@Kender
Are they really on d-addicts? I've checked the subtitle index for Sandglass, and couldn't find them...is it under another name? I'm going to go check d-addicts again....seriously I've been wanting to see this ever since I started getting into kdramas....And I was wondering why would that series NOT be subbed...

I've been a long time lurker on this blog and wanted you to know that I truly enjoy it. As much as I love a good k-pop/k-drama scoop, for the most part it is difficult to find thoughtful and grown-up discourse, so thank you for providing that.

I'm just curious to know what draws us all to k-dramas/k-pop. I was reflecting on it personally, since language is a barrier for me (i'd just be blank without subs) and my cultural background is definitely not Korean. I know for sureone draw is the finite aspect of k-dramas. I am just not capable of staying attached to a show for years on end (ER, Star Trek, etc.). I'm still trying to figure out what the rest of the attraction really is for me, but if anyone else has been able to comprehend their own attraction I hope you respond and share. Javabeans I hope you see this and share too :o)

@51 Taohua - Haha, I know how you feel. I found it by chance last week, and I just about died of joy. Haven't watched it yet, though.. I'm saving it for this summer, so I can watch both it and Feelings at the same time and have an old-school Lee Jung-jae overdose. XD

Here's the direct link:
http://www.d-addicts.com/forum/viewtopic_6904.htm
You won't find it in the torrents, though, because it's a licensed drama, so I think soompi is your only hope for raws. (I think the subs are DVD rips, too.)

@ 52 alasam - Haha.. I also love the production quality. Kdramas are like soap operas, only with (usually) better writing, acting, and directing, as well as larger production budgets. The finite aspect is definitely a large part of it for me, too. As much as I love Star Trek (I've been a Trekkie since I was 6, although I'm not hardcore about it), I find American TV shows too episodic. With Kdramas, I know for a fact that things are heading in a certain direction, that they'll definitely get wherever they're going, and that I won't have to waste multiple years of my life on finding out where that destination is.

Then again, it might just be the pretty Asian men. They get me the way that Caucasian guys never do, for reasons that I've never figured out. :3

@Kender
I take that back--you're right...the subtitles are on d-addicts---It was under "The Sandglass" and I kept looking under "Sandglass". Also I think I was always thrown off, because there were never any torrents for it on d-addicts. But soompi has them? Going to go check that out now...and seriously THANK YOU for the info :)

@54 Taohua - LOL. That's why I've started just using Ctrl+F to hunt down subtitles there. And if I can't find them that way, I start thinking of every possible alternative title. Oh, D-addicts..

Is anyone watching Shiroi Haru (the Jdrama)? I haven't started it yet, but it looks really cute..

@samsooki
" As for me, I feel like I’ve lived through Eun Jae’s life, and so, I am now stronger and wiser now because of it."
It may sounds over the top to others, but I totally see your point. I mean I know it's a drama and all, but I seriously think there is some kind of teaching there. Watching the way Eunjae took it all at one point of her life, being abused and belittled, and the way she is driven to revenge and does a complete personality makeover, in the way she has to become stronger to fight back... I feel like if one day I come across a Gyobin or an Ae-Ri , I would slapped them before they have time to open their mouth lol.Now jokes aside, I believe there is still something to learn from a drama, and Temptation of wife is really interesting if you want to see how twisted the human psyche can be.

"So if you haven’t guessed, Temptation of Wife is a revenge drama. Every single episode, nuclear bombs are thrown around, and every episode, just awful things happen and you just want to step in there and start slapping everybody."
That's what's driving me mad. You can never rest watching this, there always is a cliffhanger of doom at the end of the episode, or something extrordinary happening. You're watching this endless war where all kind of hits are fair game and still, you can't get enough of it. I have no explanation as why watching so much suffering and bitterness on screen can be so captivating, but maybe it feels like Eunjae not only fights for her and and her family's sake, but also for the viewers'. I may be wrong, but there is really something cathartic about this series. I'm becoming addicted to the revenge genre, but I doubt I'll watch something as intense as this one.

"But JB is apparently immune or has the willpower to say “no, I will not go there” I can’t imagine the amount of willpower it would take for a person to watch Temptation of Wife, and then NOT go nuts about it…."
LOL I so agree. I think it's impossible^^ I've read some viewers comments about how the drama was so over the top and unrealistic, but still, they were like addicts^^ I really wish I could have some serious discussions with fellow viewers about it, there is so much to say about it^^

@52, alasam -

"I’m still trying to figure out what the rest of the attraction really is for me, but if anyone else has been able to comprehend their own attraction I hope you respond and share."

***

I wonder about this too. Is it because I'm trying to learn Korean and figure out who I am as an identity? Is it because the actors and actresses are so cute and pretty and/or handsome and interesting and cool? And as I reflect, I think that as much as there are elements of language and identity and attractiveness, there is a deeper element to it for me.

I don't know if this is 100% right, but I think that there is a fantasy element involved in these things. The fantasy element is almost always the same - "this is the world as brought to you by how we see the world." That viewpoint generally pushes LOVE as an end-all-be-all objective, pushes RESPECT for a definitive order of things (i.e., age hierarchy, family hierarchy, workplace hierarchy), OPTIMISM for the future, FIDELITY in relationships, importance of FAMILY, and so on. I won't get into each of these, but I do want to talk about the element of respect for the definitive order of things, because it is assumed in every drama, and because I think this is a key to why I feel at home with k-dramas.

And so this fantasy can be a comforting place to be in, because you will always know your place in the world. EVERYbody fits in somewhere, whether you are on the bottom (bow to everybody), in the middle (bow to some, bop others on the head), or at the top (bop everybody on the head). And whether you are on the top or bottom, there are cute poor orphans or beautiful rich people to grab your wrists and tell you to only listen to them and only look at them. "Okay! Jeez, I won't listen to anyone else, okay? can you let go of my wrist now?"

I think one of the biggest challenges in today's post-modern society is that order and structure are dependent on point of view. What one person believes to be the natural order of things, another person may not. It makes for confusion and stress, because where you fit in, in other people's perspective, is dependent not only on how you feel, but on how those other people feel. And so each of us can feel alienated and alone, we are isolated because we are a world populated only by one person - ourself.

K-dramas, on the other hand, push a brand of culture and a fantasy world where cute people (both male and female) reside and where they engage in all the real world problems = all the heartache and love and fighting and greed and hate and jealousy and everything else exist, but with the K-Drama style of order comes community. We KNOW where we would fit in, in this fantasy world, and we can see ourselves being part of that community. We would know how we would be received, and what we could do if we were part of this fantasy world. K-dramas invite people in, and each of us has a place at the table, whether as a rich or poor person, old or young, male or female.

I think that that's ultimately why I am so into k-dramas. It is a comforting place for me to go, to chill and watch and feel like I am a part of a world that I think I could fit into and I know where my place would be, stylin' with my binnie hair and clothes.

Java Beans, someone may have asked this before, but do you make a profit from this site? I'm just asking because you update SO often (and great updates, I might add) and can't imagine being this faithful to a blog that you do for free.

Happy Friday, all! And great song.

samsooki,

thanks for the heads up on "treeless mountain". looks like a solid movie. i'm a big fan of korean indy flicks.

it appears the director also made another movie called "in between days." have you seen it? thoughts? i'm gonna have to check that one out as well.

@52

i totally feel you...i am by no means Korean and language is a huge barrier for me but my attraction to kdramas, kpop, or just korean culture is how different and yet similar it is to my own
in regards to kdramas i just like how short of an investment im making...i really cant stand to stick with a program for years and i find kdramas to be sooo much more intertaining then say the novelas that my family watches...but i guess the attraction is different for everyone, this is just why i like them

and as for korean culture...i just find it amazing whenever i see similarities with my mexican culture...lots of people can say that we are (mexian and koreans) completely different but i beg to differ, theres so much we have in common that i just find it interesting

@ 52 alasam.

''I know for sureone draw is the finite aspect of k-dramas. I am just not capable of staying attached to a show for years on end (ER, Star Trek, etc.). ''

Hehe, if I may just exclude Star Trek, Babylon 5 and Farscape. Bright spots in households addicted to (brain numbing, boring soaps) that have been going for NOT years, BUT decades. Enter a channel with a subbed Akira Kurosawa film season, that covered almost all his movies,. That started the ball rolling, and the addiction to asian movies, TV dramas and the music. The net took over, exit the TV to the skip.
Bonus as Kender put it - ''might just be the pretty Asian men. They get me the way that Caucasian guys never do, for reasons that I’ve never figured out. ''

@57 Samsooki

I see where you are going with the idea of buying into a fantaasy and in paricular a world with problems similar to our own daily struggles, but unique in its greater social structure of order and deep sense of community committed to maintaining this order. Of course the rebel in me gets a real kick out of the odd character that tries to crack seams in this order, but I don't especially want to see it broken.

In particular the drama "What Happened in Bali" comes to mind. It didn't have the typical cookie cutter K-drama format, but it didn't completely break away from this sense of structure, rather it almost seems to compel you to follow the established order. You're enraptured by the rash playboy who is desperately trying to grasp his first real love who is socially unsuitable. In many ways he's rebellious, but we still see him cower throughout the movie at the idea of leaving the comforts of the social order he has grown up in. Then there is the determined young business man who refuses to go back to his humble begins and is determined to climb out of his former social status by any means necessary, yet he yearns to share his uphill struggle with someone else who oddly enough comes from the same undesirable background. Finally there's our damsel torn between two lovers, both of which are successful in their own right and so she stands to gain in terms of social status no matter who she ends up with. But unlike the cookie cutter k-drama the wealthy playboy does not bring promises of love and marriage at first which levels the playing field for our self-made man who does offer love and a common background in exchange for a lower status on the totem pole. She desperately and deservedly wants out of her current situation, yet a part of her is ever appalled by how far she truly will go to get there. In the end you are as torn as she is and the only satisfactory end to such a disruption in the established social order is for everyone to die. It's grand to think about the break in the order, but with so many who stand to get hurt by such a large scale shift in the equation the only satisfying conclusion is a complete endgame scene that shows us no good can come from too much change.

I hope some of that made sense.

I also think that I am drawn to the demureness and modesty that can still be found in many k-dramas. It is appealing to see adults still get flustered over holding hands and having a first kiss. I tend to avoid shows that are skinfests because more often than not you lose out on content. In American media be it movies, soaps, primetime dramas/comedies sex is too often the focus and there is no need to develop a character or a plot so long as there are the required steamy sex scenes interspersed with witty oneliners or mournful dissatisfied glances. Wholesomeness has become a dirty word in America and we have made the depraved the norm. I'm not soap-boxing, honestly! I just miss the days when shows stimulated more than my hormones. I have a mind that yearns for more and it's found a buffet of this ellusive quality in Korean productions. That doesn't mean that every production has been great, but I do enjoy the ideal that Korean dramas push. I know that they are just as far fetched as a world of bed hopping 20-somethings with no STDs to speak of, but then I've always been a sucker for sweet things more than for spicy.

Just finished the first six episodes of City Hall - really LOVE it! The first two episodes do have some dull spots but if the future episodes do not falter, it is shaping up to be the best rom-com for me so far this year.

When it is funny, it is seriously laughing out loud funny. When it gets to the poignant point, it is moving. The plot synopsis does not do justice to the story about why and what lead Kim Sun Ah to the road of becoming a Mayor - I look forward to see her ride to the top.

Last but not least, as someone mentioned above, the chemistry between Cha Seung-won and Kim Sun-ah is mesmerizing.

JB - Based on my reading your blog for over two years now, I am quite sure you would like this one. (Just forget the Lovers series and have a go on this simply for the two leads if not other things.)

@ Samsooki
You didn't catch Treeless Mountain at the Tribeca Film Festival?
http://movies.nytimes.com/2009/04/22/movies/22tree.html?ref=movies

@ Tendoclan
I haven't watched this week's eps yet, but it looks like they'll never have Ji Ae really mature and reflect on her own life. What really bothered me was when they made Director Kim's wife into a weak idiot when she exposed SH/DS's relationship. Sheesh.

@18 javabeans:

Yeah I get what you mean. Blogging can be fun, but when it becomes a chore, that's when it gets tough. I do hope you continue enjoying what you do, that's most important. The Internet opens up a whole new world, but it's also something people can hide behind and attack. I did notice the increase in unpleasant comments here and was glad to see you stepped in firmly to put a stop to it. I think things have improved since.

Anyhow, have a great weekend!

@64, hjkomo -

You are killing me! I didn't know it was playing in NY.

Did you see it already?

@ Samsooki
Did you not read my post about it in a previous Open Thread????
It's not playing anywhere near me, so I was even tempted to go to NY (since I haven't been in a long while)....Aigoo, cham na...namjadeul, wae geu rae ni?
Lol.

@nycgrl, did you check it out?

@ Nom Kitteh & Sere

Nice nice nice! LOL. Atashinchi no Danshi is definitely a "crack" drama in which we check in and leave our brains at the door. But, it's very cute. Do you want me to give you a little little spoiler which will just make you excited or should I just say nothing [about episode 5 that is]?

Oh my oh my, how Kaname Jun & Mukai Osamu make this drama so wonderful. LOL. My two favorite men in this drama.

On a side note, I'm watching 9 End 2 Outs recently because lots of people randomly suggested it to me, and I'm really really enjoying it. And I like how ordinary it is, really. I mean, it's realistic. Ish. If you know what I mean. But I love love love Lee Jungjin's character as an awesome best guy friend. Makes me want to have a great best guy friend, who is manly yet sensitive. [And once more, point & example, Korean dramas give me unrealistic expectations about life.]

So yesterday I was talking to my friend about why best guy friends like that don't exist. It's because, for some reason, it's difficult to find guys that are that manly that aren't too self-absorbed in their manliness that it comes off as arrogant, or too sensitive that it comes off as a little feminine - the latter falls into the category of most of my guy friends, who are more feminine, and thus I have an easier way of communicating with them.

Which leads to my question. I had trouble describing what "manliness" is to my friends, because they were like, oh, well if you're looking for a balance between sensitivity and manliness, how would you define manliness? How would you define manliness?

Can you spot manliness by a quick first impression? I feel like a lot of times I can go, "Oh, that person's manly while this person isn't" without even knowing them. Other times, someone who's "manly" turns out to be nothing more than a hot air balloon. And other times, manliness is hidden in actions.

So what then, is manliness? Is it pure masculinity, characterized by testosterone and built muscles [which I must confess I am not particularly fond of, because my type is usually the toned, model look, which can sometimes be a little on the skinny side]? Or is it a personality trait?

alasam,

i'm not nearly as eloquent as samsooki, so i will just say that i'm into korean pop culture primarily because of identity issues. growing up, i felt like an outsider amonst my peers. i was ashamed of my korean heritage.

i still remember the first time i listened to "candy" by HOT, my very first intro to kpop. i was blown away. the only korean music i knew at that point was the stodgy stuff my parents enjoyed. it was at this point, somewhere towards the middle of my college years, that i embraced all things korean, and i began to watch kdramas and listen to kpop, and i devoured all the current news relating to korea.

i think there are several reasons why someone who doesn't have a korean background would enjoy kdramas, which include curiosity of another culture and attractive actors/actresses. and let's not forget the story itself. most (not all) kdramas revolve around some disadvantaged person who defeats the odds and finds love, money, fame etc. no matter the culture, i think we can all identify with the underdog.

@kb,

Dude, we practically have the same experiences. And I think we share many similar characteristics, perhaps growing up in the same way.... its like a case study of nature vs. nuture... LOL.

***

I'm not sure how many ppl would agree, but there was a relatively obscure scene from My Name Is Kim Sam Soon, with Kim Sunah (as Samsoon) and Lee Yoon Mi (as Chae-Ri). For those who don't recall, Chae-Ri is Samsoon's ex-boyfriend's current girlfriend.

Chae-Ri is younger and "prettier" than Samsoon, and Chae-Ri comes from a privileged rich family (whereas Samsoon does not). Yet Samsoon's ex-bf seems to be constantly looking to hold onto Samsoon, much to Chae-Ri's chagrin. AND, Samsoon appears to be going out with Hyun Bin's character Hyun Jin Heon (Heon-nie!! LOL), a person that Chae-Ri has had her eyes on for such a long time. This brings out Chae-Ri's inherent cattiness (meow! rawr!), as Samsoon seems to have both guys that Chae-Ri likes.

The scene is between Chae-Ri and Samsoon, after they had a fight, and they are sitting together at a spa with those funny towels on their heads, and Samsoon is trying to patiently impart a lesson to the immature Chae-Ri. Chae-Ri appears to get the lesson, even though she retains enough of her immaturity and cattiness to be adorable (and / or annoying).

Samsoon gently bops her on the head after Chae-Ri talks back slightly, and then Chae-Ri playfully continues to resist being bopped on the head, which causes Samsoon to bop her on the head once or twice more. And in this scene, we see so much of what is attractive to me, at least:

1. Continuity. Samsoon, as an older woman, teaches a lesson on life to the younger woman. This continuity is reassuring, because it says that the culture and the knowledge is survivable from age to age.

2. Hierarchy. Age before beauty (and riches!). Samsoon is able to assert her dominance not only as the teacher, but also as the elder, and so she asserts this by gently bopping the younger on the head. Chae-Ri resists this by threatening to bop Samsoon on the head, and so that earns Chae-Ri another gentle bop on the head by Samsoon. The fact that Chae-Ri's social and economic class, along with her apparent physical beauty, is on a higher level than Samsoon, makes no difference in this one-on-one relationship.

3. Community. Even though Samsoon really is from a different class than Chae-Ri, and even though they are rivals for the same two men, Samsoon and Chae-Ri are able to resolve their issues in large part because Samsoon takes charge as the elder and takes responsibility for Chae-Ri, trying to teach her and show her that Samsoon isn't Chae-Ri's enemy. And Chae-Ri's response to this is to boldly ask Samsoon to pay for all the snacks (as the elder), which of course earns Chae-Ri another gentle bop on the head, and then to pay for all the drinks (which earns Chae-Ri a third bop).

***

Even though this is between two women, I really get a kick out of this scene because it has a lot of elements that I would wish for in my life, and even people who would otherwise be at each others' throats are able to get together in large part because the structure / framework of inter-personal relationships is already established.

Samsoon has to take the first step, and she does, and Chae-Ri then submits to the relationship dynamic. It allows Samsoon to gain respect from Chae-Ri, and it allows Chae-Ri to accept wisdom from Samsoon.

Anyway, that's a big part of why I liked MNIKSS, and it didn't have anything to do with Hyun Bin.

=)

I really like reading your posts Samsooki..very insightful. Has anyone mentioned to you before that the same writer for MNIKSS also wrote, What's up Fox? You might wanna check it out, but I still think MNIKSS is her best work...

@azzuri, hi there....me bad, i should start watching Brilliant Legacy because of Bae Soo-bin..i bet he's a lot hotter in BL than in POTW..^^

According to my information "Treeless Mountain" was not actually at the film festival but rather showed briefly in NYC around the same time. As far as I know, it is no longer showing anywhere in NYC (more's the pity). When it was here for the DC Korean Film Festival, it was on screen at the AFI in Silver Spring (MD). Sadly, I missed it. :(

Gah, sorry, got distracted by Supernatural's finale (BTW, any of you guys watch it?).

@68 A.

Post away the spoiler if it's not a MAJOR twist. ;)

For some reason, I think Fuu has been playing ini the shadows against (for?) Chisato...as per Shinzo's instructions? Hmm. Also? I irrationally casted him as Chisato's love interest fromo ep 1. Am I the only one? And it's so weird cos we practically didn't see him for 4 eps. Ah well.

Anyway, yes, the drama totally goes into the crack genre, but it's less cracktastic than, say, Mei-chan no Shitsuji. Or so I hope. I liked Mei-chan, but I was hoping for a little more umph.

Re: manlyness
This is tough. My idea of manlyness is sort of fluid in that what I find manly today may not what I think is manly tomorrow, but as a general rule of thumb I'd say anyone who makes me feel safe/protected...and I'm not even talking about the looks. In my case it's more of a personality trait. Yeah, definately.

@Samsooki
Huh. I have to go back and rewatch that scene because I didn't even register. which means it didn't make much of an impact. Which means...well, I don't know exactly what THAT means but I think it's significan for some reason. What ep was that again?

You know the only scenes with Chae-Ri that I recall are 4 exactly: 1)when Jin-heon tells Chae-Ri and Hyun-woo that Sam Soon is his gf (then again, that's more of a Ji-heon vs Hyun.woo scene), 2)when Chae-Ri is outraged and talks back to Sam soon outside the restaurant, 3)the CATFIGHT (ahahaha, unforgettable, that one), 4)Chae-Ri sticking to Ji-heon and calling him oppa whilst her fiancé is in the other room. That's it. The thing is, I didn't really give Chae-Ri much thought, consideration or credit: she's superficial and silly and I never thought she'd change no matter what Sam Soon or others may tell her. And did she change? Hmm. I'm still not sure. I should rewatch the scene you mention and ponder some more. Your post was very insighful. Thanks for sharing!

@ alasam

I've not entered into any discussions before but this site has interested me for a long time. Your question about why are we hooked by the kdramas caught my attention enough for me to write.

I've been interested in kdramas for about 2 yrs. What got me hooked was the innocence of the dramas. By that I mean, take the love that is displayed between characters. It is done in a subtle way. Not like the down right offensive, porno, in your face way that the US series show. I don't appreciate that type of display of affection that has gotten so blatant in the US series. Each year, it just gets worse. Also I like the old fashion way of dating that is exhibited in kdrama. I would not be embarassed to watch many of the kramas with any age group. I was on vacation with some family members and I took along "Full House". You know, I could watch it with the youngsters. I was surprised that I didn't have to censor it. The girls loved it.

What has kept me interested in kdramas is the fact that they have, on the whole, good story lines. The jdramas are hit and miss because they can be so wacky. If you check out the story line of kdramas, you get an idea if you might like it and generally they are what you expect.

Okay! I speed-watched episode 4 during a meeting (note to meeting: if you want me to pay attention then be more interesting) and the gist of it is that the kid went missing (ran away?) and in the process of being found brings (tries to bring?) mom and dad (Sho) together. Fuu is in town (YAY!) and there is a treasure in the house (I will bet now that the treasure is nothing tangible and is instead the bond that will eventually form between the "family" members -- i think that because I am a lover of sap, and more sappy the sap, the more I love). So if I got the gist, then I will move onto Ep 5 -- well, as soon as I get my fried brain a bit unfried (the fact that I couldn't quite absorb Ep 4 says a lot about the state of my brain -- tis scrambled AND over easy!).

I thought Ep. 4 was a bit weak because it felt like a eat-your-vegetables kind of episode, and we all know that vegetables are evil and if they had wanted to be eaten, they would have made themselves taste like satay chicken or barbecued ribs instead of like cardboard or socks.

Yohoo for Friday afternoon! If I can get a dreaded visit to gym out of the way, Ep 5, here I come, baby!

----
CEREAL?
I can't remember who asked this, but my favorite cereal is Fruit Loops (don't mess with my Fruit Loops). Someone recently said that Fruit Loops is basically sugar and high fructose corn syrup, and I was like, "Yeah, what's wrong with that?"

----
Manliness?
Emotionally: Confident! Not arrogant, but confident.

Physically: Doesn't matter as long as the emotional aspect is there.

---
Why someone not of Korean background would enjoy K-dramas?
K-dramas deal with universal themes of love, triumph of the spirit, more love, family dynamics, etc., all through excellent production, writing, and execution.
K-dramas really know well how to capture the beautiful tensions of romance -- the attraction, the tension, the (heart)aches, the wanting, the longing, and the sweet, sweet getting. Also, K-dramas don't seem very nationalistic (at all) so they don't seem so much KOREAN as they do just plain, good entertainment. Like Japanese anime (which rarely signals Japaneseness), Korean entertainment seems to be similarly devoid of national markers, and as a result can (and do) have more universal appeal. Also, the family friendly focus (no sex, no heavy kissing, etc.) -- big plus.