I Remember You: Episode 11
by dramallama
The Big Reveal is here, and we’re given much more than just the identity of Lee Joon-young. The attempt to humanize him and evoke sympathy is somewhat successful, in that we realize the dire circumstances that created the monster he became. In that same vein, we see the reflection of those circumstances—loneliness and abandonment—in Min’s upbringing and how that affected his current being. It’s a strong case for the argument that monsters are created, as victims of circumstance.
EPISODE 11: “Birth of a Monster”
Ji-an recalls her fear of death in the moment and admits that she was scared she would never see Hyun again. He steps closer to confirm that she’s alive and that he’s here, and in that moment, Ji-an goes in for a kiss.
Hyun reacts stoically, and Ji-an opens her eyes mid-kiss, suddenly realizing her mistake. She breaks away and desperately searches her mind for an explanation. And she comes up with: “I usually do this when I die and come back to life.” *facepalm*
She digs herself a deeper hole by rambling on about natural selection, which gets Hyun to smile in amusement. She concludes her mortification by saying it was instinct and walks away with her things to hide away in embarrassment. Before she locks herself inside the room, Hyun expresses his appreciation for her coming back alive, and she thanks him for finding her.
Hyun notices a black notebook on the table and his smile drops. He flips through the notebook and realizes that it’s the Officer Yang’s missing notebook. His lips curling into a smile, Hyun deduces that Lee Joon-young saw his ad in the fishing magazine and responded.
In his basement, Hyun looks at the evidence: the notebook, newspaper clippings, and the banks account book. He decides that whatever he finds, he won’t run away anymore.
Ji-an kick the air in frustration, wondering if she should have just died then instead of dying of mortification now. She turns towards the door and sees Hyun staring at her. He shows her the notebook and tells her that Lee Joon-young seems to have paid him a visit.
Joon-ho sharpens his knife in his kitchen and makes dinner. He looks out of his window and smiles eerily.
The next morning, Hyun and Ji-an follow the clues in the notebook to a small village home, where a family and 13 workers disappeared overnight in 1993. It’s a cold case, but Hyun figures that the case will probably show them more about Lee Joon-young.
Walking through the home, Ji-an shrieks in surprise when a woman runs through the home. Hyun sends her a disapproving look, and she sheepishly admits that she’s afraid of ghosts.
In the room they enter, there’s a picture drawn on the wall. Hyun recognizes it as Purgatory, as known under Catholicism. He pounds on the wall, listening for a hollow room, and then he grabs a hammer to knock down the wall.
Min gets a text from “uncle,” telling him that the person got to his doorstep. What does that mean?
Hyun breaks down a section of the wall to reveal a secret door. The two enter this room and find a coffin with a skeleton. But why would a body be hidden here?
By the sight of the rosary and Catholic symbolism, Hyun presumes that the body was hidden to be erased from memory and, in turn, sin. In Catholicism, if a person committed suicide or was murdered, the body could not reach heaven. With enough time, the case would be forgotten and the person could possibly escape Purgatory.
Hyun recognizes the bone structure to be of a woman, but they need expert eyes to tell them more. And he knows just the person: Joon-ho.
As they leave, Hyun mentions that they should talk to the ghost who’s been following them. When they reach the top of the stairs, a woman stares at them through the window, catching Ji-an by surprise.
In the interrogation room, Hyun asks the woman to tell them what she knows. She followed them because she wanted to tell them, right? The woman smiles and says that she had only heard the story through the other workers on the field.
The discovered skeleton was the youngest daughter of the family who lived in the home. One day, she came home severely injured, and soon after, her belly grew. Her pregnancy was hidden from the outside world. When she gave birth, her first words were: “Get that thing away from me.”
Our suspect doesn’t address the question of rape and continues her story — that the child was raised in private with no record of relations to the family. Looking at Hyun, she pointedly mentions that the child was different. His mother, family, and everyone despised and feared him. As a result, he spent most of the time alone.
Hyun realizes now that Lee Joon-young had possibly been telling the truth in his interrogations with his father, though his father thought they were all lies. Our storyteller continues: After his mother committed suicide, the child was trapped alone forever. She became his only contact with the outside world, as she delivered his meals. Sometimes, she would bring him books to keep him company.
They ask if she remembers this child’s face, and she tells them with certainty that she does. Hyun and Ji-an stare at the drawing of this child, a match to Lee Joon-young.
Team Leader Kang returns to work with a cast, and his team celebrates his return with a welcome back party. Just as Myung-woo begins to cut the cake, Team Leader Kang stands up for another dramatically boring speech about the lessons he’s learned and how beautiful life is.
He suddenly stops when he notices Ji-an isn’t present. She exits the interrogation room with Hyun, who passes by the party with little care. Ji-an sticks around just long enough to suggest other purposes of cake, and a cake smearing party ensues.
Hyun drives away, thinking back to the rest of the story. On the day that everyone disappeared from the home, the woman had released Joon-young. She was knocked unconscious, and she woke up to all the dead bodies in the home. Hyun imagines this scene with Lee Joon-young, looking innocently sinister.
Joon-ho puts together the bones of the discovered skeleton, and he takes off his gloves to touch the bones with his bare hands. He says aloud, “It’s been a long time… Mom.” Yes, he is Lee Joon-young.
From behind, someone comments on his reunion with his mom. It’s Lawyer Jung, and Joon-ho tells him that Hyun will arrive soon. Joon-ho asks why he prompted his hyung to come. “What do you really want, Min?”
Min asks right back, “Then what about you, Uncle? Didn’t you want to see him again, going so far to live next to him?” Joon-ho confirms that possibility and tells Min to share his reason. “I just wanted him to know.”
Before he answers what he wanted Hyun to know, Min decides to leave. He doesn’t want Hyun to figure everything out like this. Now that wouldn’t be fun, would it?
As he thinks back to his childhood, Min clarifies what he wants Hyun to know, “What it’s like to be abandoned, to be completely forgotten, to disappear. I want hyung to know that feeling. I want to show him what his abandoned brother became.”
Hyun catches him walking out and asks for his help. The Three Musketeers reunite in the autopsy room, where Hyun explains how he found the skeleton. He wanted to meet someone, and the response to his message was this body. He prefaces their involvement with their helpfulness in their previous case and asks for their thoughts.
Min suggests that this woman’s skeleton may hold the person’s story. The person may be hoping for understanding, even possibly sympathy. Joon-ho confirms this possibility, saying that some people search for that one person’s understanding. Min agrees, “Humans are feeble, no matter how strong they seem.”
Hyun accepts their points as valid, but he admits that he’s not interested in understanding or sympathy. He’s distracted by a message from Ji-an, asking if he needs anything from the supermarket. That prompts his leave, and he suggests that the three of them go out for soju later.
Hyun finds Ji-an grocery shopping and takes over. Ji-an mentions that she should host Joon-ho and Lawyer Jung some time, since they helped save her. Hyun doesn’t think it’s a good idea and suggests that she stay away from those two. As he walks off, Ji-an wonders if he’s just jealous.
Their next stop is the pillow shop, where Ji-an explains that she suffers from neck and back pain because she faced off one hell of a guy recently. The employee sends Hyun some cheeky looks and recommends their second best pillow because the number one pillow is your lover’s arm pillow. The two wade in the awkward assumption. Haha.
Hyun cleans the house and ponders why he returned to Korea each time, which correlates with the murders and bank deposits that occurred. Ji-an offers to help clean, but Hyun doesn’t allow her to impose on his hobby.
He asks his stalker if she remembers why he returned to Korea, and though Ji-an initially shakes her head, she remembers each reason. A theory competition and special lecture in 2011, the detective institute in 2012, and his first summer break as a professor in 2013. He asks Ji-an to tell him everything that he did during these times.
Sitting together on the stairs, Ji-an recalls that he would have fans who’d give him gifts every time he came to Korea. Hyun only now remembers these gifts and realizes that he never opened them.
He thanks Ji-an by patting her on the head and complimenting that she’s useful sometimes. And she returns the gesture, saying that she’ll wait. In her head, she clarifies that she’ll wait for Hyun to explain the story behind his brother.
Staring at Ji-an, Hyun’s smile drops, and he tells her that his mind is complicated. As Ji-an shrugs and walks away, Hyun calls for a favor in English, which earns him a glare from and English-illiterate Ji-an.
The team is on a new case, this time with the death of a minor, a high school boy. Ji-an and Hyun arrive at the scene together, and Myung-woo tries to recall why this is so suspicious. He vaguely remembers their conversation that hinted that they lived together, but Hyun snaps him out of his recollection.
Joon-ho analyzes the wounds on the student, who has no form of identification on him. Myung-woo insists that it’s a crime committed by a peer, and Joon-ho specifies that the wounds seem long-term. Hyun adds that typically, this would be a case of family abuse or school bullying. Ji-an suspects that the crime scene isn’t necessarily this location, based on the dirt on his shoes and scrapes on his fingers. It seems that someone dragged him to this location.
Hyun notices that the student seems to be undernourished, since his clothes are slightly bigger, though Joon-ho notices that the brand of his accessories suggest that he’s well off. This location seems to avoid the surveillance of any cameras, making it a perfect spot for undocumented abuse. Team Leader Kang notes that criminals are at times like profilers and asks if Joon-ho is a profiler too. 50/50 chance, try again.
The student’s parents come into the autopsy room, and the mother breaks down at the sight of her son. His father hangs back in shock. The mother tells our investigators that Yong-jae was an adopted child, but she cared for him like her own precious child. His father mentions the possibility of the high school gang, and Hyun steps in, seemingly suspecting the parents. Where did they just come from? Could they search their home, if they have nothing to hide?
Hyun and Ji-an go through the home, but the search comes up empty, with no useful evidence. Hyun notes that something is off, or possibly it’s fitting. The things that the student wears are clean, but the objects that should stay home are quite dirty. He dresses well, but he’s messy indoors — kind of like Ji-an.
Hyun takes out a family photo, which he claims to have “borrowed,” and it shows Yong-jae isolated from his family. He wonders if our victim suffered from emotional abuse as well.
Eun-bok and Seung-joo find the contact information of the bullies, though they claims something seems off. Myung-woo continues working on the case, and he’s met with a delivery man who has a package for David. He offers to give it to Dave, though the man insists on David (ha). Hyun arrives and takes the package.
In his basement, Hyun opens the package and reads the note, which tells him that the remaining 5 boxes will be sent as soon as possible. Hyun takes a deep breath and opens the lavender boxes. They each hold a crossword puzzle and a picture note in the same style as the ones he’s been receiving.
Hyun realizes that Min has been trying to send him messages all along. Was he asking Hyun to stop him? He tries to put together the words and numbers in the clues, but he can’t seem to figure it out.
In his art studio, Min thinks back to the times he saw Hyun in Korea. Each time a fan delivered his lavender box, Min had watched from afar.
Looking at the crossword puzzles, Hyun finds that the clue cards may not pertain to the message. The flipped mirror image of the crossword puzzles partnered with a binary code reveal a new message.
Hyun finds Indebted Friend and asks him to look in to the three people that these numbers pertain to: family issues, relationship issues, relation to crimes, or abandonment. Suddenly, it occurs to him that abandonment could be Min’s murder motive.
He asks Indebted Friend to find whether or not these people are related to any of the picture people he shared with him earlier, and this time, Hyun asks for a favor instead of using his debt. Indebted Friend looks surprised, and Hyun follows up by explaining that the friend plays a big role in art, and art is relevant in everything. He gives his friend 3 days.
Our investigative team stakes out for a couple days to find the high school bullies and finally chases them down. Ji-an and Team Leader Kang are stationed by the victim’s home. Team Leader Kang tries to make conversation by asking how she’s doing, but they’re interrupted by Myung-woo’s update that they’ve caught the bullies. But Ji-an exits the car and stays behind, claiming that something still feels off.
When she arrives outside the home, she unexpectedly finds Hyun there. They watch as the victim’s family exits from the home happily, seemingly unfazed by the death in the family. Hyun asks Ji-an to request them as witnesses.
Myung-woo and Team Leader Kang interrogate the high school bullies, who keep their mouths shut. But they betray a bit of fear behind their cockiness when Myung-woo slams his laptop threateningly.
Hyun addresses the parents in the interrogation room, with Lawyer Jung there to support their defense. He asks the parents to provide alibis for the day their son died. He claims that something felt very off since the day that they discovered their dead son. In the autopsy room, Joon-ho echoes the same sentiment.
They weren’t dressed like people who had worried overnight about their missing son. There were no call records to their son when he was obviously missing, and they had cancelled the hearing at the school for the bullies, even though Yong-jae was clearly affected.
The team finds the surveillance footage of the bullies beating up Yong-jae, but Hyun continues with his theory. He speculates that the parents wanted to cancel their adoption. Did they want Yong-jae to die? Or what about this: Where they relieved that their son had died?
Yong-jae’s mother neither confirms nor denies this fact and demands for evidence. In the surveillance footage, a witness passes by. The witness stops but ultimately walks away, ignoring the scene. It’s too dark in the footage to tell, but we see that this witness is Yong-jae’s mother.
Lawyer Jung thanks Hyun for his imaginative speculations but notes that nothing can be confirmed without evidence. In addition, the parents did not directly kill their son, though they may have abandoned him.
In the elevator, Lawyer Jung asks the parents to come clean, at least in front of him. He’s legally bound to keep his clients’ secrets, and Yong-jae’s mother obliges with the truth.
Hyun meets with Indebted Friend, who followed through with his promise. Indebted Friend hands him an envelope with the information, but Hyun hesitates to open it. He leaves with a simple “Good work,” and reluctantly opens the envelope.
Min stands by Yong-jae’s dead body and tells him, “You have a person who’s abandoned you but no one who will remember you. Not even your parents, siblings, or friends. I will remember you.”
On his way out of the room, he runs into Joon-ho, who watches him suspiciously.
Yong-jae’s mother receives a card in the mail, and it’s one of the cryptic messages delivered to Hyun and the victims. Uh-oh.
Min drives off, and Hyun stops before taking out the documents in the envelope, already suspecting yet fearing that the one person in the envelope is Min.
COMMENTS
The pace of this show really factors in the development and focus on characters, and I enjoy this introspective look into our three main geniuses/psychopaths. The reveal of Min and Joon-young were not big surprises, and I think the reveals were perfectly timed–keeping us prepared through foreshadowing but also providing us more than just the label on the person. I expected Joon-young’s reveal to be a little more unsettling, but I found myself surprisingly sympathetic towards his character. While Hyun may feel little sympathy for the man who killed his father and kidnapped his brother, I can’t help but feel sorry for him. He grew up abandoned, unappreciated, and forgotten, suffocated to the point of psychotic revenge on the people who surrounded him. I presume that Hyun will soon feel the same way, or at least show an inkling of sympathy, especially since his younger brother is a perfect reflection of Lee Joon-young.
At the same time, I’m not sure how trusting I should be of Joon-young. It’s true that he’s made a successful alias as Joon-ho, and it seems like he’s thriving by using his genius psychopathic tendencies in a good way. But that’s very little to put my trust in. I would like to believe that this gray area, this complexity in his character gives him more humanity, but that would be naïve. Just because he’s supposedly a better person now and searches for sympathy by sharing his story, doesn’t mean his past just disappears. He still took away Hyun’s family and Ji-an’s father, and we don’t know what role he played as Min’s uncle. Did he purposefully create these circumstances to mirror his, so that Min might become the person he became? Was that his attempt at stirring sympathy from Hyun? It’s working on me, but you need more than just your sob story to get to robotic Hyun.
Speaking of Hyun’s robotic nature, I found his reaction (or lack thereof) to Ji-an’s kiss completely hilarious. It was in character of him to just stare at her, and I love that his initial deadpan melted when a flustered Ji-an started making irrelevant excuses for her behavior. Though the romance was muted for this episode, I can see their partnership becoming increasingly stronger, with Hyun realizing Ji-an’s usefulness in knowing him. She seems to know him better than himself, and I think he’s warmed up to the fact that she obsessively stalked him. It’s paying off now, and he’s learning to appreciate it. Especially with two psychos on his tail.
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Tags: featured, I Remember You, Jang Nara, Seo In-gook
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26 LarryMimosa
July 29, 2015 at 6:40 PM
"I think the reveals were perfectly timed–keeping us prepared through foreshadowing but also providing us more than just the label on the person"
Yes, perfectly timed is the key. When Min was first revealed-was it episode 8?-it did cross my mind that the the storyline could suffer as is the case of far two many dramas. But this keeps getting better and better-- there's ample room for developing the characters. As as mentioned, it's very layered but all these stories weave into a very cohesive direction for the show. Great writing, directing and acting.
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27 evelynray
July 29, 2015 at 6:42 PM
This show, each episode never fails to surprise me. Especially the Three Musketeers's intellectual levels never fail to entertain me.
I have been wondering how could Joon-ho be Joon-young, because he was already young adult during 90s, so he should have the same face now. However, Detective Yang's notebook reveals that he went for plastic surgery and I'd never thought of that! I really like how they reveal Joon-ho's real identity as Joon-young, outlining his psychopathic personality.
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28 Thaipeppa
July 29, 2015 at 6:46 PM
Seo In Guk is HAAAAWT...I love the way they style him--from his hair, down to his shoes. He oozes manliness and confidence. Ughhh. I can't get enough.
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29 dfwkimchi
July 29, 2015 at 6:47 PM
This is one clever drama! All the reveals have been understated n timely and expressions /acting very subtle.
I am glued to this dramaon Mon-Tue.
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30 Hipployta
July 29, 2015 at 7:04 PM
Lee Hyun's Dad was a terrible Dad and psychologist...ijs
So glad so many people here are watching the drama
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Miranda
July 29, 2015 at 7:14 PM
At the very least he wasn't very good at what he did, but at least that's been consistent throughout: of all people, who would think a psychologist would lock up his son out of suspicion? And now we know he also dismissed Lee Joon Young's true testimony about his parents, and also may have put others at risk by not thinking things through.
And of course we saw that Hyun was at least the part-time adult in that household at a very young age. It's all very interesting.
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Kaybee
July 30, 2015 at 8:29 AM
Most psychologist are people with deep memorial problems themselves despite having natural instinct for understanding other people (empathy and sympathy). It is the self interest of their own problems which make them interested in the subject. Unless s/he is rational and objective, an emotional psychologist even though he has a knack for understanding other people, will be marred with more issues. Hyun's father fits in this category. He got carried away by his own doubts and fears.
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Kaybee
July 30, 2015 at 1:25 PM
OMG....spelling mistakes... not memorial, emotional...
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31 ian
July 29, 2015 at 7:08 PM
I can't wait for Episode 12 recap. Park Bogeum is killing this drama! He's so good.
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webby
July 29, 2015 at 9:44 PM
I agree. I find myself anticipating his scenes, wanting to see Min's spectrum of emotion from the subtlest to the most open. Even in his silences Park Bogum's expression just tugged my heart and curiosity.
Park Bogum had been the best thing in Cantabile Tomorrow and he is shaping into the best thing in this series too.
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Kaybee
July 30, 2015 at 8:31 AM
Agree absolutely. I've watched Ep. 12 and I believe Park Bo Gum gave the most brilliant performance I've seen for a while now. He doesn't over act and is in great control of his craft. He will go very far in his career. I LOVE his subtle and yet passionate acting.
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32 fantasy
July 29, 2015 at 7:17 PM
I am soooo satisfied, as I was thinking that how no one recognized LJY if he is LJH now, and they came up with P.S theory , okay now that gives my mind a rest. About Min, it is okay not to know because he was so little, and Hyeon has a hole in memories.....
By the way Ji An, "animals' natural instinct to extend their generation !!!! " well the theory is right but you should not use in that situation, you just made it worse!!!! :D :D
I took 15 minutes break after the scene, so embarrassed I was!!!!
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33 K
July 29, 2015 at 7:32 PM
OMO....thank you Dramallama for the recap... :D
another great episode to start the week...
a bit shock for LJY's back story, and OMO D.O's eyes...so creepy :0
and ohhhh Min...it's not too late right?your hyung remembered you now, so sad that you felt abandoned but but but....aigoo :)
two thumbs up for uri SIG :D what a great actor you...FANGIRLING mode ON!!! :D
squeeing so much of OTP's moments, just a simple bonding but the feels is there!!
kudos writer-nim PD-nim....keep up the good work!!!
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34 Aries
July 29, 2015 at 7:48 PM
Thanks for the recap! This show is coming close to KMHM as my favourite drama of the year so far; the intelligent plot, directing, acting and music are all top-notch, a rare treat in kdramaland.
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KeikoAnn
July 30, 2015 at 8:57 AM
+1
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35 Rachela
July 29, 2015 at 8:23 PM
I LOVE THIS SHOW ... so much. Every Monday I am so depressed about work, and then I remember I have an episode of this to watch :)
One thing bugged me though, I'm not surprised they messed this up... you've been able to have full funeral masses and proper Catholic burials for people who commit suicide for at least the last thirty years as far as I know...
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Miranda
July 29, 2015 at 8:42 PM
Some people are old-school religion, just because it's allowed doesn't mean the family follows suit. The family doesn't sound well-adjusted to start with.
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growingbeautifully
July 29, 2015 at 9:35 PM
Yes, Catholicism definitely does provide funerals for those who died due to suicide or murder, and all the more the funeral prayers are geared towards hope and giving comfort to the bereaved. I was thinking it was more likely because the family was too ashamed of what happened to the girl (rape and suicide) that kept the Joon Yeong ostracised and incarcerated and the body of the daughter sealed behind a wall. However it was interesting that the room the coffin was in, had unshuttered windows!
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miilo
July 30, 2015 at 6:35 AM
Yes! Those unshuttered windows (not to mention turning Catholicism into a weird cult)! Or maybe not the windows, but the whole room that had laid intact throughout all those years. Considering that punch of people evaporated into thin air after the "burial", at least some sort of police investigation must have been held and I would picture how they turned the whole house upside down with or without an inbuilt tomb. Windows would serve a purpose in that you can see from outside what´s in there and leave it alone, but it´s still weird that no-one had entered the room until now.
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36 osmanthustea
July 29, 2015 at 8:39 PM
Okay I'm slightly confused by the continuity about that creepy woman.
She released LJY from captivity, and was knocked out. When she regained consciousness, she saw dead bodies all around her. Then what happened? Did LJY knock her out again so that he can take care of the corpses? Since the newspaper reported that the whole house disappeared... (And I don't mind to nitpick but... if LJY has been incarcerated all that time, how did he find the fighting skills and all to murder so many people in one fell swoop?)
I have an uneasy feeling about her, because she turned up at the house oh-so-conveniently. Maybe she too had some form of discreet communication with LJY? After all, they had a sort of connection, since she was his only friend.
If my basic Korean hasn't failed me, I think Joon-ho's text message to Min said "the kid has come to the door". I wonder whom that 'kid' is.
Can't wrap my head around the relationship b/n Min and Joon-ho. He started off by calling LJY 'ajuhsshi' when he woke up in the car, whereas 'sam cheon' (uncle) is a term that's more for relatives, right? And yet Min was also brought up by some other family (possibly the same one as his 'first' client in the show). Obviously neither is very pleased that the other has been trying to get close to Hyeon. Can we have more more more backstory on the evoltuion of this relationship too, please? Not just their individual stories... I've been sorta rooting for our psychotic murderer all this time - mainly because of his friednship (I hope?) with Ji-an, so I'm really glad we get to understand him better here.
*squeal* at Hyeon's protectiveness over Ji-an, and her thinking it's his jealousy hehe. And that pillow shopping! Awww. Now that's on PPL I can get behind, because it was just too funny and cute! And that grouchy, possessive way Hyeon refused help with household chores because that's his hobby! Really loved their conversation on the stairs about Hyeon's past visits to Korea ─ if there's no context, it'll almost look as though they're just having a nice chat.
As some other commentors have mentioned, I really like how the murder cases are interesting in their own right, but also reflect on the complicated relationships, misunderstandings and emotions of our main characters' lives. I really felt for Min when he was in the interrogation room. I wonder if that explains why he has no qualms working with criminals, because that gives him access to the scums that he wants to go all vigilante on?
It's significant that Hyeon's cracking in his personality came through because of his worrying about Min. Like pleading with Indebted Friend for help, then thanking him for his hard work.
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Miranda
July 29, 2015 at 8:45 PM
Honestly, I'm kind of wondering if Ghost Lady is also the woman in the pictures at Joon Ho's house, his family overseas. She's got such a weird affection for him even in her statement, and you're right that there's a bizarre gap between "thirteen people vanished" and her stating that she actually saw everyone dead.
She has to have some ongoing connection with Lee Joon Young, she was definitely waiting to deliver a message to Hyun.
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webby
July 29, 2015 at 9:54 PM
You know, with the information that shed light to the past, like Hyun's father's mistake in assessing/profiling Lee Joon Young (and Hyun), the Prosecutor's confession of fabricating evidence including in Lee Joon-Young's case, and the fact that he didn't kill the girl who tended to him... I am beginning to speculate that maybe, just maybe, Lee Joon Young did not commit those murders... himself...
Although he might have manipulated others to do it for him.
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Miranda
July 29, 2015 at 10:32 PM
Wait, the prosecutor fabricated evidence? I missed that - what happened?
I'm not sure who else LJY would've been in contact with in that house who he could've manipulated, other than the woman herself, so I do think he killed his family. Of course I'm also biased since if LJY isn't a killer then Min definitely IS, and I kind of want Min to get out of this somehow... Though I don't think he will.
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webby
July 30, 2015 at 6:03 AM
CMIIW.
I think it was in episode 6 (yup. checked with the recap) that Prosecutor Shin admitted to fabricating/planting evidence on the man who was convicted for having murdered the wife and daughter. He also alluded to similar approach on LJY's case, which Shin handled, with the help of Hyun's father, and posed the question “If your father did do it, was what he did good or evil?” (- episode 6 recap by rejoycie)
At the beginning of the series, the strongest impression I got from young LJY was that he was a master manipulator. He seemed to enjoy "twisting" people. He somehow planted doubts on Hyun's father about Hyun. He also manipulated Hyun into telling his secret (episode 12), "Father thinks I'm a monster, but the real monster is Min." LJY also influenced Chief Hyun to let him have visitor, using her insecurity of being a police woman in male-dominated police environment.
I have no doubt Min had committed murder. He could also have used others (like the purple flower case). Min, sadly, would likely meet a tragic end.
webby
July 30, 2015 at 6:35 AM
Would like to add how the Ghost Lady described young LJY. Everyone in the house feared him even as a child, suggesting some of them may have had contact. No mention of violent acts committed (like cruelty to animal, or a fit of rage) that might have scared the whole house. Yet she described him as able to see through people.
I assumed another family member or two had beaten LJY, such as the grandfather that was mentioned in the recording. I wouldn't be surprised if he had driven his biological mother mad and into suicide just by talking to her.
osmanthustea
July 30, 2015 at 8:15 AM
@webby replying to the whole thread here.
I would kinda root for that version too! After that part with Shin, I also wondered about LJY getting framed, and sorta 'basking' in people's fearful misunderstanding about him. The logical loophole though, is that either Min or LJY would have been the killers behind all those corpses that were disposed into the sea.
But I also just read this other theory (http://noonasoverforks.com/i-remember-you-episode-12-recap/) - scroll all the way to the poster's comments - that maybe Min is NOT a murderer yet, but being groomed by LJY and taught to dispose the bodies. That's reasonable, since this show has proven to be full of twists. But since we're back at the either-LJY-or-Min-has-to-have-killed, I'd rather pick Min as the innocent one. (I talk as though I have any sway over Writer-nim haha!) Min does seem a little bit more redeemable at this current age, like the way he seemed to light up in ep 10, when he realised that Hyeon was worried for his safety.
Could also be that LJY started off framed, but decided to jump full swing into killing after the injustice of being jailed.
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osmanthustea
July 30, 2015 at 8:32 AM
Oops I meant in episode 12!
riarallahssi
July 30, 2015 at 8:12 PM
One thing that bothers me too is that LJY was noted for "murders without bodies" but that old house was literally filled with bodies. Hence, how did he dispose of them? All those years incarcerated in the attic, he must have perfected such an elaborate plan to kill and dispose of them. I want to know how he did it, and I wonder of the ghost lady has got a hand on it. Some part of me is even wondering if the ghost lady looks anything like the woman that was projected to be his wife in his family home. But if she did, Hyun would have noticed, wouldn't he? For sure, though, Hyun knew the ghost lady was waiting for him. There's got to be more from that character than just being a passing informant.
Also, episode previews dictated that a "new character" will be introduced. She's got to be more significant...
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elric
July 29, 2015 at 10:27 PM
Could be possible. In ep 10, while Ji An shared her thoughts to Joon Ho about the girlfriend living normally if she didn't meet the pervert brother, he had this weird expression. At first I thought maybe it was about Min. But this kinda makes more sense.
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osmanthustea
July 30, 2015 at 8:07 AM
Ooh, it'll be interesting, if she's part of his fake family. I say fake, because I just don't think LJY can have a romantic connection with someone else, with a family and all...
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miilo
July 30, 2015 at 6:41 AM
@osmatnhus tea
“the kid has come to the door”. I wonder whom that ‘kid’ is.
That "kid" is probably Hyun, which would prove that LJY has contact with the Ghost Lady and she was all ready and set to tell Hyun what happened in that house.
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miilo
July 30, 2015 at 6:42 AM
Oops! Sorry, I meant osmanthus tea:)
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osmanthustea
July 30, 2015 at 8:18 AM
No problem! (=
*but* it seems strange to me for LJY to talk to Min and refer to Hyeon as 'that kid'. Instead of 'that man' or 'your brother'. I feel that when ambiguous references such as this is used in a conversation, both parties would share the same reference. Like if LJY calls someone a kid, then that person should also be a plausible 'kid' age to Min.
Am I confusing you instead? X=
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miilo
July 30, 2015 at 9:00 AM
I see the problem here, it does sound weird. Though, who else could it be? In the subbed version I watched, it was already translated as "He´s..." not "the kid", so I didn´t think of it much as I understand very little Korean. Seems kind of troublesome to bring in another character so late in the game, don´t you think? There have been some theories concerning Eun-bok flying around, though.
riarallahssi
July 30, 2015 at 8:21 PM
Perhaps, could it be referencing a previous conversation they had that we weren't shown? Though Min's confused look as he received that message does not help deductive reasonings at all.
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37 kolache
July 29, 2015 at 8:57 PM
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ian
July 29, 2015 at 10:31 PM
Yeah I like that even Dad and Foster mother who would have been typical good characters were given layers. It's consistent in showing us that not everyone is plain evil and plain good. We can be good, but have a monster in us. Or a monster, but have good in us.
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osmanthustea
July 30, 2015 at 8:21 AM
Yes! Normally the head patting would be met by either a A) stop-that-now bickering or B) sinking into a sorta one-dimensional sweetness that puts the female character at the receiving end... but Ji-an was instead reciprocating with her own concern for him.
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38 sungjong
July 29, 2015 at 9:04 PM
I think this is the best show airing right now along with OMG. Everything's perfect. The acting, the characters , pace of the show and even the ost . SIG and JN luuuuuuuufff the couple. But what is better is the sinister bromance . Bo gummie you're nailing it! JOON ho is ready to play the psychology professor in Twenty again...guess he doesn't need much training:P
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loveprevail
July 30, 2015 at 3:55 AM
Spot on. I Remember You and Oh My Ghost up to this point are in a class of their own. The others airing now are really pale in comparison. It's mind boggling that the ratings for this show are still low.
Love Jang Nara and the rest of the casts and I hope the drama will continue to wow us. *fingers crossed*
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39 niyati
July 29, 2015 at 9:52 PM
You know I'm getting really tired of dramas giving their villains sob stories. You suffered so you must make others suffer? WTF! I don't claim to understand our villain's suffering and I do in fact have sympathy for the child he was but none for the adult he became. If anything, he of all people should want not to inflict hurt because he knows what it feels like to be on the receiving end. Maybe that's an impossible standard to hold a person up to but would be a more reasonable reaction to his story. Regardless, his suffering does not make the suffering he has inflicted understandable and just once I'd like a drama to make that point. That coupled with the fact that we don't get many sympathy inducing storylines for the victims makes for a very dangerous narrative in a social construct.
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kolache
July 29, 2015 at 10:24 PM
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ian
July 29, 2015 at 10:25 PM
That's the complexity of human nature. We react to things differently. It's not giving villians a sob story. It's giving proper human emotions to characters. There is a story behind every "monster" out there, especially in real life. It does not excuse their crimes, but sheds light to how twisted society has become.
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Miranda
July 29, 2015 at 10:37 PM
In this drama's case, I do appreciate that they call it out explicitly in the morgue: the Three Psychoteers basically state that LJY unearthed his story to inspire feelings of sympathy, and Hyun flat-out says "yeah, no". He gets that there's a horrible backstory but doesn't believe it impacts future events, and says that right to the suspected LJY's face.
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niyati
July 30, 2015 at 11:16 AM
Oh yeah that as totally my favorite part...
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Cadash
July 30, 2015 at 3:59 AM
I'm waiting for someone to play the "Cool motive.Still murder." card.
Bad thing things happening in your life doesn't mean you get a free pass for murder. By the end of the drama I'm hoping Min is in prison but Hyun visits him every week.
Maybe he cuts a deal to help catch the bigger bad guy idk.
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riarallahssi
July 30, 2015 at 8:31 PM
"Bad thing things happening in your life doesn’t mean you get a free pass for murder. "
In the world we know, it sure doesn't. But then this drama poses the question back at us so eerily, "Why not?"
For our "villains", they've suffered abandonment of inhumane proportions. To them, if they themselves were subjected to all that, why should everyone else be exempted? As young LJY it, "Why isn't it ok to hurt other people?"
But to Hyun, the power of the choice remains untarnished. For Hyun, the value is in CHOOSING to be UNLIKE the ones that hurt you.
This is where the contrast of the brothers and the use of mirroring images, plus the two wolves, book, etc, etc.... It all ties up so brilliantly. Dark vs. Light.
Yet Hyun's character isn't all cookie-cutter good. He is filled with immense shades of greys (Christian Grey should be embarrassed). When he does realize that Min is his brother and that his brother his a killer, will he or will he not choose to protect his brother? Isn't protecting a killer a choice leaning towards the darker veil?
See how the drama throws that back at us so poignantly? It sets off a debate that will fire up the current moralities we know. It's brilliant. And the use of religion-- religion is truly one of the most judging standards out there, the argument is ON for this writer.
I am cannot be enough of a fan girl for this production.
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seares
July 30, 2015 at 4:27 AM
It is not giving sob story I recommend you to look into REAL psychopath murederers back story and you will see neither of them have happy family background you see this show focus on answers how could a human being turns into monster Rather than solving cases.
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ian
July 30, 2015 at 10:04 AM
Exactly. This reaction to finding out bad people also have a human side to them is exactly why bad people turn out bad. Because we treat them as monsters and that's the whole point of Hyun's story and how his father suspected and treated him.
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niyati
July 30, 2015 at 12:06 PM
Hi to all fellow commenters who posted replies to mine. I thought I'd respond in just one consolidated comment in response instead of addressing individual ones because I felt the thread will get too complicated otherwise.
Some of your responses have been in synch with mine, some have also pointed out how the show isn't trying to justify the psychopath's behaviour but showing how it happened. Some have pointed out the effects of specific kinds of influence during childhood years. All valid points that I'm not arguing against.
My point though is this...
The way I'm reading the situation Joon Ho has thus far made every effort to imply "no I'm not to blame for being a psycho, look at my upbringing, or I can't help my self I was born evil" Its a complete abdication of responsibility that I think is a dangerous narrative.
That first time he killed, it was his family, and that act I can understand (though not condone) as being carried out in a rage. But every subsequent act was all on him. Some might say that all he saw in his formative years was cruelty and that's what he replicated. But kindness, like cruelty, is learned behavior and I refuse to believe no-one has been kind to him since (he could not have gotten to where he has without it), and yet that is a lesson he refused to learn.
And I hate watching this trope play out in multiple dramas, even in some english ones, and there are better ways and if this drama pulls it off it will be my favourite drama ever. It's not impossible either Agents of Shield for eg tackled it very well in ward's story.
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JanuaryBlues
July 30, 2015 at 5:40 PM
LJY pointed out to Jian that 10 people put in the same situation would react differently to make his point about the psycho girlfriend of the man who abducted and killed women. That to me, show that he was aware of his own choices. So i am really interested to see how the writer/s would tie up the ending. Yes, that Ward storyline was refreshing. Good point.
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Chriser Kenny
July 31, 2015 at 2:14 AM
Most of the time when shows put in these crime dramas on tv especially the really heinous ones, it is usually a special case. They are not saying this is a commonly committed crimes so when you see one with a horrible past it is supposed be the "one in million" type cases. When dealing with serial killers, they tend to have some seriously messed up childhoods. I am sure when they first started out in life and going through the hell that they were dropped in, I am sure they tried not to hurt another person. Everyone have different levels of toleration. With these serial killers who have been tortured, they eventually reached their toleration level and lashed out. When lashing out, they found a release and probably realize they have a taste for killing.
Granted in this series, the villain did not get any assistance until he lost all hope and dropped deep into his psychosis. The lead male was given similar situation, but he did not choose the same path as the villain did. Instead, he is helping the team of cops with their day to day cases. The lead and female are the only ones looking for the villain while the rest of the team is obvious to the fact.
Sorry I rambled. I truly love the discussion for this show. There so many lovely debates and I am enjoying each and everyone of them.
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Chriser Kenny
July 31, 2015 at 2:16 AM
Okay I am not sure why it place my response here. I was responding to 39th post with Niyati
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40 casper ciyo
July 29, 2015 at 9:59 PM
BEST SHOW AIRED RITE NOW!!
WHAT A WASTE IF U DON'T WANT TO PAY ATTENTION TO THIS SHOW..
but i really appreciate if the recap could be post at least a day after the show aired. n i curious why were the rating in korea is low compared to "High society" . This drama is really good. i really like this drama plot.. the journey of watching this drama is like a "mind game" experience. Anyway.. thanx @dramallama for recapping this show.. (^^)
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Liza
July 29, 2015 at 11:24 PM
This drama is criminally underrated. I don't know about High Society as I'd never interested to see it. Talk about bad ratings, even the stupid 'The Time I've Loved You' got higher ratings percentage than this one *shakes head*
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41 KimNaNa
July 29, 2015 at 10:16 PM
I would agree. And being murdered or committing suicide do not keep the body or soul from heaven in Catholic teaching. It's not a sin to be murdered, and even though suicide is a sin, it does not keep one from heaven. Souls will go to Purgatory for cleansing; hence the drawing of Dante's vision on the wall.
That being said, entirely apart from their religion, the whole family was mentally unstable. Instead of helping their daughter heal, they shamed her, leading her to feel ashamed of her child and of herself. They had at least 13 servants, so they must have been relatively wealthy. This, more than anything, seems like it might have been the motivation for hiding the incident and the child--to not "disgrace" the family name. But that kind of behavior only perpetuates crimes against women. Example: Joon Young.
That reminds me, if Joon Young killed Hyun's mother, and he is killing his mother over and over (?), then what about Hyun's mother resembles his own?
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miilo
July 30, 2015 at 6:01 AM
I´m not sure if Joon Young killed Hyun´s mother. I´m still waiting on that one. As far as we know, the rob and murder LJY was charged with was based on fabricated evidence (there was a body this time) and Hyun´s dad was behind the fabrication according to the now dead Prosecutor. I´ve had a suspicion for a while that Hyun´s mom died in an accident and kids were at fault, which would explain why dad jumped the gun and locked Hyun up. Then again, even if there were signs that the "accident" might´ve been somewhat premeditated or helped along, it dosen´t explain why Dad would pull such a drastic move like using his wife´s death to frame LJY, so let´s hope he toyed with someone else´s corpse. I also don´t think the show would go that dark and crazy-ville, because then we just can´t have any sort of redemption either for Min or even Hyun.
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42 KimNaNa
July 29, 2015 at 10:19 PM
And something doesn't make sense: if Joon Young killed everyone in the household, why not the one lady? What was their relationship?
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ian
July 29, 2015 at 10:26 PM
Because he was the only one who was probably nice to her. He killed everyone except the one person who brought him food and didn't treat him like dirt.
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ian
July 29, 2015 at 10:32 PM
I'm sorry I meant
"Because she was the only one who was probably nice to him."
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43 miiko
July 29, 2015 at 11:05 PM
this show is criminally underrated, it makes me angry..
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44 LarryMimosa
July 29, 2015 at 11:54 PM
Yes, most definitely criminally underrated, with no pun intended, I suppose? :-)
If it's true that KBS was also targeting international audiences in airing Hello Monster/I Remember You, then perhaps it's great news for the future direction of Korean dramas. A move beyond repetitive storylines centering on chaebols/candies/melodrama/romance/interfering parents/makjang, ad nauseam, that perhaps appeals to an aging demographic of domestic viewership. And a move towards fresher, more intelligent scripts that are more relatable to an international audience.
Not that I haven't enjoyed dramas with such plots, I certainly have. But I've found myself sated with the sameness and have skipped more than a few in the last year or two after reading the descriptions.
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osmanthustea
July 30, 2015 at 8:26 AM
I *really* hope that KBS is going into this with their eyes wide open, and standing firm against domestic sentiment. I suppose they are, since the writing seems unhindered by the relatively lower domestic ratings.
If it's just pure luck that KBS is not interfering with the storyline due to relatively lower domestic ratings, then it's less likely that they'll continue giving such original plots a chance in the future...
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45 yumii
July 30, 2015 at 12:12 AM
Thank you for the recap.
How did Min and Hyun's father create such smart boys because it seems their father was a terrible psychologist.
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Chriser Kenny
July 31, 2015 at 2:19 AM
It is probably because of the mom. I am sure they will tap into that backstory soon since it was mention Hyun had his first memory loss after his mother's death.
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46 geese
July 30, 2015 at 12:22 AM
so here's what running in my mind about the ending...there's a big possibility that he would really kill his brother a.k.a Hyun by Min and maybe Hyun will die just to end up Lee Hyeon quest for making each brother kill each other...but then either Cha Ji An or a written diary will be read by Min in the end just to prove that they were being manipulated by a person their father trying to help and he will know the real story about his abandonment.
if Hyun die i think i can actually accept that kind of ending but it will sting like hell...hu hu hu hu..
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47 liz
July 30, 2015 at 12:37 AM
So, something is bothering me.
Like, people don't really change after turning adult, how they do not recognize Joon-ho ? Other big plot hole: His voice.
Like, if they keep hearing the recorded talking between David's father and Joon-ho, HOW they do not connect the dots: "Heard this voice somewhere" " Joon-ho's voice is the same/similar" like, hello? He was arrested when he was already big enough, and his voice would not change after years.
This aside, I really like the main girl, haha she is smart, does her cop role well, and isn't shy about showing her feelings.
The main guy is charming and smart too, and has chemistry with the main girl, what not love?
WHY. why. why this drama has such low ratings??
Other bad cop dramas got much higher ratings.
Another thing: DO fans are a bit annoying. Like the guy himself looks creepy, so he does well doing creepy roles. Give him comedy or romantic role and he won't be as good as people claim. He is decent but wish his fans would stop
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imzadi
July 30, 2015 at 12:44 AM
The murdered ppolice officer was trying to track through clinics, as it is likley that he had plastic surgery.
Regarding the voice, especially with young male adults the voice changes. I think it is even possible to alter voice with an operation. Crazy, but people do a lot of things, so why not change the voice with an operation. I don't think this qualifies as a plot hole.
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Chriser Kenny
July 31, 2015 at 2:25 AM
I like your answer. Also to expand more, I think the killer was like 17 or 18 when he was in jail with Hyun's father. He was not that grown yet. Most guys voices tend to get deep up until their mid 20's and their bodies do not finish mature until then too. If you ever seen a picture of a guy in his late teens and early 20's and compare it to a picture of them from mid 20s and up, you can tell maturity difference. The voice reacts in similar fashion.
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Cadash
July 30, 2015 at 4:04 AM
You can change your speaking voice, voice actors do it all the time.
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ian
July 30, 2015 at 10:09 AM
D.O looks creepy so of course he would do well with creepy roles? Did you watch IOIL and Cart because he wasn't creepy in those roles but he did great. IOIL he was a happy cheerful figment of SIG's imagination. Give credit where credit is due. You think all those comments about him are just his fans? He won't have received a positive response since his first acting project if that's the case. Why are you so bothered by his fans in the first place. You just sound like you're whining at this point.
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seares
July 30, 2015 at 12:33 PM
@liz First of all i get your point. Its true selection may based on how much someone's appearance fits the image of the role but it does not mean they can act spot on. When he gives audience goosebumps with just his gaze what do you think he was thinking? Most likely "I am not an idol who pleases their fans I am a psychokiller who scares people. Nothing can be done right? Since I am all alone in this world and nobody tries to understand me..." So that's why he can have such a vibe which is not possible for an idol.
@ian agreed. He does look totally adorable and pitiful at the same time in IOIL^^
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48 Giya
July 30, 2015 at 1:41 AM
My guess is that the "I <3 my keyboard" cop is that he is someone whose identity got stolen by Min. Remember when Hyun art dealer friend told him that nothing suspicious about Lawyer Jeong family background while the "I <3 my keyboard" cop came from an orphanage..maybe the cop found something about this exchange (supposedly done by Lee Joon Young) and gearing up for avenging his status (?)
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loveprevail
July 30, 2015 at 4:08 AM
There was a part from the early episodes before the Judge died when he had a few lawyers in his home including Min and he was reminiscing a story about a boy who was suspected of killing his friend in an orphanage? I wonder if this has anything to do with 'I <3 my computer guy'?
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49 lilly9
July 30, 2015 at 1:44 AM
I think that is probably the reason why he let her live.... Because she is the only one who treat him like a human being....
Tax for the recap..
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50 Dreamer
July 30, 2015 at 2:24 AM
THANKS for the recap...i am speechless... speechless from the day this drama start...
:D i am feeling proud on my selection of this drama, it was like 1 to 2 month before i made my mind for this drama...... it is worth watching... i have nothing to critic.. everything is just fine with the drama...
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