015 at 8:52 PM
I would also add, that the prosecution is also just a system of the law. That means, even if the accused might not be guilty, as long as there is an accuser, it's the job of the police and prosecuting team to collect enough conditions by the book to make a formalised accusation -
Hence, if you work for the prosecution - even if you personally think the accused is not guilty, it is your job to put together enough to bring it to court, so that during the trial, more time can be spent on really testing the facts and statements.
This is what they mean that "having your day in court" that on both sides of accuser and the accused, you get teams on both sides to help you bring your case forward and fight it.
However, but is not the same as being "convicted". And if he is not legally convicted, he is not legally guilty.
As to why a civil case (suing) might be dropped - it is incredibly stressful to sue on a subject as sensitive and volatile as this. I'd imagine that their entertainment agencies probably told them to drop those suit too, as it would damage their individual reputations for longer. Or on a personal level, people also drop cases just because they want to move on with their lives, as civil suits can just become more fuel for public misinterpretations.
Rape cases are particularly difficult - even when no party is in the entertainment/public eye. They are particularly difficult to prove guilt or innocence, when it's down to two people's word and interpretation - and both are fuelled by alcohol and late night circumstances.
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Miranda
December 21, 2015 at 9:03 PM
Agreed. And in this one they're not disputing that they had sex, but the two parties are saying the conditions were different - one says it was consensual, and one says that it was nonconsensual due to being incapacitated.
Even for a court, that would make the bar incredibly high for proof. Any DNA evidence would fit both stories. Incapacitation generally indicates there wouldn't be signs of struggle or injury. So at that point you seriously are just talking about he said, she said. Total nightmare, prosecution-wise.
But in the end: no trial, no conviction, no admission of guilt, no admission of false accusation. Sometimes life is gross and messy and doesn't get a satisfyingly neat conclusion.
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⭐ Sera The Ms Temper ⭐
December 21, 2015 at 9:03 PM
I was thinking whether to put a comment like u, and here you commented first.
I have encountered with many rape cases, and always the evidence not in favour of the man. Situations like this case is more or less not much different from what i have handled before. I was not the one represented the accused especially in rape cases, but since it was a team work, I also involved.
Among the many offences, rape is considered as a top sensitive offence for public and especially for women, in which the tendency to put the total blame is on man. Again, I am not defending man, but without sufficient evidence, we cannot simply label a person as a rapist.
When I was in my first year of law school, my lecturer once asked us, will you take a rape case? Everyone said no, including male students. Then my lecturer replied, that one's is innocent until proven guilty. Even everyone pointing at him saying he is a rapist, you will never know if this person is truly a rapist unless there is clear evidence. It applies to all offence as well.
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ko
December 22, 2015 at 12:58 AM
"in which the tendency to put the total blame is on man. Again, I am not defending man,
Errrr no, no, no. You are defending. The women that suffer rape MOST of times are blamed for the rape. "they asked for it" "they are lying about the rape" "they were using provocative clothes" wrong.
The chances that rape was false claim are so low compared the chances that it did happen.
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Kween Ramyeon
December 22, 2015 at 2:58 AM
"The chances that rape was false claim are so low compared the chances that it did happen."
That statement is unverified.
Alluna
December 22, 2015 at 7:36 AM
You are so wrong on many things!! Not all men are bad and not all women are good!! you're making assumptions that's all!
you criticize those that defend him but you defending the woman is not wrong? what evidence or proof do you have that proves he's guilty? Nobody knows what really happened except for them so assuming he's guilty without having the evidence or being there is wrong and really immature.
I'm not defending him nor am I bashing him. If he did wrong then he should pay but what if he didn't? A lot of innocent people are or have been convicted wrongly because of assumptions. PSH hasn't even been convicted and look at the way you're acting!!
I like PSH's work and his scandal won't stop me from watching his dramas. Does it mean I'm promoting or defending a rapist? No it doesn't. It simply means he's good at what he does and I'm someone that can appreciate that!
16 canxi
December 21, 2015 at 7:30 PM
I'm still on the fence. I am really loving the actor Lee Soo Hyuk is becoming and really want to watch his take on a character who is not cool or successful in any way...but then I don't think I can stomach Park SHi Hoo. :/
Anyway, I'll make a decision after the show is over, I guess.
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17 Ree
December 21, 2015 at 7:44 PM
If only there was no PSH in this :(
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Fitri Iphiet
December 21, 2015 at 7:55 PM
MTE!!!!
if only....
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18 Chilbongsgurl94
December 21, 2015 at 7:58 PM
My thoughts exactly!!! Grrrr it will be sickening to watch him be a vanguard of justice. Very sorry for myself to be missing LSH but I don't think my conscience will let me stomach this show even if it ends up being great. Eagerly awaiting Cheese in the Trap & Madame Antoine!
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19 Evelia
December 21, 2015 at 8:14 PM
I am going to see the drama since it looks interesting. Maybe it will be a fun drama to watch.
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20 Kween Ramyeon
December 21, 2015 at 8:37 PM
Sigh, if anything can be gleaned by the rabid ignorance and hysteria shown so far - is I've learnt a new internet acronym - MTE.
Hurrah, meh.
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ObsessedMuch
December 21, 2015 at 11:12 PM
Hahahha that's exactly what I was thinking. Oh wait. I should have said MTE here. I am 25 but already too old for internet acronyms. Have you heard of TQ? Apparently people now do not want to type even Thank You!
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Alluna
December 22, 2015 at 7:45 AM
and here I am still wondering what the heck MTE stands for!!
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hello
December 22, 2015 at 8:41 AM
mte = my thoughts exactly.
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sogazelle
December 22, 2015 at 4:24 PM
Thank you "hello", I didn't know either...Wow...
You wonder how students manage to write proper essays nowadays in college with all these acronyms being invented everyday.
I pity all the writing classes teachers...LOL (at least I know the definition of this one: Laugh Out Loud!) Hahahaha...
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themugen123
December 31, 2015 at 7:59 PM
lol, just figured that one out! I also learn SJW recently. I feel old.
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21 deebs
December 21, 2015 at 8:50 PM
There are 3 male leads and one female lead, so i dont know how or if there are going to be any lovelines. But at the very least I just hope that PSH's character does not even touch a single strand of Yuri's hair. I might end up throwing something at the TV because damn it, the girl may not be the best actress but I don't think I can stomach seeing her having any sort of romance with PSH. I wouldn't mind seeing her having a cute loveline with LSH tho, that'd be nice.
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themugen123
December 31, 2015 at 8:00 PM
Get over yourself. Its a drama.
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22 StarlaBlaise
December 21, 2015 at 9:05 PM
More like "Neighborhood rapist".
I love OCN shows, but this I will skip.
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skelly
December 22, 2015 at 7:25 AM
Same here. It isn't just PSH, any time I find out a little too much about an actor's sleazeball personal life, I just don't watch them any more; real life keeps intruding when I try and enjoy the story. Trying to imagine PSH as a "hero" is no longer possible for me - beyond my powers of the "willing suspension of disbelief." I have the same trouble with people like LBH and Woody Allen.
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penny
December 22, 2015 at 11:36 AM
Ditto. I have the same problem. One of the things I love about Dramabeans is that the discussion centers on the actors as actors. The less I know about their personal lives, the better. As far as PSH goes, the details of that scandal mean that, at the very best, he seems really sketchy. So now I'm thinking that watching Lee Soo-hyuk means watching the rest of the drama on fast forward. Hopefully they won't share too many scenes.
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23 AJ
December 21, 2015 at 9:06 PM
Looks like to a fun drama. I am in!!
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24 redfox
December 21, 2015 at 10:30 PM
look, I would feel sorry for poor Vampire Carpenter Puppy, if I did not watch. I get it that a lot of people are hating Park Shi Hoo, but I hope you don´t let the innocent people around him receive a part of that hate, cause they have done nothing to deserve that. If you hate someone, cut him out and put the agreeable parts together with something else, there are editing programs everywhere on the net.
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PeepsLeAwesomePotato
December 22, 2015 at 12:01 AM
...But then they'd have to see his face to get to the good parts.
I mean, it's up to people to watch what they want and not watch what they don't want and it's up to the staff to work with people they think are tolerable and not work with people whom they think are not.
I wish the world were fair and that nice people don't suffer from backlash but... humans are humans and the staff (especially those in power like the director, producer, the actors...etc) were the ones who chose to work with him despite fervent and decisive bad responses. Now they'll have to deal with it like every other big or small bad decisions they've made.
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Nina Chikovani
December 22, 2015 at 11:39 AM
It's there job to work/act, or do you think pride can feed you? anyway redfox is right, this nice people did nothig wrong to get hated/ignored because of some rich rapist, who probably bought this role
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PeepsLeAwesomePotato
December 22, 2015 at 11:23 PM
What are you talking about? They're not desperate this-is-my-last-chance-for-food people. If the directors and producers don't want to work with him, they absolutely can. Sure, they might miss out some money but whether it is worth it or not is up to them to decide. The same too for the actors.
What I mean is that nobody is hating or ignoring the staff and the other actors but they may boycott/ignore/not watch the product (AKA the drama) which is fair game since that's true for all other dramas with or without a scandalous participant. Whn one decides to deal with shit, one has to be prepared to get stained by some shit. It's not a personal thing but a business thing. The viewers owe the production staff and the cast NOTHING.
But when the hate becomes personal, that's when calling out is needed.
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25 Jinsight
December 21, 2015 at 10:50 PM
I don't understand why every article about a project PSH is on has to turn into this did-he/didn't-he anger attack. If you're not going to watch it because he's in it, why even read the article and why bother putting the same type of "I'm not ready, let's rehash xyz argument that everyone's heard before here as a refresher?"
Let people who want to watch be able to watch and comment productively about the show, not about this same old issue. Does your opinion really matter? We're talking about elective entertainment, not electing a president here. Please just leave this space if you're not here to comment on the show.
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KDaddict?JCW
December 22, 2015 at 3:04 AM
Applause, followed by standing ovation, and, Thank you.
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mystique
December 22, 2015 at 6:48 AM
I love you for this!!!.. Whoever you are.. Take this kisses too??? (lol sorry if I'm bn weird)
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canxi
December 22, 2015 at 7:23 AM
"Does your opinion really matter?"
C'mon. I hate when people say that. You're not being any different right now so just let people do their thing and you do yours. If you want to comment on the show, strictly, then do so and people will no doubt respond to you. No need to belittle anyone with something that can just as easily be thrown back at you.
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Alluna
December 22, 2015 at 7:58 AM
and there you go ignoring the main point of her comment.
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canxi
December 22, 2015 at 9:51 AM
Not at all, but you are free to take from it what you will if it makes your day run smoother.
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sogazelle
December 22, 2015 at 4:35 PM
+ 1million for "Janet"'s comment....
PSH's picture is posted right in front of this topic, which means that all his "haters" who cannot even stomach the mention of his name have a choice to skip the topic, but no...they have to come in to spread negativity.
When I don't like someone, I don't even bother commenting, spreading hate is such a waste of energy that can be constructively used somewhere else.
KDaddict?JCW
December 22, 2015 at 6:17 PM
Especially since this is the Christmas season…
Peace and Joy to all.
Chanelboy loves Jang Ki Young Argh
December 23, 2015 at 1:36 AM
YES! MTE! LOL.
I open this OCN's news want to comment about the show, but it turns out to be another PSH's case, and it damn annoying.
I don't say about saying him a rapist/ not a rapist is annoying, but it makes me think, so if every pieces information in DB that contains PSH's name in it, even in New Bites, or 10 Top Drama Picks, etc, I should go over these old comments about his case?? Really?
If those don't like his name tagged in project, this is not the place you should do, or you can make petition yourself to DB's website to NOT reporting any of PSH's news in here, and let them decide.
this is a site for dramas, so obvs every news about PSH is about his upcoming projects.
And last, however perfect your deduction, how flawless your indicate his action, nothing change. Nothing. Past or his current situation. Defender nor Attacker.
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Adal
December 23, 2015 at 2:16 AM
Thank you, Janet.
This recurring argument about PSH's rape allegations accomplishes nothing and grows tedious.
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26 korfan
December 21, 2015 at 11:12 PM
Looks like it'll oscillate between serious and funny. If they keep it interesting, it shouldn't be all that bad. ..... I might just check it out.
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27 Indira
December 21, 2015 at 11:17 PM
Re:PSH. Innocent until proven guilty, but I really question the decision to cast him as a "neighborhood hero". A guy who, he says as much, had sex with a way younger and completely wasted girl. Come on, producers. It says a lot about your own moral compass to choose him in this drama, especially for a "comeback-after-a-scandal" role.
It reeks of bro code and misogyny. Will watch the drama but much later, to not get them the reward of high viewership.
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28 quirkyalone
December 22, 2015 at 12:15 AM
End the talk about PSH already. You are neither the defendant nor the accused. You don't know for certain what went down. The case was dropped!!. The guy just wants to move on with his life. Id definitely watch this drama. "He that is without sin, cast the first stone"
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ko
December 22, 2015 at 12:53 AM
Poor rich and powerful rapist (his family is powerful and rich), just want to move on with his life, can't he?
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soapbox
December 22, 2015 at 5:51 AM
“He that is without sin, cast the first stone”
Damn it, I stole a candy bar when I was 6. I guess I can't judge a rapist now.
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skelly
December 22, 2015 at 7:26 AM
LOL!
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themugen123
December 31, 2015 at 8:06 PM
No, you can't judge a rapist because you aren't a judge. You also don't know all the facts.
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29 MizMinnie
December 22, 2015 at 12:32 AM
Nope, nope, nope ....gonna stay away from this one and hope it will tank SO HARD!
I will not support any show that will try to incite a comeback for this guy by painting him as a selfless hero.
I hope the ratings will be absymal ...
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30 ko
December 22, 2015 at 12:51 AM
Sad how people are buying PSH media play.
His plan is working. He decided to drop the case, by doing this he wasn't charged for rape and innocent by law, so he can keep this card about "Innocent until proven guilty"
He saw the case turning against him, and his winning chances were low - he decided to make an agreement with the other part, and stay quiet for few time, then he cames again with his victim card, saying he wasn't guilty since there is no real charge.
By doing this, the fans can believe he is innocent, and he can manipulate them to believe he is.
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skelly
December 22, 2015 at 7:29 AM
PSH will do just fine. His family has a lot of money to buy him back into the business and he has lots of rabid fanladies (I think most of them skew older) to keep up his numbers. Plenty of actors who have done worse than him are still around.
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sogazelle
December 22, 2015 at 4:46 PM
Thank you "skelly"!
To all PSH's haters, your favorite "Oppa"/Idol/actor could be worse than PSH and you would probably never know...
Agencies exist to clean up famous people "images" and lots of famous people have even gotten away with murders and their agencies would keep mute about it.
Don't believe in every thing you read people...Even media people need to pay their bills and sensationalism sells like hotcakes.
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31 kimkim
December 22, 2015 at 1:31 AM
Comment was deleted
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32 Tomifuge
December 22, 2015 at 5:23 AM
Let me start by saying I own the box set of Family Honour.
But it's still sad that despite all these fact, fans can still justify his actions.
It's true that being celebrities will always attract opportunist, but still we cannot just throw away objectivity in the face of facts.
Celebrity status should not make you unaccountable for your actions.
If someone ordinary did what he did, and did not have money to pay off the victim (unfortunately the sad reality of life is most things and people can be bought), we all know where he would be now.
He shouldn't be allowed to be on TV. Sorry.
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33 junee
December 22, 2015 at 5:32 AM
I really like Lee Soo Hyuk but I don’t think I can stomach park shi hoo acting as some justice defender when in real life he's a dirty scumbags. Its telling what he's trying to do by picking heroic role as his comeback project. Trying to sway public opinion into forgetting that he's a rapist.
Shame all of you rapist defender and victim blamer in this site. There's a ton good looking actor out there that never involve in this kind of mess why bother with this messy one. There's always some special snowflake sitting in their high horse acting like they the only enlighten one and saying stuff like no conviction = not guilty.
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34 hello
December 22, 2015 at 5:44 AM
This seems like an attempt by PSH to win over the public with a good guy role... Normally I'd be down with this since I usually like OCN dramas, but I'll be skipping this one because of him.
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35 mystique
December 22, 2015 at 7:03 AM
My dear, you need to take several seats..
Sweetie, the comments I have read on here have been either neutral or VERY AGAINST him..
We get it you hate him.. But unless u had front row seats to everything that happened, YOU HAVE NO FACTS.. C'EST FINI.
Because we choose to watch a drama regardless of the actor's personal life, doesn't mean we advocate for whatever is going on their lives.. It just means we'd watch a good drama and enjoy ourselves.. Talking bout rapist defenders and whatnot ??
Let me leave you with this, booboo kitty... NOTHING IS EVER AS IT SEEMS!!!!!..
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mystique
December 22, 2015 at 7:13 AM
Oops this was meant for Miss June above..
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36 mystique
December 22, 2015 at 7:08 AM
I'd really really really really like to know how you know this... And please don't say from the Internet..
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Alluna
December 22, 2015 at 7:52 AM
Apparently they've been there that's why they know he's a rapist XD
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btsxfangirl94
December 22, 2015 at 8:11 AM
Given the fact that he carried an unconscious girl into his apartment and was indeed charged with quasi-rape at first before the case was dropped, not to mention his whole strategy of defending himself was basically calling the girl a slut and getting dirt on her as if that would somehow make her not a legitimate rape victim..I think it's safe to say he did infact rape her...Also looking up the percentage of people making false rape accusations, the % is very low compared to people who report actual rape cases.
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Kween Ramyeon
December 22, 2015 at 10:03 AM
I think the very significant point is that your line of reasoning is entirely mistaken and quite frightening if it is how society is to function.
The statement "it is safe to say he did in fact rape her" is exactly not safe, because none of those statements before that add up to prove that fact.
And just by throwing in the general probability of reported rape cases - is not correlation.
I think this kind of logic, or lack of logic, to be precise, is what makes things very difficult, not just for the wrongly accused, but also those who are true victims, because you reduce the standard of proof so much to just basically a bunch of loose assumptions and interpretations.
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Miranda
December 23, 2015 at 9:42 PM
"I think it’s safe to say he did infact rape her…"
No, it's safe for you to say that you personally think he raped her. It's safe to say you find him creepy and you'd never be alone with him. It's safe to say you're grossed out by him and will never watch one of his dramas again.
But as soon as you stray out of opinion and into implication, then you're wrong. That's not safe, and is in fact slanderous.
I don't know if he raped that girl or not, but the fact is that NO ONE knows what happened because the case never went to trial. So we're all going to just have to learn to live with ambiguity and just have personal opinions.
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37 Zah
December 22, 2015 at 7:13 AM
Comment was deleted
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38 Alluna
December 22, 2015 at 8:02 AM
I will see how this one goes. I honestly don't like Yuri's acting. Still Yuri will not stop me from watching LSH, PSH and a somewhat good story. I hope it delivers!
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39 btsxfangirl94
December 22, 2015 at 8:03 AM
sheeet..I wouldn't want to be anywhere around that neighbourhood..hide yo wife hide yo kids hide yo husband cuz they rapin' errybody out here!
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40 Mama J
December 22, 2015 at 9:06 AM
Honestly, people. Watch if you want. Don't watch if you don't want. Who are any of us to pass judgement on others for their choices in viewing matter? Don't we have more important things to do with our lives?
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41 quirkyalone
December 22, 2015 at 9:44 AM
@soapbox. You are just as guilty as he is. 6 or 16. Before you reply make sure you are spotless. I hope every time you try to do something, someone reminds you of the chocolate you stole at 6.
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soapbox
December 22, 2015 at 10:14 AM
I actually didn't steal a candy bar when I was 6 lol, I was just making a point to show how dumb your line was. Because some things are far worse than others, that was the point. So even if I did steal a candy bar, I'd still be able to judge a rapist. Unless you think stealing a candy bar is on par with rape.
Can't believe I had to explain this lol.
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Kween Ramyeon
December 23, 2015 at 7:21 AM
And it was just as facetious for you to throw in a made-up straw man situation when the discussion was about something quite serious.
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soapbox
December 23, 2015 at 7:51 AM
What on earth are you talking about, did you even follow our conversation from above? What strawman situation am I throwing out? quirkyalone was saying because someone stole a candy bar, they can't point fingers at a rapist because they've also "sinned". I'm saying they're NOT comparable so how is this strawman? Explain.
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Kween Ramyeon
December 23, 2015 at 11:09 AM
Actually, I did follow the conversation, which is as follows:
28 - Quirkyalone raises the adage "He that is without sin, cast the first stone”. There was no mention of stealing of candy bars as a reasonable comparison.
28.2 - to which you reply with "Damn it, I stole a candy bar when I was 6. I guess I can’t judge a rapist now."
That is what I meant by throwing in a straw man comparison - it was your decision to use an incomparable juxtaposition (with a false example anyway but stated to look real) in order to ridicule the point Quirky was making.
41 - Quirky's responds in anger at being ridiculed (the response is in anger and misunderstands your sarcasm)
41.1 - you respond with more ridicule and a sense of indignation
My point is that you were being pretty facetious in the first place- when perhaps one could have looked at the adage differently by thinking about everyday "crimes" people feel able to justify to themselves, but could have terrible consequences. Off the top of my head. eg. what about people who drive drunk, but get away with it? Those are crimes that only become recognised as serious when there's a terrible accident.
But instead you chose to use a ridiculous comparison because you were out to ridicule someone's point, instead of thinking about it fairly.
To Quirkyalone - don't bite because a candy bar is waved, there could be a Willy Wonka on the other end...
soapbox
December 23, 2015 at 11:39 AM
@Dramapanda
Hell yeah I was mocking Quirkyalone's point. Unlike what you were trying to say, I didn't treat the rape as a joke, I treated Quirkyalone's statement towards not being able to judge a rapist 'because we all sin' as a joke, because it's damn ridiculous to think we can't judge his actions. There's a difference, quite a big one and it's interesting how you're purposely pretending not to see it, I'm sure (or hope) you're smarter than that.
How was my first comment strawman when I was mocking literally what Quirkyalone was implying, which was further confirmed in her second comment where she said I was just as guilty for stealing candy as him being guilty for rape, and that's why I can't judge him. How is it strawman when me and her already established that understanding?
"41 – Quirky’s responds in anger at being ridiculed (the response is in anger and misunderstands your sarcasm)" -- Quirkyalone meant what she said, anger or not. And it was to further her establish her belief if “He that is without sin, cast the first stone” as if all sins are on the same level.
"Off the top of my head. eg. what about people who drive drunk, but get away with it? Those are crimes that only become recognised as serious when there’s a terrible accident." -- First of all, we weren't talking about crimes we were talking about "sins". But okay, on the level of crimes, how many people here judging him do you think have gone through a drinking and driving accident? Or something on that level? I sure as hell haven't. My example of stealing candy would more likely be closer to the level of everyday "sins" that she was talking about, like lying or stealing or cheating and such, since she's saying that everyone sins so we can't throw stones. Unless you're saying she thinks all of us on here have done things on the same level crimes as rape and that's why we can't judge him.
Kween Ramyeon
December 23, 2015 at 12:29 PM
It's good you're owning that you just set out to mock, because there's as much as you did achieve.
To me, it did read as if you took the case of rape quite flippantly. The reasons are a) you completely ignored Quirky's comments about the rape not being proven (also discussed extensively in the thread and b) by introducing a ridiculous comparison to the broader adage she raised (introducing bait which she took, hook, line and sinker)
It is not evident you are interested in the legal constitution for the conviction of rape, nor have any interest in thinking about whether guilt is simply prescribed by assumptions made without actual proof. So let's not even aspire to complex thinking about whether "everyday sins" in different contexts have more significance, and thus whether are comparable to judgement equally to all crimes of humanity.
Why even pretend there was any higher ambition? Everyone already accepts that apart from under bridges, trolls live on the internet. And they like candy.
soapbox
December 23, 2015 at 12:54 PM
@Dramapanda
"you completely ignored Quirky’s comments about the rape not being proven" -- But her/his quote of “He that is without sin, cast the first stone” is under the presumption that if he did commit that crime, we can't judge him because we all sin. Her/his second comment kept going by that stance. And that's the point of view that I mocked. How are you not getting what we already went over?
It's interesting now you think to bring in all the legal terms to steer the conversation. The legal case is long over and I don't care to get into the legal aspect since it's all moot now, but legal isn't the only aspect of rape and we all know it especially since so few get convicted. There's the societal and cultural aspect and that was what I was going by thus far. You can go ahead and hold onto your legal 'dropped case' and 'was never found guilty' terms for him, no one's stopping you. I'll go by how culturally, when a girl is black out drunk and can't give consent and a man still had sex with her, her waking up having no idea what happened, that's rape.
When did I pretend there was a higher ambition when my first comment was literally two sentences long. I just don't like how you're claiming I'm mocking a woman's rape when I was mocking Quirky's view of “He that is without sin, cast the first stone”.
Kween Ramyeon
December 23, 2015 at 2:04 PM
" I’ll go by how culturally, when a girl is black out drunk and can’t give consent and a man still had sex with her, her waking up having no idea what happened, that’s rape."
That's it in a nutshell - you don't care for legal requirements for proof, and your definition of culture - is just prejudicial assumptions made without proof of real facts, or care for the legal system.
Essentially, by not caring for real justice and being a person of extreme prejudice, you are in effect being flippant about rape.
But I think much of this goes over your head.
soapbox
December 23, 2015 at 2:27 PM
It's not that I don't care about the justice system, I just don't trust the justice system. What the justice system concludes is not be all end all for me, especially since it's rigged against women and minorities. There's a reason why so many people don't report rape. Let's say that the court ruled him innocent or guilty, can you tell me you'd be 100% sure that was the case?
She was blackout drunk and he acknowledged that he had sex with her, that's enough for me. The fact that you don't see how what he did was culturally/morally wrong and constitutes as rape just because the law hasn't said so, says a lot about you. Yet you say I'm the flippant one about rape victims.
But okay, go ahead and just say it's going over my head. I have nothing else to prove.
Kween Ramyeon
December 23, 2015 at 3:10 PM
Ah I see, to paraphrase your position:
- because you don't trust the justice system, you think just hearsay of a situation that happened behind closed doors, of which you're not privy to - is enough for you to take a judgement call on another human being.
-because I don't leap to judging someone for rape via information acquired via hearsay, and look to the justice system, for all its flaws, as a way society has agreed to manage its problems, and probably most of all, because I call you out for being a troll - my moral compass is therefore at fault.
Sounds also like you have your own issues to do with sex and morality that drive how your logic synapses blitz from a cluster of assumptions to a foregone conclusion. You may think you treat rape seriously, but the way you jumble up your own moral hang-ups and facts, makes things even harder for real rape victims.
soapbox
December 23, 2015 at 3:37 PM
Ah yes, you missed a few thing though--
Because I believe the woman who said she was raped when she was blackout drunk, I have sexual hangups.
Because I try not to doubt what rape victims say in hopes that more would feel safe to speak up, I'm hurting them.
Because I have a differing opinion than you about a rapist, I'm a troll.
You know what, even though I'm obviously such a terrible person, I think I can live with myself. :)
Kween Ramyeon
December 23, 2015 at 5:44 PM
Actually it's more like the below:
- because you chose to believe the woman, based on hearsay, to the point of condemning another human being without any proof, and based on the loose description you quoted earlier of what you perceived to have happen - yes, you are basing your judgements on your own sexual morality without any care for justice.
--
Yes, you are because by doing so, you are establishing that it is okay to believe simply because of personal bias, without looking to establish or support a system of justice. Ultimately it hurts victims, because it lessens the burden of proof. That means it might happen more often that wrongly accused men can get blamed, which upon further appeal, these verdicts get turned over, it's terrible backlash on real victims.
And even here on a forum, I can't take you seriously that you truly care about rape victims, because you' ve shown that you simply support based on bias. What more in the real world?
No, that's based on your actions in the above comments.
No one said you're a terrible person. That's another straw man. Whether you are happy living with yourself is irrelevant but sure, go for it.
soapbox
December 23, 2015 at 8:06 AM
Hell, I'll go steal a candy bar right now. So once I steal a candy bar, does that mean I won't be able to judge him? Does that change my argument at all? It's not like I said something far-fetched, and quirkyalone literally still said stealing a candy bar made me as guilty as a rapist and therefore I can't judge.
How about a pencil, I've taken a pencil before so I guess that makes my sin real.
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Miranda
December 23, 2015 at 9:51 PM
This is genuinely embarrassing, you're completely misusing a well-known biblical passage about compassion and forgiveness. I have no idea how you've internalized this as a ranked list of sin severity, and how if you've only committed Level 3 sins you're still okay to judge anyone Level 4 or greater.
Before you try to use this device in an argument, you need to understand its meaning. We all sin. We are all capable of sinning. That means that your vitriol against a sinner can at any time be directed by others against you, when your sin is discovered. Show sympathy and understanding now to others, because one day you will be the one being judged.
This is not a religious lesson, it's the entire point of the story.
Miranda
December 23, 2015 at 9:46 PM
"Because some things are far worse than others, that was the point. So even if I did steal a candy bar, I’d still be able to judge a rapist."
That is not remotely the meaning of that passage. It's part of a story where a woman is being brought in front of a crowd to be stoned as an adulterer. Do you seriously think Jesus was saying "any adulterers, you can't throw stones, but if you committed any of the smaller sins, go get a rock it's stoning time"?
It's a line about empathy and forgiveness. None of us is perfect and all of us can sin, so before judging you need to attempt understanding.
I am not even religious and this is a pretty straightforward lesson.
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42 Trinity 🍆
December 22, 2015 at 9:45 AM
I personally don't plan to watch this show because of PSH, but please don't point fingers at others. If people want to watch this show then they should and do so without guilt. I personally think PSH raped that girl, but until there is actual hard proof it's only my own personal judgement and opinion that he is a rapist. So did he do it? Only the people in that room know for sure. So don't call others names, or shame them for wanting to see this show because at this point if he did it or not is more opinion then fact.
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43 Mai
December 22, 2015 at 1:43 PM
I'm glad Park Shin-hoo has decided to come back on to the small screen! I have watched all the dramas he's been casted in (loved... still love Princess' Man!!!!!). Regardless of whatever happens in his personal life, I still love him as an actor. This drama will certainly be on my watchlist!
Lee Soo-hyuk, oh how it seemed "What's Up" was soo soo long ago. I'm glad he's becoming more and more popular! He's certainly stole my heart ^>^
I don't know how I feel about Yuri... Idols turn actors are always so cringing to watch.... Oh I only hope she isn't given such a big role... >_<
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44 yaywon
December 22, 2015 at 1:54 PM
ugh I was hoping never to see this guy on the screen again.
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sogazelle
December 22, 2015 at 4:52 PM
so don't watch him....you know you have that choice...right?
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yaywon
December 23, 2015 at 1:19 AM
Alright. Isn't it great how useless both of our comments are?
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45 jun85
December 22, 2015 at 10:39 PM
if you had any idea about the percentage of rape cases that are actually prosecuted you might have a shred more sympathy but somehow I doubt it. it is so hard to prosecute a rape case let alone get a conviction so yeah I am going to believe someone when they say what happened to them instead of some rich older dude.
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LillyLee
December 23, 2015 at 12:22 AM
That is just flat out crazy.
Women lie just as much as men do.
Automatically thinking that all men accused are guilty is wrong in every way possible.
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Alessar
December 23, 2015 at 6:52 AM
Pretty much the situation is black out sex and morning after regret. He says she was drunk but seemed coherent (by US standards this is a "she can't give consent" situation meaning it's automatically rape, so there's not question of her needing to lie). A lot of people have said they think she was out cold the whole time which would make it super-creepy, I personally think it's possible that his story she woke up, freshened up and seemed seemed coherent is credible (more later) and he made a bad choice by not having her just sleep it off on his couch. The next morning she woke up in bed with him and he wanted to do it again and that time she said she was too embarrassed to say no. So the second time they had sex it was clearly not rape. After all that he gave her his number because he wanted to see her again as she left; and then when she told her friend what had happened, she suggested they sue his ass to make $$ (those texts are public record). So there's no question they had sex, and that she wasn't able to give consent one of the two times. The question is basically was he just stupid or actively malicious?
Now the thing is, something like this happened to someone I know when I was in college. I was in a share house for the summer and the girls across the hall went out one Friday night to a frat party with the plan to get drunk and pick up guys. They succeeded. The girls and 2 frat guys came home, then the 2nd girl and her guy went to his place, leaving 1 of the neighbors and the guy she brought home. Now the dude was a ripped, hot athlete, very good looking and not very drunk (but a little). She was pretty drunk though still up and talking. I didn't feel it was a good situation so I tried to get him to go home. She shushed me and told me to get out of her room and shut the door in my face. Sex definitely happened (I was across the hall, and it was loud.) However, the next morning when I apologized for butting in, she had blacked out and didn't remember any of it. So, rape? I think clearly yes. But was some of it her fault? Yes, I think so, she went out with intent to get drunk and hook up and it happened, that she had regrets later doesn't change that it started with a bad decision on her part. Or that she was functional enough at the time to kick me out so she could bonk this very hot guy. When you're a drunk driver, we throw the book at you; the logic is you know if you take 1 drink you might take another and so on until you're impaired and we make you 100% take the responsibility for that. For some reason we don't use the same logic for sexual consent even if there's no physical coercion at all and I don't think that's fair.
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46 Adal
December 23, 2015 at 2:27 AM
I wonder if DB will recap this drama. I hope they do, if only for the comments of rabid haters. It will be hysterical, but might be a way for the haters to get it out of their system and MOVE ON.
For instance, I used to be a fan of Kim Hyun Joong before his girlfriend beating fiasco, now I can't stand to look at him. But do I waste my time commenting on every article that comes out about him? NO, I simply move on to something else that I like and can stand.
Enough with the vitriol already!
Merry Christmas!
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47 visitor
December 25, 2015 at 12:01 PM
Please tell me you're not actually thinking of recapping this drama. Please.
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themugen123
December 31, 2015 at 8:22 PM
I hope they do because I like all the cast and the drama sounds like it will be awesome.
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