HeadsNo2,,i have different opinion with you about what is happening on the rooftop

before I start,I want to confirm this statement below:
-HeadsNo2,you can not believe how can the police conclude that Dr. Kim kill himself,,while the fact that the body is the Teacher's..
That is what you are thinking, right?

well,,my opinions :
-They do know, that the body is Teach's.
When they find him, he is (amazingly) still alive, and then rescue him, along with Mooyul, who loss his consciousness and lies beside the Teach's body.

-At that time,,the police is also looking for Dr. Kim
But they can't find him anywhere. So,finally, Police Department release a forge statement, saying that Dr. Kim has committed suicide,,because the police dont want the public thinks that they are incapable to catch a criminal.

So
That's why a policeman said they dont find any body in the courtyard, when Mooyul ask about it. Because they find Teach's Body on the rooftop. Then Mooyul realizes Dr.Kim is still around.

Let me summarize what I am thinking :
-The news said that Dr. Kim has committed suicide.(people will assume that his body found on the rooftop)
-In the other side:
^The police said that the teacher is safe
^But they dont find anybody in the courtyard
^So,there is only one body,,when it should be two. (Body from the courtyard that should be Teach's and body from the rooftop that should be Dr. Kim's)
^Becuse he hears that Teach is safe,,Mooyul realizes that the body they find on the rooftop is not Dr. Kim's but Teach's.
THATS WHY
-the kids realize Dr. Kim is still around and watching them
-plan to lure him to the rooftop
-and kill him

I was personally a little disappointed with the ending. Aside from the glaring hole that was the extremely incompetent police department, I personally felt that having those kids commit such a cold blooded murder was a far stretch. Sure they were emotionally disturbed by the whole incident, but I do not believe that less than eight days with a psyco-psychiatrist is enough to turn one into a cold and calculating monster. You will have to already be a psychopath (or a sociopath) on the verge of losing it, to be such cold murderers.

No matter what we see in movies, I am sure it is quite difficult to kill another human being and the worse only comes after the act of killing. Any human being with the ability to feel guilt will be haunted with the killing. I, for one, do not believe that the kids were past the point of feeling remorse and pain. If they had at least killed the doc in a shuffle or shot him in a moment of panic then it would have been more believable. If the show wanted to end it with "Monsters are made" end-line, then you could just have the kids calmly deny any involvement in the murder and then perhaps turn a little "monstrous," whatever that entailed. That would be easier to digest.

Whoa, thank you for the recap!
I enjoyed this drama so much!! I guess without you recapping it, I wouldn't have "found" this drama ^^;;

I think this genre of drama is really rare in korea...
Can someone maybe recommend dramas that go in the same direction? If there are any good ones...

Sooo..what you're saying is, outside of Chicago, handling something "The Chicago Way", like those kids did, is considered, like, morally wrong? Huh. In Chicago it's called pragmatic. ;-)

Woah. Woah, GREAT drama. Ji-hoon and Moo-Yul were my favorite characters for sure. The end left me a little flat mainly because the police were so stupid. I loved what the kids did to the Doc, but I must admit I kind of liked him. Sure, he was psycho but he certainly got results.

A couple thoughts I had about this drama (completely superficial): everyone has cool names and I can see why they wanted tall boys. Tall, dark, brooding boys matched well with the building and mountain, and had a gorgeous and stark contrast to the snowy environment. I can't say enough about the gorgeousness of the cinematography. Just a beautiful drama all around. I hope to see more like these in the future.

Great series! I've just finished it,it was both enjoyable and thoutfull,so, thank you sooo much headsno2 for your great recaps,you did a great job ;-)

thanks sooooo much for the recaps and for introducing this drama to me.

I will try to tell my friends of this drama so it will be better known.

2 and a half months later...*Squints* What was that? What did I just witness?

I don't think I've ever seen such inept, inconsequential police before. They were like comedic relief. And the idea of having families have therapy sessions in the open is so wrong on so many levels. One of the points of therapy is the safe space, the privacy. It's like a basic tenant. I'm pretty sure Mr. Serial Killer became one because he was such an epic failure professionally. Also, apparently all mothers are awful unless they're dead? Lol, ok.

I feel like this episode is a disconnect from the rest of the series narratively. It was like the writer had already planned this ending from the very beginning, but along the way the story turned into something else, but instead of following that something else to it's natural conclusion she stuck to the original ending. I don't know, does that make any sense?

The born or made monster question never really entertained me much, as I think it's not a valid question; I was way more interested in the characters presented and how the situation they were placed in made them react, which is why I'm so disappointed in the ending, because the way they were reacting seemed so foreign to who I saw them developing into. It's also why I was so bothered by the parents being there. Narratively it worked out for Yoon Soo, but for the rest I'm still scratching my head. I thought the point of the sessions was to see how the students reacted in this controlled environment, hence the emphasis on setting. Bringing the parents in made it seem as though it was about family dysfunction, when really their family issues simply informed the way they acted within the situation they were in, but that situation--i.e. a serial killer pitting them against one another--remained tantamount. And then we come to the doctor. I just really, really wanted him to kill one of the students. Like maybe Young Jae, because that would really bring the question of if one life is worth more than another to the fore. He was a coward and a fool and a traitor to the very end, and I would have liked to see how the others reacted to his murder. Hmm...I should probably rewatch the series, though. I marathoned it and maybe that's why this ending is so bewildering for me.

And I really wanted more Jae Kyung! Anyway, thanks for the recaps!

Finally finished all 8 episodes, and what a ride it was finishing the show. It was everything I would have loved in a good drama, visually stunning, solid writing & directing, great acting (never felt emotions so raw before). Of course it wasn't without its flaws, but overall, this woud definitely be listed under my top ten k-dramas to date

My take on the show:
- The buildup premise had been good, climaxed at Ep 7 going into Ep 8. However, the 2nd half of Ep 8 feels a tad of a letdown for me. It feels like the story had so much more potential to stretch, yet the writers chose to wrap it up abruptly due to the time constraint.
- Agreed on the technicalities that marred the watching experience. The level of ineptness displayed by the police borders on the incredulous. While I would agree that the doctor needed to stay alive to round up the show, given his amazing amount of luck in escaping death, I'm sure he would have found an escape route even if he's arrested.
- I wished the show had the opportunity for the doctor to conduct and end his "theraphy" on all the students rather than focus on a selected few. Other than Moo Yeul, Eun Sang and Yoon Soo, the stories of the rest of the characters have prety much been neglected. Even Kang Mo and Young Jae had only touched first base in his "theraphy" session with no closure given in addressing their issues.

My thoughts on the show:
- I would certainly never want to meet a serial killer who makes a good psychiatrist. In a form of a psychiatrist, he always feel the compulsion to treat people's psychological issues, yet as a serial killer, he can be so deadly as well.
- I am of the belief that to a certain degree, the doctor's experiment had won. Reason being, while he had not literally created monsters out of them yet, he had certainly awaken the inner demons in them that could potentially push them down that path.
- It would have been a bonus to witness the aftermath of the doctor's death to see how much of the inner demons unleashed in the students had impacted them greatly in their daily lives at school or at home.

For the best part of this drama was THE FILMING. How the camera moved from one person to the other in one shot made me feel like I was turning my head from side to side.

The filming is so different from other dramas I loved it.

THE OST was amazing too- haunting and perfect.

Without those two the drama would not have had nearly enough of a powerful effect.

I have a few questions if anyone could clear them up for me:

Q: Why DIDN'T he kill Chi/Ji Hoon? He's a remorseless serial killer so what stopped him?

Q: Why didn't the students HEAR the gunshot when the teacher was killed- every other gunshot reverberated around the whole school.

Q: Why did Yoon-Su decide to finally kill himself? So he lied about his kidnapping umm apologize?

I still don't understand why yoon-soo decided to kill himself.. can anyone explain?

thanks you!
I love this show and all the actors!!!!
Ji Hoon is my ultimate fave at the end, even though I was favoring Woo Bin (which isn't so bad)
This story was definitely different and complicated and intriguing. I hated the teacher, but his experiences somehow was for the good, he helped Moo yul and Eun Sung even though he did it sickly.
This does beg the question about creating monsters or breeding them. but i'm sure he had his answer from Jung Hye's character.
he made her a monster.

nahh, i dont think the Dr. won at the end. He probably said that just to satisfy himself.
Are monsters born or made? (me think - probably made)
well, everyone has their own evilside/monsters in themselves, it's just how u handle it, to gain control not to be bad, or losing control and be evil.
ex; Mooyul and Jaekyu has fight with their evilside, but still choose to be a good human-being,choose to save their friends,so being good or bad is definitely a choice!

I think the students killed the Dr. is NOT an awakening point of their monster, instead they DONT want to awaken their monsters, so that's why they make the Dr. go.
Judging from Yoonsu's situation, the Dr. might find any possible way and will continue haunted them after this. The Dr. has been MENTALLY and physically threaten them, and worst enough, provoke them to become a monsters, that's why they decide to vanish him. Even the most moral student-Mooyul make a first step,just because he cant take it anymore.
Mooyul has fight with his evilside once - about saving Jihoon, but this time he insist of killing the Dr.
That because there's different between Jihoon and the Dr.
Jihoon is his friend (well, sort of), even Mooyul is jealous of him but it's not a reason not to save him, but the Dr. is physco and evil,and after everything he's done, he deserve to die.

well, that's my opinion. this drama is sick and freakin awesome..!! definitely my top 5 favorite drama, or maybe my most favorite drama alongside with Ghost.

Late to the game but never too late to leave a comment. I was pretty much blown away by the depth that White Christmas presented (plus, indie music by Arcade Fire in a k-drama, that's a rarity) and the fluid and rich characterization that all the leads got. There's a lot more that I want to get off my chest but I'm too lazy to go into details so instead, I will just haphazardly list down what comes to mind first.

I have to say that I wasn't really intrigued by the Doc's question about monsters nature vs nurture debate because I have seen it dealt with over and over in several other mediums (the Monster manga is a great example) but I found the Doc's commitment to his experiment especially chilling, like a swan song of sorts. I personally felt that he would have found any justification to proclaim his victory at the end - the fact that there were people there for him to toy with was in itself his victory, by his own justifications. Not sure if that's clear.

In that sense, I was more intrigued by MY's statement at the beginning: Does one have to become a bigger monster, individually or collectively conforming, to defeat one? Also, the last scene of them walking together in the lone hallway reminded me of the conversation he had with Mireu when he was locked up - can't remember the details but something about surprises at the end of the light intersected with MR's snide humor.

All in all, I was bowled over by some of the actors' performances esp. Hong Jong-Hyeon's. His character was somewhat a beta-male wallflower but I always had the feeling that the was the unreadable wildcard (even more so than Mireu because it was predictable that he would do unpredictable things) and you never know what goes through his mind. The rest's assigned roles were more clearly defined; Mooyul the heroic do-good leader, Yoon-Soo, the lost soul, etc. He played the nuances very well when he was in the background and his emotional outbursts/monster at the seams scenes were subtle but yet so chilling.

Here are my favorites in terms of characters and performances (only listing the students and not Dr. Kim):

Characters (in order of preference):
1. Mi-Reu / Kim Woo Bin
The free spirit agent of chaos. Everyone loves a redhead clown who does whatever he wants.
2. Jae-kyu / Hong Jong-Hyeon
The quiet ones are always the unpredictable ones.
3. Ji-hoon / Sung Joon
I always have had a soft spot for the cool intellectual types who don't give a crapass about pleasing everyone. I.E., Naoki from ItaNaKiss. Where there's a situation, there's a solution and I like how he effectively saw MY as part of the solution.
4. Young-Jae / Kim Young-Kwang
It's nice to see a bully with a realistic backstory. I don't so often like the hot-headed jock type of character but his "hate-me-everyone-for-I-rather-that-than-be-unloved" speech was <3. Self-awareness, now that I like.
5. Moo-Yul / Baek Sung-Hyun
It's often the self-righteous, do gooder, insecure sort of characters that I especially dislike (because, very often they are clueless about the harm they cause, in their pursuit for justice) but I'd say, he did a fair job of including everyone's opinions and that he genuinely has a good heart.
6. Kang-Mo / Kwak Jung-Wook
I hate stalkers. But I liked the fact that he put his AV skills to good use in the last arc. I was worried that his disability would be put to contrived use in the narrative but I thought it was rather deftly handled with. I was all hell yeahs when his hearing aid malfunctioned at the end and that he went on to do the smart thing WITHOUT it.
7. Eun-Sung / Esom
As the only female character, I expected her to be... more interesting? I liked her insight towards the end about the Doc but otherwise, didn't really enjoy her character.
8. Yoon-Soo / Soo-Hyuk
I suspect ranking him last has much lesser to do with not liking his character than there's too little of him for me to feel an emotional connection with. They could have done more with him though, given his Death Poet Society-type suicide.

Admittedly, the acting is rather raw at times because these actors were greenhorns then but there were a couple of whom I thought did EXCEEDINGLY well despite their lack of experience. Strictly IMO and subjective.

Actors (in order of performances):
1. Jae-kyu / Hong Jong-Hyeon
He really did a lot more than he could with his character, and was the most consistent of the lot in terms of acting. His little tics and mannerisms... spot-on. Don't know much about him before, but am interested in checking out his career.
2. Young-Jae / Kim Young-Kwang
2. Mi-Reu / Kim Woo Bin
Mostly a tie between both of them but with an extra point going to KYK because I guess, he really had more material to work with. But the inexperienced (comparatively; it was his first series) KWB deserves a medal for playing the comedic relief without going over-the-top and his quiet moment with MY about JH's death was well-played.
3. Eun-Sung / Esom
3. Kang-Mo / Kwak Jung-Wook
Another tie. Esom is probably more consistent than JW but JW's character is sort of harder to play than Esom's.
4. Ji-hoon / Sung Joon
There's really little acting to be done in SJ's case TBH because his character is an unemotional robot. But that he did pretty well, so props for that.
5. Moo-Yul / Baek Sung-Hyun
Probably going to be an unpopular opinion but his acting was extremely stiff when it came to scenes of him playing the stoic and calm leader (and there were plenty of them) - and it wasn't even buyable as insecurity or some subtle character trait. His mouth freezes over or something like that which distracted me so much, until towards the end. And the f-ed up part is he had the meatiest role and so much room for characterization.
6. Yoon-Soo / Soo-Hyuk
Same reason so as to why his character was ranked last. There's too little for me to go on about his acting because mainly, he was just wasted in the background acting all spaced-out.

Oops, back for more.

The whole final confrontation with Teach made me think about his whole lion by the river/thirsty zebras analogy in his convo with KM, in which he talked about individual zebras sacrificing themselves for the sake of the general population. A natural order of things so as to speak, the weakest link saves the rest by well, doing what the weakest link have to do. When I first heard the analogy, I thought to myself, wouldn't it be better if the zebras/humans banded together to get rid of the lion?

I guess ES said the Doc lost because the weakest link, not KM but YS, decided to go against the grain by killing himself and not Doc (I recall Doc wondering where YS was when he was on the rooftop with the rest so I suppose that was his plan).

Instead, the zebras did the "right" thing by banding together and destroying the lion for good - if you can call it a right thing? If not, there will always come a time where everyone has to vilify themselves over and over by determining the weakest link/sacrificial lamb? Might as well be a "monster" (in Doc's words) once than for life, no?

Ah, the things we do to survive.

a year and more than a hundred comments later...

I've just finished watching this drama, shed more tears than any other dramas I've watched.

For the police, really tsk tsk, aside from what have been mentioned here, I also can't compute how the police bodies still in the car days later and no one looking for them. Since they've been not reporting for days and with a 'dangerous' serial murderer suspect that never arrive at police station. But we'll never get our story if the police are competent, so.. *sigh*

About Mu-Yeol gripping his hand when Eun-Seong father talking.. My take is ES always knows/thinks her father is a bad person, she told MY whatever bad things her father do, but she can stay positive back then because of her faith on her mother, and maybe she praises her mother in front of MY too. So when her mother image tainted in her eyes, she just lost it.

As for Yoon-Soo, I never think he has any will power to continue living from first place. All the students are in the edge of mental breakdown, but I really think YS is the worst, worse than ES. So, when he remembers that he is the corner-monster's monster (for lying) and that he has no real good memories with 'his mom', that's his end.

And for the ending, I don't know. I have inner conflict about it. I totally understand why they do that and glad the doctor really dead in front of their (and my) eyes.. But, I do have bitter 'aftertaste' about that too.

Overall, I enjoy this drama much. Love all the characters for their layers. And I am glad for not peeking the recaps a year ago and read it just now. Totally worth the experience!

why didnt the police question the 2 gaurds that were supposed to be looking out for kids at the end???? surely they wouldve thought they were acting suspicious

i liked this drama but there were so many flaws in it, i usually suck at guessing plot lines but the first half of this drama was too obvious, at the start some how even though they kept showing the Kang Mo to be guilty, they were playing it on too much making it evident that it wasnt him, also they showed Jae Kyu playing with his collar out of nervousness too often, just once wouldve been a subtle indication but twice just made his guilt glare in your face
also the fact that they kept showing what Kang Mi Rue was up to after he left for his trek made me realise he would probably return to the school as some sort of hero. When the doctor supposedly killed Choi Chi Hoon, just from the fact that they didnt show him lying dead on the floor covered in blood just made it clear that he was still alive.

The last episode was my favourite but as you pointed out in your comments, nothing made sense about how the police acted. this drama could definitely be put together better with a bit more thought, but over all i did enjoy this drama.

All the students are equally guilty of murder. The intention and the act were present, even in case of Ji-Hoon and Eun Sang. Even the right to private self defense would be denied to them. They did prove that they became monsters, they broke down. One cold, not remorseful act is sufficient. The retributive theory of justice brings anarchy.
Dr.Kim bought out all the insecurities of all the students, which is no reason to kill him. He did manage to prove that they are 'monster' , given the power, ability and a flimsy motive they would attack. ex- Jong Jae bashing Mong Wa head, Mong Wa's witch hunt, Jae Kyu attacking Jong Jae, pushing Dr.Kim with intent to kill, fabricating a story to cover their act(another offence).
Also I did not find Dr.Kim's psychological game to be that persuasive as compared to the lack of structure and coping mechanism of the students. The students had suppressed their feelings, hatred, envy, lack of control leading to the wakening of the 'monster'. All happy families are alike, each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way-Tolstoy. Moo-Yul, Jong Jae, Eun Sang and Yun Soon were already on the border line. Honestly their issues were not even that big. Everyone silently competes for the leadership position, many parents ignore their children and your mother having an affair is no reason to cut your hand (although the mother not confessing to her sins was horrible). Ji Hoon, Jae-Kyu and Merui did not have reason to kill. Moo-Yul, does not know himself yet. In the first episode he mentioned that the criminal knows his actions and consequence following it is justified and he should therefore be punished. Yet given a motive, Moo Yul would opt to kill.
I don't know why and how the students are responsible for Kim Soo's death. Should every girl you like welcome your advance? Shouldn't her friends take actions to stop her stalker? Should every winner remember the names of the ones he defeated? Should I be friends with one who makes reminds me of my liabilities? And why only these 7? All the other kids in the school seem to be equally responsible for showing disinterest in him. Kim Soo was mentally weak, could not handle pressure and intense competition and needed people to blame.

Open Thread #324 - January 3, 2014
#2.4 August January 3rd, 2014 at 7:19 AM

I just finished watching White Christmas over the holidays and enjoyed it immensely. Thanks to all the beanines that continuously recommend and spread the word about White Christmas in the Open Threads!

Open Thread #325 - January 10, 2014
#1.2.2 August January 10th, 2014 at 7:04 AM

I recently watched and enjoyed White Christmas like you did. I have a few questions for you or others that have seen White Christmas.

SPOILERS**

What conclusion did you reach regarding the character Yoon-Soo? In your opinion, what was the actual truth about Yoon-Soo and his “Mother” memory/issue?

- If Yoon-Soo was happiest in life when his mother would make him pancakes…
- Yoon-Soo’s current Mom tells him that she fired the maid/caretaker because as a child he thought the maid/caretaker was his mom which as a parent hurt the current Mom…

a) Did the parents swap/switch children?
b) Was Yoon-Soo actually the maid/caretaker’s son and therefore, he was adopted by his current parents?
c) Yoo-Soo said, “Because she hugged you instead of me. I must’ve wanted to be you.” Yoon –Soo admits that he lied. Did he lie about the maid/caretaker kidnapping him or that the maid/caretaker was his mother?
d) Was the child with the blue birthmark on his face (“The Monster in the Corner”) actually the child of his “parents” or the child of the maid/caretaker?
e) For Yoon-Soo, did his problems boil down to denial/avoidance of dealing with a false image of his parents and coming to terms with the illusion of the maid/caretaker as a mother figure for him?
f) Are we to take away that Yoon-Soo actually felt like he was “The Monster in the Corner” once the truth came to the forefront… (1) for lying about the maid/caretaker kidnapping him, (2) only having memories of the maid/caretaker as his mother, and (3) not really having any good memories with his mom?

Open Thread #325 - January 10, 2014
#1.2.2.1 Patch January 10th, 2014 at 7:55 AM

I think the maid did kidnap him but when the police came she ran to her own child ignoring Yoon Soo which created both his desire to be the other kid and his hatred of him. Because of his drug use, isolation growing and other factors in Yoon Soo’s mind the boy with the blue birthmark became the Monster In The Corner.

No I don’t think the kids were swapped the birthmark is too distinctive.

Open Thread #325 - January 10, 2014
#1.2.2.2 Saya January 11th, 2014 at 1:04 PM

Hi August! Sorry, busy weekend keeps me from coming back to OT (sigh).

WHITE CHRISTMAS SPOILERS

To be honest, I wasn’t 100% of what exactly happened with Yoon Su, but I wonder if that ambiguity is part of it. I read every single comment of the last ep recap trying to get a handle on it, but all everyone else had was speculation as well – that perhaps he wasn’t kidnapped at all, but went along to that ahjumma’s house missing her, and afterwards, when he was found by the police, little and frightened, he had lied.

I would say the parents didn’t switch kids, there’s no evidence of that, but at one point, Yoon Su must have thought his nanny was his mother. The birthmarked child was his nanny’s real son.

I also can’t say for sure what Yoon Su’s ‘monster’ was for or about. I think it’s the realisation that he’d built his subsequent life on the lies he’d told as a child — and which he came to believe as real. Which you...

This is definitely the most outstanding K-Drama i've ever watch. I've already watched it for 3 times in arow.. It so sad that tis dramaonly have 8 episodes :(
Though that it will have second season *which is just in my dream.. -.-*
The casts were awesomee.. *cough* *PLAYBOYZ* *cough* and the storyline is sooo addicting and made me wanna quickly watching for the next ep. But in this last episode, i have to admit that there's some missing link, like how did the doctor survived, and what really happened in the kids mind after all of this *kills the doctor forsho
Still.. i love this drama soo much.. ^^

Wow... first, thank you so much for making this recaps.. and also you add some comment below..
I know it's very late to know about this drama, it was on 2011 And I watched it on 2014. And I just know that bunch of hot model-actor friend starts gather around in this drama.wow.. the cast just awesome..
I watched it through broadcast on kbs world this 2 days, maybe because it will christmast day soon.
I'm very curious to know wht will happen on the next episode, so I tried to lookfor some sinopsis, and bump on yours. It really help me. Because I still cannot fink link to download the drama since it was a bit old. It must be on kbs world tv channel on youtube, but i doubt it if still exist.

There's a lot of twist and make me to think hard. Its very psycological. Everyone has their own problem, and own way to let it slip or solve it or being explode become a monster , its rather a choice.(sorry my bad english)..
Actually I interested in lee soo hyuk since he was a model who is look so cold and chic. I want to know his act. And in here he also still look like that,. But poor him at the end, he choose to end his life by suicide..T.T..
i like the cast, the location nd all. Love it..
It will become one of my favorite drama.
thanks again :)

Thank you you so much for writing this. I was really having a hard time dealing with the ending ...but I'm fine now Thank you soooooooooo muuuuuuuuch <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

i rewatch this drama and realize that the narrator voice in the opening episode 1 &2 is Jae Kyu, not Mo Yoel. and he narrate the story about kim jin soo in final ep 2 which means that he knew about kim jin soo. so that u'd knew that jae kyu who sent the letter.
in ep 3 where eun sung were sitting at the park and mo yeol saw her, why she didnt recognize the pile in front of her that later at night she found out that the teacher's body?

Love this drama!

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This show was by far the one of the best I have seen in relation to crime and thriller. I watched this show long time ago, I recently came back to watch some of the episodes. Before I would have argued that monsters can be made or born. But I think people are all born evil. One might call it instinct for survival. Whether you are an atheist or God believing person, you know people have fight or flight system. People in the old times used to survive whether it is attacks from other species or providing food for their families by killing. As time went on the need for hunting has become small. Most of us don't need to do it or live without the fear of being harmed. So these instinctual ideas are suppressed. But for people who are monsters this has resurfaced and they usually have situations that lead them into this types of situations. People who are monsters have both the nature and nurture components of a killer. This is why not ever mentally ill person or people with bad family become a murder. Bad situations or the nurture aspect are not always obvious, it can be extend from bad family situation all the way to fascinations with guns. This means given the situation anyone can become a monster. The likelihood or the extent depends on how developed our nurture and nature aspect to being a master is. On the grand scheme of things he has won. He has made them awaken their killer instincts. But I wouldn't call them monster as he has wanted them to be. For example, in society we don't call people who kill their bosses who has made them suffer terribly monsters. We usually reserve it for people who kill people unrelated to them, children/ people with little cause of harm to them or/and people who kill in a gruesome way. So in that sense I don't see them as monsters.